Guild Wars 2

What is the big deal? I run pugs and I now find that groups complain more and more about warriors in the group not running PS/EA. As if that is the only viable spec for a decent clear speed with randoms. It’s not even like I’m using Soldier’s or Cleric’s or some “unique” build not remotely optimized for damage; I run straight ascended zerker dual wield (66002) with banners if necessary.

Has EA/PS become so expected that even 65003 or 66002 is not enough? Am I missing something or is EA/PS that much stronger (I haven’t dug around the dps charts and whatnot)?

So I ask you fellow warriors, what has been your experience regarding warrior expectations and keep in mind that this mostly pertains to pugs.

I can’t really much in the perspective of a warrior as I play mine extremely rarely. However. As a ranger all I can say is ‘I know your pain’ My build and traits are pretty much predetermined. Its that way for quite a bit of people. The “meta” is so confining that every now and then someone ends up on the wrong side of it. Which is what happened to you.

Honestly with your likely damage output there shouldn’t be a problem. But people are going to complain the second they see less than 25 stacks of might from you (or no spotter or frost spirit from me) because they see it not as you hurting your own damage but as you hurting theirs. Which is all they care about.

I’ve never gotten bashed for not running PS. But I have gotten praised for running it. That being said, it shouldn’t matter much because PvE content is already very easy.

If running PS isn’t fun for you (it’s really not a fun build), then don’t run it. Other people just whine because they want you to play a certain way so they can see big numbers.

I actually recognize this.

I tend to stay away from groups that ask for specific builds or high achievement points. One of two things always seems to happen in these groups; you get a flamewar, or they apear to be terribad and die half the time.

I also really dislike people kicking other people with low AP. We’ve all been new, heck, I know kitten about PvE really.

If the warrior doesn’t run PS, it means the elementalist(s) have to swap off staff to be the party might stackers. In an absolutely perfect scenario the two ele’s would have perfect rotations and everyone would have 25 Might always and no one else’s combo fields would overwrite the fire fields.

This is a challenge to do absolutely perfectly in organized teams doing record runs. Pugs? Forget about it.

PS = easy Might stacking for the whole party and lets the Ele’s run staff for higher dps and easier to play playstyle.

tldr; it requires a lot less effort and coordination to run a PS warrior based team comp so people tend to prefer it in pugs where the ability to coordinate is lower.

If you have only one Warrior in a party and this Warrior is not PS/EA……..
PS/EA is the BEST Dps Booster ingame.
The Group Dps Boost for Running PS/EA is MUCH higher than the Dps from 66002.

If you have 2 or more Warrior in your Party , then one plays PS/EA and all other 66002.

As a Main Warrior im ok with this. And i also believe that more than one Warrior per party is waste of Dps/Utility.

I run PS/EA and it makes a huge difference when running with pugs or guild teams…. 0 to 25 might stacks in 3.2 seconds (exaggerating but you know what i mean)

I actually enjoy playing that build but no one forces me to run it. I look at team comp and if no Ele i def run PS/EA. if there is an ele i sometimes jump on my guard instead.

Most of the time its 3 guildies and 2 pugs so i almost always run PS/EA.

I think a lot of you are over hyping PS/EA. i also did this when until i watched a pod-cast yesterday with Brazil, Nemesis, and some other guy… anyways the party wide dps increase is nice if your fellow players can manage good dps uptime and they know how to play their class ex. they could be a staff ele with one of the highest theoretical dps’s over a 30 second period of time, but as soon as they die or as soon as they dont know that they should be using Meteor storm or 100% uptime lava font etc… the effectiveness of PS/EA drops significantly. PS/EA will not make bad players good. It will make mediocre players look better and it may even detract from a team where an engi or ele is solo stacking might before a fight. PS/EA is a band-aid for mediocre players. Good players will combo field and bad players dont benefit enough from PS/EA to make it useful imo.

Those trait changes can’t come soon enough. I want maximum personal DPS and good party support.

why wouldn’t a ranger use frost spirit or spotter?

sorrychief.2563:

why wouldn’t a ranger use frost spirit or spotter?

multiple reasons. Its boring. Its really boring. Its unbelievably boring after the three hundredth dungeon. Its not required to complete content. The only team that really NEEDS it are those attempting to speed run. Having a frost spirit detracts from your playstyle if your playstyle doesn’t involve actually running something like that. Spotter takes up spots for piercing shots or eagle eye. both of which have better personal uses.

