Guild Wars 2

What? First of all, I never wanted to play bunker, I just brought it up as an example of a build that would die if you got things your way. Second, I say that warriors are OP because not only is it extremely difficult to kill them, but they deal lots of damage, unlike bunkers.

Damage and “hard to kill” were comming from UF and soldier gear.That gets nerfed now with extra 20%.Warrior bow/hammer build will suffer a 40§% damage nerf overall.

And since many players can kill hambows anyways i don’t see an issue here .Remember when ele could do 1v10 in WvW? War can’t even 1v1.

Soldier’s gear isn’t getting nerfed. Furthermore, I find it extremely difficult to see how moving getting 50% extra crit chance to foes that were already CC’d to Master tier is some kind of super undeserving nerf. And the bow and hammer build is not getting a 40% nerf, in case you never understood mathematics. It’s getting a ~20% nerf to two hammer skills (that deal fair amounts of CC already), and the amount of additional burning (the most powerful pure condi in the game) that the LB is getting on the one skill that was nerfed for it is more than enough to cover for the damage lost. Even if both LB and Hammer were getting 20% damage nerfs to all skills, it would still count as a 20% damage decrease to the build (assuming you use both weapons the same amount)- the average of 20% and 20% is 20%, for future reference.

And hey, I wasn’t the one that brought up Hambow, you were. I’m just talking about the signet and you keep trying to change the subject. Warr can certainly 1v1 though.

Do you know how you kill a bunker guard? By taking it down with tons of DPS. That requires a zerker amulet. The tradeoff is that you do a lot more damage to something that you would otherwise do virtually no damage to, and in return you take more damage (although not so much since a bunker guard, by definition, doesn’t do much damage anyways). Warriors have gotten fairly close to bunker guards (of course, not the same, but both have high healing and high defense), but they don’t have nearly the amount of a damage reduction granted by being an actual bunker.

Unless a warrior is going full Soliders or at least Knights, you don’t even need to be zerker in order to bring them down. Condition builds can bring a warrior down just as well as a burst builds. The former can be built pretty tanky and still effective. It’s so easy to kite a warrior with conditions. Another reason why mesmers dominate them in a 1v1 scenario. Necro’s are capable of doing the same given the player is skilled. As for your second point, you said it yourself “Warriors don’t have nearly as much damage reduction granted by being a bunker” Guardians, Engis, even Necros can bunker down way better then a warrior, and still have the dmg output to kill you. If a warrior tries to be too tanky, he’s only hurting himself. And even then, once hsi passive regen fails him, he’s a sitting duck.

Maybe if you had hit them, or not ran away (as most players seem to think is the best option, for whatever idiotic reason), you would’ve noticed that using, say, Whirling Blades once would have killed them. It’s not like you can’t deal damage to them.

A thief backstabs you with Basilisk Venom traited and by the time you can react you’re already knocking on deaths door. Even if you try and stay and fight you’re fighting a losing battle. Whirling blade is a kittenty move and does kitten for damage, and even then he can just back up and wait for it to end. Or just finish you off with ranged.

It’s an automatic +7% damage reduction, on top of a much higher base health level that warriors get anyways. Meanwhile, protection is a very short-lasting boon that can easily be replaced by using condis like Weakness (25% reduction of damage in the long run w/ the slower endurance regen).

I’ll take having one extra clone with me at all times to confuse the opponent over 7%health reduction any day of the week. Mesmers can have three up at all times. Extra
A bunker Engi can have almost perma-Protection uptime, just saying. And every other class at least has access to Protection. I’d rather have 33%dmg reduction w/e I desperatly needed it, then a 7%dmg reduction at all times.

Target the mesmer? Honestly, people; there’s a reason why I have Call Target hotkeyed to my F button and Take Target hotkeyed to G. Nobody in the mesmer community believes that clones are any more than very slightly useful for defense against unweary opponents, and many others outside of that community (myself included) believe the same thing.

Mesmers have 435323241 get out of jail free cards. It’s easier said then done. If they’re not making clones with their backflips, they’re stunbreaking your abilities only to make another clone. Oh and they also have access to invis, making them even more ridiculous to deal with in a 1v1 situation.

You can’t damage anybody in stealth (you can w/ heavy armor, clones, or protection), and it’s not like you can’t get hit (especially by AoE). Stealth also often lasts very short periods of time, and is getting nerfed again this patch. Congrats.

No, but when you have near perma-stealth you can use hit and run tactics until your opponent has either given up, or is a corpse beneath your feet. And lets not forget dat blind spam.

