Guild Wars 2

Dolyak Signet:
Passive: Reduces incoming damage.
Actual in game effect: +90 toughness (level 80)

Signet of Judgment:
Passive: Reduces incoming damage.
Actual in game effect: 10% damage reduction (10% = 289 toughness)

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/60838-math-damage-reduction-toughness-and-vitality/

Is that a flaw? They are the same wording.
90 toughness is pretty pathetic.

It’s just another one in a long line of things that makes Guardians that much better at tanking than Warriors…. sadly.

I’m just not entirely convinced that it’s intended. They’ve said that they wanted skills to be impactful and meaningful. That’s why there are less than in the original Guild Wars and why there isn’t cross classing.

At release they combined two traits to give us Shield Master which gave us +90 toughness when using a shield AND 20% less cool down. Guardian still had those traits seperated at launch. Later on it was correct.

I would like to be optimistic and believe that is what happened here in vice versa as well. Our signet is likely meant to be a 10% damage reduction.

We can only pick 3. All utilities should be effective at their design. Signets should be something you have to think about before using. This one is only good for stability, but it’s worst than balanced stance(longer cd and no stun break). It’s almost completely useless.

Signet of Judgement has an Active and Passive that is effective for reducing damage yet offer different pros and cons. It’s a perfect example of a solid design for a signet.

I agree, its kind of confusing…. same description different effect…

Akumu.7238:

Signet of Judgement has an Active and Passive that is effective for reducing damage yet offer different pros and cons. It’s a perfect example of a solid design for a signet.

Couldn’t agree more. Maybe with some attention the mistake will be corrected with the upcoming update.

The other signet also give only 90 Toughness, the Guardian one is the only exception:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Earth
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Stone
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dolyak_Signet
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Judgment

All of those should get a 10% damage reduction.

I disagree about Signet of Judgement being an example for good design though, its passive effect is so much stronger that you basically never want to activate it.

SoJ’s active seems by far inferior to that of Dolyak Signet, though. Stability is such a powerful boon. Yes, Dolyak Signet’s passive is definitely not as good as that of SoJ, but really, I’d choose to activate stability over retaliation and weakness any day. Might as well just leave SoJ on passive.

Shadowscamp.8065:

SoJ’s active seems by far inferior to that of Dolyak Signet, though. Stability is such a powerful boon. Yes, Dolyak Signet’s passive is definitely not as good as that of SoJ, but really, I’d choose to activate stability over retaliation and weakness any day. Might as well just leave SoJ on passive.

Whilst this is true, if you want stability Balanced Stance is far superior to Dolyak Signet.

DesertRose.2031:

The other signet also give only 90 Toughness, the Guardian one is the only exception:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Earth

• Passive: Improves toughness.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Stone

• Passive: Improves toughness for you and your pet.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dolyak_Signet

• Passive: Reduces incoming damage.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Judgment

• Passive: Reduces incoming damage.

All of those should get a 10% damage reduction.

Read the wording.

Those very clearly state that they improve your toughness.
Dolyak and Judgment are seperate. They are meant to reduce incoming damage for people playing a heftier style soldier class.

Alexander.4827:

DesertRose.2031:

The other signet also give only 90 Toughness, the Guardian one is the only exception:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Earth

• Passive: Improves toughness.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Stone

• Passive: Improves toughness for you and your pet.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dolyak_Signet

• Passive: Reduces incoming damage.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Judgment

• Passive: Reduces incoming damage.

All of those should get a 10% damage reduction.

Read the wording.

Those very clearly state that they improve your toughness.
Dolyak and Judgment are seperate. They are meant to reduce incoming damage for people playing a heftier style soldier class.

whoosh that is the sound of the entire thread’s discussion going over your head.

Alexander.4827:

They are meant to reduce incoming damage for people playing a heftier style soldier class.

there is no “they”, only the Guardian’s signet gives an indifferent damage reduction (%10), whereas Dolyak gives 90 toughness (definitely NOT 10% damage reduction)…just like the signets he linked.

Neandramathal.9536:

Shadowscamp.8065:

SoJ’s active seems by far inferior to that of Dolyak Signet, though. Stability is such a powerful boon. Yes, Dolyak Signet’s passive is definitely not as good as that of SoJ, but really, I’d choose to activate stability over retaliation and weakness any day. Might as well just leave SoJ on passive.

Whilst this is true, if you want stability Balanced Stance is far superior to Dolyak Signet.

Well yes. I agree to that. But I thought the complaint was between SoJ and DS.

Zietlogik.6208:

the Guardian’s signet gives an indifferent damage reduction (%10), whereas Dolyak gives 90 toughness (definitely NOT 10% damage reduction)…just like the signets he linked.

Read the wording. Dolyak signet says it reduces incoming damage, the same as signet of judgment, not that it raises toughness.

Shadowscamp.8065:

Well yes. I agree to that. But I thought the complaint was between SoJ and DS.

This is not a complaint if a developer came into this thread right now and said that the wording for the Doylak signet was off and should say “raises toughness” meaning that it is functioning correctly right now then that’s fine. I simply won’t use it. My question to developers is it the wording or the functionality that is incorrect? Either way it should be fixed.

Alexander.4827:

Zietlogik.6208:

the Guardian’s signet gives an indifferent damage reduction (%10), whereas Dolyak gives 90 toughness (definitely NOT 10% damage reduction)…just like the signets he linked.

Read the wording. Dolyak signet says it reduces incoming damage, the same as signet of judgment, not that it raises toughness.

Shadowscamp.8065:

Well yes. I agree to that. But I thought the complaint was between SoJ and DS.

This is not a complaint if a developer came into this thread right now and said that the wording for the Doylak signet was off and should say “raises toughness” meaning that it is functioning correctly right now then that’s fine. I simply won’t use it. My question to developers is it the wording or the functionality that is incorrect? Either way it should be fixed.

Why is that not a complaint? You’re disputing the “raises toughness” and “reduces incoming damage” wording. There’s nothing wrong with complaining about that difference. If you think it’s not worded right, or you think it should be changed, then it’s a complaint, and there’s not really anything wrong with that.

And on the subject, raising toughness does technically reduce incoming damage. SoJ just does it better. If want the tooltip to be more specific, then that’s fine. Otherwise, I still think that a Stability active is so much better than a Retaliation/Weakness active. Whether or not a warrior has a better option for stability (balanced stance) is another subject, but still. I don’t think the two signets can really be compared, since one’s strength is in its passive and one is in its active.

Who in the right mind would even use Signet of Judgement on Guards anyways? The top guards don’t even use that because the other skills are better. Either way, both signets are bad and should never be compared to each other anyways because neither of the classes are going to use this if their looking for PvE sustain or Bunker capability.

Shadowscamp.8065:

Why is that not a complaint?

Because it does not cause me pain or dissatisfaction or resentment.
I don’t have stake in either outcome.

Shadowscamp.8065:

I still think that a Stability active is so much better than a Retaliation/Weakness active. Whether or not a warrior has a better option for stability (balanced stance) is another subject, but still. I don’t think the two signets can really be compared, since one’s strength is in its passive and one is in its active.

That’s not really my concern. If the passive for their signet needs to be improved that’s for Arena Net to decide. I am merely asking if there is a major flaw in the dolyak signet or if it is working as intended.

Of course there is a major flaw in the Dolyak Signet:

It both sucks and blows in comparison to Signet of Judgement, despite having the exact same description.

Bump / Anet fix the description of the signet !

I agree, but I play a warrior!

It’s still disappointing compared to a Guardian’s SoJ please Anet fix this error