Guild Wars 2

Disclaimer
This is meant to be a CONSTRUCTIVE, AWARENESS POST. THIS IS NOT A WHINE POST. The goal here is to continue to observe and discuss the flaws surrounding this class, and attempt to tweak and adjust till it has reached a solid, balanced, yet playable, state. If your knee-jerk response is “l2pnub” this is not the thread for you.

Onto topic at hand!

Thick Skin – Still just as useless and boring as ever. This trait is bland, horrible, and mathematically provides as little as a 0.004% increase.

Rifle – The trait competes with Mobile Strikes, and isn’t very good regardless. More importantly, the Baseline rifle is just extremely similar yet inferior in every way to Ranger longbow not to mention inferior overall to Warrior Longbow.

Movement Skills – Without the swiftness boost to GS5 Rush and Bullscharge, they’re back to being mostly useless. Before, Rush was primarily a travel/escape skill, not often used in combat, and Bullscharge. Now they don’t even serve that purpose.
The fix however, is very easy: Have Bullscharge and Rush grant 1 to 1.5 seconds of Haste on use. No, really, think about it. Haste would greatly increase the speed at which that distance is covered, and the speed at which the striking animation happens, making them both a rapid gap-close strike.

Blackhole Traits – Fast Hands, Cleansing Ire. Fast hands needs to just be baseline already, and Cleansing Ire needs to be a minor trait, in the slot where Retribution Armor currently sits. Swap the two.

Berserkers Power – Currently, a level 1 burst proc overwrites a level 3 proc, meaning the 10% damage buff deletes and overrides the 20% damage buff.
The Fix here is easy too, allow both buffs to exist, but only the stronger buff has any effect. So for example, you could end up with 8 seconds of +10% and 4 seconds of +20%. Your total damage bonus will be 20%. In 4 seconds, you’ll just have 4 seconds of 10%, and the 20% will have worn off.

Adrenaline Loss on Miss and Traits – Cleansing Ire, and now Berserkers Power, both fail to proc on a miss. But adrenaline is still lost. There are no other skills/traits in the game that drain your resource/cooldown from some thief spamming blinding powder, yet fail to activate and take effect. It’s got to be changed to be either one way, or the other: Either adrenaline is kept on a miss/blind, or the traits activate when the adrenaline is SPENT, not only on a hit.

Earthshaker – Nothing new here. Still a crazy long random precast delay, still misses targets on a slight incline, still prone during this crazy-long-windup process to be hit by the random blind-spam that everyone is vomitting up left and right.

Feel free to post whatever you see that I have missed.

Disclaimer-Repeated
This is meant to be a CONSTRUCTIVE, AWARENESS POST. THIS IS NOT A WHINE POST. The goal here is to continue to observe and discuss the flaws surrounding this class, and attempt to tweak and adjust till it has reached a solid, balanced, yet playable, state. If your knee-jerk response is “l2pnub” this is not the thread for you.

I heard from others that warhorn has been made useless? Seems that Anet has gone a little condi happy and wants to see more death and destruction with fewer sustained fights.

MaximillianVonSchatten.6278:

I heard from others that warhorn has been made useless? Seems that Anet has gone a little condi happy and wants to see more death and destruction with fewer sustained fights.

I have not tested condi-conversion. I’ll have to get back to you on that. But now that I think about it, charge was nerfed down from 10 targets, down to just 5, so at the very least it was still a huge nerf.

Warrior gets nerfs to stuff like this because their support is too powerful according to ANet, and they’re supposed to be a frontline tanky/smashy class. ANet has a solid idea of what they DONT want Warrior to be able to do. But they aren’t very good at what ANet says they SHOULD be doing, which is why people had all moved to sPvP cele-shoutbows and WvW Zergs running Warhorn Condi-Converts before the patch. It’s an impossible double standard, with the class stuck in a very weird position.

Dand.8231:

Disclaimer
This is meant to be a CONSTRUCTIVE, AWARENESS POST. THIS IS NOT A WHINE POST. The goal here is to continue to observe and discuss the flaws surrounding this class, and attempt to tweak and adjust till it has reached a solid, balanced, yet playable, state. If your knee-jerk response is “l2pnub” this is not the thread for you.