Again- you have an automatic 7% damage reduction as well as about 5000 more health than many other professions just by playing a warrior. And let’s not even talk about warriors having to avoid their opponents from bursting them when warriors have burst skills with the highest coefficients or CC durations in the game.

health isn’t as great as you make it out to be, Vitality is a poor stat for a warrior which is why going Knights is far better then Soldiers. If you are not able to passively regen the damage faster then you’re being dealt it, you’re going to die. Whether you have 15khp or 20k hp. It only delays the inevitable. Other classes like thieves can make much better use of it as it gives them some more room for error. And they also have the most easily telegraphed bursts of any class. If you’re getting hit with any of the high damage burst skills of a warrior on a consistent basis, you’re bad. Period. Especially Kill shot, Earthshaker, or Evicerate.

Another average heal, or nerfing HS to make it an average heal so that warr isn’t healing more than every other class in the game by a long shot.

Arganthium.5638:

Another average heal, or nerfing HS to make it an average heal so that warr isn’t healing more than every other class in the game by a long shot.

So 0 compensate, back to become a freekill..Yeah not going to happen.

Kagamiku.9731:

Unless a warrior is going full Soliders or at least Knights, you don’t even need to be zerker in order to bring them down. Condition builds can bring a warrior down just as well as a burst builds. The former can be built pretty tanky and still effective. It’s so easy to kite a warrior with conditions. Another reason why mesmers dominate them in a 1v1 scenario. Necro’s are capable of doing the same given the player is skilled. As for your second point, you said it yourself “Warriors don’t have nearly as much damage reduction granted by being a bunker” Guardians, Engis, even Necros can bunker down way better then a warrior, and still have the dmg output to kill you. If a warrior tries to be too tanky, he’s only hurting himself. And even then, once hsi passive regen fails him, he’s a sitting duck.

As I’ve explained before, no, you don’t need to be running zerker, but the warrior still has a high probability of healing for more than you can damage, or healing for so much that he or she will kill you first anyways. Also, bunker guards and engis do virtually no damage, and necros do only very slightly more.

A thief backstabs you with Basilisk Venom traited and by the time you can react you’re already knocking on deaths door. Even if you try and stay and fight you’re fighting a losing battle. Whirling blade is a kittenty move and does kitten for damage, and even then he can just back up and wait for it to end. Or just finish you off with ranged.

First, virtually nobody traits Basilisk Venom unless he or she is using a very odd build or is running a venom build, which you shouldn’t be bursted by anyways. Even so, it’s our only stun and happens to be fairly short relative to many warrior stuns, and the animation/cast for BV happens to be extremely noticeable. After the animation occurs, you already have far more time to react than if you were reacting to, say Earthshaker or Skull Crack. Either way, Endure Pain instantly negates Basi Venom and will probably give you enough time to kill the thief.

Whirling Blades is an AoE skill on a short (10 seconds) CD that also provides some really great mobility, and it hits for about a third of the damage that Backstab does. It’s also extremely difficult to evade. No clue what your big QQ is about the subject.

Rifle beats thief’s Shortbow range any day of the week, especially with Volley. You can always just use mobility skills to reach the thief quickly, anyways.

I’ll take having one extra clone with me at all times to confuse the opponent over 7%health reduction any day of the week. Mesmers can have three up at all times. Extra
A bunker Engi can have almost perma-Protection uptime, just saying. And every other class at least has access to Protection. I’d rather have 33%dmg reduction w/e I desperatly needed it, then a 7%dmg reduction at all times.

Are you kidding? Nobody in the mesmer community thinks that clones are a legitimate distraction, which I learned the hard way. For example, the linked quote from Pyroatheist, who happens to be one of the mesmer community’s leading players, suggests everything to the contrary of what you are saying. While I somewhat agree with some of the points I made in the original post there, I would almost wholeheartedly agree with Pyro today after having played a role in the sPvP eSports community for many months.

Furthermore, Engis don’t have that much protection; in fact, from what I saw, it only has four sources of protection (excluding combo finishers, etc): Elixir H, Elixir H’s toolbelt skill, and two traits- one that grants a little protection when an enemy crits them (with a 20 second CD), and one that- and it’s ironic that you criticize them about this- gives them protection when they are CC’d.

Thief doesn’t have access to protection, mesmer has extremely limited and somewhat questionable ways to access protection, engi doesn’t have nearly as much prot as you stated, necro can only access prot through a single utility (w/ 60s CD) and a very rarely used trait, the only realistic way for rangers to have prot is with Stone Spirit. Guard actually has some fairly limited prot (two shouts and a little bit more if they use hammer or shield), and eles have a decent amount of prot but in exchange for light armor and all of the issues they currently suffer. Stop playing the victim.

