Guild Wars 2

Thoughts on this skill? Just need a place to come and vent. Find it unbelievable the amount of survivability this single-handedly gives warriors, even if they are full zerk or close to. Not to mention multiple blocks/invulnerabilities to top it all off. Just really frustrated at the moment with where warriors lie compared to the other classes. Just seems a bit much. Tired of losing to every warrior in WvW who can hit me insanely hard, and I can’t even get him to half health with the regen from the signet, being a nearly full zerk s/d thief. Unbelievable.

Feel free to discuss

1/10. You not even trying.

1/10 not even worth the effort to reply reasonably to.

Please elaborate. I made valid points, at least make an argument against them if you are going to refute them?

When has warrior ever gotten nerfed? And to the ground? The Dec 10 update will be the first noticeable difference to warriors in a long time.

Rascalking.9845:

When has warrior ever gotten nerfed? And to the ground? The Dec 10 update will be the first noticeable difference to warriors in a long time.

In beta testing one of the biggest and most notable nerfs was the burst damage from 30% to 3% in discipline. Moving Berserker’s Power from an adept trait to a grandmaster trait was overall a nerf to a warrior’s killing power, ensuring that warriors never use the strength tree.

Think about it. Why have warriors received so many buffs? More so than any other class? Because for a good chunk of the first year this game was out they were the most useless class in sPvP, in WvW there is no reason you wouldn’t choose a thief, ranger, d/d ele and mesmer over a warrior in roaming. They were pretty much only great for dungeons and below average to average in zergs.

Maybe you would actually get a decent response from other people if you weren’t so quick to berating the warrior community.

And being a zerk S/D thief. That is your problem right there.

While healing signet is good now (and very appreciated, I’ve been using it since launch when it was pretty bad) it isn’t overpowering compared to the other warrior healing skills. The math is pretty simple to do. So you may want to do it instead of just saying Healing Sig is too powerful.

Off the top of my head (if I remember correctly), in a 30 sec fight:
15 sec of poison causes Healing Sig to be equivalent to Healing Surge, but change the duration of the fight and you can easily skew the favor in towards either healing skill.

And to do a quick “comparison” to other classes (ie. purposeful over simplification).
Theives can end/reset any fight by stealthing and then running/fully healing
Mesmers can avoid lots of damage thanks to their clones/stealth
Guards: Also have a bunch of healing/regen/protection/aegis (never bothered to compare warrior healing to guard healing)
Ranger: Also have a great healing skill, very limited stealth, and snares/roots for kiting and a pet to take some hits.
Ele: Not too familiar with the D/D skills (I have my alt run staff), but they have access to passive healing and regen/boons/summons/evade skills.
Necro: A second health bar and minions/healing skills/fear.
Engi: Haven’t played an engi yet, but from what I’ve seen their turrets seem to give decent healing/snares, and they have their own block/invu moves.

Another over simplification (I don’t really want to do any math right now), other classes also healing on their weapons skills or innate healing utilities (and yes I know those can’t be compared directly to healing sig. I’m just trying to say that sustain/mitigation is there on other classes just in different forms).

Finally, a zerker warrior is almost as squishy as any light armor class. They only have a 13.68% DR compared to a scholar (and about 8k more hp compared to those with the lowest tier HP).

See, Rascal, this is how warriors reply to the fact that their healing skill heals for at least 50 points more than every other classes’ best healing skill, and yet they still get heavy armor.

Arganthium.5638:

See, Rascal, this is how warriors reply to the fact that their healing skill heals for at least 50 points more than every other classes’ best healing skill, and yet they still get heavy armor.

And without protection, stealth and perma vigor… That Warriors….

Arganthium.5638:

See, Rascal, this is how warriors reply to the fact that their healing skill heals for at least 50 points more than every other classes’ best healing skill, and yet they still get heavy armor.

Some ppl acts like heavy armor which is limited to look automatically provides +50% damage reduction for being heavy.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arganthium.5638:

See, Rascal, this is how warriors reply to the fact that their healing skill heals for at least 50 points more than every other classes’ best healing skill, and yet they still get heavy armor.

And without protection, stealth and perma vigor… That Warriors….

Perhaps I should’ve added “per second”?

Anyways, protection never lasts long, and stealth has been said to be counterable by virtually every non stealth-using professional I’ve met. You do, however, get a fair bit of mobility with your skills, some decent condition removal (especially compared to classes like mesmer), CC everywhere, and the highest skill coefficients in the game (3.75 for a kill shot, and Volley isn’t far behind). That’s on top of having conditions greatly reduced in length, invulnerability, and plenty of stability.

Scoobaniec.9561:

Arganthium.5638:

See, Rascal, this is how warriors reply to the fact that their healing skill heals for at least 50 points more than every other classes’ best healing skill, and yet they still get heavy armor.

Some ppl acts like heavy armor which is limited to look automatically provides +50% damage reduction for being heavy.

But heavy armor and higher HP with limited healing/boon options makes us totally OP!

To be fair, it’s possible to get ~50% DR, but that’s if you go full toughness, and then you hit like a wet noodle and that’s compared to a scholar with no toughness (who’s most likely zerker and will still do more damage to you than your armor/toughness can mitigate).

For zerkers, heavy armor vs. light is about 14% DR, but medium vs. light gets ~7% DR but no one seems to complain about that.

Arganthium.5638:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arganthium.5638:

See, Rascal, this is how warriors reply to the fact that their healing skill heals for at least 50 points more than every other classes’ best healing skill, and yet they still get heavy armor.

And without protection, stealth and perma vigor… That Warriors….

Perhaps I should’ve added “pre second”?

Anyways, protection never lasts long, and stealth has been said to be counterable by virtually every non stealth-using professional I’ve met. You do, however, get a fair bit of mobility with your skills, some decent condition removal (especially compared to classes like mesmer), CC everywhere, and the highest skill coefficients in the game (3.75 for a kill shot, and Volley isn’t far behind). That’s on top of having conditions greatly reduced in length, invulnerability, and plenty of stability.

Yes, because every warrior knows rifle is the best ranged weapon in the game. Ha! There are plenty of classes that can keep protection up for a significant amount of time by the way.

Arganthium.5638:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arganthium.5638:

See, Rascal, this is how warriors reply to the fact that their healing skill heals for at least 50 points more than every other classes’ best healing skill, and yet they still get heavy armor.

And without protection, stealth and perma vigor… That Warriors….

Perhaps I should’ve added “pre second”?