Ill run them generally for groups I respect (high level fractals. Guild dungeon runs.) But for the average whiny twit that wants to blame his death on someone else? Nah. Ill run what I enjoy.

By not running PS/ea the rest of ur party is losing 600+ power if no one is might stacking

Tell them to stack their own effin might! Why should you be responsible for their DPS?

Seriously, though I am big supporter of the play how you want as long as you can hold your own. Which is why I never join group that demand certain builds. I usually bring a banner and FGJ and that is the extent of my party support. If they aren’t happy with that then they can kick me.

Getting bashed for not using it is pretty sad, but if it’s what is asked in the LFG ad then you have no choice but to either obey or not join them to begin with.

I recognise how strong phalanx warr is but I never use it in the sight of strangers because I have no way of verifying whether or not their rotations are proper, they are using adequate traits, will actually do their jobs properly etc. Wasting my own DPS at the expense of pugs who probably will not even properly using all of the power I give them sounds foolish to me.

So want to know what I do about it? I just don’t go with those people.

And if I ever do pug it’s certainly not in fractals or any group formed with one of those pathetic elitist LFG ads. I recommend the same for you OP.

Play with whatever build you want. Just play it in a group that accepts it. Just as the people tried to impose themselves onto you, you should not do the same to them. Acknowledge the desires of others and if they want something that you are not willing to provide, then leave them.

Jironimo.6398:

What is the big deal?

Pugs can’t stack might very well most of the time so being able to press 2 and max your party’s Might makes pug runs so much more tolerable.

Not really much more too it.

Lev.2048:

I think a lot of you are over hyping PS/EA. i also did this when until i watched a pod-cast yesterday with Brazil, Nemesis, and some other guy… anyways the party wide dps increase is nice if your fellow players can manage good dps uptime and they know how to play their class ex. they could be a staff ele with one of the highest theoretical dps’s over a 30 second period of time, but as soon as they die or as soon as they dont know that they should be using Meteor storm or 100% uptime lava font etc… the effectiveness of PS/EA drops significantly. PS/EA will not make bad players good. It will make mediocre players look better and it may even detract from a team where an engi or ele is solo stacking might before a fight. PS/EA is a band-aid for mediocre players. Good players will combo field and bad players dont benefit enough from PS/EA to make it useful imo.

I also watched that. But I have to say Nemesis is underestimating pugs these days. I have been pugging fractal 50 every day recently. The vast majority of players I found through lfg know what they are doing and we clear 50 rather smoothly. Yeah, occasionally(mostly weekends), I get poor groups that die often. But I am fine with that once in a while.

Exciton.8942:

I also watched that. But I have to say Nemesis is underestimating pugs these days. I have been pugging fractal 50 every day recently. The vast majority of players I found through lfg know what they are doing and we clear 50 rather smoothly. Yeah, occasionally(mostly weekends), I get poor groups that die often. But I am fine with that once in a while.

Really? I’m guessing you must be on NA then, because EU pugs are almost all bugging mossman in the water and 1-shotting Lupi on the wall like complete amateurs.

To find groups that don’t do this would be like finding the holy grail and believe me players that resort to tactics like this can definitely not coordinate combo fields and stack might with eles. These are the type of players that just spam their skills off cooldown without caring about rotations.

Lev.2048:

I think a lot of you are over hyping PS/EA. i also did this when until i watched a pod-cast yesterday with Brazil, Nemesis, and some other guy… anyways the party wide dps increase is nice if your fellow players can manage good dps uptime and they know how to play their class ex. they could be a staff ele with one of the highest theoretical dps’s over a 30 second period of time, but as soon as they die or as soon as they dont know that they should be using Meteor storm or 100% uptime lava font etc… the effectiveness of PS/EA drops significantly. PS/EA will not make bad players good. It will make mediocre players look better and it may even detract from a team where an engi or ele is solo stacking might before a fight. PS/EA is a band-aid for mediocre players. Good players will combo field and bad players dont benefit enough from PS/EA to make it useful imo.

