Guild Wars 2

So, i have to admit i’m not quite understanding why so many still consider you low tier in pvp. Obviously, this is coming from my experience as a guardian main, but from what i’ve seen, gunzerker hard counters DH most of the time. It’s gotten to the point that whenever i see a warrior in a match, the first thing i do is check if he’s running rifle so i can keep my eyes on him (so i can use renewed focus when i see him go berserk). I’ve even made a warrior and used a gunflame spec and it’s really addicting to catch a DH with a one hit ko, since a lot of them just sit on the point expecting you to just walk into their traps, and they rarely see the 15k gunflame coming.

Is it that the gunflame thing hasn’t caught on in spvp or is hard countering one class just not considered something that makes you good in spvp?

So there is a few things you can do. If your a old school burn/shout bunker guard you can run shelter and renewed focus. This with aegis helps and so forth. You then get another 3 blocks with focus and with shield can make it so anyone fighting near you cant be hit by it.

If your running DH then you can pull the warrior into traps and the fight therefore forcing them to use there stun break and warrior is easily focus down. Once again you have renewed shelter if you want with focus another 3 block and now the F3.

Also if you have a warrior fighting outside the point your mesmer/ thief should be targeting him so they are not free casting. Also if the warrior hits you for 15k it means 2 things.

1- He running strength- arms- beserker spec which means low sustain and no condi clear.

2- Someone had to be hit by the first gun flame. If your team is just eating gun flame shots thats a L2P issue.

Also you shouldnt be looking to see if they are using rifle but what signets. If they are running 4 signets it means they are super squishy. If they are running 3, it means they chose might or precision. If they chose might you are looking to dodge the second you see the signet go away even if you are blocking. If they chose precision and you see it go away its time to dodge or block.

The reason why its not considered a OP build is because revanent power hammer is better. DH is better and Ranger longbow is better not because of there damage but because of the other things they bring to the table.

l2dodge is your issue

gunzerker is really not that good of a build, it’s average, it works in certain ideal situations and maps such as a sniper. it can kitten up necromancers. it has little sustain and little to no condi clear. infact it’s very subpar in a 1 v 1’s. not bad but mediocore. the builds effectivness depends really on your own tactics and your teammates bieng able to sustain you. But it cannot hold a point or fight on point.

5/10 really.

I’m ofcourse open to the possibility that incredibly skilled warriors can make it work and increase it effectivness in skirmishes. but the build self is meh. A guardian has quite a bit of cc and aegis. to combat them. actually focusing a gunzerker down is really all one needs to do. condi’s will also do the trick or cc.

Just to clarify,

I’m not here to complain about gunzerkers or to ask for advice in dealing with them. The purpose of the thread was to say that as guardian, i believe gunflame berserker is a great counter to DH, particularly trap heavy DH (especially one that runs dragon’s maw over renewed focus). I’ve even made a gunflame zerker and made a sport of hunting down other DHs since i think it’s kind of fun.

But since i only recently made a warrior, i wanted to ask warrior mains if they also considered a glass canon gunflame berserker to be a DH counter, and if yes, why they didn’t think this affected the perception of warrior as a low tier pvp class.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

gunzerker is really not that good of a build, it’s average, it works in certain ideal situations and maps such as a sniper. it can kitten up necromancers. it has little sustain and little to no condi clear. infact it’s very subpar in a 1 v 1’s. not bad but mediocore. the builds effectivness depends really on your own tactics and your teammates bieng able to sustain you. But it cannot hold a point or fight on point.

5/10 really.

I’m ofcourse open to the possibility that incredibly skilled warriors can make it work and increase it effectivness in skirmishes. but the build self is meh. A guardian has quite a bit of cc and aegis. to combat them. actually focusing a gunzerker down is really all one needs to do. condi’s will also do the trick or cc.

I just use signet of might to counter the aegis and shield of courage.

Ah, in that case I think the response is that Gunflame builds aren’t well suited to very much in pvp, even if they are a decent counter to trap-heavy DHs, and that’s why they (and warrior generally) are considered low tier.

I’ve been playing DH. the true shot JI test of faith combo destroys warriors. just use that.

gunflame is gimmick. it does a lot of damage, but a dodge or heavy counter pressure will ruin the warriors day. if you can take over 50% of his health in the opening combo there is no way for him to recover from it.

