Guild Wars 2

We need our sustain spread around like other classes have theirs, our traits are mostly lack-luster compared to what other classes receive.

We need a Grandmaster Sustain trait. This would allow us to spread our healing around so its not locked to single skills.

The reason for example: “Healing Signet.” gets so much attention, is because of the raw healing it gives, if it gave less healing then our sustain is nerfed to the ground, because we really have nothing else right now. Adrenal Health is alright, however since we are constantly using our adrenaline, the skill becomes worthless for a little bit then decent, it fluctuates so much its not reliable.

Other classes have so much sustain going on, its not easy to see where there sustain comes from: Stealth, Death Shroud, Evade-Spam, Protection, Blind-Spam, Aegis-Spam, Vigor-Spam… Warriors don’t have any of that, that is why we NEED heavy healing.

Defense Grandmaster

Adrenal Recovery
Gain health when you gain a strike of adrenaline.
Health per strike: 114 (0.02)?

(Heals for 50% less in PvP.)

Why is this trait good?

It works well with our current traits!
Warrior has many traits that make you gain more adrenaline, however since we cap out so quickly it is kind of pointless. This would also make *Axe offhand and mainhand have its own role, currently the Axe is worthless to use over the Mace and the Sword, it has no mobility and the only thing it has over Mace and Sword is it gains Adrenaline quickly, however there is really no reason to do that right now.

It has counter-play!
You can prevent the warrior from gaining adrenaline by making his burst miss, you also counter it with things like poison and blind and aegis. It is a very balanced trait since you can only gain up to 30 strikes in a set amount of time. Unless you use long bow, however if you do you are losing valuable CC and Mobility.

It would add a ton of new builds!
Axe/Axe and Longbow is what I see right now, this build would have no mobility and no crowd control, but be more tanky then the other warriors. I think we need more variety.

I hope a developer or someone reads this, I don’t want my class to be horrible like it was several months ago. Thank you if you do.

So we would go from a mandatory 20 in Defense to 30 in Defense? Nice.

And of course, Hammer wouldn’t be getting any of that benefit.

Also, this would be ridiculously OP in PvE. You’re talking about 3,420 hp every 7.75-10s. That’s 342-441 hp/s.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Merciless_Hammer

I don’t see how its OP in PvE, however it matches what other traits can have. So I don’t care about your comments any-longer. A warrior could not have this trait and merciless hammer, and cleansing ire.

Anything that improves the warrior a bit is suddenly OP, there is no arguing or fighting against you. So please leave I don’t like it when you come on every single one of my idea threads and leave useless garbage that just starts fights with me, that is pretty much trolling.

There is a constructive way to say something is powerful, and the way your doing it isn’t constructive, its actually rather rude.

Daecollo.9578:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Merciless_Hammer

I don’t see how its OP in PvE, however it matches what other traits can have. So I don’t care about your comments any-longer. A warrior could not have this trait and merciless hammer, and cleansing ire.

Anything that improves the warrior a bit is suddenly OP, there is no arguing or fighting against you. So please leave I don’t like it when you come on every single one of my idea threads and leave useless garbage that just starts fights with me, that is pretty much trolling.

There is a constructive way to say something is powerful, and the way your doing it isn’t constructive, its actually rather rude.

daecello I actually like that idea. idk if I would put it as a grand master trait though buti can see problem devolping from it. it would need a limit put on it or oh god would it be op. I gain health when i’m hit I hit I gain health. flurry and furious would be hell over powered.

but once that limit is in place you waste healing potential.

you nailed a major issue with healing signet left out a major part of it. healing signet has to be so powerful for sustain because that is literally all it is. it’s got no real spike heal to it like ad rush infact it has no spike at all really. it’s why I highly doubt we see signet of healing get (balanced) any time soon maybe a longer cd but the worst ting you can do is use it as it is.

why would this be op.

1 strike = 114
1 strike =.5 second (avg)
cleansinge ire = 1 strike

that’s 2 strikes every half a second possible or 400 health a second. count that with the 400+ you get with sig of healing adrenal health then you are becoming op even.

all I have to do is use my burst i’ll imboile you with leg spec savage leap and flurry you for another 1k of healing in no time flat.

wildfang.9670:

Daecollo.9578:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Merciless_Hammer

I don’t see how its OP in PvE, however it matches what other traits can have. So I don’t care about your comments any-longer. A warrior could not have this trait and merciless hammer, and cleansing ire.

Anything that improves the warrior a bit is suddenly OP, there is no arguing or fighting against you. So please leave I don’t like it when you come on every single one of my idea threads and leave useless garbage that just starts fights with me, that is pretty much trolling.

