Guild Wars 2

You should only stun yourself, if you succeed in Stunning your opponent. Increase its range to 300. Give it a short targeted rush forward. (Like bullrush or heartseeker.)

That is all.

PvP players will thank you.

Just saying.

It’s mindless that it stuns you too. There is zero point for it to do this when no other profession is penalized like this.

The only ways headbutt works currently are:
1. With some source of stability (so, either burn your balanced stance or berserk with eternal champion- which kinda defeats the purpose of the 30 adrenaline gain on Headbutt).

2. With EC, wait until you’re CCed and then use Headbutt to proc the stab on stunbreak. This may have been the intended way to use it (it seems to me as such), but this means both limiting the skill’s offensive uses and requiring EC.

In either case, the skill is a bit lackluster, all told. I like it for flavor reasons, but at the very least it would be nice if it popped the adrenaline gain even on a miss.

No other elite on our bars penalize you, not just for STUNNING you, but render it COMPLETELY useless for the next 20 seconds if it gets dodged/missed/blocked/invulnerabledbeled/out-of-ranged. It is not fun, and I mean NOT fun when an elite skill works 1/5 times, no matter how good you are at predicting your opponents. 20 seconds might seem like a good cooldown to balance things off at… but no, it’s not. It does not do it justice. I might as well take Rampage or Signet of Rage that cannot miss, and cannot get out of range….

Design wise, and flavor wise, berserker is beautiful in its simplicity, Robert did a great job imo… BUT it’s all about number tweaking, bug fixing and range adjusting… and like.. badly.

Warlord.9074:

It’s mindless that it stuns you too. There is zero point for it to do this when no other profession is penalized like this.

There’s plenty of point to it, and it works to our advantage since it makes rousing resilience worth taking.

Headbutt is one of the few things that the Berserker spec actually has going for it, it lets you land a full 100blades on an enemy not to mention the headbutt itself hits like a truck. 5k crits on mara amulet.

Also since it is a stun break you can turn a situation around on someone, plenty of times have i gotten cced only to break it with headbutt which also makes you immune to the stun of headbutt itself.

But yeah, to some specs like mine removing the self stun would actually be a nerf :P

Warlord.9074:

It’s mindless that it stuns you too. There is zero point for it to do this when no other profession is penalized like this.

I disagree. I like the self stun… you did, after all, smack someone in the dome… with your dome for some odd 3000dmg. So a mutual stun seems to make perfect sense.

The issues really, are twofold.

A. Is the whiplash from head butting at someone as bad as the impact? I think not, hence, no hit, no self stun. Fixed.

B. It’s way to easy to miss. So, give it a little targeted gap closer to ensure that when you hit the button, it hits the target.

I don’t think you should look at the self stun as a penalty. After all, being able to stun the enemy, and the pop berserk right away afterwards, drop whatever f1 skill on their face, and have that ready again in 20 sec, means that each encounter, you’ll have a guaranteed way to get berserk mode up, and it allows us to think about opening combos with burst on a stationary target with full adrenaline.

The self stun only hurts, if you miss. The changes I suggest make sure that either:

A. You don’t get screwed by a miss, or a clever opponents dodge roll.

B. You miss less often.

My proposed changes may even make it too strong, requiring a longer CD. That, however, remains to be seen.

Agreed, self stun is good. I do however think the range should be increased – maybe not as far as the proportions of bulls rush but something like a 300-600 range.

Not to sound like a shrink but please someone explain to me the thought process behind thinking that a stun to yourself not only good but also justifiable. Justifiable as in comparing Headbutt to other skills in the game that are similar.

Also please dont give me a some sort of logical justification like well in real life u head butt someone it hurts lol this is a game not real life and if we applied that logic to this game it would fail in every other example.

Warlord.9074:

Not to sound like a shrink but please someone explain to me the thought process behind thinking that a stun to yourself not only good but also justifiable. Justifiable as in comparing Headbutt to other skills in the game that are similar.

Also please dont give me a some sort of logical justification like well in real life u head butt someone it hurts lol this is a game not real life and if we applied that logic to this game it would fail in every other example.

Because headbutt is a very powerful skill. It can stun for a long time, break stun, a movement skill(remove immobile with trait), fully recharge adrenaline, and a short CD. Having a self stun is just a way to make it less OP. But the short range of it does make it a bit harder to land.

Warlord.9074:

Not to sound like a shrink but please someone explain to me the thought process behind thinking that a stun to yourself not only good but also justifiable. Justifiable as in comparing Headbutt to other skills in the game that are similar.

Also please dont give me a some sort of logical justification like well in real life u head butt someone it hurts lol this is a game not real life and if we applied that logic to this game it would fail in every other example.

I feel the need to point out, you asked for reason, then forbid a logical answer. I would recommend a re analysis of your epistemology.

Sarcasm aside, as the above poster mentioned, it’s really strong.

But the fact of the matter is, it is based on the idea of the reality of landing a hard headbutt on someone.

Now, that said… could they remove the self stun, and change what negative there is to balance the positive of the move? Sure.

Should they? No! Why? It’s cool!

Not a great reason to be sure, but bluntly, I like it.

Really the only issue is landing the move against a highly mobile target…

And the fact that: headbutts that miss, just don’t hurt the headbutter.

My only real issue with this skill is that sometimes the pathfinding on it is unreliable.

Even with the self stun, it is a 2 second stun on a 20 second CD that can crit for high numbers and if you DO have traits like EC or just Outrage it’s a 3 second CD. That’s a free 100b right there.

it also fills your adrenaline so you can instantly go Berserk, if you have Savage Instinct that makes you break the stun as well. With a rifle that means a free Gun Flame or Decapitate or Arc Divider.

If they make it more consistent, it’s a pretty solid elite, I think it needs that downside to be balanced.

I’d be happy if Headbutt actually hit more than 1/6 of the time.

Stun myself? At the cost of the other dude stun breaking.. making the attack useless. No thanks

I’d rather not stun myself =D

Gambino.2109:

Stun myself? At the cost of the other dude stun breaking.. making the attack useless. No thanks

I’d rather not stun myself =D

We got a 10 second CD stun breaker and a trait that breaks stun if you go Berserk after landing it ANY a trait that makes it give you Stability if you use it as a stun break AND that same trait pulses Stability while going Berserk. It’s hardly a issue in my experience, just pathfinding.

And with the self-stun you can make great use of Rousing Resilience. The idea is good, it’s just a problem that you miss it too often and that RR can hardly be taken with Last Stand and CI as alternatives in that tier.

Also, as a bit of trivia, this isn’t the -only- warrior skill we’ve ever had that had self-inflicted negative effects. The devs probably based this skill on GW1 Headbutt. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Headbutt

Now, I never got that one when I briefly played GW1, so I don’t know how well balanced it was, but there’s a precedent at least.

The self-stun makes a ton of sense, considering that we also get a stunbreak on a 10s cooldown. Not to mention that we can also make Berserk break stuns. It’s basically designed for being an opener for a Berserk burst.

And negative effects on skills is nothing new, Necros have Corruptions. And their point is exactly the same: Give yourself a debuff in exchange for a buff or giving yourself enemy a worse debuff. Hell, they even have a trait that makes all corruptions give yourself more conditions.

Warlord.9074:

It’s mindless that it stuns you too. There is zero point for it to do this when no other profession is penalized like this.

Necro corruption skills