Kuya.6495:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

gunzerker is really not that good of a build, it’s average, it works in certain ideal situations and maps such as a sniper. it can kitten up necromancers. it has little sustain and little to no condi clear. infact it’s very subpar in a 1 v 1’s. not bad but mediocore. the builds effectivness depends really on your own tactics and your teammates bieng able to sustain you. But it cannot hold a point or fight on point.

5/10 really.

I’m ofcourse open to the possibility that incredibly skilled warriors can make it work and increase it effectivness in skirmishes. but the build self is meh. A guardian has quite a bit of cc and aegis. to combat them. actually focusing a gunzerker down is really all one needs to do. condi’s will also do the trick or cc.

I just use signet of might to counter the aegis and shield of courage.

Yah going pure glass Rifle with Signet of Might kinda is just a flat out hardcounter to Guardian in general. Their sustain is focused on blocks so you just wait for them to come out then unload. Stay close and use a CC when they heal and they won’t even have time to use their elite.

It’s still not an amazing build, but it has its uses vs any block-based build.

If you really want to beat it, CC and burn him to death.
Gunflame berserkers have a really hard time if they can’t sit back and snipe. That said, they really do eat through blocks.

Or get a condition bomb necro and have him run up on him and just laugh.

I’ll elaborate on the combo. it will ruin most classes days.

start the cast for true shot. when it’s almost done use JI. drop test of faith as soon as you land so heavy light on true shot will knock them back through the blades. then use spear of justice to pull them back to you. then swap to GS and finish them off with 2.

ofc a stunbreak or an invun can save the opponent, but it’s a big surprise and usually takes over half their HP if they survive it. it’s easy to use your remaining meditations and virtues to survive long enough to win.

Kuya.6495:

Just to clarify,

I’m not here to complain about gunzerkers or to ask for advice in dealing with them. The purpose of the thread was to say that as guardian, i believe gunflame berserker is a great counter to DH, particularly trap heavy DH (especially one that runs dragon’s maw over renewed focus). I’ve even made a gunflame zerker and made a sport of hunting down other DHs since i think it’s kind of fun.

But since i only recently made a warrior, i wanted to ask warrior mains if they also considered a glass canon gunflame berserker to be a DH counter, and if yes, why they didn’t think this affected the perception of warrior as a low tier pvp class.

Well let me clarify,

Ive tried the strength gun flame build with arms going 2-2-1 and arms 2-2-2. Ive tried arms 2-2-2 with discipline 1-3-3. Of course anyone running defective full trap builds will get crushed especially in a new meta were dps/condi dmg is at a high.

When facing a actual good DH this will not be the case. They will do the things i said in my previous post. Simply put this gun flame build is a bit gimmicky and a 1 trick pony. It can only be successful against players running around casually going threw the motions. When you play against people who take it some what competitively and know what to do, this build will fall.

Also side note, DH will probably be in competitive team comps with thieves and mesmer back for team options.

well berserker is actually doing fine.
it is just that reaper, rev, druid,scrapper are too op.

but what i mean, warrior is not fine, i mean, core.
I think it is same for guardian as well.

But it’s like thing that no one care in these days xD

@kuya
List of questions for you

• How many heals do you have?
• How many stuns do you have? Pulls?
• How many blocks do you have?
• Protection? Regeneration? Aegis?
• Are you running trappers runes? how much stealth you have?
• You really think we hard counter you?

Okay because that sounds really snippy let me inform you of something. Killshot, and Gunflame are overpowered skills on an extremely under-powered class. As such it makes the class have one viable option. one day it will be nerfed.

emkelly.2371:

@kuya
List of questions for you

• How many heals do you have?
• How many stuns do you have? Pulls?
• How many blocks do you have?
• Protection? Regeneration? Aegis?
• Are you running trappers runes? how much stealth you have?
• You really think we hard counter you?

Okay because that sounds really snippy let me inform you of something. Killshot, and Gunflame are overpowered skills on an extremely under-powered class. As such it makes the class have one viable option. one day it will be nerfed.

Yo dude,

That all sounds great and everything and i’m not trying to make you look like an idiot, but blocks don’t matter with signet of might. The only thing that a guard can do to stop gunflame is dodge or RF. Also, guards don’t have stuns. They have dazes with traps, which require that the guard pulls you in, which requires you don’t dodge the spear, and which requires the guard to know that he needs to pull you in before you use gunflame.