Onto topic at hand!

Thick Skin – Still just as useless and boring as ever. This trait is bland, horrible, and mathematically provides as little as a 0.004% increase.

Rifle – The trait competes with Mobile Strikes, and isn’t very good regardless. More importantly, the Baseline rifle is just extremely similar yet inferior in every way to Ranger longbow not to mention inferior overall to Warrior Longbow.

Movement Skills – Without the swiftness boost to GS5 Rush and Bullscharge, they’re back to being mostly useless. Before, Rush was primarily a travel/escape skill, not often used in combat, and Bullscharge. Now they don’t even serve that purpose.
The fix however, is very easy: Have Bullscharge and Rush grant 1 to 1.5 seconds of Haste on use. No, really, think about it. Haste would greatly increase the speed at which that distance is covered, and the speed at which the striking animation happens, making them both a rapid gap-close strike.

Blackhole Traits – Fast Hands, Cleansing Ire. Fast hands needs to just be baseline already, and Cleansing Ire needs to be a minor trait, in the slot where Retribution Armor currently sits. Swap the two.

Berserkers Power – Currently, a level 1 burst proc overwrites a level 3 proc, meaning the 10% damage buff deletes and overrides the 20% damage buff.
The Fix here is easy too, allow both buffs to exist, but only the stronger buff has any effect. So for example, you could end up with 8 seconds of +10% and 4 seconds of +20%. Your total damage bonus will be 20%. In 4 seconds, you’ll just have 4 seconds of 10%, and the 20% will have worn off.

Adrenaline Loss on Miss and Traits – Cleansing Ire, and now Berserkers Power, both fail to proc on a miss. But adrenaline is still lost. There are no other skills/traits in the game that drain your resource/cooldown from some thief spamming blinding powder, yet fail to activate and take effect. It’s got to be changed to be either one way, or the other: Either adrenaline is kept on a miss/blind, or the traits activate when the adrenaline is SPENT, not only on a hit.

Earthshaker – Nothing new here. Still a crazy long random precast delay, still misses targets on a slight incline, still prone during this crazy-long-windup process to be hit by the random blind-spam that everyone is vomitting up left and right.

Feel free to post whatever you see that I have missed.

Disclaimer-Repeated
This is meant to be a CONSTRUCTIVE, AWARENESS POST. THIS IS NOT A WHINE POST. The goal here is to continue to observe and discuss the flaws surrounding this class, and attempt to tweak and adjust till it has reached a solid, balanced, yet playable, state. If your knee-jerk response is “l2pnub” this is not the thread for you.

+1

I agree with everything you’ve stated.

Earthshaker sure needs a fix. The rest of the stuff is debatable.

My response in bold.

Thick Skin – Still just as useless and boring as ever. This trait is bland, horrible, and mathematically provides as little as a 0.004% increase.

Agreed, thick-skin should have the threshold lowered maybe at 50% and above HP you get the bonus, 90% is too useless for 120 toughness

Rifle – The trait competes with Mobile Strikes, and isn’t very good regardless. More importantly, the Baseline rifle is just extremely similar yet inferior in every way to Ranger longbow not to mention inferior overall to Warrior Longbow.

Rifle needs a complete rework now to compete with other weapons, it doesn’t have enough utility and it doesn’t deal enough damage outside KS

Movement Skills – Without the swiftness boost to GS5 Rush and Bullscharge, they’re back to being mostly useless. Before, Rush was primarily a travel/escape skill, not often used in combat, and Bullscharge. Now they don’t even serve that purpose.
The fix however, is very easy: Have Bullscharge and Rush grant 1 to 1.5 seconds of Haste on use. No, really, think about it. Haste would greatly increase the speed at which that distance is covered, and the speed at which the striking animation happens, making them both a rapid gap-close strike.

Agree the movement skills feel very slow now but I don’t agree it should grant Haste. Maybe Anet’s technical team can come up with a way to speed up the movement speed animations so that it doesn’t feel so slow because Rush looks like you are walking, not rushing.

