Guild Wars 2

I’ve seen some discussions on the GW2 subreddit regarding warrior PvE (dungeons, mostly) which seem to assume that you’re using greatsword for DPS.

This seems a little odd since the last time I did TTK tests in the mists, axe auto-attack beat out HB by something like 11%.

Certainly, GS has a somewhat larger radius, but I never seem to encounter situations where axe radius isn’t enough but GS radius would be.

GS does also inflict more vulnerability (especially since it looks like mace 4 may be a slight detriment to axe DPS; axe 2 seems to be a small win), so it’s plausible that the extra DPS from the rest of your group might be enough to make up for the personal DPS loss.

Am I missing something? Is GS actually a better choice than axe/something in non-open-world PvE?

As far as I know (Not accounting for Vulnerability effecting team members) GS does more DPS than Axe IF you don’t have to interrupt a HB (Due to dodging something or needing to heal)

Axe does more consistent damage and allows movement during it’s highest damage rotation (#1 > #1 > #1)

This assumes differing builds based off of the weapons (For example Arms 20 for Might on crit with GS whereas an Axe build is less likely to put points into Arms)

Though this is purely based off of; my time leveling, some messing around with builds in the Mists and this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WOonDJfRDk

edruviransu.1029:

I’ve seen some discussions on the GW2 subreddit regarding warrior PvE (dungeons, mostly) which seem to assume that you’re using greatsword for DPS.

This seems a little odd since the last time I did TTK tests in the mists, axe auto-attack beat out HB by something like 11%.

Certainly, GS has a somewhat larger radius, but I never seem to encounter situations where axe radius isn’t enough but GS radius would be.

GS does also inflict more vulnerability (especially since it looks like mace 4 may be a slight detriment to axe DPS; axe 2 seems to be a small win), so it’s plausible that the extra DPS from the rest of your group might be enough to make up for the personal DPS loss.

Am I missing something? Is GS actually a better choice than axe/something in non-open-world PvE?

GS is a great weapon, no doubt, but so many noobs are so keen to defend it as the best weapon. It is not. Every weapon is situational.
That being said, I personally believe that GS is one of the worse choices overall for end-game / fractal.
With all mobs 1~2 hitting you, it’s far better to go range or axe/shield.

That being said, there are a few people that are exceptions. My friend goes full berserk GS and just plays at a level that less than 1% of people will ever reach. I simply go ranged and I avoid all that

Axe does beat out GS overall from my experience. You simply don’t have the time to be rooted to go through a full HB. People also fail to take into account that every second HB is on your bar unused, you are also losing out on a ton of DPS.
It’s unfortunate.

Well, axe winds up on top if and this is a big if – you don’t count in the greatsword traits. With said traits, greatsword is better. Personally I run with a GS mainly, but with axe/shield in offhand – which works out rather well.

Raynil.2634:

Well, axe winds up on top if and this is a big if – you don’t count in the greatsword traits. With said traits, greatsword is better. Personally I run with a GS mainly, but with axe/shield in offhand – which works out rather well.

Oops, pressed the wrong button. What is the +1? Lol

Anyways, I disagree. I think it’s obvious that any GS user would have it traited, but the big IF is IF YOU CAN USE HB. The answer is often no in a lot of end-game content where being rooted that long = death.

Raynil.2634:

Well, axe winds up on top if and this is a big if – you don’t count in the greatsword traits. With said traits, greatsword is better. Personally I run with a GS mainly, but with axe/shield in offhand – which works out rather well.

My tests seem to indicate that the traits only bring GS (with maximum HB usage) to the same DPS as axe (assuming the axe is also traited optimally). I’m also surprised to notice from rerunning some of my tests that axe is actually about the same average vulnerability with its optimal rotation (axe 2 on cooldown) and traits as GS.

Axe-mace beats GS in DPS with like 10%. Even with full HB channel. I didn’t calculate that (someone else did), but I know it is true from experience.

Axe easily out-DPS GS.
Axe auto is 10%++ more DPS than HB without considering Dual Wielding trait.
Even if HB has no cooldown Axe would still outDPS it.
Let alone Axe can get 8 vuln immediately (if mace offhand) or 360 degrees DPS if axe offhand.