Anyways, protection never lasts long, and stealth has been said to be counterable by virtually every non stealth-using professional I’ve met. You do, however, get a fair bit of mobility with your skills, some decent condition removal (especially compared to classes like mesmer), CC everywhere, and the highest skill coefficients in the game (3.75 for a kill shot, and Volley isn’t far behind). That’s on top of having conditions greatly reduced in length, invulnerability, and plenty of stability.

I know… warriors have everything other classes want… except protection, stealth, perma vigor, pets, phantasms and clones, lets cal that AI, pulls (only gap closers, underwater combat doesn´t count).
Anyways stability can be removed / changed into condition and warrior dont have a single invulnerability skill/utility.
I almost never lose to a warrior with my mesmer/thief (sometimes i lose ofc, but they play way better than me) so i find hard to believe that top players have that big problems with warriors when they have access to blind spam and remove / corrupt boons. They should by now be able to counter their stuns (with this the uptime the warrior have to regen health between CC) the same way they can counter stealth. And if some player dont see a warrior with berserker stance up its the players fault. That skill only last 8/10 seconds max with 50 seconds downtime. Its the same thing that using your high damage skills to someone with invulnerability (true invul)

And yes i agree with you that mesmer need a litle more condition removal (and i think they will get it in 10th december, but still my berserker mesmer is way more viable than my berserker warrior.

Arganthium.5638:

See, Rascal, this is how warriors reply to the fact that their healing skill heals for at least 50 points more than every other classes’ best healing skill, and yet they still get heavy armor.

Lol your that guy saying Combustive shot is getting a buff..
After that you say: Increasing burning duration compensates the raw damage nerf.

Both are wrong answers.

Arganthium.5638:

See, Rascal, this is how warriors reply to the fact that their healing skill heals for at least 50 points more than every other classes’ best healing skill, and yet they still get heavy armor.

Too bad everything you say on paper (having heavy armor, a strong healing signet, the highest base HP, great condition removal) doesn’t translate into the warrior being the most OP class.

I think alot of people here said it best. No stealth, no AI, no perma-vigor, no protection, average overall healing, low evasiveness, easily telegraphed skills.

killahmayne.9518:

I think alot of people here said it best. No stealth, no AI, no perma-vigor, no protection, average overall healing, low evasiveness, easily telegraphed skills.

Really? Your argument is that warriors can’t stealth (why would a heavy armored character stealth?), can’t use vigor (the whole point of the class is to be able to take the hits, no need to dodge them), average healing (tell that to a mesmer, thief, or necro), and easily telegraphed skills? (of course they should be telegraphed if they stun for 3 seconds and do 5k+ damage)

An engineer is tankier………… just sayin…..

Rascalking.9845:

killahmayne.9518:

I think alot of people here said it best. No stealth, no AI, no perma-vigor, no protection, average overall healing, low evasiveness, easily telegraphed skills.

Really? Your argument is that warriors can’t stealth (why would a heavy armored character stealth?), can’t use vigor (the whole point of the class is to be able to take the hits, no need to dodge them), average healing (tell that to a mesmer, thief, or necro), and easily telegraphed skills? (of course they should be telegraphed if they stun for 3 seconds and do 5k+ damage)

yes, i would totally have all those skills+in fight mobility that prevent me from being damaged and have a low cd healing skill with nice utility that heals me for 50% in case if i get hit.
warrior will be op on a whole new level, just saying.

hey actually, you totally make sense, 18k hp+heavy+alot of healing=op, no wonder warriors used to be free kill tier and gets destroyed by mesmers even now, you are smart.

man, you must be the best player with tons of knowledge, i’m impressed.

Rascalking.9845:

killahmayne.9518:

I think alot of people here said it best. No stealth, no AI, no perma-vigor, no protection, average overall healing, low evasiveness, easily telegraphed skills.

Really? Your argument is that warriors can’t stealth (why would a heavy armored character stealth?), can’t use vigor (the whole point of the class is to be able to take the hits, no need to dodge them), average healing (tell that to a mesmer, thief, or necro), and easily telegraphed skills? (of course they should be telegraphed if they stun for 3 seconds and do 5k+ damage)

You just answered your self with your answer. Now think.

Rascalking.9845:

killahmayne.9518:

I think alot of people here said it best. No stealth, no AI, no perma-vigor, no protection, average overall healing, low evasiveness, easily telegraphed skills.

Really? Your argument is that warriors can’t stealth (why would a heavy armored character stealth?), can’t use vigor (the whole point of the class is to be able to take the hits, no need to dodge them), average healing (tell that to a mesmer, thief, or necro), and easily telegraphed skills? (of course they should be telegraphed if they stun for 3 seconds and do 5k+ damage)

Which is exactly the point I am trying to make. We can’t do these things BECAUSE we are a Heavy Armor class with the highest base HP. It is called a tradeoff. You come here searching for answers yet you misunderstand everything that is being told to you. So I don’t get what your argument is or what you are trying to prove when you have already acknowledged that the warrior lack these things.

And by the way, saying that we have a 3 second stun that does 5K+ damage like you say (by this I am assuming it is the mace stun you are talking about) is like saying a thief’s back stab does 15K+ damage. It does nowhere near that much damage on a decently armored target.

killahmayne.9518:

Rascalking.9845:

killahmayne.9518:

I think alot of people here said it best. No stealth, no AI, no perma-vigor, no protection, average overall healing, low evasiveness, easily telegraphed skills.

Really? Your argument is that warriors can’t stealth (why would a heavy armored character stealth?), can’t use vigor (the whole point of the class is to be able to take the hits, no need to dodge them), average healing (tell that to a mesmer, thief, or necro), and easily telegraphed skills? (of course they should be telegraphed if they stun for 3 seconds and do 5k+ damage)

Which is exactly the point I am trying to make. We can’t do these things BECAUSE we are a Heavy Armor class with the highest base HP. It is called a tradeoff. You come here searching for answers yet you misunderstand everything that is being told to you. So I don’t get what your argument is or what you are trying to prove when you have already acknowledged that the warrior lack these things.

And by the way, saying that we have a 3 second stun that does 5K+ damage like you say (by this I am assuming it is the mace stun you are talking about) is like saying a thief’s back stab does 15K+ damage. It does nowhere near that much damage on a decently armored target.

NO.perma vigor,stealth,blocks,clones etc acould easily be the equivalent of 50k hp or more.I would gladly trade 5 k of my hp and throw in an extra of other 1k just for the lolz for any of those abilities,just saying.Game does not work like you think it does .

