Guild Wars 2

since you mentioned the spvp I have been working on a spvp title i’ll be honest and say that it doesn’t tend to take me more then 3/4 games in tournies on avg to get that daily done.

what your talking about with conditions and warriors is a major issue that arose because of other issues. namely the number of massive condition aoe there is. a warrior is worthless with out some cleanse. because of this saying a warrior should go back to have 1 cleanse is out right ubsurd. the issue is a simple fix which you seem to miss and I’ve mentioned it repeatedly put a icd on ire.

the issue is not the warrior class which so many people bend out of shape about it’s the ability to abuse one trait. it’s essientally perm stealth for a warrior which has draw backs. although I’ve yet to see a single one really use hambow on me I understand why it would be a frustrating build to go against I also understand how it would be a rather poor build by war standards.

to put it simply the only two instances hambow could be over effective is in zergs (not roaming wvw just zergs)

or point assault or defense. it lacks mobility but when you are in those spots having a char what will take ages to kill might as well not bother with conditions I can see it become a issue.

with that said that is not a reason to go.

why warriors need a nerf. that is not a reason to label the entire profession as op. many of the so called op things have existed from day 1 and still didn’t save the warrior from being worthless.

kill shot for instance I’ve seen people label as op even though by their own admittance they wasted their dodges and a projectile reflect and got 1 shotted on a squishy. I should also point out said class can just as easily 1 shot another class but the point being he got out played he lost he came and whined about it. a lot of warrior issues are nothing more then this.

you want to fix the ability to abuse condition cleanse (ire) it’s simple add a 45 second icd. a minor tweak. they use it once and that’s going to be it.

as far as our cleanse which is always one of the things brought up. removing it is a very bad idea. if a warrior has no condition cleanse in the current environment he will instantly be worthless in spvp and wvw. yes you can give him lyssa runes but even then asking for a profession to be able to do what it’s designed for if it uses a specific set of runes is a good way to limit that classes builds heavily.

all our other cleanses meet the critera of either a heal (you’d waste a vital part of your survivability) kinda weak with a rather long cd (shake it off) extremely strong but huge cd (sig of staminia will cure all don’t expect to use it 2x though) zerk stance is usually brought up .

the thing I am trying to explain is that what is making warrior seem op is that ire needs a tweak it’s fixing a loop hole that isn’t intended to be fixed. however a lot of warrior are going to be concerned with how they fix ire moving it to grandmaster alone will not do anything your just giving warriors perm retaltion from spiked armor or a new trait. while a lot of builds use the skill for simple adrenaline gain. not only making things better actually for this particular build but harder on those who do not abuse it. hell I wouldn’t really care much if the cleanse was removed utterly but that would be unfair to those who do use it for a cleanse. a 45 icd would be a fair simple fix it’s how they fix a lot of issues with warriors that creep up.

you agreed that power level density thank you for that.

with that said I don’t agree with you on population diversity. people shouldn’t have incentives to play another class unless they want to play that class and in gw2 lets be honest changing exp in favor is not going to do anything someone did reach max level in 2 days after all and I’ve done it in 2 weeks when I get serious.

atm warriors are in the same shape as engis in a lot of ways. they have things they can abuse that creep up from time to time that need to be fixed not a big deal. (ire covers warriors main weakness so it does seem a lot worse)

remove that CAREFULLY and suddenly the profession is pretty much in line with others.

the issue many fear is anet decide to hit nail with a sledge hammer and ruin the warrior. it is a valid fear even when ironically many would agree that some things need to be tweaked.

the issue is that way a lot of people and it could be wording but you give me this impression I apologize if I’m wrong. want a huge kitten hole in that armor.

you refered to less cleanse and refered to used too a lot will take this as implying the ability to remove 1 condition…if you waste your heal. which bombs lets be honest way gw2 is atm is a death sentence in wvw roaming or zerge or spvp.

(this will be in two parts to comment on what you said appropriately please take time to read it all as I did yours)

I’ve played a lot of games and played a lot of OP classes. Warriors aren’t on the list. Class balance is actually quite good in this game compared to many others. My DAOC scout could one-shot a wizard from max range in the game from stealth. Good times. That scout got knocked into unplayability with a nerf bat for a whole year.

The only broken mechanic is stealth in WvW which needs to be nerfed hard (and I also have a Mesmer and thief). The thief stealth mechanic is the most OP thing in the game IMO. I don’t know why MMOs keep including this mechanic and actually make it worse in GW2 case.

I remember Left-Axe in DAOC and people getting all worked up cause a stealther could occasionally solo two people. That got hit hard with the nerf bat. GW2 has a whole army of invisible roamers killing with impunity and they think it is normal ?