This is pretty terrible logic. “Don’t run party buffs because the rest of the party has bad dps.” That’s called a self-fulfilling prophecy. Even with 4 other players in Nomads you being on PS is increasing the overall party Power by 3,600 which is like having a second Berserker geared player on the team. Switching to DPS warrior isn’t going to provide that kind of upgrade.

As far as “mediocre players” go, most speed clear guilds run PS+EA so take that for what it’s worth.

NikeEU.7690:

Lev.2048:

I think a lot of you are over hyping PS/EA. i also did this when until i watched a pod-cast yesterday with Brazil, Nemesis, and some other guy… anyways the party wide dps increase is nice if your fellow players can manage good dps uptime and they know how to play their class ex. they could be a staff ele with one of the highest theoretical dps’s over a 30 second period of time, but as soon as they die or as soon as they dont know that they should be using Meteor storm or 100% uptime lava font etc… the effectiveness of PS/EA drops significantly. PS/EA will not make bad players good. It will make mediocre players look better and it may even detract from a team where an engi or ele is solo stacking might before a fight. PS/EA is a band-aid for mediocre players. Good players will combo field and bad players dont benefit enough from PS/EA to make it useful imo.

This is pretty terrible logic. “Don’t run party buffs because the rest of the party has bad dps.” That’s called a self-fulfilling prophecy. Even with 4 other players in Nomads you being on PS is increasing the overall party Power by 3,600 which is like having a second Berserker geared player on the team. Switching to DPS warrior isn’t going to provide that kind of upgrade.

As far as “mediocre players” go, most speed clear guilds run PS+EA so take that for what it’s worth.

Most speed clear guilds know what/when to dodge and what/when skills should be used to maximize dps. Most pug groups don’t. What is the point of buffing the the entire party if they can’t maximize on that buff?

Julie Yann.5379:

NikeEU.7690:

Lev.2048:

I think a lot of you are over hyping PS/EA. i also did this when until i watched a pod-cast yesterday with Brazil, Nemesis, and some other guy… anyways the party wide dps increase is nice if your fellow players can manage good dps uptime and they know how to play their class ex. they could be a staff ele with one of the highest theoretical dps’s over a 30 second period of time, but as soon as they die or as soon as they dont know that they should be using Meteor storm or 100% uptime lava font etc… the effectiveness of PS/EA drops significantly. PS/EA will not make bad players good. It will make mediocre players look better and it may even detract from a team where an engi or ele is solo stacking might before a fight. PS/EA is a band-aid for mediocre players. Good players will combo field and bad players dont benefit enough from PS/EA to make it useful imo.

This is pretty terrible logic. “Don’t run party buffs because the rest of the party has bad dps.” That’s called a self-fulfilling prophecy. Even with 4 other players in Nomads you being on PS is increasing the overall party Power by 3,600 which is like having a second Berserker geared player on the team. Switching to DPS warrior isn’t going to provide that kind of upgrade.

As far as “mediocre players” go, most speed clear guilds run PS+EA so take that for what it’s worth.

Most speed clear guilds know what/when to dodge and what/when skills should be used to maximize dps. Most pug groups don’t. What is the point of buffing the the entire party if they can’t maximize on that buff?

Because its better than the party completing the content unbuffed?

NikeEU.7690:

Lev.2048:

I think a lot of you are over hyping PS/EA. i also did this when until i watched a pod-cast yesterday with Brazil, Nemesis, and some other guy… anyways the party wide dps increase is nice if your fellow players can manage good dps uptime and they know how to play their class ex. they could be a staff ele with one of the highest theoretical dps’s over a 30 second period of time, but as soon as they die or as soon as they dont know that they should be using Meteor storm or 100% uptime lava font etc… the effectiveness of PS/EA drops significantly. PS/EA will not make bad players good. It will make mediocre players look better and it may even detract from a team where an engi or ele is solo stacking might before a fight. PS/EA is a band-aid for mediocre players. Good players will combo field and bad players dont benefit enough from PS/EA to make it useful imo.

This is pretty terrible logic. “Don’t run party buffs because the rest of the party has bad dps.” That’s called a self-fulfilling prophecy. Even with 4 other players in Nomads you being on PS is increasing the overall party Power by 3,600 which is like having a second Berserker geared player on the team. Switching to DPS warrior isn’t going to provide that kind of upgrade.