Blackhole Traits – Fast Hands, Cleansing Ire. Fast hands needs to just be baseline already, and Cleansing Ire needs to be a minor trait, in the slot where Retribution Armor currently sits. Swap the two.

Fast Hands should never be baseline, it’s fine the way it is every War should take Discipline anyway. Cleansing Ire needs to be a master trait, unless they plan on making it proc when adrenaline is spent, not when you hit someone with a burst. i have no isea why Anet made this a GM trait now, no one will ever use Last Stand a d Rousing Resilience because of it

Berserkers Power – Currently, a level 1 burst proc overwrites a level 3 proc, meaning the 10% damage buff deletes and overrides the 20% damage buff.
The Fix here is easy too, allow both buffs to exist, but only the stronger buff has any effect. So for example, you could end up with 8 seconds of +10% and 4 seconds of +20%. Your total damage bonus will be 20%. In 4 seconds, you’ll just have 4 seconds of 10%, and the 20% will have worn off.

Agreed

Adrenaline Loss on Miss and Traits – Cleansing Ire, and now Berserkers Power, both fail to proc on a miss. But adrenaline is still lost. There are no other skills/traits in the game that drain your resource/cooldown from some thief spamming blinding powder, yet fail to activate and take effect. It’s got to be changed to be either one way, or the other: Either adrenaline is kept on a miss/blind, or the traits activate when the adrenaline is SPENT, not only on a hit.

Berserker’s Power and Cleansing Ire should proc when you spend adrenaline after a burst. This opens up Warrior to builds other than longbow and promotes stragetic play. “Do I want to use my burst skill now even though I know I will miss to get rid of these condis or can I survive long enough to land it?” It turns burst skills into a both defensive and offensive option. Right now Longbow gets both benefits on the most brainless burst skill the Warrior has. Anet cannot tell us they make it proc on hit to promote “skillfull” play when Longbow’s burst skill exists

Earthshaker – Nothing new here. Still a crazy long random precast delay, still misses targets on a slight incline, still prone during this crazy-long-windup process to be hit by the random blind-spam that everyone is vomitting up left and right.

Want to add that Inspiring Battle Standard should give reduce cooldowns and increase banner radius and swapped with Merciless Hammer. Merciless Hammer being in GM and competing with Burst Mastery is a kneejerk reaction to Hambow. It doesn’t belong in GM and I feel Anet just did that to kill Hambow once and for all. Problem wasn’t the hammer it was the bow, hence why every pvp warr build relies on longbow.

Kamikazi.5380:

…every War should take Discipline anyway.

What possible argument could you have to support the above? Why should there be a mandatory trait line for any class?

Choppy.4183:

Kamikazi.5380:

…every War should take Discipline anyway.

What possible argument could you have to support the above? Why should there be a mandatory trait line for any class?

Every class has a “mandatory” trait line. By taking Discipline you are taking Warrior’s Sprint, a must in any melee build, Brawler’s Recovery, really great especially with conditions out of control, Destruction of the Empowered, also a great trait, Heightened Focus, or Burst Mastery.

Guardian’s mandatory trait line is Valor for either Monk’s Focus or Altruistic Healing, and Thief’s mandatory traitline is Trickery.

When I say mandatory, I don’t say it in a bad way. They are mandatory because they are so great you’d be gimping yourself not taking them.

Without the need for FH, viable builds would be possible without Discipline. Moreover, why in the world would you be in favour of a required line?

I would say that the movement skill change is the greatest fundamental problem (at least for wvw roaming). The order of which builds are faster than which has effectively changed. Pretty much all classes that use teleports are now effectively faster than those who rely on physical movement skills. For example, a Mesmer with blink alone is as fast as a greatsword warrior now, before the patch the GS warrior with any kind of speed buff could easily outrun a Mesmer. Unless they want warriors to be one of the slower classes, they will need to buff movement skills in some manner.

For compensation they gave all movement skills condi immunity, but personally, I never found being crippled that big of a problem. Historically, I doubt if even 1 out of 10 of my rushes have been ruined by a cripple. Even when I was crippled, my speed bonus negated part of it anyway. In my opinion, the change was effectively nothing more than a nerf to the mobility of classes that used physical movement skills.

