Guild Wars 2

Signet of Rage “suxx”? It is one of the greatest Elites in the game! I’ll let my FGJ! do my talking over Warbanner. They’re mostly interested in the Fury Boon anyway, at least to my experience.

Why you overlooking swiftness? Afterall mobility is one of the more important things to have in this game.

I run Warhorn…

Warbanner buffs Swiftness too, to all partymembers. Warbanner>Signet of Rage if u are playing in a Group.

Congratulations on telling me that warbanner suits your build because you use warhorn.

Has it ever crossed your mind that there are other builds / weapons?

Oh – and Warbanner has a crazy CD

Prezzy.2783:

Please dude, just conceed this argument.

Basically what you are saying is that WITHOUT any traits the axe is better?

1. I’m saying that GS has a lot lower baseline DPS.

2. Better for what? Better for single targets? Can you maintain 25 Might stacks on a single target? Do bosses matter or trash? Which bosses?

3. You don’t even know what argument you beseech me to concede.

When traited, running perma fury and perma might axe will always be a warriors 2nd choice

Unless the Axe build has perma Might perma Fury. Or the GS can’t maintain perma Might due to the # of targets.

Etc etc.

Prezzy.2783:

Congratulations on telling me that warbanner suits your build because you use warhorn.

Has it ever crossed your mind that there are other builds / weapons?

Oh – and Warbanner has a crazy CD

I think you’re confused here. I am not the one being pro-Warbanner in this discussion.

Oglaf.1074:

Prezzy.2783:

Congratulations on telling me that warbanner suits your build because you use warhorn.

Has it ever crossed your mind that there are other builds / weapons?

Oh – and Warbanner has a crazy CD

I think you’re confused here. I am not the one being pro-Warbanner in this discussion.

Indeed i have – i just felt i was getting it from all angles from all people so replied with rage.

And as for EasymodeX – axe can have perma fury and perma might now can it? No.

Rayya.2591:

Norjena.5172:

Prezzy.2783:

Well i run full zerker Armour and balance trinkets (solari, Sunari, triforge, 2x karka shell earring) Axe’s hit for about 1k with auto attack, and thats on a crit. 100B hits for 15-20k, easily.

Fully buffed Axe Chain 3 can hit for over 6k dmg. 3 times in 1,5sec! Your 1k Autoattack Crit is just a lie.

If u compoare only HB with the Axe Chain, u will fail. Because HB has go a CD, and within this CD the Axe will still do the same DPS.

don’t you see he run celestial stats ?
he got 50 +50 + 40 + 40 power from trinkets = 180 power – and 180 to all stats
and 1k /hit is normal you hit 6 k /chain

last time i checked karka shell earrings are unique which means you can only equip one at a time.

Prezzy.2783:

And as for EasymodeX – axe can have perma fury and perma might now can it? No.

Uh ……… yes?

Prezzy.2783:

And as for EasymodeX – axe can have perma fury and perma might now can it? No.

Yes, it can. Not alone, but if u are playing i a good group yes. Mightstacking should be an important part of Teamplay. Warbanner helps here btw. Signet of Rage not. That´s why Warbanner>Signet of Rage if u aren´t alone.

I think it comes down to playstyle. It’s a game, let’s have fun! Megagaming makes me dizzy. I personally love having a big kitten sword and destroying people with it.

However I am curious to try an Axe/Warhorn build similar to the Yojack one with a few modifications. I just need the money!

That said, you just can’t beat the (properly traited) GS for Orr farming. You can’t.

Orr farming is so 2012.

btw… Axe and GS users are easily trolled

But seriously, if you use an axe, why care if GS does more damage?
Fact that you grabbed an axe means you’ve found other ways to play a warrior.

In fact, sharp weapons are for suckers.

Maces and Hammers are the bees’ knees!

EasymodeX,

Just tested in game with a stop watch. 3 seconds minimum for Axe1 chain. You may have to recalculate the base damage. GS 100B is slightly better than Axe in terms of base damage. 100B is also better due to striking more time which means it has better proc’ing (i.e. sigil of fire), negligible. But nonetheless, axe is great and I’m not denying it’s almost on par with Hundred Blades when it comes to raw dps.

Someone should add to wiki that it takes 3 seconds to finish an axe string.

I’d want to see that tested with animation cancelling on the third step of the chain, though, since it’s a channeled ability. Almost time for me to head out so I’ll try to remember to try it out tonight.

At 3.0 seconds, Axe1 would be about 5% lower DPS than HB.