As far as “mediocre players” go, most speed clear guilds run PS+EA so take that for what it’s worth.

^ THIS! as PS/EA war with FGJ, Sig of Rage, Forceful Greatsword Trait and a sigil of strength in my GS i can provide 25 might stacks (750 power+150 from EA) without even breaking a sweat. If i decide to bring 2 banners (discipline and Strength) thats an additional 170 of power/precision/ferocity and condition damage to EVERYONE.

So summary, i give 1070 power, 1070 Condi damage plus 170 additional precision/ferocity/condi to entire party.

That is incredibily useful to anyone in the team regardless of skill level or rotation use.

For a team member to “waste” that power they would have to literally unequip weapons and AFK.

NikeEU.7690:

Lev.2048:

I think a lot of you are over hyping PS/EA. i also did this when until i watched a pod-cast yesterday with Brazil, Nemesis, and some other guy… anyways the party wide dps increase is nice if your fellow players can manage good dps uptime and they know how to play their class ex. they could be a staff ele with one of the highest theoretical dps’s over a 30 second period of time, but as soon as they die or as soon as they dont know that they should be using Meteor storm or 100% uptime lava font etc… the effectiveness of PS/EA drops significantly. PS/EA will not make bad players good. It will make mediocre players look better and it may even detract from a team where an engi or ele is solo stacking might before a fight. PS/EA is a band-aid for mediocre players. Good players will combo field and bad players dont benefit enough from PS/EA to make it useful imo.

This is pretty terrible logic. “Don’t run party buffs because the rest of the party has bad dps.” That’s called a self-fulfilling prophecy. Even with 4 other players in Nomads you being on PS is increasing the overall party Power by 3,600 which is like having a second Berserker geared player on the team. Switching to DPS warrior isn’t going to provide that kind of upgrade.

As far as “mediocre players” go, most speed clear guilds run PS+EA so take that for what it’s worth.

I think you may have misunderstood what I am saying. What I am saying is that I do not feel like the benefits of playing PS/EA outweigh the overall boring feeling of playing and even the massive buffs it gives to a party when said party is not even filled with mediocre players. When a player say a thief is running a venom share build and everyone else in the dungeon is running some really not that great build for that type of content or they are simply dead 50% of the time I cannot justify to myself buffing them over increasing my personal DPS. However, as soon as those players run halfway decent builds and are say only dead 10% of the time the entire stage is shifted because then I feel as though I can handle the bore that is PS/EA because to a mediocre Player (One who I define as running a build that takes damage modifiers even if they dont play a META build as long as the build is coherent and remotely useful ie more than a venom share thief, Idont care what there armor is. In addition that player is also not dead 80% of the time) PS/EA is infinitely more beneficial than personal DPS, but to take this further I feel like it loses value again once you enter a party that can have an ele put down staff 2 and hit 25 might then go and kill the boss in 10 seconds. what would be the point in PS/EA there. EA would be useful but not the full PS/EA build.

As for your statement saying its better than letting the party do the content unbuffed. Again that is what I am trying to say. in some cases yeah id rather do the content unbuffed when everyone in the group is playing with one hand and dead on the ground 50% of the time, probably doing some stupid number like 1k dps. Id rather take the DPS build that has a max dps of 13k and probably can sustain somewhere around 7.5k which is either the rest of the parties dps combined or a little less than take PS/EA which has a max of 7k and probably sustains like 5k, but it boosts the parties dps by 1k per person. yeah it doubled the rest of the parties dps, but they are dead half the time so who cares. that is when PS/EA is useless. Again PS/EA is not a carrier. Bad players cant make use of it, most good players have better options, but for people in the middle its great.

What I am trying to say is a great deal of people in-game hold PS/EA to be some kind of PUG savior when in reality its a great build for mediocre play imo. Ive never done any type of record run, but thats not what we are talking about here. Id have to say that 80% of players ive played with would fall into mediocre and that is why I still run PS/EA about 90% of the time. I just do not find it to be the lord and savior that everyone claims it to be. I have gone and read the numbers on your forums ankitten ot trying to dispute them, but my playing experience will always take precedence over any numbers that anybody calculated when it comes to something of this nature. If after this you cannot see what I am trying to say. We can agree to disagree.

