Guild Wars 2

Mainhand sword has always been my favorite weapon in the game, mechanically, but it seems like ever since the trait rework it has been pretty weak.

At first glance I thought the new traits made sword better but all things considered, sword has never been worse. A long time ago, I had a 2/2/2 rune setup that gave 60% bleeding duration. I think that was when sword was at its strongest.

Now condi duration is much less available and it seems like the available stat combinations aren’t good for sword, and here’s why.

I’ve tried sword with full berserker’s and despite getting a large bonus to crit chance when traited, it just doesn’t do enough DPS until enemies get below 50% health. So I think sword needs to be built hybrid.

The problem with hybrid sword is there are no hybrid stat combos with power primary. Without any precision you have 44% crit chance (20% trait, 20% fury, 4% base), so power primary would be the best.

And of course Final Thrust is another reason power primary is important.

Honestly I think sword would be really strong if there was a power/condition damage/ferocity stat combo.

I think you are wrong. I use mainhand sword, and I kick butt. I can kill things pretty darn fast, and I am difficult to kill. Of course I don’t use berserkers. I use armor for conditional damage (off the top of my head I don’t remember which). I’m thinking some rabid and some rampager. I do have good precision, also, but not stellar. Enough to get my bleeds.

I use MH sword pretty much like this guy, and it works very well, even though it’s not the primary damage set. But it brings a lot to the build.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Vid-The-SwordMaster-WvW-Roaming/first#post5342496

Choppy.4183:

I use MH sword pretty much like this guy, and it works very well, even though it’s not the primary damage set.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Vid-The-SwordMaster-WvW-Roaming/first#post5342496

The problem you’re describing is more of a condi warrior problem broadly. It’s generally not optimal to even take Arms on a condi build, which means swords don’t even get that love. If you do take it, the condi application that warriors can muster is outclassed by others, and zerk ends up being the more damaging spec by a fair margin.

How can you even begin to justify not taking arms with MH sword? 20% crit chance and 15% attack speed. It’s completely insane not to take it if you’re actually using MH sword for damage.

It seems like you’re using MH sword purely as a utility weapon in that build for savage leap and the burst attack for immobilize.

This doesn’t prove that MH sword is in a good place at all.

Khristophoros.7194:

How can you even begin to justify not taking arms with MH sword? 20% crit chance and 15% attack speed. It’s completely insane not to take it.

Pretty easily, actually.

I put Intelligence sigil on it to ensure the FT burst, and Berserker Power, might stacking (from GS on the other set), Reckless Dodge and Stick & Move completely outclasses anything I’d get in the Arms tree. We can do the math if you don’t believe me… it’s not even close, especially if you’re factoring in the second weapon set.

As for how I’m using sword, FT is pretty huge burst. The rest of the skills bring important utility, and only the auto comes across as underpowered. Sword doesn’t have to be the most damaging weapon we have in order to be a good weapon.

Choppy.4183:

Khristophoros.7194:

How can you even begin to justify not taking arms with MH sword? 20% crit chance and 15% attack speed. It’s completely insane not to take it.

Pretty easily, actually. I put Intelligence sigil on it to ensure the FT burst, and Berserker Power, might stacking (from GS on the other set), Reckless Dodge and Stick & Move completely outclasses anything I’d get in the Arms tree.

So yes, you’re only using it as a utility weapon to support the GS.

If MH sword was your main damage set you would want arms, so the point of my thread is that it’s obviously not viable to use for your main damage set because either lack of the right stat combo or some other factor.

Khristophoros.7194:

So yes, you’re only using it as a utility weapon to support the GS.

If MH sword was your main damage set you would want arms, so the point of my thread is that it’s obviously not viable to use for your main damage set because either lack of the right stat combo or some other factor.

Right… but you’ll notice in the post I linked I’m choosing sword over a more damaging weapon because of the utility it provides. In much the same way, I could choose a ranged weapon over a more damaging melee weapon because of what it brings. I’m also not camping my gs because the gs has it’s own limitations that the sword can partially cover.

As for damage, Arms still isn’t better for MH Sword from a straight non-condi damage point of view , even if you’re ignoring your other weapon set for some reason.