A guard could use the stealth from trapper runes to avoid the gunflame, but that’s only if he knows it’s coming.

I don’t know why you’re getting so defensive. I’m not here to ask for nerfs for gunflame, if that’s the impression you got. It’s kind of frustrating that this is the second time i must repeat this. It almost feels as if people read the first few sentences of my OP and completely ignore the rest of the conversation that took place beforehand. Stop it.

I’m here to say, again, that i think gunflame is a great hard counter to trap DH and i think it’s unfair to say warrior is the worst class in pvp when and if traited properly, it can be used to hard counter other classes. I do think gunflame and its damage when traited properly should exist and i’m not here to complain about it or ask for it to get nerfed. Can we please get over this?

BurrTheKing.8571:

Kuya.6495:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

gunzerker is really not that good of a build, it’s average, it works in certain ideal situations and maps such as a sniper. it can kitten up necromancers. it has little sustain and little to no condi clear. infact it’s very subpar in a 1 v 1’s. not bad but mediocore. the builds effectivness depends really on your own tactics and your teammates bieng able to sustain you. But it cannot hold a point or fight on point.

5/10 really.

I’m ofcourse open to the possibility that incredibly skilled warriors can make it work and increase it effectivness in skirmishes. but the build self is meh. A guardian has quite a bit of cc and aegis. to combat them. actually focusing a gunzerker down is really all one needs to do. condi’s will also do the trick or cc.

I just use signet of might to counter the aegis and shield of courage.

Yah going pure glass Rifle with Signet of Might kinda is just a flat out hardcounter to Guardian in general. Their sustain is focused on blocks so you just wait for them to come out then unload. Stay close and use a CC when they heal and they won’t even have time to use their elite.

It’s still not an amazing build, but it has its uses vs any block-based build.

nah not even close man. signet of might is is really the only thing that actualy gets through aegis, but guardians can apply them so easily and have way more cc, that u are not actually hardcountering much here. a berserker can destroy a dragonhunter in team skirmishes provided the gunzerker is not bieng focused on and has the correct positioning and the sustain to not outright die. the gunzerker is litterally all or nothing. remember a dragonhunter can also attack them, the very squishy gunzerker.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Kuya.6495:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

gunzerker is really not that good of a build, it’s average, it works in certain ideal situations and maps such as a sniper. it can kitten up necromancers. it has little sustain and little to no condi clear. infact it’s very subpar in a 1 v 1’s. not bad but mediocore. the builds effectivness depends really on your own tactics and your teammates bieng able to sustain you. But it cannot hold a point or fight on point.

5/10 really.

I’m ofcourse open to the possibility that incredibly skilled warriors can make it work and increase it effectivness in skirmishes. but the build self is meh. A guardian has quite a bit of cc and aegis. to combat them. actually focusing a gunzerker down is really all one needs to do. condi’s will also do the trick or cc.

I just use signet of might to counter the aegis and shield of courage.

Yah going pure glass Rifle with Signet of Might kinda is just a flat out hardcounter to Guardian in general. Their sustain is focused on blocks so you just wait for them to come out then unload. Stay close and use a CC when they heal and they won’t even have time to use their elite.

It’s still not an amazing build, but it has its uses vs any block-based build.

nah not even close man. signet of might is is really the only thing that actualy gets through aegis, but guardians can apply them so easily and have way more cc, that u are not actually hardcountering much here. a berserker can destroy a dragonhunter in team skirmishes provided the gunzerker is not bieng focused on and has the correct positioning and the sustain to not outright die. the gunzerker is litterally all or nothing. remember a dragonhunter can also attack them, the very squishy gunzerker.

gunflame burst pierces, but anyway berserker gunflame is a gimmick build its more of wvw sniping than spvp. also the animation is so easy to tell, he goes RED and HE KNEEL for 2 secs i mean really? i press V = GG

Wall of reflection , thingy.

But yes. Kill shot is bad deseign also on a non blockable berserker warrior

Do note that unblockable projectiles are not reflectable.