EDIT: I consider myself to fall into the mediocre category. I know I am not in the top 10% and am probably not in the bottom 10%. I ahve no problem running meta builds in fact i enjoy most of them.

If you aren’t going to play meta, then find people to play with that don’t request/require it.

Just as you are not obligated to play the way other people want you to …
… other people are not obligated to play with you no matter how you play.

Every class has this sort of issue.

NikeEU.7690:

Julie Yann.5379:

NikeEU.7690:

Lev.2048:

I think a lot of you are over hyping PS/EA. i also did this when until i watched a pod-cast yesterday with Brazil, Nemesis, and some other guy… anyways the party wide dps increase is nice if your fellow players can manage good dps uptime and they know how to play their class ex. they could be a staff ele with one of the highest theoretical dps’s over a 30 second period of time, but as soon as they die or as soon as they dont know that they should be using Meteor storm or 100% uptime lava font etc… the effectiveness of PS/EA drops significantly. PS/EA will not make bad players good. It will make mediocre players look better and it may even detract from a team where an engi or ele is solo stacking might before a fight. PS/EA is a band-aid for mediocre players. Good players will combo field and bad players dont benefit enough from PS/EA to make it useful imo.

This is pretty terrible logic. “Don’t run party buffs because the rest of the party has bad dps.” That’s called a self-fulfilling prophecy. Even with 4 other players in Nomads you being on PS is increasing the overall party Power by 3,600 which is like having a second Berserker geared player on the team. Switching to DPS warrior isn’t going to provide that kind of upgrade.

As far as “mediocre players” go, most speed clear guilds run PS+EA so take that for what it’s worth.

Most speed clear guilds know what/when to dodge and what/when skills should be used to maximize dps. Most pug groups don’t. What is the point of buffing the the entire party if they can’t maximize on that buff?

Because its better than the party completing the content unbuffed?

Better for who?

Oh boy here we go with the “it’s boring to play” canard. Boring? PS has the same DPS rotation as the DPS build PLUS it gets to use Arcing Slice. So if anything, it’s less boring. Unless you’re saying that getting a 32k hundred blades is somehow less “boring” than a 26k hundred blades, which is ridiculous too.

It’s really a new low for the community when kill times and party synergy are less important than damage floaters.

I gotta add in here…I usually run a PS/EA warrior in pugs if I am doing a Dungeon unless they ask for something different. On rare occasion that has happened when there’s more than 1 warrior. I’ve ran everything from Banners to a Healing Shouts + 1 Banner Warrior builds…as the groups I have joined tried to somewhat tweak out the party.

I also will run Frost Spirit and Spotter on my Ranger in the same scenario. ..pug Dungeoning.

In ANY other case…I run what is fun…period. Let’s face it, in PvE you can run almost anything and get away with it…so have fun playing…just don’t let a group down that you are trying to help with a specific goal in mind…that’s just being considerate.

TBH i dont see how PS/EA is boring. Its not like comparing Shoutbow with a GS/Hammer build in sPvP (I admit shoutbow can be pretty boring).

Running PS/EA with GS Axe/Mace has lots of heavy hitting/fun moves and is quite immersive enough. 100blades, Whirlwind, Eviscerate, Crushing Blow, Tremor (on trash mobs). What build do you use that you feel is significantly more interesting/less boring?

I see now that maybe I have taken this topic a bit to seriously, but I felt good to get my opinion out even if it was rant-y or borderline idiotic.

The thing i feel that is boring with PS/EA is that, I played warrior because I liked that it was a hard hitting, loud, fearless brawler. With PS/EA it feels like it takes an bit of that away.

I find it boring too but then again I find playing warrior in groups boring in itself.

Can’t wait until the damage buffs so it can have good personal DPS again :>

“i find PS/EA boring”
changes traits but uses same weapons
“this is so much more fun”

I don’t find it boring, I just don’t take well to being told what and how to play by a bunch of demanding little pugs.

What is the difference between using PS/EA or not on a dungeon run anyway, 30sec? 60sec? 2 minutes on some longer harder paths? Unless you are trying to break speed records why does it matter? If 30 to 120 seconds is what ruins your gaming experience you got issues.

Julie Yann.5379:

I don’t find it boring, I just don’t take well to being told what and how to play by a bunch of demanding little pugs.