Rascalking.9845:

Tired of losing to every warrior in WvW who can hit me insanely hard, and I can’t even get him to half health with the regen from the signet, being a nearly full zerk s/d thief. Unbelievable.

Feel free to discuss

Then perhaps you are doing something wrong. I’ve been beaten by many. Some win some loose against me. Perhaps the problem isn’t with the class or ability and is perhaps with you if as you say,“Tired of losing to every warrior” the only constant there is you.

McSlappy.1372:

Then perhaps you are doing something wrong. I’ve been beaten by many. Some win some loose against me. Perhaps the problem isn’t with the class or ability and is perhaps with you if as you say,“Tired of losing to every warrior” the only constant there is you.

Every warrior. Seems like a constant to me.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arganthium.5638:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arganthium.5638:

See, Rascal, this is how warriors reply to the fact that their healing skill heals for at least 50 points more than every other classes’ best healing skill, and yet they still get heavy armor.

And without protection, stealth and perma vigor… That Warriors….

Perhaps I should’ve added “pre second”?

Anyways, protection never lasts long, and stealth has been said to be counterable by virtually every non stealth-using professional I’ve met. You do, however, get a fair bit of mobility with your skills, some decent condition removal (especially compared to classes like mesmer), CC everywhere, and the highest skill coefficients in the game (3.75 for a kill shot, and Volley isn’t far behind). That’s on top of having conditions greatly reduced in length, invulnerability, and plenty of stability.

I know… warriors have everything other classes want… except protection, stealth, perma vigor, pets, phantasms and clones, lets cal that AI, pulls (only gap closers, underwater combat doesn´t count).
Anyways stability can be removed / changed into condition and warrior dont have a single invulnerability skill/utility.
I almost never lose to a warrior with my mesmer/thief (sometimes i lose ofc, but they play way better than me) so i find hard to believe that top players have that big problems with warriors when they have access to blind spam and remove / corrupt boons. They should by now be able to counter their stuns (with this the uptime the warrior have to regen health between CC) the same way they can counter stealth. And if some player dont see a warrior with berserker stance up its the players fault. That skill only last 8/10 seconds max with 50 seconds downtime. Its the same thing that using your high damage skills to someone with invulnerability (true invul)

And yes i agree with you that mesmer need a litle more condition removal (and i think they will get it in 10th december, but still my berserker mesmer is way more viable than my berserker warrior.

It’s ironic that you say that things like protection (which usually is extremely limited in length) and vigor (to my knowledge, there are no builds that can get perma-vigor. I play S/D thief and I know that they don’t) are great, but stability isn’t because it can be stolen or turned into a condition.

How are people still complaining about stealth? I laugh at it nowadays- it’s ridiculously easy to counter.

Phantasms and clones don’t do that much damage, unless you allow them to…

And anyhow, none of this has anything to do with the fact that your prof gets both heavy armor and an insanely powerful passive heal.

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

An engineer is tankier………… just sayin…..

It can be tankier. A warrior can build to be far tankier as well, but many builds don’t go that route.

killahmayne.9518:

Arganthium.5638:

See, Rascal, this is how warriors reply to the fact that their healing skill heals for at least 50 points more than every other classes’ best healing skill, and yet they still get heavy armor.

Too bad everything you say on paper (having heavy armor, a strong healing signet, the highest base HP, great condition removal) doesn’t translate into the warrior being the most OP class.

I think alot of people here said it best. No stealth, no AI, no perma-vigor, no protection, average overall healing, low evasiveness, easily telegraphed skills.

Oh? How doesn’kitten There are many, many things that you people are leaving out. Perhaps you’ve forgotten all of the ways that stealth can be countered, although, then again, I can’t imagine half of you have the brain cells required to do anything other than whine. AI are a joke, and have either been nerfed to an acceptable level or cease to exist- that, or they’re contributors to a couple of particularly OP builds in the two other OP professions. Nobody has perma vigor, and even if they did, that means nothing- I can also not get hit by any of your attacks by simply not playing the game. Protection hardly lasts anyways, and I don’t see many other professions with a block that lasts three seconds on a thirty second cool down, combined with a stun that can hit you from a range and make certain combinations possible.

Your healing is not average overall, except, perhaps, in comparison to the entirety of a guard’s healing (who does very little damage anyways); in fact, your healing skill, on passive, heals for more than any other profession in the game in terms of HPS, and heals for more than both VoResolve and the Guardian’s best heal combined. You heal for over 100 more health per second than my profession does, and, on top of that, you have both heavy and 3000 more health than thieves do anyways. I can actually run berserker builds with your heal on your prof, and live in the middle of a fight because I’m healing for +400 health per second. The amount of damage that I can do with a warrior while not having to evade constantly is far, far more than I could ever do on my S/D thief. For that reason, hell, you don’t even need to evade. Not when you can stand in the middle of a fight, spamming buttons, and taking practically no damage.

And finally, telegraphed skills mean nothing when you’re stunned without a stunbreaker, or when there are so many of them that you’re eventually going to miss out on one.

Oh? How doesn’kitten There are many, many things that you people are leaving out. Perhaps you’ve forgotten all of the ways that stealth can be countered, although, then again, I can’t imagine half of you have the brain cells required to do anything other than whine. AI are a joke, and have either been nerfed to an acceptable level or cease to exist- that, or they’re contributors to a couple of particularly OP builds in the two other OP professions. Nobody has perma vigor, and even if they did, that means nothing- I can also not get hit by any of your attacks by simply not playing the game. Protection hardly lasts anyways, and I don’t see many other professions with a block that lasts three seconds on a thirty second cool down, combined with a stun that can hit you from a range and make certain combinations possible.

Well then can you explain why warriors were considered the worst tPvP profession even with having the highest base armor + highest HP in the game? And having a 2 second AoE hammer stun? Even now they aren’t even the best tPvP profession and they only have one build that works well (hambow build).

I and many people already have explained why heavy armor + healing signet + highest HP doesn’t make warriors OP. Because there are many things that this class lacks that others have. Isn’t anybody’s fault that you won’t acknowledge that and grossly overestimate having high base stats.

Just as there are counters to stealth, there are counters to Healing Signet and countless other counters to warriors themselves as a class. Maybe you don’t have the brain cells to figure that out.

Guardians have vigorous precision, slap on some boon duration and there you go. Not counting other boons that they have that can also give them vigor.