I run with axe+mace\axe as off-hands. And feel really comfortable that way.
GS is nice weapon, but it is:
1) Overused. I don’t want to be yet another GS warrior, rolled to farm cof;
2) HB is kinda hard to use in a lot of situations (not to mention that it looks really stupid – swinging a heavy 2h sword like that) and gets you vulnerable.

Also GS damage is deceptive. You get a lot of it as a burst from HB, but over time it’s not that much. Though a lot of warriors use GS just because they like to see big numbers on screen and don’t care about the sustained DPS.

I really wasn’t aware that axes did so much damage when compared to greatsword. I just started using the axe because the greatsword just felt way too situational. I’m the type of player that can’t stop moving, and HB was just stupid for me. I kept interrupting it even if the mobs weren’t moving. In pvp it was 60x worse. I never got one off unless the person was rooted or afk. I just don’t see the value in the highest damage the weapon has being so situtional and requiring you to root yourself in a game that basically requires you to keep moving at end game pve content. I’m glad to know my choice to go axes made some mathematical sense as well, haha.

People use Greatsword for the damage + mobility and the one built in evade. Going Axe/Mace you trade your two mobility skills + evade for a ranged knock down. Some argue that Guild Wars 2 is built around mobility, hence why a lot of Warriors use Greatsword over Axe/Mace.

For PvE I would say it honestly doesn’t matter what you take. I run with Greatsword now, but I used Axe/Shield first. I can say my damage went up in dungeons because now I can count on a evade from Whirlwind Attack and not solely rely on my dodges which means I can stay in Melee range longer to stack more vulnerability with auto attacks hitting at around 2.1k a critical.

I would refer you to: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Video-Guides-To-all-Explorable-Mode-Dungeons/first#post499850

In this post at the bottom of the first post you will find the builds he uses. If you go through his video library he did some dps tests that i found interesting and informative.

i hardly doubt you can outDPS the GS with any weapon
forcefull greatsword keep you to over 15 stacks of might even on high lvl fractals , at bosses you stay at over 20 stacks of might, wich will add you 25% extra damage
HB root is not an problem unless you solo , you can use hb constantly when agro is on another party member.when agro is on you, you will not facetank the mob with axe either on high lvl fractals , so persoanly i do not see the problem in HB root.
you also got 1 gap closer and 2 escape skills, wich can help you to switch betwen melle /range every time you lose agro and do 1 hb every 10 seconds.

I use Greatsword and Axe!

Might has a cap of 25. That’s really easy to get from party buffs without any GS traits.

Isslair.4908:

Might has a cap of 25. That’s really easy to get from party buffs without any GS traits.

Not with pugs it isn’t.

It’s a safer bet to count on might from your own skills and traits than party members. Aside from Warriors and Elementalists, there’s very few ways to gain more than a stack of might from another player.

I prefer axe/something myself, but I don’t notice a terrible difference between axe/x or greatsword. So I slot both.

Forceful greatsword makes GS the biggest dps beast from warrior weapons. If you keep contact with the mobs you’ll stay at around perma 25 stacks of might, ofc certain party compositions can spike you up to 20-25, but that’s only for a moment. With this setup you’re keeping perma fury and 22-25 stacks of might on you throughout the fight, that’s where the imba damage comes from and ofc the added bonus of 2 sources for vulna and bleeds on crit. Although axe is good if you’re running hybrid and not the full glass build, it doesn’t come even close to GS in a 20/30/0/0/20 setup. Utility wise I personally prefer GS, 2 excellent mobility skills and one of them is basically an extra dodge with high AoE damage (I’ve seen it hit up to 18k+ on alpha, usual is around 10k), a “skillshot” aoe from bladetrail that cripples a group and does a decent damage. And ofcourse the frontal cleave 100b that just destroys groups and bosses all the same. Personal best is around 34k on CoE golem boss, average is around 24-27k, low-end non crits are around 19-20k. Axe is a decent tanky/hybrid powerbuild weapon against mobile targets, but on its own it has very little utility. Axe&shield/mace are more suitable as 2ndary set for eviscerate, an opener or for a tanky powerbuild in pvp.

For PvE, Greatsword. Simply because of hundred blades. AI doesn’t dodge it, and a full HB to the face is arguably the single highest damage dealer in the game.

Axe has higher auto-attack and “mobile” damage.

It’s better if you duel wield GS.

