Guild Wars 2

Cygnus.6903:

Constantly talking about other classes gets you nowhere. Warrior was perfectly fine, even a little underpowered DPS wise, before the nerf. There simply isn’t a reason not to revert it.

Try to fix other classes in topics that focus on, well, other classes.

Those 5% damage nerfs did further damage warriors that like to do content solo, where banners often don’t even matter enough to slot one.

Yes well there have been DPS charts that were brought into the discussion to justify reverting the damage back because Warrior damage is so “terrible” now. I really don’t see what the big deal is. So Arah boss’s take 2 minutes longer to solo. At least we can still solo it, they could very easily add in an NPC or a gate that takes 3 people to open. I would really hate to see the forums after that. Trust me, 30k HB still means you lift, bro.

Cygnus.6903:

Constantly talking about other classes gets you nowhere. Warrior was perfectly fine, even a little underpowered DPS wise, before the nerf. There simply isn’t a reason not to revert it.

Try to fix other classes in topics that focus on, well, other classes.

Those 5% damage nerfs did further damage warriors that like to do content solo, where banners often don’t even matter enough to slot one.

lol wat.

In solo content warriors are even stronger than in group content.
Except elementalists no other classes have that easy access to fury and might.
It’s the second strongest class to solo content.
And probably they’re still.

coglin.1867:

I can agree with everything the OP said except the point on adrenaline decay. I understood that change. We have entirely too many skills/traits linked to adrenaline to allow it not to decay. Although some compensation could be applied to some skills that it effected.

Exactly! You are supposed to make the adrenal decay change along with changes to the adrenal based skills/traits… which happens to be many.

Example?

Adrenal Health… It “ticked” every three seconds with the “old” adrenaline system. Now adrenaline decays faster but the trait still ticks every 3 secs.

It should be changed to tick every sec with the respective change on the healing amount.

Zagerus.8675:

I don’t feel that the damage nerfs are unwarranted. To be honest over the last year with the addition of a second sigil slot on GS and the ascended armor stat increases the damage as climbed quite a bit. I mean + 5% from force +10% at night +5% ish? from ascended armor. I don’t think the original numbers were balanced with those increases in mind back in 2012. So I think the changes to HB and Whirlwind were an attempt to pull those back in line when those modifiers are present. Perhaps other classes need to be reviewed and brought in line as well.

As for the adren change I can’t really speak much to how it feels on 6/5/0/03 in PvE since I haven’t ran that since the patch hit, although it did take some time to get used to not being able to use Combustive shot before the beginning of every fight. It feels pretty decent in PvP after adjusting. I’d get behind some changes to the decay rate though, I think there is definitely room for fine tuning it.

What even are you talking about??

The damage decreased since the ferocity patch in april in all areas at or around level 80 by a lot for all classes and all builds that relied at all on critical damage to be effective. This is the same patch which was when we were permitted to add a second sigil to 2h weapons. When that patch hit, there was also a bug that enabled all warriors to get a free signet of might the second they slotted the deep strikes trait, effectively adding 180 power for free without actually having the utility slotted. Even with the signet of might bug and the force sigil added to the GS, damage still was noticeably lower than before.

Not too much later after this patch hit, they nerfed stacking sigils so that we weren’t able to reliably keep bloodlust stacks anymore and managed to also fix the signet of might bug. Damage tanked even further.

Then later along in the summer they nerfed strength runes which was the go-to set after the ferocity patch hit, surpassing scholar runes in solos. They nerfed the damage from 7% increase to 5%, pushing DPS down even further.

Come september we’re now sitting on yet more damage nerfs: 5% damage reduction on 100b, 5% damage reduction on whirlwind, unable to use GS rush in our rotations in the majority of cases unless right in front of the mob, burst skills are bugged and no longer gain the damage increase from the Berserker’s Power trait, duration reduction on Signet of Rage (our primary source of fury/swiftness), and a triple nerf to adrenaline.

The only positive update warriors have seen in the past year for PvE was the buff to mace offhand. Literally nothing else.

