Healing Signet Idea

Healing Signet Idea

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Posted by: bobomb.5209

bobomb.5209

Hello fellow Warriors. I’ve posted this idea on a few threads of mine when the topic of the Healing Signet comes up. I am of the belief that it has too much passive regeneration for having only one counter to it. I propose a simple suggestion that would make it a much better tactical skill, while remaining useful. Lower the passive regeneration to 250, or 270-300 and change the active to something similar to Rangers “Troll Ungent”. if you are not familiar with this skill. “Troll Ungent” gives large regeneration over a few seconds. Currently, with no healing power, “Troll Ungent” gives exactly 850 healing per second over 10 seconds which would equal 8500 total. Increase the Cool down to 35+ seconds and you have a skill that allows attrition, as well as an escape from death should you get low on health. The lower regeneration would make it more counterable for other classes and warriors. But would still support its function as an attrition skill. Please comment below and give your own ideas as to what Healing Signet could become versus what it currently is. A skill that you place in your 6th slot and NEVER use.

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Posted by: Scoobaniec.9561

Scoobaniec.9561

Healing signet is fine as it is now for passive. If u want to improve active i suggest to take a look at mesmer signet, and make our active reset signet cd’s.

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Posted by: bobomb.5209

bobomb.5209

Healing signet is fine as it is now for passive. If u want to improve active i suggest to take a look at mesmer signet, and make our active reset signet cd’s.

I thank you for your opinion but I ask why do you think it’s fine? It works, sure, but we don’t need something that you NEVER use. You put Healing Signet down and forget about it. Mesmers are not the topic of this thread so I ask you to refrain from mentioning them. I would like to see more dynamic gameplay and Healing Signet does not cut it.

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Posted by: Scoobaniec.9561

Scoobaniec.9561

Healing signet is fine as it is now for passive. If u want to improve active i suggest to take a look at mesmer signet, and make our active reset signet cd’s.

I thank you for your opinion but I ask why do you think it’s fine? It works, sure, but we don’t need something that you NEVER use. You put Healing Signet down and forget about it. Mesmers are not the topic of this thread so I ask you to refrain from mentioning them. I would like to see more dynamic gameplay and Healing Signet does not cut it.

Well for active we got adrenaline surge, mending, defiant stance, pick one if u dont like hs, does anyone force ya to pick it? Why u want to make something active that been a passive skill since launch? As for mesmer u also can say its not worth for them to active signet bc they have highter hp/s in passive than active mode.

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Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

I’ not sure anymore than 10,000 healing over 25 seconds (an average cool down of a heal) passively ticking is actually okay. The point of the passive is supposed to give you some wiggle room/protection before you use your signet, not replace it. It doesn’t need mega nerfed but 20-25% nerf (say 25) would still be 7,500 over 25 seconds which is about on par with Ether fest passively. And ether fest is considered a very high heal already. Then make the signet worth using, so we don’t have never-use signets. It being a passive heal doesn’t bother me, but the fact that using it quickly hurts you is a pretty big problem.

Even traited, a 3500 heal use with a 16 second cool down is overshadowed by the passive 6,400 in 16 seconds. Which is why ever using it even in dire situations is even bad.

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)

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Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

Oh and to those saying why not just use healing sure over it, well simply put with 0 healing power and best case scenario, if a warrior has full adren, it heals for 9,820 with a 30 sec cool down (or less with fewer adrenaline). In 30 seconds with no healing power a healing signet can heal for about 12,000 and can’t be interrupted and is constant so there’s no chances of waiting too long to heal, your already getting health, meaning each moment fighting is less risky. Its kind of a no brained why people use one over the other if they want to be efficient.

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)

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Posted by: Scoobaniec.9561

Scoobaniec.9561

^ At same time u comparing dark pact to pin down and asking for a nerf ignoring everything else, thx for advice but keep it for u.

As for surge vs hs, a hs won’t save ur butt while being bursted down compared to surge. If the fight last shorter than 30sec actually surge has highter hp/s than hs. For some reason i still see warriors using surge instead of hs and doing fine.

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Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

I compared warrior heals with warrior heals. I’ve played mmos for a long time, I know how balance works. Stop defending this. I’m not asking for it to be destroyed. I’m asking for it to have a HELPFUL passive, but ultimately, still be a heal button. The truth is, while it may be a bit weaker versus burst, warriors have plenty of blocks/stability and condi clear to avoid burst, thus allowing the healing signets’s sustain be more effective than burst healing. And while yes, you can see warriors do fine with Healing Surge, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know healing signet is still superior.