What is the difference between using PS/EA or not on a dungeon run anyway, 30sec? 60sec? 2 minutes on some longer harder paths? Unless you are trying to break speed records why does it matter? If 30 to 120 seconds is what ruins your gaming experience you got issues.

im not sure its just a 30s or 60s speed improvement. I have found that with PS/EA we get to kill the bosses faster which means pugs find it easier to manage their defensive cooldowns. When ive been on my guard and we had no PS/EA war (or any war) in party then fights last noticeably longer and inevitably someone would screw up and get killed. It would cascade from their to either we wipe or take even longer to finish fight because we were a man down.

Julie Yann.5379:

I don’t find it boring, I just don’t take well to being told what and how to play by a bunch of demanding little pugs.

What is the difference between using PS/EA or not on a dungeon run anyway, 30sec? 60sec? 2 minutes on some longer harder paths? Unless you are trying to break speed records why does it matter? If 30 to 120 seconds is what ruins your gaming experience you got issues.

Hey, your position is normal. There are plenty of people in the world who put their desires to do whatever the heck they want above the common good. I suppose you can get away with that forever if you really want to. Don’t feel surprised when people treat you as if you were a highly selfish person, though.

NikeEU.7690:

Julie Yann.5379:

I don’t find it boring, I just don’t take well to being told what and how to play by a bunch of demanding little pugs.

What is the difference between using PS/EA or not on a dungeon run anyway, 30sec? 60sec? 2 minutes on some longer harder paths? Unless you are trying to break speed records why does it matter? If 30 to 120 seconds is what ruins your gaming experience you got issues.

Hey, your position is normal. There are plenty of people in the world who put their desires to do whatever the heck they want above the common good. I suppose you can get away with that forever if you really want to. Don’t feel surprised when people treat you as if you were a highly selfish person, though.

The pug which is demanding you play a certain way is also putting his desires ahead of yours. He/she is just hiding it behind the “for the common good excuse”. This is the reason I don’t play with pugs anymore. The truth is, PS/EA are not needed to have a smooth timely run, people just like using it as a crutch for their incompetence.

Julie Yann.5379:

NikeEU.7690:

Julie Yann.5379:

I don’t find it boring, I just don’t take well to being told what and how to play by a bunch of demanding little pugs.

What is the difference between using PS/EA or not on a dungeon run anyway, 30sec? 60sec? 2 minutes on some longer harder paths? Unless you are trying to break speed records why does it matter? If 30 to 120 seconds is what ruins your gaming experience you got issues.

Hey, your position is normal. There are plenty of people in the world who put their desires to do whatever the heck they want above the common good. I suppose you can get away with that forever if you really want to. Don’t feel surprised when people treat you as if you were a highly selfish person, though.

The pug which is demanding you play a certain way is also putting his desires ahead of yours. He/she is just hiding it behind the “for the common good excuse”. This is the reason I don’t play with pugs anymore. The truth is, PS/EA are not needed to have a smooth timely run, people just like using it as a crutch for their incompetence.

Sure but if everyone agrees that at some level it will be the best and easiest way for the group to succeed, then why not do it? If you know its the best but choose not to do it anyway thats on you not them.

In the marketplace well all pursue our own selfish agenda, but it works out because a fair bargain for me is a fair bargain for you and its in both of our selfish interests to bargain fairly. So when you say he is being selfish by demanding PS, sure he is, but he is being selfish in a way that benefits everyone.

How about this: I assume you brought Banners right? What if you wanted to play 5 sig warrior and the pug demanded you bring banners. Would you have made this post? Would anyone be defending you? This isn’t in any appreciable way different at all. The only difference is the community has a very much stronger consensus that banners = good and 5 sig = bad so it’s much harder to justify selfishness in that area.

NikeEU.7690:

Julie Yann.5379:

NikeEU.7690:

Julie Yann.5379:

I don’t find it boring, I just don’t take well to being told what and how to play by a bunch of demanding little pugs.

What is the difference between using PS/EA or not on a dungeon run anyway, 30sec? 60sec? 2 minutes on some longer harder paths? Unless you are trying to break speed records why does it matter? If 30 to 120 seconds is what ruins your gaming experience you got issues.