Most Speedruns Groups can stack 20Stacks Might or more, for all partymembers.

For example 2Warriors, 2 Guards 1 Mesmer. 2*3 (For greater Justice)+Both Guards with empowering Might (5 Stacks standart). Additional Might (Virtues, Weaponswitch) or Warbanner.
And u have got your Might even with an Axe Build.

U can use Axe/Sword (4 is a Hardhitter, let your Enemy Bleed and pull your Sword out before the debuff will end). And 5 is a nice blockingskill with low CD.
Or Axe/Maxe, oder Axe/Axe/Shield/Warhorn (13 of 20Seconds Vigor….)

Im trying to find a Build to use both Weapons, im testing around with 30/0/0/10/30, 20/25/0/10/15, 20/25/0/0/25. Or some others. To figure out how i can use HB (on CD 6 1/2 or 8 sec) and then switch to my Axe for stronger Autoattacks.

I rly don´t know which build is now the best, it´s not easy to figure it out.

For testing GS DPS, I sure as hell hope you’re using Whirlwind Attack into walls or combo’d with gap closers. WA has something like +50% to +100% the DPS of HB.

That aside, I’d use Axe for dungeon or grinding PvE. GS is good for solo PvE for the mobility, but the mobility isn’t very relevant for grinding fights. Dodging is also less punitive to Axe DPS, as others have noted.

It completely depends on the situation – if you’re in a place you can lay in 100B and WW (I’ll purposely let myself get hit by cripples and roots with ‘Mobile Strikes’ off in PvE to make WW an in place evasion DPS move), simply nothing compares. However in any situation where you can’t lay in HB and WW, then Axe is better. When you can lay in 6 attacks in 1.75 seconds vs 3 in 1.5 of pretty much any other weapon, you have to have big hits to close that DPS race.

Honestly, I’d say pick what fits your playstyle. GS gives you the big fun numbers, mobility moves and can be situationally the best. Axe gives you more reliable DPS and while it lacks mobility moves, it’s DPS doesn’t suffer from active movement. Or you can just say screw the meta game, and play what you want as I still hold that the Warrior is one of the few classes with no sucky weapons.

you forget perma furry with gs wich can apply more then 20% flat DPS
i’ve tryed today stack furry with GS and i reach at 3 minutes furry stack only from arcing slice spam and signet of rage untill my target died (an champ in fractals)

Rayya.2591:

you forget perma furry with gs wich can apply more then 20% flat DPS
i’ve tryed today stack furry with GS and i reach at 3 minutes furry stack only from arcing slice spam and signet of rage untill my target died (an champ in fractals)

I believe people have tested that out, and even with that, axe DPS comes ahead lol

I’m sorry but i’d have to spam skill #1 on axe like 15 times to equal the 15-20k done by 100B, 100B takes 2.5 seconds to channel… I would really like to meet someone who can spam axe auto attack more than even 10 times in 2.5 seconds. Being rooted isnt all that bad either providing you run Endure pain.

Actualy, its about mobility . 100B is chaneling skill and if u cancel it by moving you will get few hits and thats all, while axe do almost same dmg and you can move freely, you can even dodge while using skill 5 on axe/axe. A lot warriors will rather die then cancel 100B. Tbh for my play style axes are way better since i like to move a lot that contribute to my survivbilty. Im almost always alive and bring great benefit to the group by DPS.

Well i run full zerker Armour and balance trinkets (solari, Sunari, triforge, 2x karka shell earring) Axe’s hit for about 1k with auto attack, and thats on a crit. 100B hits for 15-20k, easily.

I think you guys are seriously overlooking the Perma Fury and Perma 25 stacks of might that are easily obtainable in my GS build.

I tell you, 875 power + condition damage (from 25 stacks of might) is not to be overlooked.