Kuya.6495

Yo dude…

Just wanted to say i’m sorry if i offended you. what i was trying to get across is that Berserker was not hard countering you. What was hard countering you was the sheer damage of one skill+a signet that makes it unblockable for like 6 seconds. It can be easily dodged and actually completely countered by simply swapping to sword and pressing 3.. you see gun flame can be LOSed in melee and once you are in melee there’s absolutely nothing we can do about it.

Another thing you have to think about is that the Dragonhunter is way more versatile than you are litting on. There is so much more you can do with your traps than just laying them down and pulling people into them. The superspeed and stealth from trappers runes basically turns you into the best skirmisher in the game. I personally run 5 traps. I use them strategically depending on my situation. The minute I see a warrior my goal is to stealth then surround them in traps. If I’m still in stealth I give them a trueshot they are not likely to be able to avoid because the don’t know I’m casting it. Then I pull them into a trap, swap to sword/focus and finish them off with #2. If they are still up because of endure pain I Just activate a focus skill to get protection and three blocks and stay right next to them. If they start casting a gunflame or killshot, I just move through them which LOSs the shot if done correctly. If they swap to GS, which is likely i activate my forward block after my focus blocks are done. The whole time I am doing damage and if that rotation somehow fails, i just drop a heal trap and start again. if they pull me out of stealth by triggering a trap they get a Trueshot while they are dazed. I’m sorry but these are just a few ways to deal with Gunflame warriors that I know of. There are WAAAAY better players than me out there and all it takes is a little understanding about what your class can do to completly shut down the one trick pony that is the Gunflame.

The finest players playing warrior right now cannot come up with a more viable build for the class than Gunflame Berserker and as previous posters have mentioned it is a gimmick build..

In the future Gunflame and killshot will get nerfed very badly. (they need to be) but the problem is that the warrior has had nothing but nerfs for over a year with crappy buffs that don’t actually fix the problem the class has. You cannot blame warriors for getting upset when someone tries to say that their one viable option hard counters something. especially when that is just not true.

emkelly.2371:

In the future Gunflame and killshot will get nerfed very badly. (they need to be) but the problem is that the warrior has had nothing but nerfs for over a year with crappy buffs that don’t actually fix the problem the class has.

I hope it gets nerfed too (with corresponding buffs elsewhere, of course). But I disagree about the “nothing but nerfs” sentiment.

Imo, the new trait system released in the summer boosted us from where we were, though some classes did better during that process (and were subsequently nerfed). The buffs to shield and Last Stand a few months ago were also very good buffs.

Imo, thieves hold the title for longest stretch of continual nerfs, with the most recent patch being the c-c-c-combo breaker (Daredevil excluded).

I play gunzerker in sPvP. Considering that in their design notes ANet wanted Warrior rifle as something that could snipe things and do huge burst damage, I don’t think it’s going to get nerfed any time soon.

/quote: “Rifle has also seen a bit of a rework, gaining a more defensive nature while retaining its overall purpose of kill-shotting every enemy of Tyria.” /endquote

Killshot has been nerfed from time to time, but overall it won’t take a nerf that changes its overall functionality. The only thing I can see reasonably happening to Gunflame is that you won’t be able to move while channeling it, increasing the channel time, or decreasing the velocity increase of the shot itself to make it easier to dodge. And in all honesty, what effect will this have on people who know how to counter KS/Gunflame already?

Absolutely no effect.

What effect will this have on people who have no idea how to counter KS/Gunflame?

Absolutely no effect.

I feel that the concerns about Trap DH v. Gunzerker are more or less parallel with the common complaint by gun warriors that condition necros tear them apart and there’s nothing they can do. Some things in this game hard counter other things in this game. So, Gunzerker counters trap DH, Condi Necros and vision+common sense counter Gunzerker. To be honest with you, I don’t really see the problem.

What really should happen is that the rest of Warrior gets a buff so that it’s on-par with what Gunzerker can do.

you may be right, but i think they will nerf it significantly. I cannot see Anet allowing 20k unblock-able damage go without nerf for very long. when they do nerf it warriors will have absolutely nothing to show for themselves.

emkelly.2371:

you may be right, but i think they will nerf it significantly. I cannot see Anet allowing 20k unblock-able damage go without nerf for very long. when they do nerf it warriors will have absolutely nothing to show for themselves.

Only 20k and unblockable if you’re willing to sacrifice what little sustain we already have.

Try and add in some sustain and you’ll see the damage drop quickly.