There is a constructive way to say something is powerful, and the way your doing it isn’t constructive, its actually rather rude.

daecello I actually like that idea. idk if I would put it as a grand master trait though buti can see problem devolping from it. it would need a limit put on it or oh god would it be op. I gain health when i’m hit I hit I gain health. flurry and furious would be hell over powered.

but once that limit is in place you waste healing potential.

you nailed a major issue with healing signet left out a major part of it. healing signet has to be so powerful for sustain because that is literally all it is. it’s got no real spike heal to it like ad rush infact it has no spike at all really. it’s why I highly doubt we see signet of healing get (balanced) any time soon maybe a longer cd but the worst ting you can do is use it as it is.

The problem is, other classes get evades/grandmaster sustain traits more powerful then what I suggested in this thread, protection, evades, blinds, aegis, weakness spam, perma-vigor…

Olba.5376:

So we would go from a mandatory 20 in Defense

“mandatory 20 in defense”? How bad are you?
So before the dogged march/cleansing ire addition you were a disaster at this class I imagine.

Never used defense line in my life, and I feel OP as hell.
If conditions kill you before you kill the enemy you’re bad.

Daecollo.9578:

wildfang.9670:

Daecollo.9578:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Merciless_Hammer

I don’t see how its OP in PvE, however it matches what other traits can have. So I don’t care about your comments any-longer. A warrior could not have this trait and merciless hammer, and cleansing ire.

Anything that improves the warrior a bit is suddenly OP, there is no arguing or fighting against you. So please leave I don’t like it when you come on every single one of my idea threads and leave useless garbage that just starts fights with me, that is pretty much trolling.

There is a constructive way to say something is powerful, and the way your doing it isn’t constructive, its actually rather rude.

daecello I actually like that idea. idk if I would put it as a grand master trait though buti can see problem devolping from it. it would need a limit put on it or oh god would it be op. I gain health when i’m hit I hit I gain health. flurry and furious would be hell over powered.

but once that limit is in place you waste healing potential.

you nailed a major issue with healing signet left out a major part of it. healing signet has to be so powerful for sustain because that is literally all it is. it’s got no real spike heal to it like ad rush infact it has no spike at all really. it’s why I highly doubt we see signet of healing get (balanced) any time soon maybe a longer cd but the worst ting you can do is use it as it is.

The problem is, other classes get evades/grandmaster sustain traits more powerful then what I suggested in this thread, protection, evades, blinds, aegis, weakness spam, perma-vigor…

spiked armor and defy pain don’t seem like they’d be bad traits although I have to concede never used them 20 is the highest I go into the defense line.

wildfang.9670:

Daecollo.9578:

wildfang.9670:

Daecollo.9578:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Merciless_Hammer

I don’t see how its OP in PvE, however it matches what other traits can have. So I don’t care about your comments any-longer. A warrior could not have this trait and merciless hammer, and cleansing ire.

Anything that improves the warrior a bit is suddenly OP, there is no arguing or fighting against you. So please leave I don’t like it when you come on every single one of my idea threads and leave useless garbage that just starts fights with me, that is pretty much trolling.

There is a constructive way to say something is powerful, and the way your doing it isn’t constructive, its actually rather rude.

daecello I actually like that idea. idk if I would put it as a grand master trait though buti can see problem devolping from it. it would need a limit put on it or oh god would it be op. I gain health when i’m hit I hit I gain health. flurry and furious would be hell over powered.

but once that limit is in place you waste healing potential.

you nailed a major issue with healing signet left out a major part of it. healing signet has to be so powerful for sustain because that is literally all it is. it’s got no real spike heal to it like ad rush infact it has no spike at all really. it’s why I highly doubt we see signet of healing get (balanced) any time soon maybe a longer cd but the worst ting you can do is use it as it is.

The problem is, other classes get evades/grandmaster sustain traits more powerful then what I suggested in this thread, protection, evades, blinds, aegis, weakness spam, perma-vigor…

spiked armor and defy pain don’t seem like they’d be bad traits although I have to concede never used them 20 is the highest I go into the defense line.

Spiked Armor is pretty bad, Defy Pain is just lulzy.

This idea wouldn’t be bad, at all.

But the issue is, you can’t slap it on top of all what has been done in latest months to improve warrior survivability.
You’re a couple of months late, now warrior doesn’t need more sustain, actually, they need to get shaved a bit the one they’ve received.

Again, not a bad idea, but you can’t add it to Adreanl Health, Healing Signet, Dogged March (Regen), ZerkerStance/EndurePain.
Period.

It’s Daecollo, guys.
To him Warriors need even better healing compared to what they already have.
800hp regen per second on cleric is definitely not enough. It is well known that other profession can regenerate passively over 2k per second.