CookMETEnder.7582:

Rayya.2591:

you forget perma furry with gs wich can apply more then 20% flat DPS
i’ve tryed today stack furry with GS and i reach at 3 minutes furry stack only from arcing slice spam and signet of rage untill my target died (an champ in fractals)

I believe people have tested that out, and even with that, axe DPS comes ahead lol

if you say so, and your axe can bring more then 30k dps in 3 seconds , then i am out of arguments
good luck with your strong axe

Rayya.2591:

CookMETEnder.7582:

Rayya.2591:

you forget perma furry with gs wich can apply more then 20% flat DPS
i’ve tryed today stack furry with GS and i reach at 3 minutes furry stack only from arcing slice spam and signet of rage untill my target died (an champ in fractals)

I believe people have tested that out, and even with that, axe DPS comes ahead lol

if you say so, and your axe can bring more then 30k dps in 3 seconds , then i am out of arguments
good luck with your strong axe

Yes hb can hit the highest in game but what about your auto attack.? hits about the same as axe but twice(maybe 3x) as slow. I don’t have the highest damage but I can get 21k dmg in 3 seconds.

i don’t use much auto attack , skill rotation betwen hb and whirlwind/arcing slice makes me use 5-6 auto attacks / 6 seconds

Whirlwind Attack also counts as an evade.

You’re immune to damage when spinning.

That makes it better than Hundred Blades for me in PvE (see a boss winding up an attack? Spin through him!)

So, in case anyone’s wondering, the Axe1 chain is around 14% stronger raw dps than hundred blades, which is in turn about 2% stronger than GS autoattacks. The 3.5 second (e.g. slow as hell) channel really kills it.

The highest DPS ability is whirlwind attack, due to its insane speed and good damage in melee. Only caveat is that you have to turn back around and re-engage, which tends to stall the dps by a half second. This can be mitigated, however.

Eviscerate isn’t as good as WA, but is significantly better than HB/Axe1/etc.

Generally speaking, don’t neglect that axe also has traits that it can pick up.

For super sustained DPS, GS may be able to get more raw output because there are more traits / useful traits for it. That is, unless the Axe Warr has some group support lulz.

Prezzy.2783:

Well i run full zerker Armour and balance trinkets (solari, Sunari, triforge, 2x karka shell earring) Axe’s hit for about 1k with auto attack, and thats on a crit. 100B hits for 15-20k, easily.

Fully buffed Axe Chain 3 can hit for over 6k dmg. 3 times in 1,5sec! Your 1k Autoattack Crit is just a lie.

If u compoare only HB with the Axe Chain, u will fail. Because HB has got a CD, and within this CD the Axe will still do the same DPS.

Norjena.5172:

Prezzy.2783:

Well i run full zerker Armour and balance trinkets (solari, Sunari, triforge, 2x karka shell earring) Axe’s hit for about 1k with auto attack, and thats on a crit. 100B hits for 15-20k, easily.

Fully buffed Axe Chain 3 can hit for over 6k dmg. 3 times in 1,5sec! Your 1k Autoattack Crit is just a lie.

If u compoare only HB with the Axe Chain, u will fail. Because HB has go a CD, and within this CD the Axe will still do the same DPS.

don’t you see he run celestial stats ?
he got 50 +50 + 40 + 40 power from trinkets = 180 power – and 180 to all stats
and 1k /hit is normal you hit 6 k /chain

Full Zerkers Amor+Critdmg from Juwelery, is enough to crit for more then 1k. And yes, he said that it was a crit.

They are both good weapons, best dps weapons imo.

However, anyone saying Axe auto attack beats a 100B is drunk. Unless you are taking into consideration of 100B’s cooldown and that the warrior does nothing but GS auto attack during the cooldown. Who does that? No decent warrior does that.

My warrior is old and dusty but iirc I had this rotation: 100B→WW→swap to axe (animation cancel accordingly) Evicerate if the WW had put me abit away from target, if not Cyclone Axe first before Evicerate followed by some axe auto attack cycle before switching back to GS to start the rotation again. I don’t think the past few months have made that rotation obsolete.

If you were to choose either or instead of both (which I totally understand because the necessity of Range in certain situations), I’d choose GS, works better with ranged due to its get in get out moves (Rush/WW) and Forceful Greatsword trait gives u some good Might stacks that u can take advantage of even when using the ranged (i.e. 100B→WW away swap Rifle then Kill shot or Volley while the stacks of 5 sec might is still there)

Key thing to remember is warriors usually only have a 5 second weapon swap, take advantage of it and don’t autoattack unless you have to and if you do, autoattacking with axe is better than autoattacking with GS when it comes to dps.