Arms:

• Blademaster (+20% crit chance)
• Dual Wielding (effectively +15% damage, assuming you’re not running shield)

Strength:

• Stick & Move (+10% damage)
• Berserker’s Power (+20% damage)

I run Pack runes, so combined with SoR I already have about perma 70%+ crit chance. So the marginal benefit from having crit chance go up to 90% doesn’t really isn’t worth more than the extra 15% damage at all times, especially when factoring in the Intelligence sigil that I’d normally be factoring in. And again, that’s ignoring that I’ve got another weapon set that wouldn’t benefit from Blademaster (and likely not Dual Wielding either) but would from what I’m getting out of the Strength line.

As for playing the sword the way you want to, consider using Sinister gear or taking Signet Mastery (which is amazing) and switching in some Carrion gear. You’ll have lots of power and should be able to get crit chance to wherever you want while still maintaining high condi damage. All you’ll be lacking is Ferocity, but you’ll still crit hard with FT.

Also, when you’ve reached an average crit chance of 50%, or just above, look to investing in other stats besides precision. The extra bleeds on crits (and from crit sigils) help justify going above 50%, but it won’t be long before you’re better off with something other than precision.

Choppy.4183:

Khristophoros.7194:

So yes, you’re only using it as a utility weapon to support the GS.

If MH sword was your main damage set you would want arms, so the point of my thread is that it’s obviously not viable to use for your main damage set because either lack of the right stat combo or some other factor.

Right… but you’ll notice in the post I linked I’m choosing sword over a more damaging weapon because of the utility it provides. In much the same way, I could choose a ranged weapon over a more damaging melee weapon because of what it brings. I’m also not camping my gs because the gs has it’s own limitations that the sword can partially cover.

As for damage, Arms still isn’t better for MH Sword from a straight non-condi damage point of view , even if you’re ignoring your other weapon set for some reason.

Arms:

• Blademaster (+20% crit chance)
• Dual Wielding (effectively +15% damage, assuming you’re not running shield)

Strength:

• Stick & Move (+10% damage)
• Berserker’s Power (+20% damage)

You’d take +20% crit chance over +15% actual damage when your crit chance is already over 50%? I wouldn’t.

For MH sword (as a primary damage set) you’d want both arms and strength.

I don’t buy the argument that your crit chance is “already” high enough. That means you’ve invested heavily in precision in your gear. The trait is the same as 420 precision so that’s 420 stat points you get to allocate to another stat. But that’s just in theory. In reality the stat combos limit how well you can take advantage of this. That is why I’m saying as a hybrid weapon the available stat combos aren’t working for it and that’s why it’s not viable as a main damage set.

Another thing to note is the attack speed and crit chance have some effect on your condi application but the damage traits do not. So they should be good traits for hybrid.

Oh and you get 33% bleed duration from arms as well.

In spite of all those things to benefit a hybrid sword build I don’t feel like it’s viable.

Choppy.4183:

As for playing the sword the way you want to, consider using Sinister gear or taking Signet Mastery (which is amazing) and switching in some Carrion gear. You’ll have lots of power and should be able to get crit chance to wherever you want while still maintaining high condi damage. All you’ll be lacking is Ferocity, but you’ll still hit kitten a crit with FT.

Also, when you’ve reached an average crit chance of 50%, or just above, look to investing in other stats besides precision. The extra bleeds on crits (and from crit sigils) help justify going above 50%, but it won’t be long before you’re better off with something other than precision.

I don’t see how FT would be that great when all the gear is condi primary. This weapon really reads as “hybrid leaning towards power” to me.

Khristophoros.7194:

For MH sword (as a primary damage set) you’d want both arms and strength.

I don’t buy the argument that your crit chance is “already” high enough. That means you’ve invested heavily in precision in your gear. The trait is the same as 420 precision so that’s 420 stat points you get to allocate to another stat. But that’s just in theory. In reality the stat combos limit how well you can take advantage of this. That is why I’m saying as a hybrid weapon the available stat combos aren’t working for it and that’s why it’s not viable as a main damage set.