Mesmers have 435323241 get out of jail free cards. It’s easier said then done. If they’re not making clones with their backflips, they’re stunbreaking your abilities only to make another clone. Oh and they also have access to invis, making them even more ridiculous to deal with in a 1v1 situation.

I’ve already stated how you can counter clones, and if you can’t get used to being stunbroken, then you really just need to learn that that’s how you counter your CC’s. And mesmer’s invisibility is extremely, extremely limited (two utilities, one of which is only rarely used, one weapon skill on a hardly used weapon, and one elite), and that doesn’t account for the fact that the stealths are fairly short anyways.

No, but when you have near perma-stealth you can use hit and run tactics until your opponent has either given up, or is a corpse beneath your feet. And lets not forget dat blind spam.

All I really need to say is that “perma stealth” is getting nerfed again this patch, and “blind spam” only happens when you stand inside a Black Powder field…

health isn’t as great as you make it out to be, Vitality is a poor stat for a warrior which is why going Knights is far better then Soldiers. If you are not able to passively regen the damage faster then you’re being dealt it, you’re going to die. Whether you have 15khp or 20k hp. It only delays the inevitable. Other classes like thieves can make much better use of it as it gives them some more room for error. And they also have the most easily telegraphed bursts of any class. If you’re getting hit with any of the high damage burst skills of a warrior on a consistent basis, you’re bad. Period. Especially Kill shot, Earthshaker, or Evicerate.

Actually, at base levels, my calculations show that 1 point of vitality is still worth 1.158 points of toughness in terms of direct damage reduction. Furthermore, I found that Soldier’s armor actually deals 102.7% of the damage dealt by Knight’s, and it reduces direct damage by 107.0% of the amount that Knight’s armor reduces damage. Learn to do math.

And, again, telegraphed attacks mean nothing when there are so many of them…

Arganthium.5638:

All I really need to say is that “perma stealth” is getting nerfed again this patch, and “blind spam” only happens when you stand inside a Black Powder field…

and warriors have soooooo much stamina that they can dodge all of them or run away crippled!

GW2 is ARPG inspired. Compared to Regen in Diablo, Path of Exile other notable ARPGs. Warriors regen is low in comparison. Same goes with the ability to dodge, that is inspried by ARPG except it is no where close to action like they tried to say. Dodging twice maybe ARPG inspired but its nothing like fluid action okay.

Lear how to play the game and deal with normal mechanics. These mechaninccs you guys kitten about have been around for 100s of thousands of years in the gaming industry. Learn to play and don’t whine.

Vitality counters condition and physical.Vit plus toughness > toughness. Also has more power than knight = more damage.

Perma fury 20% Unsuspecting Foe 50% 5% from investing into UF

75% crit chance on soldier gear with ZERO precision stat on any of your armor or jewels.You seem to have been missing for awhile.Welcome back.

Vitality doesn’t counter conditions. Berserkers stance or cleaning Ire counters conditions. If you’re relying on a little bit of evtra HP to save you from conditions, you’re dead. Sure, hp+toughness is better then just toughness, but it’s very minimal. Might be good in a zerg, that’s about it. It doesn’t do a kitten thing for a warriors sustain.

Or better yet, Knights armor and zerker trinkets is what you should be running.

Can we really use a trait that only activates when the opponent as stunned as a measure for your toons crit chance? It’s so easy to avoid. I wreck hammer warriors with my SS/LB build because of that. You tell people to l2p, well if they knew how to play, they certainly wouldn’t be perma-stunned by a hammer warrior. Not only that, but you’re only referring to one build. Not every warrior uses unsuspecting foes you know. Probably even less so once the Hambow warrior is nerfed into the ground. I used to use it in Spvp, until I realized it was totally outclassed by my current build.

Healing signet alone is fine. As a thief, I apply poison and use my sustained damage to get them low, and I don’t even use stealth. If they gain regeneration, boon strip it. Since you’re using dagger offhand rather than pistol use blind on stealth. Blinds mess warriors up big time, especially hammer ones. Banner regen warriors are simply a matter of poison/ a few bleeds followed by sustained bursts. You use sword, so those really shouldn’t be an issue. I only have 2850 attack on my thief with 500 healing power, 2400 armor, and 17k health, so being bursty isn’t really the answer to killing warriors using healing signet.