If I am not mistaken elementalists also have that same exact trait.

Rangers can achieve kitten near perma vigor, and they also have a 50% endurance regen trait for just 5 points in their defensive trait line. And yes having 100% uptime on vigor does mean something, it means an extra dodge every 5 seconds. I can’t run full berserker warrior if i don’t play the game right?

You say AI is a joke yet you counter your own argument by saying there are 2 other OP professions who make use of it. My point I am trying to say here is Warriors don’t rely on things like minions, clones and pets to do damage while they can just kite and survive like certain other builds.

Protection hardly lasts lol ….? Eles every time they attune to earth they get like 7 seconds of protection. Rangers get 2 seconds of protection closer to every 5 seconds. Guardians have a gazillion ways to apply protection. And its a 33% damage reduction, with little investment in some cases. Where as to achieve 33% damage reduction through armor requires a huge investment. Why do you think people are opposed to warriors getting protection?

Engi’s have a 3 second block that is on a 20 second cooldown? What is your point. They can also stun from range as well, if not a comparable or longer range and it isn’t as telegraphed as a hammer. So pretty much you want classes to not have anything unique about them that defines them as a class. That is like saying OMG thieves can stealth and hit for 12K I don’t see any other class doing that.

Your healing is not average overall, except, perhaps, in comparison to the entirety of a guard’s healing (who does very little damage anyways); in fact, your healing skill, on passive, heals for more than any other profession in the game in terms of HPS, and heals for more than both VoResolve and the Guardian’s best heal combined. You heal for over 100 more health per second than my profession does, and, on top of that, you have both heavy and 3000 more health than thieves do anyways. I can actually run berserker builds with your heal on your prof, and live in the middle of a fight because I’m healing for +400 health per second. The amount of damage that I can do with a warrior while not having to evade constantly is far, far more than I could ever do on my S/D thief. For that reason, hell, *you don’t even need to evade*. Not when you can stand in the middle of a fight, spamming buttons, and taking practically no damage.

Like I said before, Healing Signet might be strong for ONE skill, but other than going shout build, that is our own source of healing in most cases. Eles easily heal for me, Guardians easily heal for more, Engis easily can heal for more. Although it may take more than one skill, it is a minimal investment. So you are saying none of these classes can easily heal for more then 400 HPS?

While full berserker isn’t the ideal build for thieves, I dont have a huge problem surviving in the middle of a fight as a thief, not with the amount of stealth and evasion I have at my disposal. Anybody can survive in the middle of a fight if they know what they are doing so what is your point, you act like warriors are the only one capable of doing that while going full berserker. You are just whining like how you claim we as the warrior community are doing. Any full zerker class with 1000+ range can sit in the safety of a zerg and do damage without taking much damage or dieing.

And finally, telegraphed skills mean nothing when you’re stunned without a stunbreaker, or when there are so many of them that you’re eventually going to miss out on one.

And lastly telegraphed skills do mean something. Just imagine if Earthshaker was an instacast. How many players have complained about the mace not having a foreseeable animation when the stun is used? The hammer stun on average is used every 10 seconds. A class with vigor gets a dodge every 7.5 seconds. And that isn’t including other evasive skills. You literally have enough time to run out of Earthshaker’s range before it lands you don’t even need to dodge, that is how simple it is avoid. You have plenty of time to pop a blind, an aegis and that warrior is screwed if they don’t land earthshaker. Because they don’t have any gap closers after that unless they switch weapons. And that isn’t including how many classes will pack at least 1 stability and 1-2 stunbreakers.

Rascalking.9845:

killahmayne.9518:

oh, its one of those “healing signet is OP and i got owned by a warrior lets complain and QQ on the warrior subforums and hope ANet nerfs them to the ground again” fanboys.

I thought those guys finally moved on with their lives.

When has warrior ever gotten nerfed? And to the ground? The Dec 10 update will be the first noticeable difference to warriors in a long time.

Remember when Heightened focus and Berserker’s Might were moved to gradmaster traits?

Of course you don’t.

Healing signet is fine – it allows for passive sustain that makes warriors viable. If it wasn’t the case warriors would be the joke of any combat situation – as was the case before it was buffed.

Almost all other classes have some gimmick mechanic that ensures their survivability. Warriors have none – except this one skill. And since it is a skill rather than a game mechanic people are spamming " nerf x skill " – because they can’t understand that warrior has to have a high amount of passive sustain with little investment in order to remain viable.

If you want to take HS out – sure – but why not take out thief stealth or mesmer clones while you’re at it.
Because those are class mechanics and ours is a skill – but in reality both do the same thing – make their respective classes viable.

You want to fight HS – use poison ; use bursts.
I’ve beaten every class in WvW as a warrior and i’ve also lost to every class. It’s a matter of player skill. You posting that " you lost to a warrior " and " you’re getting tired of it " is no valid reason for any change.

If that were the case I would post that " mesmers are so distracting and stuff nerf them more" and what ? Anet would nerf mesmers? Why?

Arganthium.5638:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arganthium.5638:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arganthium.5638:

See, Rascal, this is how warriors reply to the fact that their healing skill heals for at least 50 points more than every other classes’ best healing skill, and yet they still get heavy armor.

And without protection, stealth and perma vigor… That Warriors….

Perhaps I should’ve added “pre second”?

Anyways, protection never lasts long, and stealth has been said to be counterable by virtually every non stealth-using professional I’ve met. You do, however, get a fair bit of mobility with your skills, some decent condition removal (especially compared to classes like mesmer), CC everywhere, and the highest skill coefficients in the game (3.75 for a kill shot, and Volley isn’t far behind). That’s on top of having conditions greatly reduced in length, invulnerability, and plenty of stability.

I know… warriors have everything other classes want… except protection, stealth, perma vigor, pets, phantasms and clones, lets cal that AI, pulls (only gap closers, underwater combat doesn´t count).
Anyways stability can be removed / changed into condition and warrior dont have a single invulnerability skill/utility.
I almost never lose to a warrior with my mesmer/thief (sometimes i lose ofc, but they play way better than me) so i find hard to believe that top players have that big problems with warriors when they have access to blind spam and remove / corrupt boons. They should by now be able to counter their stuns (with this the uptime the warrior have to regen health between CC) the same way they can counter stealth. And if some player dont see a warrior with berserker stance up its the players fault. That skill only last 8/10 seconds max with 50 seconds downtime. Its the same thing that using your high damage skills to someone with invulnerability (true invul)

And yes i agree with you that mesmer need a litle more condition removal (and i think they will get it in 10th december, but still my berserker mesmer is way more viable than my berserker warrior.