Hey, your position is normal. There are plenty of people in the world who put their desires to do whatever the heck they want above the common good. I suppose you can get away with that forever if you really want to. Don’t feel surprised when people treat you as if you were a highly selfish person, though.

The pug which is demanding you play a certain way is also putting his desires ahead of yours. He/she is just hiding it behind the “for the common good excuse”. This is the reason I don’t play with pugs anymore. The truth is, PS/EA are not needed to have a smooth timely run, people just like using it as a crutch for their incompetence.

Sure but if everyone agrees that at some level it will be the best and easiest way for the group to succeed, then why not do it? If you know its the best but choose not to do it anyway thats on you not them.

In the marketplace well all pursue our own selfish agenda, but it works out because a fair bargain for me is a fair bargain for you and its in both of our selfish interests to bargain fairly. So when you say he is being selfish by demanding PS, sure he is, but he is being selfish in a way that benefits everyone.

How about this: I assume you brought Banners right? What if you wanted to play 5 sig warrior and the pug demanded you bring banners. Would you have made this post? Would anyone be defending you? This isn’t in any appreciable way different at all. The only difference is the community has a very much stronger consensus that banners = good and 5 sig = bad so it’s much harder to justify selfishness in that area.

You have a point, and lol at 5sig warrior. Those are bad even for solo play. My stance is, the only thing I owe the party is a smooth run. If the party is struggling, of course I will switch some traits around to provide more support but I do it on my own terms if I deem it necessary. If things are going well and we are clearing at a reasonable speed and nobody is wiping is it really needed? Should anybody have to pick something they don’t want to use just to please some stranger?

Julie Yann.5379:

NikeEU.7690:

Julie Yann.5379:

I don’t find it boring, I just don’t take well to being told what and how to play by a bunch of demanding little pugs.

What is the difference between using PS/EA or not on a dungeon run anyway, 30sec? 60sec? 2 minutes on some longer harder paths? Unless you are trying to break speed records why does it matter? If 30 to 120 seconds is what ruins your gaming experience you got issues.

Hey, your position is normal. There are plenty of people in the world who put their desires to do whatever the heck they want above the common good. I suppose you can get away with that forever if you really want to. Don’t feel surprised when people treat you as if you were a highly selfish person, though.

The pug which is demanding you play a certain way is also putting his desires ahead of yours. He/she is just hiding it behind the “for the common good excuse”. This is the reason I don’t play with pugs anymore. The truth is, PS/EA are not needed to have a smooth timely run, people just like using it as a crutch for their incompetence.

Also…don’t play with jerks. When I pug I talk to the people who are in the party. If they won’t talk to me, I drop them, because its never fun when no one talks in chat, na dthen some 13 year old rants at everyone and then rage quits because we’re not able to complete (insert whatever goal you like here).

If a party says “hey lets play whatever and have fun”, I usually run Axe/Mace – GS spec’d for DPS…if they ask for some Might generation, I’ll gladly run a PS version. If they ask for some health support I run a healing shouts build…its all about what the pug you’re joining is trying to accomplish and how organized they are trying to be. If they are jerks and say “PS/EA or get out”…I gladly leave…cause they are jerks.

And lets get one thing straight…pugs are not about speed runs…pugs are pugs…they want to achieve a common goal…usually…trolls not withstanding. I have often joined a pug that is getting organized to do story-mode of a dungeon for 2-3 of the people in the party. But now I am off topic…

To sum up…don’t play with jerks who order you to play a certain build…but be polite enough to aks what the pug you’re joining is trying to do and be willing to be a supportive player in reaching that goal. Running PS/EA is often a great way to do that, unless other options are available based on party make-up.

Thorfinnr Sleggja.1209:

I have to admit I am a little bitter towards pugs. I remember in the “full zerk, ping gear or kick” CoF days several times I would start my own party (not demanding specific build) just to have a couple people join and start asking for gear pings. Needless to say, I got kicked out of my own party on multiple occasions because I refused to ping gear in a party I created. One of the reason I am so anti meta, I believe meta is toxic.

I run Phalanx Strength/Empowered Allies with PUGs not because I like it but because it speeds up the whole dungeon/fractal game and removes much of the frustration if the other PUG group members are ‘1’ button spammers.