EasymodeX.4062:

So, in case anyone’s wondering, the Axe1 chain is around 14% stronger raw dps than hundred blades, which is in turn about 2% stronger than GS autoattacks. The 3.5 second (e.g. slow as hell) channel really kills it.

The highest DPS ability is whirlwind attack, due to its insane speed and good damage in melee. Only caveat is that you have to turn back around and re-engage, which tends to stall the dps by a half second. This can be mitigated, however.

Eviscerate isn’t as good as WA, but is significantly better than HB/Axe1/etc.

Generally speaking, don’t neglect that axe also has traits that it can pick up.

For super sustained DPS, GS may be able to get more raw output because there are more traits / useful traits for it. That is, unless the Axe Warr has some group support lulz.

Are you including the 25 perma-Might stacks you get via Forceful Greatsword? That Trait alone is usually what annihilates any opposition to Greatsword supremacy, sadly.

If u are playing in a good Gruop, u will get 15+ Stacks or more from your partymembers. The missing Stacks u will get from Weaponswitch (Disciplin 25) and/or Sigil of Battle on Axe/Mace and Axe/Sword for example.

Are you including the 25 perma-Might stacks you get via Forceful Greatsword? That Trait alone is usually what annihilates any opposition to Greatsword supremacy, sadly.

Before or after I include 10% crit damage to Axe, accelerated Adren generation with Axe, perma Might from SOR, FGJ, Might and Fury from teammates … ?

Oh wait, I said raw damage didn’t I?

Greatsword needs about 10 stacks of permanent Might to be in the ballpark of Axe for sustained DPS.

The term “supremacy” is supremely hilarious though, I must admit.

Just go to test on PvP dummies.
On GS spec (Slashing Power, Forceful Greatsword) (30, 30, 10) with glass + FGJ! + Signet of Rage dummy drops between 3-3,5 seconds.
On similar Axe spec (Axe Mastery, Dual Wield) dummy drops between 3,5-4 seconds.

Doesn’t seem like 14% more DPS for me.

Um…I’m curious how Axe1 chain is 14% more damage, EzmodeX. Did you math it or did you compare it side by side. If you just math it the 1.75 sec total cast of Axe1 chain is misleading because that’s not the entire animation. The entire chain is actually around 3+ seconds, almost the timespan of a fully channeled hundred blades. Makes them comparable at best.

EasymodeX.4062:

The term “supremacy” is supremely hilarious though, I must admit.

Nontheless it is true. Stand around Lion’s Arch for a few and watch different Warriors come and go and take a count of how many are using Greatswords.

Um…I’m curious how Axe1 chain is 14% more damage, EzmodeX. Did you math it or did you compare it side by side. If you just math it the 1.75 sec total cast of Axe1 chain is misleading because that’s not the entire animation. The entire chain is actually around 3+ seconds, almost the timespan of a fully channeled hundred blades. Makes them comparable at best.

Took the numbers off the wiki, so they may or may not be accurate. From memory, the times are approximately correct. I used [edit: I deleted my spreadsheet, brb]

.25 + .75 + 1.5 seconds for the Axe1 chain. Note: the wiki doesn’t list the cast time of the second hit. It’s probably .5s, but I used 0.75s to under-estimate the Axe DPS. The Axe chain is 252 + 538 + 858 = 1648 damage. 659 DPS using the “slow” estimate for the Axe chain (it’s probably 732 DPS).

HB is 3.5s. Base damage of 2030. 580 DPS.

Using the generous estimate, 659 > 580 by 14%. More likely 732 > 580 by 26%, but I think some people would cry if I said Axe1 beats HB by 26%.

Anyways, not sure if most people really notice, but the first 8 hits of HB are really weak. As in, “about the same or weaker than GS autoattacks weak”. I guess the side benefit is that the raw # of hits (9 in 3.5 versus 7 AAs in 3.5) gets some random kitten partial synergy with the forceful trait. The vuln stacks on the GS AA help, too. I’m guessing it’s probably better to just use GS1111 over Hundred blades due to the Vuln stacks.

Whilwind Attack is really where GS stops sucking though. That, and the general mobility. Using the 26% number, it will take something like 15 more stacks of Might than the Axe build to maintain DPS. Lulz.

Oglaf.1074:

EasymodeX.4062:

The term “supremacy” is supremely hilarious though, I must admit.