It’s ironic that you say that things like protection (which usually is extremely limited in length) and vigor (to my knowledge, there are no builds that can get perma-vigor. I play S/D thief and I know that they don’t) are great, but stability isn’t because it can be stolen or turned into a condition.

How are people still complaining about stealth? I laugh at it nowadays- it’s ridiculously easy to counter.

Phantasms and clones don’t do that much damage, unless you allow them to…

And anyhow, none of this has anything to do with the fact that your prof gets both heavy armor and an insanely powerful passive heal.

Well i trully hope that you were tired when you wrote this because there are builds with perma vigor in some classes.
I´m not compalining about stealth, because i know how to fight a thief, (notice that i´m not saying i can counter stealth, i just know how to fight thiefs and i dont win all the time).
And i was saying that right now people should know how to fight warriors, the same way that i learned to fight thiefs.
There are some issues with thief right now (blind spam/evades/damage while in stealth) but you can work around them. Its the same on warriors.

You should read this post.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Too-many-new-warriors-or-what

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arganthium.5638:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arganthium.5638:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arganthium.5638:

See, Rascal, this is how warriors reply to the fact that their healing skill heals for at least 50 points more than every other classes’ best healing skill, and yet they still get heavy armor.

And without protection, stealth and perma vigor… That Warriors….

Perhaps I should’ve added “pre second”?

Anyways, protection never lasts long, and stealth has been said to be counterable by virtually every non stealth-using professional I’ve met. You do, however, get a fair bit of mobility with your skills, some decent condition removal (especially compared to classes like mesmer), CC everywhere, and the highest skill coefficients in the game (3.75 for a kill shot, and Volley isn’t far behind). That’s on top of having conditions greatly reduced in length, invulnerability, and plenty of stability.

I know… warriors have everything other classes want… except protection, stealth, perma vigor, pets, phantasms and clones, lets cal that AI, pulls (only gap closers, underwater combat doesn´t count).
Anyways stability can be removed / changed into condition and warrior dont have a single invulnerability skill/utility.
I almost never lose to a warrior with my mesmer/thief (sometimes i lose ofc, but they play way better than me) so i find hard to believe that top players have that big problems with warriors when they have access to blind spam and remove / corrupt boons. They should by now be able to counter their stuns (with this the uptime the warrior have to regen health between CC) the same way they can counter stealth. And if some player dont see a warrior with berserker stance up its the players fault. That skill only last 8/10 seconds max with 50 seconds downtime. Its the same thing that using your high damage skills to someone with invulnerability (true invul)

And yes i agree with you that mesmer need a litle more condition removal (and i think they will get it in 10th december, but still my berserker mesmer is way more viable than my berserker warrior.

It’s ironic that you say that things like protection (which usually is extremely limited in length) and vigor (to my knowledge, there are no builds that can get perma-vigor. I play S/D thief and I know that they don’t) are great, but stability isn’t because it can be stolen or turned into a condition.

How are people still complaining about stealth? I laugh at it nowadays- it’s ridiculously easy to counter.

Phantasms and clones don’t do that much damage, unless you allow them to…

And anyhow, none of this has anything to do with the fact that your prof gets both heavy armor and an insanely powerful passive heal.

Well i trully hope that you were tired when you wrote this because there are builds with perma vigor in some classes.
I´m not compalining about stealth, because i know how to fight a thief, (notice that i´m not saying i can counter stealth, i just know how to fight thiefs and i dont win all the time).
And i was saying that right now people should know how to fight warriors, the same way that i learned to fight thiefs.
There are some issues with thief right now (blind spam/evades/damage while in stealth) but you can work around them. Its the same on warriors.

You should read this post.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Too-many-new-warriors-or-what

Yes, I just remembered; engineers have perma-vigor, in part due to the fact that thieves can’t steal two boons any more with LS, something that your class was pushing hard for. Either way, that’s more of a discussion of whether or not engineer is OP for that, if anything.

What is there to counter about warriors? We definitely can’t put poison on you forever; most classes can’t, anyhow, and those that do have to hope that it’ll be difficult for you to condi cleanse it off. The only thing is the animations, but as I’ve been saying, that doesn’t help when there are tons of high-damage attacks with telegraphed animations. I can use eviscerate or earthshaker every 5 seconds, and eventually you’re going to miss it, our run out of stunbreakers, or whatever, and then you’re simply going to die. Other than that, warriors are arguably the simplest class in the game.

And I should mention… S/D’s style of play has been countered, multiple times, as I’ve written in some of my posts before (I’m not going to go out and find a long post I made just about the subject right now, but I will eventually). Blind spam only works if you stay in a Black Powder field, and it’s impossible to do damage while in stealth without getting Revealed, which is the way it’s always been.

Harper.4173:

Remember when Heightened focus and Berserker’s Might were moved to gradmaster traits?

Of course you don’t.

Healing signet is fine – it allows for passive sustain that makes warriors viable. If it wasn’t the case warriors would be the joke of any combat situation – as was the case before it was buffed.

Almost all other classes have some gimmick mechanic that ensures their survivability. Warriors have none – except this one skill. And since it is a skill rather than a game mechanic people are spamming " nerf x skill " – because they can’t understand that warrior has to have a high amount of passive sustain with little investment in order to remain viable.

If you want to take HS out – sure – but why not take out thief stealth or mesmer clones while you’re at it.
Because those are class mechanics and ours is a skill – but in reality both do the same thing – make their respective classes viable.

You want to fight HS – use poison ; use bursts.
I’ve beaten every class in WvW as a warrior and i’ve also lost to every class. It’s a matter of player skill. You posting that " you lost to a warrior " and " you’re getting tired of it " is no valid reason for any change.

If that were the case I would post that " mesmers are so distracting and stuff nerf them more" and what ? Anet would nerf mesmers? Why?

I can’t even respond to that…you think that healing signet is comparable to stealth and mesmer clones? You can’t be serious. Please come up with a valid reason warrior signet should remain, then come back. The fact is, 400 health per second on a class that already has an extremely high base health and toughness is just overkill.

A classes success should not be dependent on the use of a single skill.

I trade 6k of my warriors hp and 300 armor for clones,stealth,perma vigor and perma regen,blast finisher plus watefield,perma blind .Any of those

People that think hp and armor count ANYTHING if you are forced to facetank without any tricks make me lol.