I like the idea. People are just complaining about HS because they “think” that it dont have counterplay (poison, physical burst). With that trait you propose people would had a lot more counterplay (poison, evades, dodges, blinds, ports, CC and so on).
If they nerf healing signet (i dont think they will do that) they could give us something like that to compensate.

Theoretically a warrior can get perma protection with a boon duration build.

Just saying….

Wanze.8410:

Theoretically a warrior can get perma protection with a boon duration build.

Just saying….

Where? How?

Make a video!

Daecollo.9578:

Other classes have so much sustain going on, its not easy to see where there sustain comes from: Stealth, Death Shroud, Evade-Spam, Protection, Blind-Spam, Aegis-Spam, Vigor-Spam… Warriors don’t have any of that, that is why we NEED heavy healing.

Daecollo.9578:

Stealth, Death Shroud, Evade-Spam, Protection, Blind-Spam, Aegis-Spam, Vigor-Spam

Daecollo.9578:

Aegis-Spam

aegis what? are you playing the same game as I?

This will just make the skill a must have. I kinda hate how warrior need to have melandru+lemongrass to be effective in WvW, I don’t want it in my trait as well(actually we do with dogged and ire).

Actually… I found something pretty in what you said here…

Vigor spam

I love this concept, instead of change in trait why don’t you ask for a sigil that grant vigor on crit. Let’s say 70% chance to gain 1 or 2s of vigor with kitten iCD. It would be a better addition in this game than all your unbalanced changes.

Lol Aegis spam.

If you’re getting “Block” when fighting a guardian whenever you try to use a powerful attack, he’s seriously outplaying you.

K U T M.4539:

Lol Aegis spam.

If you’re getting “Block” when fighting a guardian whenever you try to use a powerful attack, he’s seriously outplaying you.

Try playing Dark Souls. Blocking is pretty easy.

F3 and Focus ‘5’ http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shield_of_Wrath
That is four attacks you can block with 2 abilities*.

Yes…on 45 and 60s cd untraited…fyi: Not a single warrior weapon skill goes over 30s cd. Most guardians would kill for shield stance on their shield (or any other weapon).

Daecollo, you’re idea, as usual, is HORRIBLY overpowered.

I understand you’re very opinionated, but I’ll try once more to explain WHY I think you should change your post style…

Your CONCEPTS are not bad. Some are even good! For example, I myself was suggesting we link adrenaline gain to healing capability, way back before they just buffed our #6 button.

And I really liked the idea you had where we change Greatsword #4 from a Throw-Cripple, to a Pull effect that reels in a single target with a chain.

But your ability to balance numbers is horrendous!
No, really, its trash!

Health per strike: 114 (0.02)?

Leave that sort of line out of your future posts. Seriously. I get the feeling you’ll have a lot more positive feedback if you post slightly vaguer ideas, IE lacking your brand of mathematical balance.

Furthermore, you fail to understand how certain interactions can be abused.

For example, if it heals per strike gained, does using zerker stance, or fury sig, suddenly proc 30 adrenal heals? Does the furious trait (x3 adren on crit) suddenly triple its effectiveness? Does swapping weapons every 5 seconds grant a x5 heal?

By now Daecollo, you must have noticed a pattern, many of your idea threads have people calling your ideas OP and putting them down, yes? Thats how you can limit that.
Dont try to work the numbers unless you’re a math balance expert(pro-tip: You’re NOT).
Try to consider how the traits may cross-interact and produce OP side effects.

Dand.8231:

Daecollo, you’re idea, as usual, is HORRIBLY overpowered.

I understand you’re very opinionated, but I’ll try once more to explain WHY I think you should change your post style…

Your CONCEPTS are not bad. Some are even good! For example, I myself was suggesting we link adrenaline gain to healing capability, way back before they just buffed our #6 button.

And I really liked the idea you had where we change Greatsword #4 from a Throw-Cripple, to a Pull effect that reels in a single target with a chain.

But your ability to balance numbers is horrendous!
No, really, its trash!

Health per strike: 114 (0.02)?

Leave that sort of line out of your future posts. Seriously. I get the feeling you’ll have a lot more positive feedback if you post slightly vaguer ideas, IE lacking your brand of mathematical balance.

Furthermore, you fail to understand how certain interactions can be abused.

For example, if it heals per strike gained, does using zerker stance, or fury sig, suddenly proc 30 adrenal heals? Does the furious trait (x3 adren on crit) suddenly triple its effectiveness? Does swapping weapons every 5 seconds grant a x5 heal?

By now Daecollo, you must have noticed a pattern, many of your idea threads have people calling your ideas OP and putting them down, yes? Thats how you can limit that.
Dont try to work the numbers unless you’re a math balance expert(pro-tip: You’re NOT).
Try to consider how the traits may cross-interact and produce OP side effects.