Warriors are fine. Nerf Melandru’s and condi duration food and all is good.

the thing that makes warriors seem over the top is how they can benfit from hambow abusing ire.

to label a few weakness
mobility chill cripple. (immobile as well but can be traited)
healing sig two options each of which are fairly easy high and powerful burst damage or even better posion.

the issue that so many bring up is our cleanses which in all honesty discounting ire are not out of balance. they are by name.

mend (you’d be forced to heal early can’t use 2 heals)
shake it off (only does 2 unless you have solider runs maxed)
sig of stamina cures all conditions.

all of these have major trade offs mend I already mentioned.
shake it off discounting a very specific build will only remove 2 (in a aoe) but has a 25 sec time limit.

sig of stamina you will likely only use this one time during a fight.

k now because zerk stance is brought up I will clear the air of a few things regaurding this skill and warriors in general.

stances have a trend of a extremely powerful effect for a short period of time with a potent counter.

(endure pain cc or condtions)(defiant stances just don’t attack for 3 seconds conditions still heal for that short time balanced gives very short swiftness and stable has a decently long cd)

zerk stance also is much like this if your using power based dps zerk stance will do nothing more then be extra adrenaline which while appreciated is not worth the utl slot as it can be gained other where. it also has a very HUGE loop hole it much like the engi trait that makes you immune to conditons does not clear them.

if you pop it early you waste it pop it late your dead.

so should a warrior have all of these? yes actually keep in mind how limited warriors cleanse used to be shake it off and mend (used to heal only one barely worth mentioning)

warrior had to gain cleanses to survive in the front line because of the ease of which aoe condtions are applied. this forces warriors to make some tough decisions. i.e. I can have all those but no stable no damage mitigation from say endure pain. I can go tanky but my dps (for a warrior) will suffer for it.

warrior ranged options are decent but honestly not that spectacular if your a pure melee based warrior (as was mace sh / gs) build that stunlocked everyone (I was for the change to it)

would have a Extremely diffuclt time against someone who is kiting since you would in this case have 1 kinda reliable skill to gap close which is on a 25 sec cd you don’t want to waste it. add insult to injury if it’s a theif persay they could stealth scurry away and attack from range with short bow use their 3 skill which is a movement + cripple.

things like this pop up it’s definetly not unique to warriors. prior to being fixed engis could spam torment from the runes (although idk how much never did much roaming back then) although I heard stories of 25 stacks and ik anet is fixing a issue where engis could reliably place 1 minutes worth of posion on someone.

why does this seem so much worse because of what the partically abuse is it fixes several counters and unbalances this particular build. individually if these items were used they would be fine.

but when you curing 3 condtions every 7 – 10 seconds your tanky posion will not stick condtions eat through the other guy you got one hell of a fire field giving you the cleanse causeing constant damage and area of denial. all the while healing sig which normal is easily countred by poison has almost no real counters. (necros can burn terror burst but that’s all I’ve heard)

even with all this there is one more thing that adds to this perfect storm. point defense none of this would be much of a issue if it wasn’t for the fact you have to be near they guy this build lacks mobility with only come cc and 1 imboile it’s not really something to shout about.

but in those few instances (z vs z and spvp) I can see how someone could easily struggle with this build.

it’s a literal perfect storm with ire removing what is supposed to be a counter to what is being used down right ot game mechanics is what makes this build threatening.

here lies the problem the meat of the issue.

how do you fix ire. I have heard people say move it to grand master switch it with spiked armor great you just gave the guy perm retaliation basically (no cd on spiked amror and gain retaliation when hit by a crit never used but I’ve read about it)
.

add a icd to the trait kitten seconds or so on ire to gain the cleanse now it’s not spamable. the majority of thing that make hambow op now becomes pretty balanced.)

(one more ran out of room)

I dont think cleansing ire is over the top. Remember for it to be 3 conditions it has to be full not 2.5. Secondly you said shake it off is 2 —--its only 1. If you removed 1-3 conditions every 10 seconds thats not out of line other professions can do the same.

The issue has nothing do do with sustainability and it has everything to do with warriors CC. If a warrior lands it it can be devastating. But then again really good players are somtimes very hard to land CC on. Most of the complaints come from people who either don’t avoid the CC or don’t have stun breaks or stability or a combination of the two.

On to the CC issue other professions necro with their fear spam, ele with their knock downs, engi with supply crate etc can all spam CC. And I have seen those other professions build very durably. Most of the complaints are from people who cant build or play. If it wasn’t warrior QQ threads it would be QQ thread on another professions section.

now with ire out of the picture they have to make up for cleanse some where else.

shake it off
sig of stamina
mend

each on the pick they will lose out on something very important.

ire no longer will keep you up.
posion fields are avaible across the game.
(engi theif even better necro auto attacks with posion on the 3rd strike of the aa chain for scepter)

all of this will be faster then what the war can cleanse it even at max cleanse.

sigil of doom applies 5 sec posion with a icd of 10 seconds considering the shortest cleanse is on a 25 second that’s not bad.

this build would likely still be tanky and would likely have to leave the disc trait line unable to rely on ire for most of it’s cleanse. this makes things rougher on healing sig. that hurts it’s sustain.

they may stay in for the addition cleanse but may not is 45 sec worth it. this is when the hard choices come to play.

they can specialize into condition removal but doing so will likely leave them op in other areas as they use their utls. obviously I can’t go into a build that does not exist yet.

would ire be op this way not really it’s one extra cleanse it’s among the worst of the warrior cleanses for that matter it gives a little extra bonus some will appreciate but has a much more difficult time justifying the condtion removal.

it’s wose then what the engi would have at -25% worse then what a ele has at over 90% guardians now also have better healing with a specific sig that cures a condtions every 10 seconds.

this is a grand master trait and since it was moved it had to be buffed in someway to accomidate so it would be a fair trade off.

hambow would still be a very real threat as it would likely warp forced to change it’s tactics still remain a threat but not nearly as vicious as it once was. it wouldn’t destroy it just put nice kitten in that armor.

just looked it up half the classes have access to posion fields.