And don’t think because I call healing signet out that it’s the ONLY thing that I see as a problem. That’s just what this topic is about. For instance, as an MM I wish my minions didn’t do as much dps, but that I did more instead, but unfortunately, Power necro seems to be balanced with minions in mind so they’re honestly just the best bet for spvp power unless you’re running some glass LB build. The problem is that necromancers are just too easy to cc/focus (specifically glass power ones) to be worth using versus say, I don’t know… A warrior with stances? Maybe mesmers now, thieves before… So while yes, it’s also pretty stupid how much dps Minions can do, phantasms can do, how ridiculously over powered Prismatic Understanding is, how cluttersome ai can be (especially spirits) that’s not what this is about, so don’t try to call me out of you have no idea what my opinions are on other things.

Yes, pin down is too strong. And yes, healing signers passive is too strong. And yes, the active portion of healing signet needs a huge buff. These are facts. Unrelated to anyone else, for the warrior as a class by itself, they are too good.

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)

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Posted by: Scoobaniec.9561

Scoobaniec.9561

I dont know if power necro is made with minions in mind..My life blast does about 3k in spvp (always crit btw, thx to trait) and my aa from dagger hits hard too. Also where that plenty of blocks comes from? I know olny 2 – shield stance and riposte, both cannot be used under cc. Also hs will stay here for good, don’t try fix something that inst broken, hs has little highter hp/s cause its not a burst heal.

Why u wont complain about how useless signet of rage passive is? Ah right bc it sux, so its okay to keep it this way.

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Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

There are a lot of skills that suck across the game. OP skills are far more important to bring in line that underpowered because they had the biggest negative impact on actual play. Once things are toned down, other things can be brought up. Like look at corrosive poison cloud. It blows, but anything too strong (condi spam) is much more important to fix than an unused skill. And it was, condition spams took significant nerfs in the las patch.

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)

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Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

And just so you know, you’re incorrect. That isn’t why its so high. It’s because no one used it when it healed half as much over time, because both the passive and the “use” wasn’t enough healing. You’d be correct if the passive WAS the heal, but it isn’t. The heal is the on use, and instead of buffing the use to a good place like they should have done, the buffed the passive portion way too high so people would use it, and left the active being completely useless. If it healed for 200 Hps, but on use healed for 7k for instance, people would still use it. It’d slow down the rate that you lose health but still have an active worth using. Granted 7k would be too high for a 16’second cd, but you get the idea. They took an easy fix to make the heal attractive, now delusional people think its an interesting heal/design.

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)

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Posted by: Scoobaniec.9561

Scoobaniec.9561

And just so you know, you’re incorrect. That isn’t why its so high. It’s because no one used it when it healed half as much over time, because both the passive and the “use” wasn’t enough healing. You’d be correct if the passive WAS the heal, but it isn’t. The heal is the on use, and instead of buffing the use to a good place like they should have done, the buffed the passive portion way too high so people would use it, and left the active being completely useless. If it healed for 200 Hps, but on use healed for 7k for instance, people would still use it. It’d slow down the rate that you lose health but still have an active worth using. Granted 7k would be too high for a 16’second cd, but you get the idea. They took an easy fix to make the heal attractive, now delusional people think its an interesting heal/design.

Actually i been using it when it was healing for 200/s and been doing fine. In fact i started to using it day 2 right after launch when i unlocked. And i know ppl that also been using it back then. Thats what u guys asking for is to change a complete gameplay of hs. We can as well delete signet and add another burst heal bc who care right?

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Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

If you were fine with it at 200/sec why are you so opposed to it becoming 300/sec (my suggestion) with a better active? You know actives ARE meant to be used right?

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)

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Posted by: runeblade.7514

runeblade.7514

And just so you know, you’re incorrect. That isn’t why its so high. It’s because no one used it when it healed half as much over time, because both the passive and the “use” wasn’t enough healing. You’d be correct if the passive WAS the heal, but it isn’t. The heal is the on use, and instead of buffing the use to a good place like they should have done, the buffed the passive portion way too high so people would use it, and left the active being completely useless. If it healed for 200 Hps, but on use healed for 7k for instance, people would still use it. It’d slow down the rate that you lose health but still have an active worth using. Granted 7k would be too high for a 16’second cd, but you get the idea. They took an easy fix to make the heal attractive, now delusional people think its an interesting heal/design.

If you want warriors go back to trash mode then I guess that would be fine.

5x Warrior, 5x Ranger, 4x Elementalist, 4x Engineer,
4x Necromancer, 3x Mesmer, 4x Guardian, 4x Thief, 4 Revenant

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Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

Having 300hps+ adrenal health would not make you useless. Come on now… Especially if the on-use became something worth using like I had also suggested. You act like warriors are on the verge of being totally useless. Hint: They’re not. And if you feel warriors are in a good spot, I suggest you try some other classes out for a bit and compare your findings. Most people have to actually press the heal button to stay alive, which I’m sure would be your biggest learning curve, at this point. Not to mention, people above me seem to think healing surge is just fine (not my words), so if healing signet got nerfed a bit, clearly they’d be just fine. <_<

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)

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Posted by: Padrion.7382

Padrion.7382

I enjoy the regeneration of Healing Signet pretty much but its clearly bad game design if no one ever thinks about using the active because its so ineffective in comparison. My biggest concern at the moment is to not accidentally press the healing button. I have thought about disabeling it when i play my warrior – thats ridiculous! Lower the passive healing a bit (not to much!) and make the active worth using in emergency cases.