Rascalking.9845:

A classes success should not be dependent on the use of a single skill.

Agree .But the problem is warrior class is completely broken without it .It lacks sustain and for that reason it was freekill class for over one year.They need to give warrior more heals,more boons,more dodges ,more leaps,more blocks,more ranged ,kiting viability and so on,apart from fixing basicly half the weapon skills and traits that are unusable.
Broken as is warrior needs hs to stay viable.Just learn to play and you will kill warriors a lot easier than any other class.Not terrible players do it and nerf is not even here yet.

mini.6018:

Rascalking.9845:

A classes success should not be dependent on the use of a single skill.

Agree .But the problem is warrior class is completely broken without it

We’re not saying that HS should be removed, just that it should be lowered. If there is no middle ground between being OP and being broken, then the issue should be on how to improve the warrior overall.

I mained a Warrior, and I can admit they aren’t on par with some of the other classes.

I wouldn’t go as far as saying they were overpowered, I feel that the other classes should be brought to the same level. I think the main cause of problems in Gw2 is the difference in health pools. There should be a minimal gap, if none at all in my opinion.
I can get the same stats on my Mesmer/Ele, but Ele has far less health and I feel they are both completely viable in terms of what I want them to do with said stats. Why there is such a difference in health I do not know.

That being said, I’ve shelved my Warrior at the moment as I’m getting no enjoyment from it. I think that’s down to it being really easy, and the whole melee chop chop chop gets boring after a bit.

Nerfing isn’t the way forward, but it’s probably going to happen as it’s the easier option.

Healing Signet needs its passive healing scaled down and the active improved significantly, which would make it work well with CD reduction via Traits. The complaints don’t come from its synergy with Adrenal Health and Shout / Banner heals, which is decent build efficiency.

Instead, the frustration stems from the fact that Healing Signet requires literally zero maintenance or attentiveness, with other Warrior healing abilities being sub-par in comparison. In its current state you would be better off unbinding the key shortcut entirely, making it the only Heal skill in the game that has no situational active use yet still outperforms other alternatives in overall HPS.

TL;DR: Make the button worth pushing.

I have no clue what most of you are talking about wrt the signet being too strong. Maybe you are talking about sPvP or maybe PvE. In WvW it pretty much works as intended which is good passive healing.

Why only good? B/c there are at least two classes that can burn through it very easily (Mesmer and Engineer) with Necros also having a relatively easy time of it as well if you don’t stun the crap out of them. It also doesn’t stand up to burst particularly well. If my warrior wasn’t specced for mobility he would go down to burst rather frequently.

I would feel really bad for players of classes that say they can’t bring down a Warrior except it’s the same for Warrior players. Mesmer and Engineers are absolutely beastly to try to bring down with Warrior (at least the builds I have tried). Every class has at least a couple of counter classes for it or at least classes with builds that are good to counter certain particular builds….and in my book that is just fine. If a thief can’t down a warrior without exceptional effort, too bad. They get to crush a bunch of other classes pretty easily.

And just to head off the “of course you are going to defend a warrior as you probably main one”….well I do. But I also have 4 other exotic geared 80s I play including the laughingstock Ranger (which can beat most warriors I run into btw) and a thief so I have some pretty good points of comparison.

Rascalking.9845:

Harper.4173:

Remember when Heightened focus and Berserker’s Might were moved to gradmaster traits?

Of course you don’t.

Healing signet is fine – it allows for passive sustain that makes warriors viable. If it wasn’t the case warriors would be the joke of any combat situation – as was the case before it was buffed.

Almost all other classes have some gimmick mechanic that ensures their survivability. Warriors have none – except this one skill. And since it is a skill rather than a game mechanic people are spamming " nerf x skill " – because they can’t understand that warrior has to have a high amount of passive sustain with little investment in order to remain viable.

If you want to take HS out – sure – but why not take out thief stealth or mesmer clones while you’re at it.
Because those are class mechanics and ours is a skill – but in reality both do the same thing – make their respective classes viable.

You want to fight HS – use poison ; use bursts.
I’ve beaten every class in WvW as a warrior and i’ve also lost to every class. It’s a matter of player skill. You posting that " you lost to a warrior " and " you’re getting tired of it " is no valid reason for any change.

If that were the case I would post that " mesmers are so distracting and stuff nerf them more" and what ? Anet would nerf mesmers? Why?

I can’t even respond to that…you think that healing signet is comparable to stealth and mesmer clones? You can’t be serious. Please come up with a valid reason warrior signet should remain, then come back. The fact is, 400 health per second on a class that already has an extremely high base health and toughness is just overkill.

A classes success should not be dependent on the use of a single skill.

You can’t respond to it because you have no valid arguments.

Warrior signet should remain because :
1) Warrior’s inherent mechanics are : High passive regen, high armor and high health pool. Just like stealth and clones and whatnot.

2)Before healing signet was buffed warriors were a joke in both WvW and sPVP. With the upcoming hammer nerf to the ONLY popular warrior build in sPVP it would completely kill off the class since it would make it WEAKER than before signet was buffed.
Remember – at that time warriors still had hammer the way it is today . Which will be nerfed soon.

Did you even play GW2 back then ? Do you even know what it was like to encounter a warrior back in those days? I’ll tell you – free kill. All warriors were in ANY form of pvp back then ( be it sPVP or WvW ) was a free kill.

As it is now HS has counters – BURST damage; POISON. Nobody uses these? That’s not my problem.

If you can’t understand or face the facts that’s your problem – but stop trying to say that what you’re proposing is actually valid – because it isn’t – and the fact that HS is where it is now proves it. ( if it was fine it wouldn’t have been buffed).

Arganthium.5638:

mini.6018:

Rascalking.9845:

A classes success should not be dependent on the use of a single skill.

Agree .But the problem is warrior class is completely broken without it

We’re not saying that HS should be removed, just that it should be lowered. If there is no middle ground between being OP and being broken, then the issue should be on how to improve the warrior overall.

You can’t. Because it’s a class that has no gimmick mechanic like clones and stealth.
Because it’s a class that is very beginner friendly and thus easy to play. Ergo played a lot – ergo it will kill bads a lot. Those bads will spam the forums and you’ll get nerfs such as the longbow and hammer nerfs.