EDIT: I forgot to include the several nerfs to sword offhand’s impale, and before anybody has the audacity to mention whirling axe getting a 17% damage increase— it’s still worse than the autoattack and irrelevant in PvE.

actually axe offhand got worse with the damage buff patch, at least it had a SMALL niche of being able to keep damaging while dodging, now not even that.

Purple Miku.7032:

Zagerus.8675:

I don’t feel that the damage nerfs are unwarranted. To be honest over the last year with the addition of a second sigil slot on GS and the ascended armor stat increases the damage as climbed quite a bit. I mean + 5% from force +10% at night +5% ish? from ascended armor. I don’t think the original numbers were balanced with those increases in mind back in 2012. So I think the changes to HB and Whirlwind were an attempt to pull those back in line when those modifiers are present. Perhaps other classes need to be reviewed and brought in line as well.

As for the adren change I can’t really speak much to how it feels on 6/5/0/03 in PvE since I haven’t ran that since the patch hit, although it did take some time to get used to not being able to use Combustive shot before the beginning of every fight. It feels pretty decent in PvP after adjusting. I’d get behind some changes to the decay rate though, I think there is definitely room for fine tuning it.

What even are you talking about??

The damage decreased since the ferocity patch in april in all areas at or around level 80 by a lot for all classes and all builds that relied at all on critical damage to be effective. This is the same patch which was when we were permitted to add a second sigil to 2h weapons. When that patch hit, there was also a bug that enabled all warriors to get a free signet of might the second they slotted the deep strikes trait, effectively adding 180 power for free without actually having the utility slotted. Even with the signet of might bug and the force sigil added to the GS, damage still was noticeably lower than before.

Not too much later after this patch hit, they nerfed stacking sigils so that we weren’t able to reliably keep bloodlust stacks anymore and managed to also fix the signet of might bug. Damage tanked even further.

Then later along in the summer they nerfed strength runes which was the go-to set after the ferocity patch hit, surpassing scholar runes in solos. They nerfed the damage from 7% increase to 5%, pushing DPS down even further.

Come september we’re now sitting on yet more damage nerfs: 5% damage reduction on 100b, 5% damage reduction on whirlwind, unable to use GS rush in our rotations in the majority of cases unless right in front of the mob, burst skills are bugged and no longer gain the damage increase from the Berserker’s Power trait, duration reduction on Signet of Rage (our primary source of fury/swiftness), and a triple nerf to adrenaline.

The only positive update warriors have seen in the past year for PvE was the buff to mace offhand. Literally nothing else.

EDIT: I forgot to include the several nerfs to sword offhand’s impale, and before anybody has the audacity to mention whirling axe getting a 17% damage increase— it’s still worse than the autoattack and irrelevant in PvE.

I think the reason we haven’t seen any warrior-specific buffs is because we are already in a really good place in all game types. The whole basis for this thread is to do more damage while solo in content that was designed for groups, not just a single warrior trying to go balls to the wall. And you can still solo, just not as effectively as before.* In my opinion it’s a non-issue because 1. we can still solo and 2. we do it pretty efficiently compared to other classes.

and edit: Btw I’m not against reverting the changes simply for the sake of it. It sucks when you see a fellow player so disappointed with changes that they literally drop the profession. And many others express this opinion on the forums. I’ve probably seen at least 8 responses in other threads about dropping war. They might change it back with discussions like these, but I don’t think the current changes are a reason to never log into a warrior again.

+100000 to this thread

I’m even fine with the adrenaline decay, but we are a MELEE class. Stop nerfing our weopon damage!

Zagerus.8675:

I think the reason we haven’t seen any warrior-specific buffs is because we are already in a really good place in all game types. The whole basis for this thread is to do more damage while solo in content that was designed for groups, not just a single warrior trying to go balls to the wall. And you can still solo, just not as effectively as before.* In my opinion it’s a non-issue because 1. we can still solo and 2. we do it pretty efficiently compared to other classes.

and edit: Btw I’m not against reverting the changes simply for the sake of it. It sucks when you see a fellow player so disappointed with changes that they literally drop the profession. And many others express this opinion on the forums. I’ve probably seen at least 8 responses in other threads about dropping war. They might change it back with discussions like these, but I don’t think the current changes are a reason to never log into a warrior again.