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Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

I enjoy the regeneration of Healing Signet pretty much but its clearly bad game design if no one ever thinks about using the active because its so ineffective in comparison. My biggest concern at the moment is to not accidentally press the healing button. I have thought about disabeling it when i play my warrior – thats ridiculous! Lower the passive healing a bit (not to much!) and make the active worth using in emergency cases.

Which is exactly what I suggested.

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)

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Posted by: Phillip.6485

Phillip.6485

I would suggest not touching anything Warrior for a long, long time. Like 10 years.

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Posted by: Harper.4173

Harper.4173

Having 300hps+ adrenal health would not make you useless. Come on now… Especially if the on-use became something worth using like I had also suggested. You act like warriors are on the verge of being totally useless. Hint: They’re not. And if you feel warriors are in a good spot, I suggest you try some other classes out for a bit and compare your findings. Most people have to actually press the heal button to stay alive, which I’m sure would be your biggest learning curve, at this point. Not to mention, people above me seem to think healing surge is just fine (not my words), so if healing signet got nerfed a bit, clearly they’d be just fine. <_<

Healing signet is fine at the moment.
People going " my concern is not to press the heal button by accident " have obviously never been in fights where they were literally an inch away from dying.

If you only PVE it’s perfectly understandable why you feel that you don’t need to use it.
By its core design HS is supposed to offer good passive healing and sustain.
It is a PASSIVE PLUS Skill. Meaning the passive is the really good part. The active part of the skill is an emergency " i need to not die this very instant " button.
Please – stop trying to fix what isn’t broken. Warrior has been gutted enough already with the hammer nerf ( which might be justifiable) and the longbow nerf ( which was totally uncalled for).
Do you people want to kill the class for good ?

If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”

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Posted by: Padrion.7382

Padrion.7382

The active part of the skill is an emergency " i need to not die this very instant " button.

No it’s not. Because the heal is so weak I’m going to die anyways so I’m not wasting 1,25 seconds trying to activate it. Situtations were it actually would make difference are so rare, even in pvp, that most players probably never encountered one…

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Posted by: Kagamiku.9731

Kagamiku.9731

I’ve used the HS active plenty of times and it was the sole reason I survived. The passive still takes a handful of seconds to compare to the HS active and sometimes it is worth using.

Though if you want to reduce the healing a bit and make its activation broken like the mesmer passive heal then go right ahead. I’d love to have my signets reset on activation. Which btw, I can’t see how the healing signet is better than or on par with it in any way. Three illusions active at all times is childs play for a mesmer, and its activation is ridiculously good.

(edited by Kagamiku.9731)

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Posted by: Harper.4173

Harper.4173

The active part of the skill is an emergency " i need to not die this very instant " button.

No it’s not. Because the heal is so weak I’m going to die anyways so I’m not wasting 1,25 seconds trying to activate it. Situtations were it actually would make difference are so rare, even in pvp, that most players probably never encountered one…

do you even pvp/wvw?

If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”

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Posted by: CntrlAltDefeat.1465

CntrlAltDefeat.1465

Healing signet is fine as it is now for passive. If u want to improve active i suggest to take a look at mesmer signet, and make our active reset signet cd’s.

I thank you for your opinion but I ask why do you think it’s fine? It works, sure, but we don’t need something that you NEVER use. You put Healing Signet down and forget about it. Mesmers are not the topic of this thread so I ask you to refrain from mentioning them. I would like to see more dynamic gameplay and Healing Signet does not cut it.

“Something you never use.”
I use it for +40 precision per inactivated signet.
To focus entirely in pvp on remaining in melee range and avoiding animations that are delivered point blank.
To not have my rotations broken by using a self heal that resets or fails to work if I suddenly have to dodge at the last minute.

If warriors all carried a ranged swap set I could understand. However some of us are pure melee..we get close..we stay close and we prefer to not use greatsword/hammer in pvp.

Having to maintain near 180 range constantly, avoid heavy attacks where you have no flight time to give you breathing room and playing a tight style is more than enough challenge without having any use of ranged and doing it all while standing on a node so it doesn’t get entirely neutralised or captured.

Try playing that and i doubt you’ll be saying to yourself, “What this really lacks is me being able to take the time to use a 0.5 second heal that stops me dead in my tracks.”