Vitality arguments…Would be better if Vitality scaled with condition damage. It doesn’t. Vitality also does not scale with regen. You can’t say that one is a counter for another when there is no link between one or the other.

What vitality is a counter to is high burst physical damage when combined with toughness.

You guys …:oh dear ,

Vitality is the only stat affected by condition damage you know ? You think that toughness will save ya agaisnt a necro ? Knight has lower dps too than soldier with uf.

mini.6018:

You guys …:oh dear ,

Vitality is the only stat affected by condition damage you know ? You think that toughness will save ya agaisnt a necro ? Knight has lower dps too than soldier with uf.

The community accepted way of dealing with conditions is using cleanses. That goes for every profession.

Your argument is that A(condition damage) effects C (Vitality) so having large amounts of C lessens the effect of A becasue C is the only couter to A. And C is the only stat effected by A.

You argument is illogical. Because you left out B(condition damage) and D(condition cleansing from your argument. And you did not prove that C is the only stat effected by condition damage. When clearly B effects the damage A does and D nullifys the effects of A.

Please review your statements.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Healing signet alone is fine. As a thief, I apply poison and use my sustained damage to get them low, and I don’t even use stealth. If they gain regeneration, boon strip it. Since you’re using dagger offhand rather than pistol use blind on stealth. Blinds mess warriors up big time, especially hammer ones. Banner regen warriors are simply a matter of poison/ a few bleeds followed by sustained bursts. You use sword, so those really shouldn’t be an issue. I only have 2850 attack on my thief with 500 healing power, 2400 armor, and 17k health, so being bursty isn’t really the answer to killing warriors using healing signet.

Yeah, I’ll go on my mes now and apply perma poison.

Warlord.9074:

The community accepted way of dealing with conditions is using cleanses. That goes for every profession.

Your argument is that A(condition damage) effects C (Vitality) so having large amounts of C lessens the effect of A becasue C is the only couter to A. And C is the only stat effected by A.

You argument is illogical. Because you left out B(condition damage) and D(condition cleansing from your argument. And you did not prove that C is the only stat effected by condition damage. When clearly B effects the damage A does and D nullifys the effects of A.

Please review your statements.

So you’re telling me that A and B are the same thing? This is hardly even an argument. But let’s put it this way:

Player 1 is playing Player 2. Player 1 is a warrior, and Player 2 is a necro with infinite health (for the purpose of discussing how to reduce condi damage). Let’s say that the necro deals 100 DPS in conditions. What is the only stat that can be used to decrease condi damage? Toughness doesn’t (that’s just a fact; if you really don’t believe it, then look it up on the wiki), and all of your other stats are irrelevant to damage dealt to you anyways, excluding Vitality. So let’s say that you have 1000 health as your base. At the rate that the necro is damaging you, you will die in 10 seconds (provided you don’t heal). However, if you up your health by 100 points of vitality (1000 points of health), then it will take you twenty seconds to die. Because 20 > 10, vitality stalls death, and that’s the entire point of taking damage reduction in the first place: to slow down your rate of death.

Also, why does D, condition cleansing, need to be a part of his argument? The argument is that vitality reduces condition damage indirectly, as I showed above. So what if you condi cleanse for, say, what would otherwise be 3 seconds? You would still die in 13/23 seconds. You’re just trying to mix variables up everywhere and hoping that the net result will be that you think that your argument is “logical”. You know what ceteris paribus is? It’s the scientific assumption used in all experiments that you will be holding all variables constant apart from the independent and dependent variables. Holding everything constant, then, as shown above, an increase in vitality decreases rate of death and thereby indirectly decreases condition damage.

Silveirex.1893:

Arganthium.5638:

All I really need to say is that “perma stealth” is getting nerfed again this patch, and “blind spam” only happens when you stand inside a Black Powder field…

and warriors have soooooo much stamina that they can dodge all of them or run away crippled!

Omg you have to run out of a circle with radius of 180 that costs half/40% of a thief’s initiative and then you have to deal with the thief’s extremely limited ability to cripple foes? I pity you so much.

mini.6018:

You guys …:oh dear ,

Vitality is the only stat affected by condition damage you know ? You think that toughness will save ya agaisnt a necro ? Knight has lower dps too than soldier with uf.

Vitality has no bearing on condition damage. If you have 1 Vitality or 1 million Vitality, incoming conditions will perform exactly the same on you.