Rayya.2591:

CookMETEnder.7582:

Rayya.2591:

you forget perma furry with gs wich can apply more then 20% flat DPS
i’ve tryed today stack furry with GS and i reach at 3 minutes furry stack only from arcing slice spam and signet of rage untill my target died (an champ in fractals)

I believe people have tested that out, and even with that, axe DPS comes ahead lol

if you say so, and your axe can bring more then 30k dps in 3 seconds , then i am out of arguments
good luck with your strong axe

That’s the thing, you seem to be blinded by the burst damage.
What do you do between bursts? The GS falls heavily behind.
GS falls even more behind because, realistically speaking, you rarely get to use a full HB AND you rarely get to use it as soon as it is off cooldown. Every second it waits in you bar, that is tons of lost DPS.

So I just tested a few things in-game and the results are annoying. Basically all separate attacks have additional delay and the tooltips don’t work well. Not sure if it’s isolated to 1111 chains or what.

Axe1 takes just about 3s to chain together as Orpheus noted. However, HB – 1111 – HB has a similar delay. (Untraited) HB + 10x autoattacks + HB takes about 15.5-16.5 seconds, whereas the tooltips have an expected 3.5 + 10*.5 + 3.5 = 12 second time. So, you basically lose time when using more than 1 attack in sequence (which is basically all the time every time).

So, it would require more obnoxious testing to get any further data (e.g. where the delays are being inserted).

A traited HB (~6.5s cooldown) would get about 8 * GS1. Over 10 seconds (HB + cooldown), you’d get an average of around 430 DPS because the AA has the delay all over (similar to Axe1). This is based on an extrapolation of the AAs because the cause of the 60% inefficiency (sidenote: I don’t think the DPS would improve much if I assumed HB was partially responsible, probably to 440-450). Axe1 at a 3s time for the chain nets a DPS around 549 as noted previously.

Fixing the GS sequence would involve inserting more attacks (and using less AAs because the AAs have extra delay for no apparent reason). Could probably get the DPS up to 500 or so using WA and assuming you’re still in range after it, etc. The Vuln is also notable.

Either way, it seems like ANet may want to do a serious quality pass on all the animation timing if they are actually balancing by the tooltip animation times, because those are basically wrong. If they’re not balancing by those, then whatever.

CookMETEnder.7582:

Rayya.2591:

CookMETEnder.7582:

Rayya.2591:

you forget perma furry with gs wich can apply more then 20% flat DPS
i’ve tryed today stack furry with GS and i reach at 3 minutes furry stack only from arcing slice spam and signet of rage untill my target died (an champ in fractals)

I believe people have tested that out, and even with that, axe DPS comes ahead lol

if you say so, and your axe can bring more then 30k dps in 3 seconds , then i am out of arguments
good luck with your strong axe

That’s the thing, you seem to be blinded by the burst damage.
What do you do between bursts? The GS falls heavily behind.
GS falls even more behind because, realistically speaking, you rarely get to use a full HB AND you rarely get to use it as soon as it is off cooldown. Every second it waits in you bar, that is tons of lost DPS.

there is not much time betwen bursts.
my usualy rotation vs champion is rush / hb / AS /whirlwind / switch rifle
vs bosses i cannot facetank for 3’1/2 seconds to land an full hb , there the axe warrior will have to move arround betwen hits also. Gs will win because whirlwind and rush /furry for your ranged weapon

Rayya.2591:

CookMETEnder.7582:

Rayya.2591:

CookMETEnder.7582:

Rayya.2591:

you forget perma furry with gs wich can apply more then 20% flat DPS
i’ve tryed today stack furry with GS and i reach at 3 minutes furry stack only from arcing slice spam and signet of rage untill my target died (an champ in fractals)

I believe people have tested that out, and even with that, axe DPS comes ahead lol

if you say so, and your axe can bring more then 30k dps in 3 seconds , then i am out of arguments
good luck with your strong axe

That’s the thing, you seem to be blinded by the burst damage.
What do you do between bursts? The GS falls heavily behind.
GS falls even more behind because, realistically speaking, you rarely get to use a full HB AND you rarely get to use it as soon as it is off cooldown. Every second it waits in you bar, that is tons of lost DPS.

there is not much time betwen bursts.
my usualy rotation vs champion is rush / hb / AS /whirlwind / switch rifle
vs bosses i cannot facetank for 3’1/2 seconds to land an full hb , there the axe warrior will have to move arround betwen hits also. Gs will win because whirlwind and rush /furry for your ranged weapon

Gs will win because of whirlwind?
Um, you do realize that axe DPS does not suffer as much from movement as GS?
Without HB, GS falls far, far, far behind.

let it be as you say :Axe is the best

EasymodeX.4062:

So I just tested a few things in-game and the results are annoying. Basically all separate attacks have additional delay and the tooltips don’t work well. Not sure if it’s isolated to 1111 chains or what.