Because all attributes suffer from diminishing returns to more you invest in them, with power having the lowest curve (due to the way the damage calc goes). Putting 420 precision in when crit chance is 10% isn’t the same as putting it in when crit chance is 70%. I happened to have zerk gear from pre-patch, hence Blademaster isn’t bringing much to the party relative to what I get from Strength.

As for running Arms and Strength, sure, that is definitely the most damaging option and I’ve actually done that too (right after patch). But there’s no way anyone should give up Discipline unless they planned on camping a weapon set (bad idea), and that would mean giving up Defense (in my build). Arms doesn’t bring as much to the table as Defense, imo. But the damage potential is undeniably higher with both Arms and Strength.

Khristophoros.7194:

Another thing to note is the attack speed and crit chance have some effect on your condi application but the damage traits do not. So they should be good traits for hybrid.

Oh and you get 33% bleed duration from arms as well.

In spite of all those things to benefit a hybrid sword build I don’t feel like it’s viable.

I don’t see how FT would be that great when all the gear is condi primary. This weapon really reads as “hybrid leaning towards power” to me.

The bleed benefits don’t help my build, which is why I didn’t factor them into the calcs. I should have factored in the +5% damage against bleeding foes though.

There’s no denying that the sword’s greatest damage potential comes with a hybrid setup, so if you want to camp swords exclusively then that’s the route to take. The gear I recommended all has power as the secondary attribute so it’ll still hit hard. I haven’t done the math to know where the breakpoint is in terms of optimal balance between condi and direct damage, but if it was too heavy into condi damage, then you could work in some zerk to get to the optimal spot. It would bring more ferocity into the equation too.

The problem with the damage potential that comes from sword bleeds is more to do with its reliance on long applications of one condi in the current meta, imo. Everyone and their dog has enough condi clear to wipe out your stacks, thereby killing your dps. But that’s not anything to do with warrior trait changes.

Getting a base of 4 bleeds per hit on the auto that run for 2s would be better than the 1 bleed for 8s it has now by a lot, whether running hybrid or condi.

Honestly though, it’s still an excellent weapon even if it’s not the best primary damage dealer.

I’ve been messing around with Sword as a hybrid and using traits and runes to make up my crit chance while using an ammy with more sustain.

It’s a work in progress but the concept is interesting.

I still have decent crit from Signet Mastery, Blademaster, Pack Runes, and Signet of Fury while having the tankyness of Carrion. Might be better to dual wield swords now that you get the CD reduction. Cele Ammy might be a decent ammy as well for the default higher crit. I really wish there was a Hybrid equivalent of Marauder’s where it’s Power + Crit + Condi with a bit of Vitality.

I do wish that Arms didn’t give vuln though, it would help me stay at just 2 condis so I could avoid necros randomly sending it all back on a crit.

Edit: Runes of the Mad King are pretty fun as well.

I just checked my warrior. Sword/Mace is my primary weapon and Longbow my secondary. I use a mix of rabid and rampager armor and my precision is 43%. My traits are Arms 2-3-3, Defense 2-3-2, and Discipline 2-3-2.

I only use the longbow if I need to range for whatever reason. Otherwise I am on Sword/Mace. This has worked very well for me. I can stack lots of bleeds on my opponents and they go down pretty quickly. I often feel practically invulnerable in my fights.

Not everybody is interested in a warrior like this, but it is effective and suits me just fine.

Want to make clear this is for pve. I have no idea how this would do in pvp, and couldn’t care less.

S/sh & GS with a little s/s & GS mixed in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNxuQNH4dvk

s/s & gs (power)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jONo8Qpdetg

I think sword is a good as its even been for power. For condition it is weaker just because condition warrior is overall just weaker than it was before the patch.

Sword is still pretty amazing in a celestial build.paired with a shield, warhorn or another sword and longbow.

KittyRiv.5291:

I think sword is a good as its even been for power. For condition it is weaker just because condition warrior is overall just weaker than it was before the patch.

Power Sword??? Sorry, i’m a bit new to this game and never thought that swords can be used as a Power build. But how much dmg would i loose, if i completely ignore condi stats on my Sword/s?