No, you’re just assuming it’s about soloing group content. Quite obviously as that’s something I do, yes, that’s something I obviously am upset about.

My point is that the feature patch changes neutered warrior in PvE as a whole. You can’t even make use of the warrior’s primary mechanic in open world; adrenaline doesn’t build fast enough to make use of before a mob dies, yet disappears before you fight the next mob. The only time this isn’t the case is when fighting hordes of mobs all at once. While I don’t have a problem with adrenaline decaying, it seems stupid for it to decay this fast.

Also it’s significantly slower to kill mobs with a warrior compared to my ele when running around attacking things, both in the best of the best setups. There wasn’t a point in lowering the damage from GS and warrior’s DPS is extremely low even in a solo setting… which used to be the one place warrior specialized at. It’s not bad, but it’s nothing special now aside from its high health pool/healing signet honestly.

Should the only niche of warrior in PvE be to provide offensive support in groups with banners?

Ideally I’d like all classes to specialize in more things. I’d like to see improvements for some of the other neglected classes that were mentioned in the thread, but this one is specifically about improving this one.

And right now, warrior is in a bland and underwhelming position in PvE.

Right now in PvP,
DD ele replaced warrior fairly quickly
warrior turns in to res bot, combat nurse with runes of mercy, but still not usefull enough.

Top warriors pretty much all switched class i blieve

Tarcis playing thief
Hman played necro
ROM playing ranger
Orcal something forgot his name play ele
Wakkey play ele

there is no spot for warrior in top team anymore.

People still don’t get it that this thread isn’t about PvP.

And no, ROM still plays warrior, Lypion still plays Warrior – heck ,CM ushually runs 2 Warriors…

@Miku

There wasn’t a point in lowering the damage from GS and warrior’s DPS is extremely low even in a solo setting… which used to be the one place warrior specialized at.

Should the only niche of warrior in PvE be to provide offensive support in groups with banners?

Ideally I’d like all classes to specialize in more things. I’d like to see improvements for some of the other neglected classes that were mentioned in the thread, but this one is specifically about improving this one.

And right now, warrior is in a bland and underwhelming position in PvE.

I guess, tha warrior is the last class that has to complain about low dps in solo settings lol.
Warrior isn’t in a underwhelming position in PvE.
At least there are 5 classes which are worse than the warrior in PvE.

Should the only niche of warrior in PvE be to provide offensive support in groups with banners?

As I said, this is a curcular argument.
What makes a guard sepcial except support? What makes a Mesmer special?…….
All those classes which can’t deal the highest dps are only there because of support.

Looking back at old videos of mine and comparing the damage that I was able to max out with over time, I completely disagree with you. The damage I can deal now in the most ideal of solo settings is pathetic. Regardless of how much time and effort I’d like to put into it, there’s not a chance in hell I’d ever be able to catch my ele’s DPS in a solo setting or group setting.

You can say it’s a circular argument all you want but when one of my classes is better than my other in offensive support, defensive support, group DPS, solo DPS, and just about everything else— I’m not going to take it seriously.

Nowhere did I say anything about any of the other classes not deserving more attention.

Also what’s with this rhetorical question…?

dominik.9721:

What makes a guard sepcial except support?

…

Why are you telling me that any classes present are only there for support like I don’t know??

There’s a profound difference between providing a party with reflects, stability, timing party-wide aegis, blinding mobs, purging conditions at encounters like archdiviner etc…

…and just dropping 2 banners that give passive attribute increases.

That’s literally it. Warrior does nothing else useful aside from applying vulnerability to bosses which they aren’t even best at. If you want to do more, you can neuter your damage to sub-necro levels and run Phalanx Strength, but not be able to provide everyone permanent fury like an elementalist can.

Comparing the support that a warrior offers with a guardian is kind of laughable tbh. One of them requires active gameplay, practice and understanding encounters to be good at. The other requires absolutely nothing. The fact that this is all warrior is best at doing makes it pretty clear to me that warrior is a very underwhelming class in PvE. Planting banners should not be the only thing warrior is the best at.

dominik.9721:

People still don’t get it that this thread isn’t about PvP.