It is important to note that this is a problem for other classes as well (notably ranger).

Choppy.4183:

Kamikazi.5380:

…every War should take Discipline anyway.

What possible argument could you have to support the above? Why should there be a mandatory trait line for any class?

Heightened focus is just too strong on DPS builds right now. And Brawler’s Recovery and Warrior sprint is just ridiculous.

So going off-topic and in theory: I don’t think baseline fast hands will do anything but allow a Soldier Amulet skull crack build to happen, which will get bursted fast anyways with the zerker amulet buff and over-all damage increase.

I made a topic for this, but can’t hurt to add it to this list.

Arms GM traits are completely lackluster for power builds, whereas the rest of the traitline offers a lot of incentive to pick it over Strength. The fact that the GM traits offer little to no benefit makes the Arms traitline very unappealing to direct damage build users.

Two possible solutions; have Furious also give you power stacks (the same way it buffs condi) or rework Burst Precision into something useful (when it’s in a line that can boost your crit chance to obscene levels, why would anybody ever pick it for any build, ever?).

If you simply compare the Arms traitline to Strength, you quickly see that Strength has a better design, as both condi and power builds can get a lot of benefits from every traitline.

Agreed, Thick Skin is a garbage trait, vanishes after the first hit.
Maybe they got it the other way round, it’s supposed to add Toughness when below 90%?
(would much rather it be gone and replaced with something else)

Rifle feels lacking, was already niche before and and certainly much less fun now.
lordhelmos’ Steady Aim concept looks like a terrific rework; if we aren’t supposed to be mobile with Rifle might as well have a trait to synergize with that: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Rifle-Fix-Steady-Aim/first#post5189601

Warhorn trait doesn’t convert conditions anymore

I know it was bumped down from Master to Adept but lets be real that frankly doesn’t mean anything anymore, it was the one cool unique trait that warr had and it got nerfed into the ground

eviscerate has TERRIBLE range now that swiftness doesn’t boost it and quickness makes it even worse x_x

BlackTruth.6813:

Choppy.4183:

Kamikazi.5380:

…every War should take Discipline anyway.

What possible argument could you have to support the above? Why should there be a mandatory trait line for any class?

Heightened focus is just too strong on DPS builds right now. And Brawler’s Recovery and Warrior sprint is just ridiculous.

So going off-topic and in theory: I don’t think baseline fast hands will do anything but allow a Soldier Amulet skull crack build to happen, which will get bursted fast anyways with the zerker amulet buff and over-all damage increase.

It definitely would remain a important line for most direct damage builds, and that’s a good thing. The point isn’t too make it useless, it’s to decouple it from a trait that all builds need.

Quick Breathing lost a lot of luster.

Banners don’t have a duration increase trait. I know the first livestream was subject to change but it was stated it would be rolled into inspiring banners at that time. While not gamebreaking nerfs, they’re really unfriendly towards their respective gamemodes.

I am not sure if banner range was affected.

Axe Mastery is a 20% crit damage buff when dual wielding axes that competes with a 20% all the time damage buff. I’ll use it for giggles, but wipe away a patriotic tear at the same time.

I’ve seen a lot of people mention massive dodge roll damage. 5-9k crits. Haven’t tested.

Does unsuspecting foe only work on stuns, or does it also affect dazes, blowouts, etc. etc? I believe previously it was stun only, just curious if that’s still the case.

Oh I’m so glad I found this post, I used to really enjoy my warrior being shout heal cleanse frenzied and still having some damage output with hammer, but it really does feel like we have to go full damage or gtfo, it’s a shame going full damage puts us at such risk of the horrific condition changes. Thanks arena net… real clever

Going to leave PvE out of this because I don’t have much to complain about apart from the placement of the Axe GM.

Seems to me that they decided warriors were so strong that they only justified nerfs across the board in sPvP. Almost like they mainly listened to the community which always associated the power of shoutbows with all of the warrior builds in general.