Sword works very well in a power build, you have to also take the utility that it brings into account instead of just the dmg

Great video, Holl!
But what about Swords as main weapons for dungeons?

Sifu.9745:

Great video, Holl!
But what about Swords as main weapons for dungeons?

U will use them but as a revenant

I ’ve run for quite long with swords. In the past as pure condi build but in the recent months as a hybrid build.

No matter what, anyone who brings a sword alongside a GS or Hammer as part of a power build can’t claim that he is using the sword as a damaging weapon in equal degree with GS or Hammer. In such cases sword is a supplementary dmg source and/or a utility weapon. A sword surely can deal respectable dmg in a fully Zerker build but you won’t see its full damage potential.

In my opinion post-patch sword remains more or less at the same place as it was pre-patch and THIS is the actual problem. I consider this to be the main problem since that many things in game (condis other than bleed, skills & traits of other profs) got boosted post-patch leaving sword behind. So its not actually “sword’s fault”, its that A.Net didn’t boost or didn’t boost it enough.

If you want details coninue below….
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Having in mind that certain professions got their burst dmg boosted and/or having access to ridiculous amounts of Burns left the warrior’s ability to soak up damage lacking. This indirectly affects the Warrior’s sword builds which, as relying partially to long condis, requires more time to kill an opponent.

The weapon skills remained the same with a bug on Sword F1 skill described here (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Warrior-Sword-burst-skill-Flurry/first#post5345920). The Arms specialization is better designed with some buffs and some slight nerfs (bleed duration buff, dmg on bleed foes) that makes it not exceptionally effective.

In particular:

Sword #1: It still inflicts a single and somewhat unnecessarily long bleed stack. It starts with 8secs which easily reach or surpass 16secs if you take the appropriate sigil, runes & food. It would be better to inflict 2 stacks of bleeding for 4 secs.

Sword #3: The Final Thrust is OK but what I think would make it better is a slight faster activation time (1/2 sec instead of 3/4).

Sword #4/1(Impale): Impale, although having a good concept (reapplication of Torment), its not what it seems (at least not what Skill description says). It has a pretty weird way to function and there are 2 things that plagues it. First, as a physical projectile, its rather slow thus easily avoidable (not to mention that sometimes it seems to be obscured by even …thin air). Second, which is a bigger issue, is that the Torment damage isn’t what the skill description says. Althought skill description says you apply 5 stacks of Torment, the stacks actually escalate from 1-5 (sometimes 1-4) and the 5 stacks stays for maybe ~5secs (with no +condi duration buffs). The whole amount of damage isn’t delivered in 8secs, as description says, but in 11secs instead. The “reapplication” is for 4 secs which means that a smart player will remove the condition after 4secs and will actually get approx 1/4 of the damage in the skill description. So the torment effect is rather long (11secs) but it doesn’t deliver additional damage due to the escalate and fade-out effect. It would be better to start out with 5 stacks and all of them actually last for 8secs. The reapplication should occur for 4secs (1sec interval) with a 5 stack cap.

Sword #4/2(Rip): Good damage but 3/4sec activation makes it too easily avoidable (though dodge/evade and blind in some cases)

Sword #5/1 (Riposte): A block that will apply a good 4 stacks of Bleeding for rather long (12sec) if it blocks a melee attack (end when block a single melee attack). The bleeds are easily avoidable if opponent is using area blind or aegis.

Sword #5/2 (Adrenaline Rush): The extra adrenaline effect will only occur if you you this skill. Canceling with another skill, switch weapon set or dodge will grant you nothing. Not that fair imho.

Arms Specialization : The most notable nerfs are the bleed duration reduction (+50% -> +33%) on Bloodlust, which maybe somewhat justified. What I don’t get is the +5% damage buff against bleeding enemies which was originally +10%. Maybe a solid +10% on any bleeding foe would be too much if conbined with Strength traits (could easily be used by power warriors wielding GS or Axe), but at least they could give this “missing” +5% on Blade Master trait which would further promote sword as a hybrid weapon without letting warriors having enormous damage boosts with every weapon.
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Sry for the long post but I think someone should mention these.