And no, ROM still plays warrior, Lypion still plays Warrior – heck ,CM ushually runs 2 Warriors…

Lypion still plays warrior but CM runs 2 ele and with Lypion as the only warrior in last week ESL against TCG.

ROM still plays warrior, but he played ToG finals as a ranger and he has been playing ranger for a lot of time lately in stream.

Thats barely one warrior and a half good player who kept playing warrior ( if you really want to counter ESL matches, because then gs warrior should be considered viable as well.)

still doesnt change the fact that most of the top warriors either simply switched to other classes or started to play other classes.

I don’t really get your logic how you just naming ONE single example and try to put down my argument like its the norm.

Still doesn’t change the fact that this is a PvE-Thread and not about PvP.
But yes you’re right.
Because ROM played about 2 times Ranger he certainly quit Warrior.
Oh wait, atm he’s streaming and guess what he’s playing.

Less QQ pls.

Purple Miku.7032:

Looking back at old videos of mine and comparing the damage that I was able to max out with over time, I completely disagree with you. The damage I can deal now in the most ideal of solo settings is pathetic. Regardless of how much time and effort I’d like to put into it, there’s not a chance in hell I’d ever be able to catch my ele’s DPS in a solo setting or group setting.

Yes for sure your dps is lower now. But what shall the other classes say? They’re even worse. Buffing warrior doesn’t change anything at least not the problem of elementalists beeing that surperior you are reffering to.

And pls. don’t tell me that the dmg you deal in solo settings is pathetic. Warrior probably has the second highest dps in solo setting so pls stop qq at least in solo content.

You can say it’s a circular argument all you want but when one of my classes is better than my other in offensive support, defensive support, group DPS, solo DPS, and just about everything else— I’m not going to take it seriously.

Same here. Trust me the problem isn’t the warrior. If the problem would be the warrior, the problem would be 5 other classes as well.
The warrior doesn’t deserv a buff only because an elementalist is better.

Also what’s with this rhetorical question…?

dominik.9721:

What makes a guard sepcial except support?

…

Why are you telling me that any classes present are only there for support like I don’t know??

There’s a profound difference between providing a party with reflects, stability, timing party-wide aegis, blinding mobs, purging conditions at encounters like archdiviner etc…

…and just dropping 2 banners that give passive attribute increases.

Ok so now you are complaing that the warrior doesn’t have any active and innovative support? Why does not any of your suggestions affect this?

That’s literally it. Warrior does nothing else useful aside from applying vulnerability to bosses which they aren’t even best at. If you want to do more, you can neuter your damage to sub-necro levels and run Phalanx Strength, but not be able to provide everyone permanent fury like an elementalist can.

Comparing the support that a warrior offers with a guardian is kind of laughable tbh. One of them requires active gameplay, practice and understanding encounters to be good at. The other requires absolutely nothing. The fact that this is literally all warrior is good at doing makes it pretty clear to me that warrior is a very underwhelming class in PvE. Planting banners should not be the only thing warrior is the best at.

Ok guardian maybe wasn’t a good example. Then take ranger. He brings spotter+spirit. Take an engi he brings vulneranility nothing else… take mesmer you just bring him for ONE portal.

But probably people now try to tell me that engineers have also waterfields and mightstacks and mesmers have boonrip

yer… warrior has CC and shoutheal…

Comparing classes to an elementalist is just nonsense and especally not an argument for buffs. It would be even more an argument for an elementalists nerf….

But..a warrior in PvE complaining about elementalists is the same like a man who earns 1 million, looks up to someone else who earns 2 million and complains about beeing poor,allthough there are 5 people who haven’t even 1 million.

So let me get the straight. you are comparing professions (often the first in dps), when if I recall that is almost always a no-no when the warrrior’s trait/skill/what have you is superior as “profession are different”.

So if am understanding this correctly if you do not want elementalist’s dps reduce you are welling to settle for 2nd place PvE dps.

But why are you kidding yourself, PvE related balance changes, highly unlikely.

What dominik is saying is that warriors have banners, everything else is irrelevant. Dps doesnt matter at all because warrior have banners. You cant buff warriors because warrior have banners. Ele could provide might but warrior have banners, guardians have active defense support but warrior have banners, eng have perm swiftness and vulnerability stack but warrior have banners, theif have stealth but warrior have banners, mesmer have portal but warrior have banner.