What it comes to in a discussion about balance however, is a look at the current state of the other classes not just warriors:
There are so many new synergies, adjustments and buffs to already strong builds in the meta. There is more burst, more conditions, more everything.

But now look at warriors… builds everyone ran, some which weren’t even that strong anymore, got mostly nerfed:
-Shouts scale now, making them less effective with celestial gear. Warhorn changes.
-Hambow has a lot of trouble without being able to use all of the traits at the same time.
-Berserker GS builds are at the point they have always been, not a strong one in spvp.
-Berserk axe builds can’t use both of the damage traits.
-etc.

It is the usual ArenaNet balancing issue. They go way overboard with nerfing one class, while slightly or even heavily buffing other classes. This pretty much removes that class out of the meta in return. Players who have been around for a while should remember how many times that has happened…

The problem I always run into in PvP is that as a DPS build I often can’t justify me being in the team over a Mesmer or Teef (I’m ignoring Engi because the nade bug is making them artificially powerful). The build in my sig isn’t bad, I can burst someone down almost as fast if not faster than those 2 classes, but what I lack is utility. Mes and Teef can abuse the Z axis, meanwhile my Rush and WW Attack are now much slower than before.

Of course, I can also deny stomps really well, but I’m not sure that’s worth taking me over something else. Although, I did have a few people really liking the spike setup potential that I offer. Rampage is also potentially devastating if used at the right time.

What it often comes down to is mobility and team utility. The reason why Shoutbow was so good was because it offered so much support. No other class could really match it. Now, I’m not sure what War brings that another class can’t do better.

I really like the new Specialization system, but it’s gonna need some fixing.

There’s not a whole lot to add to the thread but it’s worth mentioning that they removed Inspiring Banners for no apparent reason when it should have been either made baseline or kept in tactics, and I also think it was a pretty stupid move to have Crack Shot and Inspiring Battle Standard moved to Discipline too.

Purple Miku.7032:

There’s not a whole lot to add to the thread but it’s worth mentioning that they removed Inspiring Banners for no apparent reason when it should have been either made baseline or kept in tactics, and I also think it was a pretty stupid move to have Crack Shot and Inspiring Battle Standard moved to Discipline too.

The move has made it possible to run 2(3) Shouts and a Regen banner in the same build. It’s not as strong as the old shoutbow but for a point fight it’s not bad for just sustain yourself for ages. Still not as tanky as D/D Ele is now though.

I would welcome a thick skin functionality change.

I would like to see something along the lines of the eles condi immunity but it should be well scrutinized because if it gets too easy to have we will just have super tanks.
Idea If were over 85% max HP condis cant be applied to us thematicly in line with fresh warriors ignoreing getting bleed while rushing into battle to beat face. If a glass cannon build were to have this then it allows for them to ignore some condis if they are not getting focused but if they are they are fully vunrable to getting loaded up and evapoateing like a glass cannon should be. On the flip side if a “tank” build were to take this it would make it difficult to condi load them up at the start slaughter their team and then circle back allowing them to ideally CC a few members and then continue fighting. This trait should only be noticed early on in fights or if a war suddenly healed to full like a “fresh start” the trait in my head shouldnt make the war SHED any condis already on them just keep more from getting on.

Rifle trait
I feel just needs a LITTLE more love if any. Crack shot already reduces CD and gives a nice add on of pierce.

Rifle weapon skills
i think doesnt need anything the only telegraph an opponet has is “oh HUR DUUR its aiming a gun at my face” its extremely difficult to diffrentiate the skills like it should be your shooting a person how many diffrent ways are there to shoot a gun?

GS5 "rush "
should have NEVER BEEN an “escape” move your weilding a giant sword it shouldnt make it easier to run from a foe it should make it easier to kill them. Rush is hitting for a lot.

Bullrush physical skill-
should have never been an escape move your closeing the distance and running a person over. It should be a set up for more skills to chain and it does just that if you hit with it.