Just because you die faster with less life doesn’t mean conditions do more to you. You die faster with less life because you have less life…

only bad warriors complained about that term, thieves are one of the easier class for free kill tier warrior=full damage warrior=only build working warrior. engi ranger mesmer were the real pain in the a. even i used to flame other warriors for saying thieves are op during free kill tier war.

now i repeat “only bad warriors complained about that term”. and it’s happening again, just on other classes. if you get it.

Arganthium.5638:

Now, onto the subject: I started with the standard 150% critical damage that every profession has, and, from that base level, I got the results that I showed you. I will have you know, however, that it takes about another 206% critical damage (356% total) for 1 point of precision to approximately equal 1 point of power (well, it’s actually 1 point precision equal 0.998 points power, technically, but it’s extremely close). At base levels, however, 1 point of power equals 4.668 points of precision. It would thus make sense that it either requires a lot of power (decreasing power’s relative value), a lot of critical damage, or a lot of both together in order for the value of precision to equal the value of power.

Everyone knows that one precision point is worth less than 1 point in power. That’s not the point. You’re effectively gaining 10%crit chance at the cost of 115 power. It doesn’t take a long winded equation to figure out the significance of either.

As it so happens, the Knight’s gear equals approximately the same amount of damage as the Soldier’s gear when you have 20% additional critical damage on top of your 150%. That being said, even at that point, 1 point of power still equals 3.963 points of precision; it’s just that your precision becomes slightly more valuable. Of course, taking 20% additional critical damage requires you to sacrifice something in another area. Also, this comparison with the additional critical damage still does nothing for the amount of additional damage reduction you get.

And it so happens that if that is truly the case, then Knights still provides more damage output in almost all cases. The discipline line is a very good place to be in, and that’s 30%crit damage right there. Even if you don’t trait into it, you’re only hurting yourself without tossing some zerker trinkets into the mix. 50%crit damage is more realistic to what the usual warrior would run. Making Knights armor quite a bit more damage efficient. That doesn’t even take into account the traits that proc from a critical hit. Such as furious (critical hits grant bonus adrenalin) and rending strikes (chance to cause vulnerability on critical hit) or sharpened axes(extra adrenaline on critical hit with axes). Unless of course, you plan on neutering yourself by running full soldiers or Knights everything, which is really only purposeful in zergs. You’re also gaining 115 toughness at the cost of 2,000 or so hitpoints. I’ll take the 115 toughness to sustain my healing signet over the 2,000HP that will just be melted without sufficient toughness anyways. Once you lose that 2k HP there is no getting it back with healing signet. The extra toughness is with you throughout the whole fight. The only thing the extra vitality is good for is surviving a burst attack.

Vitality is the only stat that is affected by condition damage.Translation.There is no stat that reduces the condition damage you take.While you can equip toughness and spam protection and weakness to reduce by almost 80% the physical damge you take, the conditions will still do the same damage.

Arganthium.5638:

but the truth of the matter is that that is much more easily said than done,

Yes – that’s how you up your game. Make it just as easy to do it as it it to say it.

400 HP/s is great unless you’re bursted down. But nobody does that because the condition meta makes people think spamming bleeds will get them somewhere.
Almost all classes can deal more than 400hp/s + you can blind and kite the warrior as well.

High damage builds ARE the solution here – and when you made mention of your thief you forgot to mention that for the warrior to kill you he must first catch you.
You forgot you have poison ; forgot you have blind ; forgot you have stealth.
You just casually forgot to mention these as you were saying how the warrior will kill you because he deals more damage and does regen.

Yes – you don’t survive as much but then again the warrior will never turn invisible will he? IF you want to have the advantages of a warrior – play one. Else – accept the trade off – you get to be unseen but lack the ability to survive.

Also you mention theorycrafting – as something you do. Do you actually have any numbers or some research or are we going to resume ourselves to :

“I’ve done some theorycrafting and it turns out X class is OP. Trust me – i know numbers and spreadsheets and stuff”.

After reading through most of the thread i feel I shouldn’t even reply to Arganthium – all we have here is a case of a " theorycrafting" expert gone terribly wrong.

Oi, as someone who used healing sig since beta (call it bad, or lazy, or whatever you will, but I was still able to hold my own), I enjoyed the change. But so many people seem to complain now.

Healing Surge can out preform healing signet, and healing signet can out preform healing surge. So to say that healing signet is OP means that Healing Surge must be too (the only counter argument is that you can stun an active heal, to which I say, stability).

I don’t feel like typing out all the numbers again, but it’s pretty easy to do.