Oh and warrior can solo too. If warriors were to get buff, other professions cant solo anymore. So in order to make other class able to solo contents, warrior should deserve a nerf further more, any more buff towards warrior will remove the capability of other professions to do solo.

No Kevin.
In solo content dps-wise elementalist is the ONLY class who is better than the warrior. So ALL other classes are worse than the warrior by this measure.

At the same way warriors are atm better than 5 OTHER classes in group content. The reason why doesn’t matter.
What sense would it make to buff them now?
NERF your kitten BANNERS and you are allowed to buff them in any way you would like to see.
But complaining mimimi my dps sucks and I have only banners, allthough you are the second strongest class in solo content and stronger than 5 other classes in group content because they even don’t have that strong support like banners, is kind of strange.
If you guys are bored because warriors only have passive support which doesn’t require anything then make suggestions to change this.

But yes ,“Warriors only have banners” is not a good argument to buff them.
At the same way " But elementalists are that better than warrior" isn’t.

I actually agree 100% with Miku, although I really don’t care about PvE that much. Especially about the decay part. I don’t think many of us are asking to remove the decay completely. I think the decay kicking in 10 seconds after combat is more than a reasonable change.

Well, actually miku didnt use ele as a reason to buff warriors. He was referring that his dps was much lower than the past due to the uncalled nerf. I am pretty sure that in his op he didnt say buff warrior because ele is better.

He wasnt even really talking about buffing it, as he mention it multiple times, it was reverting the nerf back to the way it was.

By nerfing warriors, does it made other professions better off? Did other Professions dps increase mircaculously?

On the contrary, does buffing warrior make others dps drop dramatiscally?

Like what miku has previously said, the nerf to the warriors did not make other profession any stronger. He understands the issues of other professions, that is why aNet should have buff them instead of nerfing warriors. Also miku’s suggestion didnt really turn warrior to hax0rs PVE OP monsters.

Is warrior the second strongest solo class? I don’t think so.

Which class except ele is able to attain 20 stacks might and fury?
So yes, Dps-wise warrior is

@Kevin
Actually tbh they didnt nerf the warrior enough.thats why he is still superior in pve compared to other classes.
So yes the netf was pretty fair in pve and rechanging the nerf would be unjustified.
Before the warrior deservs a buff all 5 other classes need to get even on pair first of all.

Because might and fury are all that matters when it comes to DPS?

Anyway, where is the proof? You are just assuming warrior is second best, where they might be lower. Or higher.

Yes a warrior with 18 stacks of might and fury deals way higher dps than a guardian who has nearly no acces to might. At the same way warrors dps is even stronger than thief dps.
If you would play at least a bit ambitinous pve you wouldnt need a proof.
Its petty clear.

Thats the reason why warriors dps is weak in groups compared to other classes because EVERYONE has 25 stacks of might there.

If it’s so clear then why are you the only one that knows it?

FYI before the recent warrior nerf, the record guardian Lupicus solo was faster than the record warrior Lupicus solo, and I’m not talking about that wall exploit 1-shot crap either. Now it’s even faster.

Yes because of reflect in p2 and p3 pretty good example to compare dps im impressed. But it doesnt really matter. Warriors dps is in solo play pretty strong compared to other classes and you dont need to make rich people even richer if there are people out who even dont have what you have.

But its ok as i mentioned before rechange the buff but THEN be responsible for engineers,rangers,mesmer and guards who are all worse than the warrior and at this time i wish you gl and hf to explain them why the warrior deserved a buff -a rechanged nerf call it how ou want.

Reflection is a legitimate defensive and offensive mechanic in GW2’s combat. As I’ve said before, if reflects are involved then guardian in many cases can surpass warrior’s DPS in a solo setting.

Your argument is basically that as long as warriors don’t have the lowest DPS in a solo setting then you don’t need to buff them. That’s no more reasonable than my argument.

dominik.9721:

Yes a warrior with 18 stacks of might and fury deals way higher dps than a guardian who has nearly no acces to might. At the same way warrors dps is even stronger than thief dps.
If you would play at least a bit ambitinous pve you wouldnt need a proof.
Its petty clear.