Axe1 takes just about 3s to chain together as Orpheus noted. However, HB – 1111 – HB has a similar delay. (Untraited) HB + 10x autoattacks + HB takes about 15.5-16.5 seconds, whereas the tooltips have an expected 3.5 + 10*.5 + 3.5 = 12 second time. So, you basically lose time when using more than 1 attack in sequence (which is basically all the time every time).

So, it would require more obnoxious testing to get any further data (e.g. where the delays are being inserted).

A traited HB (~6.5s cooldown) would get about 8 * GS1. Over 10 seconds (HB + cooldown), you’d get an average of around 430 DPS because the AA has the delay all over (similar to Axe1). This is based on an extrapolation of the AAs because the cause of the 60% inefficiency (sidenote: I don’t think the DPS would improve much if I assumed HB was partially responsible, probably to 440-450). Axe1 at a 3s time for the chain nets a DPS around 549 as noted previously.

Fixing the GS sequence would involve inserting more attacks (and using less AAs because the AAs have extra delay for no apparent reason). Could probably get the DPS up to 500 or so using WA and assuming you’re still in range after it, etc. The Vuln is also notable.

Either way, it seems like ANet may want to do a serious quality pass on all the animation timing if they are actually balancing by the tooltip animation times, because those are basically wrong. If they’re not balancing by those, then whatever.

I appreciate your test. I think the tooltip usually only states the startup/casttime but neglects the animation that follows, I believe this applies to most skills tooltips in the game (and in many other MMOs as well!)

Rayya.2591:

let it be as you say :Axe is the best

I would say GS=/>Axe if u can use HB on cooldown, and WA against and wall or u are rooted/crippled.

If not Axe>GS. (But still close).

But this will only happen, if the Axewarrior will get Mightstacks too. GFJ, Sigil of Battle and 25Points Disciplin should give ~12Stacks or more. Banner/Signet and u are at 17 Stacks.

I personlly don´t like the GS so much, i hate 100B because of the selfroot.
Axe/Sword+Axe/Mace is my favourite at the moment. But i always carry all other Weapons (and a third Axe) with me. The Shield for example is often rly usefull to stay in meleecombat for more dps.

So i think we can say, both weapons are great. Does any other profession have this Choice in PvE for max dps?
I think not
So u should play what u want. If u´re mastering your weapon, it doesn´t rly matter what u play. And this is perfect i think.

Play the Game like u want…1 of the GW2 Slogans, PvE DPS Warrios can do it!. Enjoy it.

Orpheus.7284:

I appreciate your test. I think the tooltip usually only states the startup/casttime but neglects the animation that follows, I believe this applies to most skills tooltips in the game (and in many other MMOs as well!)

While taking a shower this morning I had the epiphany that the delay is probably related to the hit confirmation of chain abilities.

This was particularly notorious with the Mesmer Scepter1 chain — only chain in the game IIRC that uses ranged projectiles. The result is that the next step in the chain stalls until the prior step detects. This caused a huge slowdown for Scepter111 at max range (like 5 seconds to get a chain off). This effect is obviously much smaller for melee, but is probably adding 0.25s to every AA step from raw latency. Edit: Reminds me of morale ability delays in Warhammer until they eventually got that fixed.

Minor sidenote about other MMOs: MMOs that do not use animation-timed abilities (WoW, SWTOR, Rift) and use raw “GCD” instead, do not have these kinds of issues because the animations simply override each other. Technically the animations don’t really matter at all, since its usually coded such that the attacks will more or less always trigger.

MMOs like GW2/Aion/TERA which use animation-based timing will run into these issues (and animation cancelling, and others), but personally I don’t see what’s hard about it. Just make a 3.5s animation take exactly 3.5s. Kind of facepalm to me. Giving ANet the benefit of the doubt that they can measure “0.5 seconds” as well as a guy with a stopwatch, the issue probably lies with something else like latency rather than raw “fail animation timing”.

What is everyone’s prefered offhand compliment to the Axe?

I’d use Warhorn because WH is boss, but it really depends on what exactly you plan on doing. Mace and Shield are also common. Mace is probably the best dueling OH, shield counters megaburstlolorz, Warhorn gets you from point A to point B, among other things.

Mind sharing your build? I’m considering going into Healing Shouts with Warhorn for more overall utility and survivability in both dungeons and WvW (ZERO interest in sPvP).

Warhorn in PvE works better with Banners. Because to make Shoutheal usefull, u need -20% CD or “Shrug it Off”.

With Banners u can take “Quick breathing”.