(As a warning going from memory) For a fight that lasts exactly N multiple of 30s (assuming N-1 healing surges), healing signet will equal healing surges potential with 50% poison up time.

For fights that last shorter or longer (say a 45 sec fight, where you can get off two healing surges, assuming the first is very early to counter a burst) it is substantially less poison uptime for healing surge to be the better option. And just to point out the obvious (because apparently other people stating it isn’t enough) if you burst down a warrior to 1/2 hp (roughly 9,000 damage) do you realize it takes over 20 sec of healing to regain that much hp. And if a warrior is spec’ed for total defense at most he can get 7-8 sec without being very close to death (3 from shield stance, 4 from endure pain (5 if traited), and another 4 from defy pain (5 if traited) [and this only kicks in at 25% hp]). And with endure/defy pain it’s very easy to counter with conditions.

And to counter of “healing sig always provides healing even if you are blocking/dodging/etc” that is of course what a passive heal does (or a set it and forget it heal). But to also to point out a small point, but something to remember, at the start of a fight when hp is still almost maxed, or if a war is able to scrape his hp back up, every second that healing signet isn’t healing for the full amount it is lost, and the overall effectiveness of the signet is brought down (compared to healing surge). That may be obvious and sound trivial, but it is one of the negatives of passive healing (yes, you can also over heal with healing surge, but the effect is more pronounced with healing signet).

Also the other day I was bored while on my ranger alt, and looked up the heal/sec on Troll Unguent and it’s roughly 350 heal/sec compared to Healing Signet’s rough 400 heal/sec, but it targets both the ranger and his pet. And an ele can get about ~250 hp/sec with Glyph of Elemental Harmony while in water (which I have no clue if it is the current “good” heal or not, but it can also be made a bit better with more boon duration), and with Elemental Attunement they can get up to (if not over) 50% protection (not to mention all of the regen they can get), so even though it’s about ~66% the healing of healing signet, they can either make up the difference with water healing skills or protection.

I don’t see how these 3 healing skills are that different in terms of heal/sec, especially considering the nature of the 3 classes (access to boons/evades/blocks/etc.).

how do you wanna kill a warrior? Full zerker + spam HS? It remembers me when I was a 5 signet warrior with GS…

wat

I don’t even play stealth, much less any D/X build.

Why do I even argue mathematics with you people, when you’re the only ones that don’t believe that vitality is good against condi damage, when 400 health per second is “nothing”… Ah well.

anyway people gunna have serious reason to stop anoying warriors after the 10th because mesmer get to actualy have an even stronger signet (800 hp with 3 illusion up seriously?) give them 4 days and thief will all be over the mesmer forum

Nobody has perma vigor, and even if they did, that means nothing – I can also not get hit by any of your attacks by simply not playing the game.

Engineer:
We wanted to maintain the engineer’s core roles while still increasing build diversity. We also wanted to take out some of the random effects for some of the class’s traits. The biggest change here is allowing Modified Ammunition to work with any skills so that an engineer, regardless of build, can look at putting 30 points into firearms. By increasing the swiftness duration on Speedy Kits, we hope to allow Swiftness to be maintained more reasonably without having to constantly be swapping between Kits. This change will also bring down the total up time for Vigor due to its interaction with Invigorating Speed. We don’t like classes having permanent Vigor, and this is one of the areas we needed to tone down the up time of the engineer’s Vigor.

^ Add to that mesmer+guardian with about perma vigor up, and ranger+mesmer with high uptime protection.

Inst it that guy that was saying lb getting a buff anyway?

Arganthium.5638:

Also, why does D, condition cleansing, need to be a part of his argument? The argument is that vitality reduces condition damage indirectly, as I showed above. So what if you condi cleanse for, say, what would otherwise be 3 seconds? You would still die in 13/23 seconds. You’re just trying to mix variables up everywhere and hoping that the net result will be that you think that your argument is “logical”. You know what ceteris paribus is? It’s the scientific assumption used in all experiments that you will be holding all variables constant apart from the independent and dependent variables. Holding everything constant, then, as shown above, an increase in vitality decreases rate of death and thereby indirectly decreases condition damage.

You are saying that I mixed up variables? I didn’t invent the variables. Those variables exist in game. Just becasue you prefer a more simplified aproach to dealing with conditions by utilizing VIT. Does not mean that the mechanics are as simple as just using VIT.

Your argument is Vitality reduces damage indirectly. My argument is Condition cleansing negates Condition damage directly. That Vitality does not reduce condition damage and that the only stat that effects condition damage is condition damage itself. Vitality is merely a buffer that is all.