Thats the reason why warriors dps is weak in groups compared to other classes because EVERYONE has 25 stacks of might there.

Well I am not claiming things I don’t know enough about. I do not play PvE as it bores the kitten out of me, but I do see you making claim after claim about warriors being second in solo play.

Question, how does the solo warrior stack might?

No miku but you are arguing like their dps would be bad in solo setting an thats the biggest bs and lie i have evet read

@Cygnus Gretswordtrait,SoR,FgJ and strength runes

I’m not arguing that their DPS should be bad, that’s the opposite of what I want lol.

I’m stating that it is bad. Comparing to what warriors were capable of doing months/a year ago— it’s rubbish.

If the mob isn’t against the wall then it’s just dreadfully low. In fact, it’s so crappy right now that condition warrior deals way more damage against heavily-armored bosses even when the boss is against the wall. This wasn’t the case in the past; they used to be roughly even.

Yes thats the problem.you want the opposite allthouhg the dps in solo play is pretty strong and even strongr than most of the other classes.
That you dealed more dmg one year ago doesnt make it better in any way, on the contrary it shows that the dps was even more on top compared to other classes.

“solo dungeons” is just as much a good reason to balance classes as “solo roaming” or “jumping puzzles”.

in a group setting warriors have a spot but that spot is really just dropping banners and looking pretty. that’s both pve and wvw btw, just different banners, pvp involves more stuns than that but eh, warrior in pvp kind of sucks now (coming from a warrior main).

war could definitely use a little bit more damage, right now if necros had banners instead of warriors we’d be the worst pve class by far.

Yes i agree with you. To drop banners and its gone is a cheap design. But not a single suggestion affects that problem especally not the idea to increase simply the dps allthouhg you dont nerf the banners in return.

Lower the dps that banners offer to the group and you can increase theire dps. But to simply buff their dps is unjustified at the same way it was one yaer ago unjustified.

I just dont get why you guys want to make rich people even richer allthoufg there are poor people out

Warriors are now more ballanced than ever. They still are most desired in groups, either for casual runs, or speedruns. They are awesome stackable class, and very very easy to play.

No they don’t need a dps buff, when they have that amount of support. Why should warriors do more damage than an engi or ranger when they have already better support buffs for the group? What would be the reason to play other classes then?

For entirely selfish reasons I would like PvE warrior DPS to back where it was before the greatsword nerf.

From a game design standpoint, I completely understand why the change was made.

Also from that standpoint I worry that further nerfs are coming. I am fairly certain anet will keep nerfing PVE warrior until they are interchangeable with Rangers in party compositions.

warrior is not as stackable as people think, runs with 4 warrior 1 guard/mesmer/ele has been among the most horrible of my career. 1, 2 war is all you need, more than that they are mostly dead weight, dps is low and utility is nonexistant, there’s only so much might/fury/banners you can stack.

warrior is the most desirable PUG class, becuase nobody can really “fail” on it as it has no responsibility whitin a group. put the reflection duty in the hand of a bad player and bad things happen, put a bad warrior in your party your run just goes slower.

not as appealing or stackable as most seem to think.

PS: @yellowdemon

ranger has better dps and comaprable dps-buffing utilities, if the sword auto chain wasn’t as whacky as it is they’d be much more popular in dugneons. also they have the polar opposite of what makes warrior desirable. bad players can fail on a ranger REALLY hard, all it takes is poor pet aggro management.

engi has an amount of support that warriors can’t even get close to, condi removal, healing, reflections/blocks, might stacking, vuln stacking even stealth all in one package. it just takes a decent player to make good use of it.

Purple Miku.7032:

coglin.1867:

I can agree with everything the OP said except the point on adrenaline decay. I understood that change. We have entirely too many skills/traits linked to adrenaline to allow it not to decay. Although some compensation could be applied to some skills that it effected.

You sure you carefully read it? I didn’t say that it shouldn’t decay, I said it shouldn’t decay at the speed that it currently does— which is basically vanishing before my eyes without a chance to make use of it in any situation other than a boss fight. You kill non-champs too fast for it to build up.