In WvsW Banners are often not so usefull, only if u are attacking/defending a keep.
10/0/0/30/30 Build for example, if u want to use Evicerate often. But u can play it as a Shoutbuild too.

What do u guys think about the sword in 1 offhand (other Mace or Shield) for dps/block in PvE?
4 Deals good dmg if u let the bleeding stack up, and 5 is a good blockingskill with only 15sec CD.

Oh, I don’t have an Axe/WH build set up properly yet. I use GS//Sword/WH to run around the map fast (close to perma Swiftness with fast Leap/Rush/WW/Leap on top).

With Axe/WH I would go something like x/0/20+x/20/x. I personally like Stances, so I would go Axe/WH + stances. Not sure how the exact numbers would pan out. Or, could just go 30 Tactics for the Shout heal and go Shouts instead.

Mahanaxar.1386:

Mind sharing your build? I’m considering going into Healing Shouts with Warhorn for more overall utility and survivability in both dungeons and WvW (ZERO interest in sPvP).

Who was this to mate?

Prezzy.2783:

Mahanaxar.1386:

Mind sharing your build? I’m considering going into Healing Shouts with Warhorn for more overall utility and survivability in both dungeons and WvW (ZERO interest in sPvP).

Who was this to mate?

EasymodeX, but ALL are welcome to post builds!

But easymode doesnt run healing shouts – I do

EDIT : Just at work at the moment but if you search ‘Sonic Boom’ warrior build in google it should bring it up.

In short its 10 /25 /5 /30 / 0 obviously picking up forceful greatsword in Arms and shouts heal in tactics.
Will go into more detial once i am home.

Axe sustained dps is higher but to achieve it you end up with a lack of burst.. Which the greatsword excels at. Pick you poison, it all depends on the situation.

I must say the best thing about 100B is jumping off a fort that is being attacked in WvW and just spam everyone near the gate the Whirwind through back into the fort

Usually drops all the squishy ones then just finish them off from the walls with Longbow AOE’s

EasymodeX.4062:

Orpheus.7284:

I appreciate your test. I think the tooltip usually only states the startup/casttime but neglects the animation that follows, I believe this applies to most skills tooltips in the game (and in many other MMOs as well!)

While taking a shower this morning I had the epiphany that the delay is probably related to the hit confirmation of chain abilities.

This was particularly notorious with the Mesmer Scepter1 chain — only chain in the game IIRC that uses ranged projectiles. The result is that the next step in the chain stalls until the prior step detects. This caused a huge slowdown for Scepter111 at max range (like 5 seconds to get a chain off). This effect is obviously much smaller for melee, but is probably adding 0.25s to every AA step from raw latency. Edit: Reminds me of morale ability delays in Warhammer until they eventually got that fixed.

Minor sidenote about other MMOs: MMOs that do not use animation-timed abilities (WoW, SWTOR, Rift) and use raw “GCD” instead, do not have these kinds of issues because the animations simply override each other. Technically the animations don’t really matter at all, since its usually coded such that the attacks will more or less always trigger.

MMOs like GW2/Aion/TERA which use animation-based timing will run into these issues (and animation cancelling, and others), but personally I don’t see what’s hard about it. Just make a 3.5s animation take exactly 3.5s. Kind of facepalm to me. Giving ANet the benefit of the doubt that they can measure “0.5 seconds” as well as a guy with a stopwatch, the issue probably lies with something else like latency rather than raw “fail animation timing”.

Enlightening post.
Side note, I often have epiphanies in showers too.

Prezzy.2783:

But easymode doesnt run healing shouts – I do

EDIT : Just at work at the moment but if you search ‘Sonic Boom’ warrior build in google it should bring it up.

In short its 10 /25 /5 /30 / 0 obviously picking up forceful greatsword in Arms and shouts heal in tactics.
Will go into more detial once i am home.

That’s so funny! I <literally> just read the Sonic Boom original spec on my lunch break and respec’d to that and I’m loving it! Now I don’t have to save up for new Exotics as I was already running Knights armor with Bezerk weapons/accessories! Yay!

People saying test it on the dummies are dumb. I have tested it on dummies and thats where i find axe will drop them golems faster then 100b. But even i am smart enough to know that a gs hitting multiple targets ata time will build might faster so that isnt even a fair test for the gs. But really if you are hitting multiple targets its ussually in trash mob farming in open world. Axe deffinetly out classes it their even with the gs mobility because you can circle strafe pulling more foes and drawing them into your attack arc. Thats something the gs is clunky at.