Swapping positions with spiked armor and cleansing ire
Nobody would take spike armor unless it got a large boost to up time cleansing ire is wonderful. I feel it is however needed which it shouldnt be i think. Cleansing ires new position of grandmaster in defence i feel is to lack luster. if it cleansed for each bar of adrenaline like it does for each foe so if you have a lv 1 burst that hits two people it should take two condis if you land a lv 3 burst on alot of people and you had alot of condis it should reward you greatly. On the flip side with the POSSIBILITY of lv 3 burst every 6 seconds its fine just where it is.

Beserkers power:
a lv 1 burst that hits should not overwrite a lv 3 burst that has hit and still has time. I suspect if we could stack those buffs on us it would be too much for other classes to compete with. If we have the buff from a greater burst still running it should let that one play out then IF we have up time from another burst then that buff should take over. Just as you said im confident ANET will see that and bring it in line they are going through a ton of new bugs and glitches currently since alot just changed.

Adrenaline loss/cleansing ire/beserkers power on failed burst.
We shouldnt be able to lv3 burst whiff because of our stupidity or our enemies skill and then attempt to do it again 6 seconds later when there “oh kitten” button is on its 45 second cool down. This was a problem several patches ago where we would do just as i gave an example of. Whiff horribly or be outplayed then attempt it again 5 seconds later.

Earthshaker
A cast time reduction would be appriciated but think about it. your a heavy armor warrior weilding a giant hammer suddenly leaping ten feet and hulk smashing it shouldnt be fast. however it is a burst skill and we dont have access to that skill all the time. We have access to the skill when we ahve been playing our class sufficently for some time in the fight. A hit detection tweek should probably make this skill more wonderful to use like it is.

SomeGinger.5697:

I would welcome a thick skin functionality change.
-snip-

All of us would.

SomeGinger.5697:

Rifle trait
I feel just needs a LITTLE more love if any. Crack shot already reduces CD and gives a nice add on of pierce.

Rifle weapon skills
i think doesnt need anything the only telegraph an opponet has is “oh HUR DUUR its aiming a gun at my face” its extremely difficult to diffrentiate the skills like it should be your shooting a person how many diffrent ways are there to shoot a gun?

Compare the rifle to the Rangers Longbow (because its extremely similar but better in every way) and to the Warrior Longbow (because its the other ranged option competing directly with rifle) and you’ll find it vastly inferior to both.
Vs the Ranger longbow, this is not a debate, it’s literally pure math.
Vs the Warrior longbow, it’s about functionality and synergy with traits like CI.

SomeGinger.5697:

GS5 "rush "
should have NEVER BEEN an “escape” move your weilding a giant sword it shouldnt make it easier to run from a foe it should make it easier to kill them. Rush is hitting for a lot.

Except it doesn’t kill or hit a lot as you suggested.
1) It’s too slow moving to catch anyone with swiftness thats more than 5 feet away
2) It’s too telegraphed to ever hit anyone
3) It’s so buggy and unreliable, it will often swing where people were, missing entirely. Many foes have literally avoided it by simply moving (not even dodging)

SomeGinger.5697:

Earthshaker
A cast time reduction would be appriciated but think about it. your a heavy armor warrior weilding a giant hammer suddenly leaping ten feet and hulk smashing it shouldnt be fast. however it is a burst skill and we dont have access to that skill all the time. We have access to the skill when we ahve been playing our class sufficently for some time in the fight. A hit detection tweek should probably make this skill more wonderful to use like it is.

Now you’re talking theme and feel (big hammer, heavy armor), while im talking balance and usability. Many other class abilities with a dagger do way more damage than a big giant hammer with the full weight of a heavy armor clad warrior descending from the sky. That doesn’t fit with your theme either. Nerf dagger skills, right? /s

Really, Earthshaker does not need to be FASTER, it needs to be MORE CONSISTENT, like I originally said. The delay/cast time is semi-random, and the hit detection is spotty.

Warrior just feels slooow now .. by that I mean just getting from A to B.
Of course it’s not only Warrior, my Guardian/Thief/Ranger all feel sluggish too since patch.

I find myself on Streamlined Engi or Inspiration Mesmer more often now, not cos of their imbadamage (am tryin not to abuse nades/PU), it’s cos they feel so much speedier.