That’s very true. In non-boss encounters adrenaline basically doesn’t even factor in.
It would be nice to have a mechanic that can be accessed at any point during any encounter – not just if the encounter is with a boss.

hybrid.5027:

For entirely selfish reasons I would like PvE warrior DPS to back where it was before the greatsword nerf.

From a game design standpoint, I completely understand why the change was made.

Also from that standpoint I worry that further nerfs are coming. I am fairly certain anet will keep nerfing PVE warrior until they are interchangeable with Rangers in party compositions.

Why was the change made? How was warrior dps too good before?!

In groups the dps wasn’t too good.
But the comprehensive income which a warrior offered was / is way to much.

Harper.4173:

hybrid.5027:

For entirely selfish reasons I would like PvE warrior DPS to back where it was before the greatsword nerf.

From a game design standpoint, I completely understand why the change was made.

Also from that standpoint I worry that further nerfs are coming. I am fairly certain anet will keep nerfing PVE warrior until they are interchangeable with Rangers in party compositions.

Why was the change made? How was warrior dps too good before?!

I don’t think he was insinuating that. Trust me, he knows a lot about warriors.

adozu.6398:

warrior is not as stackable as people think, runs with 4 warrior 1 guard/mesmer/ele has been among the most horrible of my career. 1, 2 war is all you need, more than that they are mostly dead weight, dps is low and utility is nonexistant, there’s only so much might/fury/banners you can stack.

warrior is the most desirable PUG class, becuase nobody can really “fail” on it as it has no responsibility whitin a group. put the reflection duty in the hand of a bad player and bad things happen, put a bad warrior in your party your run just goes slower.

not as appealing or stackable as most seem to think.

The reality is that many people are ill-informed and have “100b syndrome” as friends of mine like to call it; they think warrior is godmode DPS when it isn’t. Warriors are still a popular pick, so they’re easily targeted by the nerf guns sadly.

You know how much crap rangers and necros get? I guarantee you that most of the people who immediately assume them to be terrible have no idea why. Likewise, most of the people who think it’s good to stack warriors are equally naive.

yes that’s what i tell my friends too

pug mentality:

“my party needs warriors because best dps,
guards because i die,
elementalits because they told me they good”

Harper.4173:

hybrid.5027:

For entirely selfish reasons I would like PvE warrior DPS to back where it was before the greatsword nerf.

From a game design standpoint, I completely understand why the change was made.

Also from that standpoint I worry that further nerfs are coming. I am fairly certain anet will keep nerfing PVE warrior until they are interchangeable with Rangers in party compositions.

Why was the change made? How was warrior dps too good before?!

Before the war nerf ranger buff

warriors made 12k dps and banners improved party dps overall by 23%.

Rangers made 10k DPS and frostspotter improved team dps by 12%.

after the war nerf ranger buff

Warriors make 11.5k DPS and banners improve party dps by 23%

Rangers make 12k DPS and frostspotter improves party dps by 12%.

My opinion is that on the pve side Anet intends to have warrior and ranger fill roughly analogous roles (offensive DPS support). I don’t see them buffing ranger personal dps more, or buffing frost spirit or spotter more. So what options does it leave for bringing them to parity? Nerfing warrior personal dps or nerfing banners. If you nerf the warrior personal dps enough the 11% benefit of the banners vs. frostspotter will cancel out. Or they could just nerf banners harshly. Or do both and make Rangers meta in place of warrior.

I’m not for this, but then again I am not a Ranger player.

Then why couldnt they buff rangers instead of nerfing warrior?

So warrior went from 12k dps to 11.5k dps with banners untouched and we have 3 pages worth of discussion on how warriors are broken in PvE

WORD

Narkodx.1472:

So warrior went from 12k dps to 11.5k dps with banners untouched and we have 3 pages worth of discussion on how warriors are broken in PvE

WORD

Not really. It would nice to know if he make the math assuming that adrenaline is 100%, because that’s probably the biggest issue with the nerf. Adrenaline drop like crazy after only a couple of second without fighting. That drop even more the warrior dps in a dungeon settings.