Justine.6351:

People saying test it on the dummies are dumb. I have tested it on dummies and thats where i find axe will drop them golems faster then 100b. But even i am smart enough to know that a gs hitting multiple targets ata time will build might faster so that isnt even a fair test for the gs. But really if you are hitting multiple targets its ussually in trash mob farming in open world. Axe deffinetly out classes it their even with the gs mobility because you can circle strafe pulling more foes and drawing them into your attack arc. Thats something the gs is clunky at.

+1 for being realistically aware.
Too many people theory craft or do “controlled experiment.”

If people did the same in real life, everything would break down.

So instead of testing things we all should just make up random stuff.

sorry guys.. the axe cant compete against the GS due to eviscerate getting NERF’d to hell at launch.

Bring back the 20k+ eviscerate, then i’ll jump on the band wagon and say axe > gs.

Until then the GS has better dps numbers with normal hits doing anywhere from 1100-4000 on crit.
Thats PER hit…

Also u cant dismiss the whirl on the GS.
Its probably one of the most “OH SHOOT” buttons a warrior uses to get himself out of trouble.

Something Axe doesnt have.

Anyhow i am a rifle / GS build.
And i use my GS a lot in Fotm30+
And i have used the GS a lot in fotm60+

Rooted isnt bad when your a heavy and the PvE mobs sit there and take your HB.
Rooted however is terribad when ur in WvWvW and ur up against someone who knows how to move back.

So the best answer to this would be… like someone said, its very situational.
However in most cases in PvE, the GS would win.

Lastly…. i kill just about everything in cursed shore with 1HB… again something which would take quite a bit of work with an AXE to do.

Use HB for Might-Stacking and good DPS. Switch to Axe/Any. Eviscerate and Autohit with 15-10 Might. Switch to GS and repeat.

Molch.2078:

Use HB for Might-Stacking and good DPS. Switch to Axe/Any. Eviscerate and Autohit with 15-10 Might. Switch to GS and repeat.

why not both?

Cuz when u got something which can 4 shot you…. there is no way ur gonna go in there with a Axe or a melee weapon.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Building_Momentum

You can dodge plenty of attacks with an axe

I mostly run with dual axes (Berserker Destroyer Axe {bloodlust} Berserker Destroyer Axe{Fire}).

I enjoy the ability to move around, I dodge alot, I like to position myself constantly.

I have far more controll over my stance when in combat, also as to where I plan to move next.

I also enjoy having the benefit of 2 sigil’s working at once.

The stacking of power in main hand axe adds to the power and the fire sigil in off hand axe goes off all the time.

I do however have a Berserker Destroyer GS {bloodlust} in my inventory for the times which warrent the use of a GS.

Naekuh.7925:

Molch.2078:

Use HB for Might-Stacking and good DPS. Switch to Axe/Any. Eviscerate and Autohit with 15-10 Might. Switch to GS and repeat.

why not both?

Cuz when u got something which can 4 shot you…. there is no way ur gonna go in there with a Axe or a melee weapon.

You can melee every single trashmob and 95% of the bossmobs in this game. For the last 5% I carry a Rifle in my bag.
Oh, and you can melee that last 5%, too. It’s just kinda hard.

How do you melee the Guardian boss in CM path 2? Bridgette I believe her name is.

Oglaf.1074:

How do you melee the Guardian boss in CM path 2? Bridgette I believe her name is.

Yeah Yeah maybe that was an exaggeration. But I do use Axe/Shield + GS most of the time.

So lets remove that last sentence. There are still some bosses left. But you can melee the majority.

Edit: Well, you can. This guy is just too OP, nerf him!

I’d really love to figure out how to melee her, though. Between her silly AoE burning aura and Retaliation, I just can’t do it.

:S

Mahanaxar.1386:

Prezzy.2783:

But easymode doesnt run healing shouts – I do

EDIT : Just at work at the moment but if you search ‘Sonic Boom’ warrior build in google it should bring it up.

In short its 10 /25 /5 /30 / 0 obviously picking up forceful greatsword in Arms and shouts heal in tactics.
Will go into more detial once i am home.

That’s so funny! I <literally> just read the Sonic Boom original spec on my lunch break and respec’d to that and I’m loving it! Now I don’t have to save up for new Exotics as I was already running Knights armor with Bezerk weapons/accessories! Yay!

It really is a great build – I’ve mixed it up a little and tweked it to work better for my playstyle but i’m glad i used that for a bas.

Certainly beats my old glass cannon for survivability and doesn’t hit for a great deal less either.

Oglaf.1074:

I’d really love to figure out how to melee her, though. Between her silly AoE burning aura and Retaliation, I just can’t do it.

:S

Break LoS and she walks out of her symbols.
Then as usually, stay at max melee-range so dumb enemies won’t hit you.