Warlord.9074:

I dont think cleansing ire is over the top. Remember for it to be 3 conditions it has to be full not 2.5. Secondly you said shake it off is 2 —--its only 1. If you removed 1-3 conditions every 10 seconds thats not out of line other professions can do the same.

The issue has nothing do do with sustainability and it has everything to do with warriors CC. If a warrior lands it it can be devastating. But then again really good players are somtimes very hard to land CC on. Most of the complaints come from people who either don’t avoid the CC or don’t have stun breaks or stability or a combination of the two.

On to the CC issue other professions necro with their fear spam, ele with their knock downs, engi with supply crate etc can all spam CC. And I have seen those other professions build very durably. Most of the complaints are from people who cant build or play. If it wasn’t warrior QQ threads it would be QQ thread on another professions section.

no shake it off removes 2 condtions for up to five players it was buffed.

although I did think that ire could have potential to be abused but honestly if other professions can spam cleanse like that every 10 seconds yeah it’s kinda hard to make a argument.

actually warlord this guy isn’t talking about the cc part which I’m kinda like you it’s not really that bad. he’s been saying that warriors have too much cleanse. i honestly figured that 3 condtions every 10 seconds may have been a bit over the top for a bulky profession but yeah if other professions are able to do it as well then it’s a non issue.

thank you for pointing that out

Burnfall.9573:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYYxszK0koQ

That warrior was god awful. My ranger survives better on the frontlines then that. I do the same damage too, except i cant do massive AOE stuns every 10 seconds.

Poor play is poor.

wildfang.9670:

Warlord.9074:

I dont think cleansing ire is over the top. Remember for it to be 3 conditions it has to be full not 2.5. Secondly you said shake it off is 2 —--its only 1. If you removed 1-3 conditions every 10 seconds thats not out of line other professions can do the same.

The issue has nothing do do with sustainability and it has everything to do with warriors CC. If a warrior lands it it can be devastating. But then again really good players are somtimes very hard to land CC on. Most of the complaints come from people who either don’t avoid the CC or don’t have stun breaks or stability or a combination of the two.

On to the CC issue other professions necro with their fear spam, ele with their knock downs, engi with supply crate etc can all spam CC. And I have seen those other professions build very durably. Most of the complaints are from people who cant build or play. If it wasn’t warrior QQ threads it would be QQ thread on another professions section.

no shake it off removes 2 condtions for up to five players it was buffed.

although I did think that ire could have potential to be abused but honestly if other professions can spam cleanse like that every 10 seconds yeah it’s kinda hard to make a argument.

actually warlord this guy isn’t talking about the cc part which I’m kinda like you it’s not really that bad. he’s been saying that warriors have too much cleanse. i honestly figured that 3 condtions every 10 seconds may have been a bit over the top for a bulky profession but yeah if other professions are able to do it as well then it’s a non issue.

thank you for pointing that out

It wasn’t buffed I just tested in in spvp it removes 1 and the tooltip says it removes 1 screen shot for proof. Also if it removes 1 condition off 4 other players 5 including yourself it is beside the point. What it does for somone else does not effect warriors own survive.

1 condition every 25 seconds is very weak compared to other classes. And don’t be like other people and say soldier runes makes it do 2 so then it is OP. LOL no other profession has to use 6 runes to remove 2 conditions every 25 seconds.

@bombsaway.

You do realize ranger and mesmers – due to their core concept when they were designed have no place in a zerg?

Why would you want a ranger in a zerg?
Why not an ele / guard / war / necro ? Any one of those classes is FAR better suited.

Why would you want a mesmer in a zerg ? except for veilbotting and portals?

You make no sense.

well I said it so i’ll eat my own words.

I wasn’t lying well not intentionally I would’ve swear it removed 2.seriously i always thought it did then did a quick wiki to check it out and came up to http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shake_It_Off naturally it had the mechanics i though it had as well as hadthe same name i never would imagined it was the rangers.

i accidentally mixed it up with the ranger version of shake it off on the wiki i really don’t have a excuse i should’ve known better.

:(

(yeah ik wiki’s aren’t the most credible of sources but it was quicker then logging on to my war look at his skills)

mix that with the fact i came to a skill with the exact same name and exact same effect i though it had had all along i think yo can see where my mistake came from.

in that regaurds I’m human X D.

with that said i hope your not mad at me and can understand where my mistake came from. (computer isn’t letting me edit my text any more so i did a second spot)

I’m sorry, it was a mistake of words on my part I didn’t mean to be so harsh. Sometimes when I read something it can flip out then end up writing something that crosses the line unintentionally.