Dand wins!

I do like the Concept, so what if the amount of Healing would just be reduced to make it not OP?
Does any think the Concept is bad?
If the amount of Healing would be reduced, it could even stay as a Minor Trait.

It should replace Adrenal Health, then, and altered to roughly heal the same amount of hp/s. This would encourage warriors to spent their adrenaline instead of saving it.

Iavra.8510:

It should replace Adrenal Health, then, and altered to roughly heal the same amount of hp/s. This would encourage warriors to spent their adrenaline instead of saving it.

Probably, but Warriors still need a Grandmaster sustain trait like the other classes receive.

Depends. Warriors got a lot of sustain in lower placed traits and are therefore more open in terms of build diversity. Mesmer builds, for example, are quite fixed. A shatter basically needs to be 0/20/0/0/30, a condi needs that 30 in Chaos for PU etc.

PU is also very much the only sustain trait that is regularly taken by mesmers, the rest need to be -CD traits because of generally high cds (most likely a leftover from when IC was easier to achieve)

Apart from that, there already seem to be some grandmaster traits that are doing what you want to:

- Defy Pain: Granted, this only triggers every 60s, but you can’t deny that it’s quite powerful and often saves lifes when getting ambushed by someone.

- Inspiring Battle Standard: I once fought a condition warrior beneath his banner on my condi thief. I won, but the fight took forever and would be impossible to win without poison. That said, i could have leave the fight anytime if i wanted, since he didn’t seem to leave the healing area ^^

- Vigorous Shouts: Healing is obiously some kind of sustain ^^ That said, warrior shouts for themselves don’t do much in terms of sustain (that’s guardian terrain), so you most likely will prefer stances and signets, then.

I generally don’t see warriors getting protection since it’s more of a help for classes with lower armor/hp. I could imagine some defensive counterpart for Berserker’s Power, mitigating 3/6/9% damage, depending on the amount of adrenaline built, but i wouldn’t really want to see this while retaining warrior’s superior mobility.

Daecollo.9578:

Wanze.8410:

Theoretically a warrior can get perma protection with a boon duration build.

Just saying….

Where? How?

Make a video!

I dont make videos.
But to get perma protection with a boon duration build, you would need to have weakness on you to convert into protection, everytime your traited warhorn skills are off cooldown.

Wanze.8410:

Daecollo.9578:

Wanze.8410:

Theoretically a warrior can get perma protection with a boon duration build.

Just saying….

Where? How?

Make a video!

I dont make videos.
But to get perma protection with a boon duration build, you would need to have weakness on you to convert into protection, everytime your traited warhorn skills are off cooldown.

Not viable or good. Your completely relying on your opponent and RNG.

Iavra.8510:

Depends. Warriors got a lot of sustain in lower placed traits and are therefore more open in terms of build diversity. Mesmer builds, for example, are quite fixed. A shatter basically needs to be 0/20/0/0/30, a condi needs that 30 in Chaos for PU etc.

PU is also very much the only sustain trait that is regularly taken by mesmers, the rest need to be -CD traits because of generally high cds (most likely a leftover from when IC was easier to achieve)

Apart from that, there already seem to be some grandmaster traits that are doing what you want to:

- Defy Pain: Granted, this only triggers every 60s, but you can’t deny that it’s quite powerful and often saves lifes when getting ambushed by someone.

- Inspiring Battle Standard: I once fought a condition warrior beneath his banner on my condi thief. I won, but the fight took forever and would be impossible to win without poison. That said, i could have leave the fight anytime if i wanted, since he didn’t seem to leave the healing area ^^

- Vigorous Shouts: Healing is obiously some kind of sustain ^^ That said, warrior shouts for themselves don’t do much in terms of sustain (that’s guardian terrain), so you most likely will prefer stances and signets, then.

I generally don’t see warriors getting protection since it’s more of a help for classes with lower armor/hp. I could imagine some defensive counterpart for Berserker’s Power, mitigating 3/6/9% damage, depending on the amount of adrenaline built, but i wouldn’t really want to see this while retaining warrior’s superior mobility.

Defy Pain is worthless against condition damage, not worth 30 points.

Inspiring Battle Standard is a joke, water fields are much better in terms of regeneration and a lot more mobile.

Vigorous Shouts is /ok/? However it is more of “support” not really a sustain trait.

Healing is sustain, however you look at it…

Regarding Defy Pain being useless against conditions: I think we agree, that condi builds are a tad too powerful right now. On the other side, it is very (and i mean VERY) hard to kill a warrior with direct damage right now so i think it’s good to have this sort of weakness.