Warriors will always be subject to their negative popularity. Sadly you can’t fix them – when they come even close to competitive people will spam the forums again with " NERF OMG".
Look at this thread – a nerf has already been announced and it hasn’t even arrived and people are STILL crying for more nerfs. Because they can’t up their game they just want to get a free win over warriors by requesting nerfs.

Kibbles.9813:

Healing Signet needs its passive healing scaled down and the active improved significantly, which would make it work well with CD reduction via Traits. The complaints don’t come from its synergy with Adrenal Health and Shout / Banner heals, which is decent build efficiency.

Instead, the frustration stems from the fact that Healing Signet requires literally zero maintenance or attentiveness, with other Warrior healing abilities being sub-par in comparison. In its current state you would be better off unbinding the key shortcut entirely, making it the only Heal skill in the game that has no situational active use yet still outperforms other alternatives in overall HPS.

TL;DR: Make the button worth pushing.

You’re missing the point of passive regen aren’t you?

It has situational use – you use it when you die if you don’t. It outperforms all other heals IF you’re not being burst or poisoned.

My problem with Healing Signet is several things…

1. I’m fighting a mob in PvE. Mom comes home and needs help pulling dinner out of the car. I stop what I’m doing, go do that, and come back, 5 minutes later, that same mob still hitting me, it’s level the same as mine (level 33 warrior). I’m only at half health. ONLY AT HALF HEALTH. No other class can pull that kitten off, that’s a PvE example of how OP it is.

2. Fighting a warrior in WvW on my trap Ranger. He just stands there doing the laughing emote while I’m throwing everything I have at him, including conditions. I’ve only thrown him down to 80%, and he is regening faster than I can damage him. He isn’t a bunker build (he told me this after I partied with him and asked), yet can pull this off just due to the signet. That’s too OP.

Thief kill warrior?
DP> blind spam> ?>winning.
berserker stance?> stealth> dodge the cc(easy)>shadowstep>?>profit
SD>dodge, dodge, CCed? sword 2>?>profit
Longbow> steal>whirling axe>?>profit
Whirling axe in smoke field is useful too
AA>apply poison>steal>poison>?>profit.
that’s how i fight warriors on my thief, clearly way easier then fighting some condition aoe spamming class…

Harper.4173:

Arganthium.5638:

mini.6018:

Rascalking.9845:

A classes success should not be dependent on the use of a single skill.

Agree .But the problem is warrior class is completely broken without it

We’re not saying that HS should be removed, just that it should be lowered. If there is no middle ground between being OP and being broken, then the issue should be on how to improve the warrior overall.

You can’t. Because it’s a class that has no gimmick mechanic like clones and stealth.
Because it’s a class that is very beginner friendly and thus easy to play. Ergo played a lot – ergo it will kill bads a lot. Those bads will spam the forums and you’ll get nerfs such as the longbow and hammer nerfs.

Warriors will always be subject to their negative popularity. Sadly you can’t fix them – when they come even close to competitive people will spam the forums again with " NERF OMG".
Look at this thread – a nerf has already been announced and it hasn’t even arrived and people are STILL crying for more nerfs. Because they can’t up their game they just want to get a free win over warriors by requesting nerfs.

I can tell you that I, like many others, were fully in support of buffing the warrior when it was unplayable in sPvP. We backed top players like Qt Hman who played warrior. What we didn’t expect was for the warrior to become an unkillable monster with both heavy armor and ~400 health per second healing. So don’t QQ about something that is completely false; many players actually want to see some degree of balance, and to act like we just wanted to put warriors purposefully on a lower tier is absolutely wrong.

And how do you up your game against what even you described as a beginner profession? The only logical method with this amount of stealing is to keep up almost permanent poison uptime, but most professions can’t access that (or can’t even access poison), and the ones that can can usually be countered pretty easily anyways. But tell me- how do you expect us to “up our game” against heavy armor and 400 HPS? More than likely, the only method you’re going to present is that we should “watch out” for telegraphed animations, but the truth of the matter is that that is much more easily said than done, and when there are so many telegraphed animations, it eventually becomes practically impossible to avoid all of them.

Just because you have difficulty killing one Arganthium, that doesn’t make the class an unkillable monster. The game shouldn’t be balanced around average or worse players. Every class in the game has the damage output capable of neutering a warriors passive healing. I’ve seen a mesmer and thief melt my HP down to almost nothing in the blink of an eye, and the only thing that kept me alive was endure pain. Of course, because I have healing signet on my heal bar and no other heal skill, I have no way to reliably heal all of the lost HP. And heavy armor is not nearly as important as having protection, or clones, or stealth. That’s a far better damage mitigater then heavy armor will ever be. Avoiding the damage is hundreds of times better then face tanking it. In-fact, the only way a healing signet warrior will be able to beat a skilled player is by mitigating a lot of their damage by dodging the burst skills.

Warriors are still not the most dominant class in Spvp and that speaks words about the class as a whole. Is it UP? No, but it is easily countered by any profession with good knowledge of both their class and the warrior class. The warrior class is the easiest class to counter, because all it is is avoiding a multitude of well telegraphed attacks. It’s the easiest class to learn, but it’s far from the best class overall. It only appears that way to average or below players, because they can’t pass the skill gap required to deal with warriors effortlessly.

On a side note, I enter the Obsidian Sanctum arena area quite often, and I see warriors losing more often then not 1v1. Mesmers are a warriors bane, and any other ranged class that’s good at kiting easily deals with them as well. So frankly, what I see with my own two eyes, and the stuff you’re spouting about warriros being unkillable monsters, does not compute.

Arganthium.5638:

Harper.4173:

Arganthium.5638:

mini.6018:

Rascalking.9845:

A classes success should not be dependent on the use of a single skill.

Agree .But the problem is warrior class is completely broken without it

We’re not saying that HS should be removed, just that it should be lowered. If there is no middle ground between being OP and being broken, then the issue should be on how to improve the warrior overall.

You can’t. Because it’s a class that has no gimmick mechanic like clones and stealth.
Because it’s a class that is very beginner friendly and thus easy to play. Ergo played a lot – ergo it will kill bads a lot. Those bads will spam the forums and you’ll get nerfs such as the longbow and hammer nerfs.

Warriors will always be subject to their negative popularity. Sadly you can’t fix them – when they come even close to competitive people will spam the forums again with " NERF OMG".
Look at this thread – a nerf has already been announced and it hasn’t even arrived and people are STILL crying for more nerfs. Because they can’t up their game they just want to get a free win over warriors by requesting nerfs.