That being said, play how you want but the ‘hate’ is likely due to their own lazy ‘1’ button spamming. I see it all the time when running PUG fractals (especially for the daily). It’s basically a general attitude that Warriors/Guardians have to carry them because they’ve never really learned their own class and see Warriors/Guardians effective without (a perceived) much effort.

I wonder when these people are going to realize that they are arguing with the best PVE warrior in the game.

finalhero.4028:

I wonder when these people are going to realize that they are arguing with the best PVE warrior in the game.

Goku isn’t posting here.

@Julie Yann:
What is amusing about people linking their gear is that you can simply link gear in your bags or that someone else is wearing (assuming same skin). People did that all the time when there was Magic Find gear … they’d have their zerk gear in their bags and link it while actually wearing the Magic Find gear.

I don’t think it’s the meta that is toxic. I think it is various gamers that are toxic. Some people simply don’t treat others like human beings when playing and at the slightest misstep they jump on that person instead of saying something like “hey, we asked for a meta build, can you please respect that”.

On the flip side, you have people who are so anti-meta that they either try to troll people asking for it.

People need to just realize different people have different goals. It helps to just communicate these and people should be fine.

It goes back to what I’ve said earlier … just as people aren’t obligated to play the way others want them to, others are not obligated to play with people that don’t play the way they are desired to.

Simple Examples:

• When I’m short on time, I aim for meta builds in a speed run. I hope everyone respects that and moves on but if they don’t, they have no reason to be in the group.
• When I’m just relaxing, I don’t care and everyone does what they want

I communicate these to whomever I’m playing with. I also know from the people I play with who prefers to do what. Some hate speed runs. Some only do speed runs.

There is no “right” answer. People just need to think, communicate, and understand … sadly, that’s asking for too much from the players that are still maturing … all that testosterone clouds your brain (heck, I’d go back in time and smack my younger self).

I think its lame to ask pugs to run specific builds. I usually post lfgs along the lines of “p123,exp 80s, 3k ap+”. Experienced players can make suboptimal builds work pretty well. But a beginner running a meta build is still gona be kitten poor. So I never try to tell anyone what to run, but I do require them to be experienced.

With that said, I always run ps/ea/inspiring banners. I like that it lets other players run their own play styles pretty smoothly, plus my experience is that its more active.

I noticed a lot of people consider ps war to be less active. I don’t know if I am missing something. Ps warrior gets to actually use its class mechanic (burst skills are fun) while running the same gs/axe+mace rotation, 100% banner uptime means you can carry banners between fights giving you access to swiftness/fury/blast. In addition, you can even stagger the times of your banners, allowing you to have both banners even if a team mate isn’t helping you carry them. Often giving you two blasts at the start of encounters.

The problem is for me: That groups are only concerned about what build the warrior is running. Nobody cares if the thief is running venomshare, or the necro is running ground targeted wells or Plague signet. Many just want the Ranger to call their pet back, toss a frost spirit and pew pew pew.

When a group fails, its either the warrior or guard’s fault, not the engi, or the thief or the Mesmer. Eles gets some grief but nobody gets it like warrior and I still don’t understand why.

If a thief can run whatever—why can’t warriors? I’ve run “bad” (rifle, warrior runes, soldier gear)builds on purpose in high level fractals with guildies just to see if it’s the player, or the build. Guess what, we completed those fractals (Mai Trin even) just fine. I’ve done this many times in pvp and obtained wins with good scores.

In short: It’s the player, not the build or runes or sigils. And if warriors are held to a certain build, then throw it back on the other professions. R U (thief) running venomshare? No? KICK!!

Those sounds like stupid groups that don’t use meta because they understand it but use meta because it’s what smarter people told them to use.

Smart players are well aware of what each class is supposed to be doing to do their utmost in each bit of content.

While you are correct that it is largely the player … the build does provide caps on what the player can and can’t do. This is where builds come into play.

Meta builds aside, another example of the build being important is the Grawl instance in fractals. If your Guardian/Mesmer/Thief/etc. don’t take skills for helping handle the abundance of projectiles from the elementals spawned at 75%/50%/25% … then there is something wrong unless it was discussed beforehand that it would be sufficient for just a few groupmates to spec to deal with it.

Using the right tool for the job and using that tool well is what is expected in good groups.