Thaddeus.4891:

Narkodx.1472:

So warrior went from 12k dps to 11.5k dps with banners untouched and we have 3 pages worth of discussion on how warriors are broken in PvE

WORD

Not really. It would nice to know if he make the math assuming that adrenaline is 100%, because that’s probably the biggest issue with the nerf. Adrenaline drop like crazy after only a couple of second without fighting. That drop even more the warrior dps in a dungeon settings.

Use Healing Surge if you’re concerned.

hybrid.5027:

Harper.4173:

hybrid.5027:

For entirely selfish reasons I would like PvE warrior DPS to back where it was before the greatsword nerf.

From a game design standpoint, I completely understand why the change was made.

Also from that standpoint I worry that further nerfs are coming. I am fairly certain anet will keep nerfing PVE warrior until they are interchangeable with Rangers in party compositions.

Why was the change made? How was warrior dps too good before?!

Before the war nerf ranger buff

warriors made 12k dps and banners improved party dps overall by 23%.

Rangers made 10k DPS and frostspotter improved team dps by 12%.

after the war nerf ranger buff

Warriors make 11.5k DPS and banners improve party dps by 23%

Rangers make 12k DPS and frostspotter improves party dps by 12%.

My opinion is that on the pve side Anet intends to have warrior and ranger fill roughly analogous roles (offensive DPS support). I don’t see them buffing ranger personal dps more, or buffing frost spirit or spotter more. So what options does it leave for bringing them to parity? Nerfing warrior personal dps or nerfing banners. If you nerf the warrior personal dps enough the 11% benefit of the banners vs. frostspotter will cancel out. Or they could just nerf banners harshly. Or do both and make Rangers meta in place of warrior.

I’m not for this, but then again I am not a Ranger player.

Then they will just bring another ele or thief or engi or guardian instead of either warrior or ranger. it’s clear that warrior and ranger dps does not matter only buffs, if you just cancel banner, then both class will be no use.

They should instead buff both class DPS wise and utility wise.

I disagree. If banners were removed from the game people would 100% bring rangers in the warriors place, no question about that. 112% group damage > 100% group damage.

ranger also has water field and projectil reflect.
but these dont matter because other classes which higher damage higher everything already have it.

it’s sad that ranger and warrior are only down to giving team passive buff.

Don’t you think it’s unfair that some classes not only output amazing damage also brings enough utility to carry the team and make the process easier, such as stealth, projectil reflect/block, water field, condition cleanse, might stacking and CCs

I would give up banner any day, because it is simply a off CD spam pure passive stats which is simply unfun to play with and the banner skills are so lame so meh.

It is really sad that warrior has become this combat cleric who buffs his teamates but offensively, shouldnt that be the role of a guardian.

Since the day of farming cof, i already realized how boring is a warrior in PvE, just place banner and do your hundred blade. but it did decent damage so w/e.

If you just see warriors utility skills, non of them are any useful except for passive buff ones. theres a reason it’s called a utility skills and not a trait, i wish utility skills can be useful, skillful plays, not simply off CD spam, or never touch(signets)

warriors already have really limited skill slots, unlike other classes with f2 f3 f4 and kit attunement swap, two phased skills etc.

and you end up making all these limited skill slots to passive buffs.

This is just bad design, really bad design.

Simon.3794:

It is really sad that warrior has become this combat cleric who buffs his teamates but offensively, shouldnt that be the role of a guardian.

Guardian is the defensive combat cleric.

This is just bad design, really bad design.

I don’t agree with that. Bad design would be if they have no utilities for group buffing and weren’t in the meta at all.

hybrid.5027:

Simon.3794:

It is really sad that warrior has become this combat cleric who buffs his teamates but offensively, shouldnt that be the role of a guardian.

Guardian is the defensive combat cleric.

This is just bad design, really bad design.

I don’t agree with that. Bad design would be if they have no utilities for group buffing and weren’t in the meta at all.

Guardian should be both cleric, warrior is not a cleric. i did not make my warrior, so i can buff my teamates. not to mention guardian is offensively superior then warrior.

Pure passive off CD spam buffing is bad design. i don’t see how you can’t understand it.
If being in a broken meta for being a banner bot is good design im glad that you are not a designer.