Nontheless it is true. Stand around Lion’s Arch for a few and watch different Warriors come and go and take a count of how many are using Greatswords.

Is that supremacy or popularity?

25 perma-stacks of Might is not hard to maintain though. Not with Hundred Blades, Whirlwind Attack and multiple mobs.

Is that 15 more than the Axe build? Do you have the 25 stacks up for important fights? Do important fights have a mass of mobs you can cleave to maintain stacks? When fighting a mass of mobs, are you grouped or with other players who are spreading Might?

You’d be hard pressed to keep 10+ stacks with an Axe build, yes. With some Might duration you could at the most get 11 stacks for a short period when your FGJ overlap for short bit+Signet of Rage.

EasymodeX.4062:

Um…I’m curious how Axe1 chain is 14% more damage, EzmodeX. Did you math it or did you compare it side by side. If you just math it the 1.75 sec total cast of Axe1 chain is misleading because that’s not the entire animation. The entire chain is actually around 3+ seconds, almost the timespan of a fully channeled hundred blades. Makes them comparable at best.

Took the numbers off the wiki, so they may or may not be accurate. From memory, the times are approximately correct. I used [edit: I deleted my spreadsheet, brb]

.25 + .75 + 1.5 seconds for the Axe1 chain. Note: the wiki doesn’t list the cast time of the second hit. It’s probably .5s, but I used 0.75s to under-estimate the Axe DPS. The Axe chain is 252 + 538 + 858 = 1648 damage. 659 DPS using the “slow” estimate for the Axe chain (it’s probably 732 DPS).

HB is 3.5s. Base damage of 2030. 580 DPS.

Using the generous estimate, 659 > 580 by 14%. More likely 732 > 580 by 26%, but I think some people would cry if I said Axe1 beats HB by 26%.

Anyways, not sure if most people really notice, but the first 8 hits of HB are really weak. As in, “about the same or weaker than GS autoattacks weak”. I guess the side benefit is that the raw # of hits (9 in 3.5 versus 7 AAs in 3.5) gets some random kitten partial synergy with the forceful trait. The vuln stacks on the GS AA help, too. I’m guessing it’s probably better to just use GS1111 over Hundred blades due to the Vuln stacks.

Whilwind Attack is really where GS stops sucking though. That, and the general mobility. Using the 26% number, it will take something like 15 more stacks of Might than the Axe build to maintain DPS. Lulz.

The cast time is pretty off on the wiki. It’s 3 seconds+ in real time. Don’t quote me on it though I’m at work and only based this off of a YouTube demo of the Axe skill and the skill started at 0:04 and ended at 0:08 into the video so giving it 3.1s minimum time frame. So there could be Fraps or streaming delays. Although GS demo was pretty much 3.5 on the dot.

EasymodeX.4062:

Is that 15 more than the Axe build? Do you have the 25 stacks up for important fights? Do important fights have a mass of mobs you can cleave to maintain stacks? When fighting a mass of mobs, are you grouped or with other players who are spreading Might?

Please dude, just conceed this argument.

Basically what you are saying is that WITHOUT any traits the axe is better?

Unfortunately for you most 80’s running a GS use ‘Might on crit with GS’ trait and – as has been mentioned many times, this trait blows everything else out of the water.

So in essence, you may be right – A non traited GS does less damage than a non traited axe BUT the fact is – When traited, running perma fury and perma might axe will always be a warriors 2nd choice – Albeit a good 2nd choice, but it’s most definately 2nd, and not to mention none of the axes look as good as the GS’

Oglaf.1074:

You’d be hard pressed to keep 10+ stacks with an Axe build, yes. With some Might duration you could at the most get 11 stacks for a short period when your FGJ overlap for short bit+Signet of Rage.

What is with Partymembers? They can buff Might too. Signet of Rage suxx btw, u can give all 3 Boons to your partymembers by using Warbanner. Two Warriors + FGJ and your whole party will have Fury and 16+Mightstacks.

Event if Warbanner is on CD, it´s better. Signet=Might+Fury for 1 Person 3/4 of the Time. Warbanner Might+Fury for 5 Persons 1/4 of the time, unskilled.

Weaponswitch Disciplin 25 and Sigil of Battle will give the Axt some more Mightstacks. It´s not hard to reach 25 Stacks of Might with an Axe if u are playing in a normal good group.