I can tell you that I, like many others, were fully in support of buffing the warrior when it was unplayable in sPvP. We backed top players like Qt Hman who played warrior. What we didn’t expect was for the warrior to become an unkillable monster with both heavy armor and ~400 health per second healing. So don’t QQ about something that is completely false; many players actually want to see some degree of balance, and to act like we just wanted to put warriors purposefully on a lower tier is absolutely wrong.

And how do you up your game against what even you described as a beginner profession? The only logical method with this amount of stealing is to keep up almost permanent poison uptime, but most professions can’t access that (or can’t even access poison), and the ones that can can usually be countered pretty easily anyways. But tell me- how do you expect us to “up our game” against heavy armor and 400 HPS? More than likely, the only method you’re going to present is that we should “watch out” for telegraphed animations, but the truth of the matter is that that is much more easily said than done, and when there are so many telegraphed animations, it eventually becomes practically impossible to avoid all of them.

Uhum uhum am uh ok

Altrought the topic starts kind of sounded like a QQ ill make a constructive answer

Altrought warrior self healing is somewhat off the chart its prety much 100% based on healing over time. Dot the warrior with poison and you just made him unable to heal at all. Warrior condition removal also is awfull therefore making anyone able to use condition prety much their direct counter. Altrought i do apreciate the number of hit point the healing signet grant from regeneration poisons makes it way to easy to counter and in pvp if i see any sign of a necro presence my first move is to switch it quickly to something else. For these reason healing signet doesnt need a nerf. The issue isnt actualy healing signet but the ability of the warrior to pull both great regenerative prowess and damage at the same time. Maybe if they forced HS into an actual tactic traits wich improve the healing from healing signet (like for the guardian healing virtue)

Kagamiku.9731:

Just because you have difficulty killing one Arganthium, that doesn’t make the class an unkillable monster.

It’s called a hyperbole, but it does have some truth in it.

The game shouldn’t be balanced around average or worse players. Every class in the game has the damage output capable of neutering a warriors passive healing.

Do you know how you kill a bunker guard? By taking it down with tons of DPS. That requires a zerker amulet. The tradeoff is that you do a lot more damage to something that you would otherwise do virtually no damage to, and in return you take more damage (although not so much since a bunker guard, by definition, doesn’t do much damage anyways). Warriors have gotten fairly close to bunker guards (of course, not the same, but both have high healing and high defense), but they don’t have nearly the amount of a damage reduction granted by being an actual bunker.

I’ve seen a mesmer and thief melt my HP down to almost nothing in the blink of an eye, and the only thing that kept me alive was endure pain. Of course, because I have healing signet on my heal bar and no other skill, I have no way to reliably heal all of the lost HP.

Maybe if you had hit them, or not ran away (as most players seem to think is the best option, for whatever idiotic reason), you would’ve noticed that using, say, Whirling Blades once would have killed them. It’s not like you can’t deal damage to them.

And heavy armor is not nearly as important as having protection

It’s an automatic +7% damage reduction, on top of a much higher base health level that warriors get anyways. Meanwhile, protection is a very short-lasting boon that can easily be replaced by using condis like Weakness (25% reduction of damage in the long run w/ the slower endurance regen).

, or clones,

Target the mesmer? Honestly, people; there’s a reason why I have Call Target hotkeyed to my F button and Take Target hotkeyed to G. Nobody in the mesmer community believes that clones are any more than very slightly useful for defense against unweary opponents, and many others outside of that community (myself included) believe the same thing.

or stealth.

You can’t damage anybody in stealth (you can w/ heavy armor, clones, or protection), and it’s not like you can’t get hit (especially by AoE). Stealth also often lasts very short periods of time, and is getting nerfed again this patch. Congrats.

That’s a far better damage mitigater then heavy armor will ever be. Avoiding the damage is hundreds of times better then face tanking it. In-fact, the only way a healing signet warrior will be able to beat a skilled player is by mitigating a lot of their damage by dodging the burst skills.

Again- you have an automatic 7% damage reduction as well as about 5000 more health than many other professions just by playing a warrior. And let’s not even talk about warriors having to avoid their opponents from bursting them when warriors have burst skills with the highest coefficients or CC durations in the game.

Warriors are still not the most dominant class in Spvp and that speaks words about the class as a whole.

Then what prof is? Either way, that doesn’t mean that warr isn’t OP. Not many people play Teldo’s build, but it’s obviously very good.

Is it UP? No, but it is easily countered by any profession with good knowledge of both their class and the warrior class.

My theorycrafting studies of the game have extended my knowledge about the professions far better than pathetikittentle opinion arguments, like those used by the vast majority of warriors defending this signet. I can also tell you that, from my knowledge granted by those studies, the warrior is far, far better off than any other profession is.

The warrior class is the easiest class to counter, because all it is is avoiding a multitude of well telegraphed attacks.

The key word being multitude; it’s easy enough avoiding one high-damage, telegraphed attack, but avoiding one every few seconds is an entirely different matter.

It’s the easiest class to learn, but it’s far from the best class overall. It only appears that way to average or below players, because they can’t pass the skill gap required to deal with warriors effortlessly.

Funny you say that, because I’m pretty sure that the vast, vast majority of the top-league sPvP community would disagree with you on that point.

I can only give you examples.My warrior has 2400 armor.I can kill 99% of hammer warriors at 100% health.All i do is block,dodge.blind ALL their CCS. And ofcourse they would need a lot more than healing signet and high armor to outheal my damage.Sometimes if in a group fight one of them might get me if on all cds and no endurance.but thatì’s pretty much it.

The problem isn’t being able to deal 400 DPS; I could deal 500 DPS and it would only count as 100 DPS, which, with your health, might take me at least 195 seconds (assuming last hit takes place before healing) to kill you, to use an extreme example. On the other hand, if my thief only has 15000 health (base health for warrior is 5000 above thief’s), and I can only heal for 300 HPS while you deal 400 DPS, you’ll still kill me. If you hit for 500 DPS (which is more realistic, at least, according to you), then you’ll just kill me even faster.

Also, your suggestion would mean that everybody would have to run high-damage builds, and that nobody could run support or bunker. And either way, even if everybody ran high DPS, that in no way guarantees that you’ll kill a warrior; it’s not as if the heal is completely negated, as you seem to think.

EDIT: also, physical examples are biased by the stand point of the observer, particularly when using a sample size of only one. That’s the whole basis behind using theorycrafting.