In PvP/agony pounding fractals and dungeon bosses like lupi, healing signet is what allows pure melee warriors to do what they do best. They can’t use a big heal, and bad timing/evading will quickly leave you dead with healing signet alone..but if you practice and time and play reactionary then healing signet absolutely fills the spot perfectly. It keeps you alive in close provided you avoid the big hits, but doesn’t give you a big heal if you fail and need one.

If you use melee/range evenly..then healing signet is easily out done by better heals that can be traited.

Just say’n.

(edited by CntrlAltDefeat.1465)

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Posted by: silentnight warrior.2714

silentnight warrior.2714

There is a reason why warriors dont use the active side of healing signet. Its because the active side is realy bad.
Its fine as it is now. Good against conditions and weak against power bursts. If you dont want to use it, use other heals instead.

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Posted by: Rauderi.8706

Rauderi.8706

I get by just fine with Healing Signet. That might be because I’m spec’d for survival (Signet, Defense talent for regen, and Healing Banner), so my boost to healing power and several sources of regen help me keep up.
While I’d like the active effect to be a bit better in a pinch, I take it more as a challenge to play defensively while the Signet does its work. Considering my warrior laughs off a good quarter to half of damage mechanics, I’d say it’s working pretty well.

Many alts; handle it!
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it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632

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Posted by: bobomb.5209

bobomb.5209

Healing signet is fine as it is now for passive. If u want to improve active i suggest to take a look at mesmer signet, and make our active reset signet cd’s.

I thank you for your opinion but I ask why do you think it’s fine? It works, sure, but we don’t need something that you NEVER use. You put Healing Signet down and forget about it. Mesmers are not the topic of this thread so I ask you to refrain from mentioning them. I would like to see more dynamic gameplay and Healing Signet does not cut it.

“Something you never use.”
I use it for +40 precision per inactivated signet.
To focus entirely in pvp on remaining in melee range and avoiding animations that are delivered point blank.
To not have my rotations broken by using a self heal that resets or fails to work if I suddenly have to dodge at the last minute.

If warriors all carried a ranged swap set I could understand. However some of us are pure melee..we get close..we stay close and we prefer to not use greatsword/hammer in pvp.

Having to maintain near 180 range constantly, avoid heavy attacks where you have no flight time to give you breathing room and playing a tight style is more than enough challenge without having any use of ranged and doing it all while standing on a node so it doesn’t get entirely neutralised or captured.

Try playing that and i doubt you’ll be saying to yourself, “What this really lacks is me being able to take the time to use a 0.5 second heal that stops me dead in my tracks.”

In PvP/agony pounding fractals and dungeon bosses like lupi, healing signet is what allows pure melee warriors to do what they do best. They can’t use a big heal, and bad timing/evading will quickly leave you dead with healing signet alone..but if you practice and time and play reactionary then healing signet absolutely fills the spot perfectly. It keeps you alive in close provided you avoid the big hits, but doesn’t give you a big heal if you fail and need one.

If you use melee/range evenly..then healing signet is easily out done by better heals that can be traited.

Just say’n.

And I thank you for saying it. But the weakness to healing signet is power bursts. So you described dodging heavily hitting bosses to make a statement that what…. you can dodge? And unfortunately you are not immobilized when using a healing skill. No root is applied that stops you in your tracks. Before Defiant Stance. Healing Signet was the only trait able healing skill. Now +40 precision per signet is laughable at level 80 and you should know this. To quote myself “You NEVER use” Healing Signet, ever. The definition of “use” is “The act of using something, a way in which something is or can be used”. What I mean by this, is that to USE Healing Signet you need to activate the skill. That means pressing the 6th button or whatever you have bound it to. Now by the very design of healing signet against burst bosses. Healing Signet is not keeping you alive, YOU ARE. Well-Timed dodges and blocks allows healing signet to heal you over time, sure. But what if you make a mistake before you are at full health and get bursted down into downed state? If you had healing surge, a well placed defiant stance, or hell even Mending. You would have had a good portion of your health back. And with your well-timed dodges and blocks by the time you needed a heal you would have it. I am pure melee (axe/mace and mace/sword) and I loathe the current state of Healing Signet. It is just aweful. With no counter play against it save poison, no reason to use the heal, and mediocre trait bonuses. This is simply a badly designed skill. You may say “But it’s been in the game since launch and no one has complained about it till now”. Yes no one has complained because it was highly unused. Therefore no one could mention the problems associated with it. It’s like “If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around did it make a sound?” Just because it has been poorly designed from the start doesn’t excuse its flawed design in the first place. What I have suggested would let it keep its original function. Give sustain to the warrior. BUT would also allow warriors leniency should their health get low, and allow counter play by having classes make the warrior activate it as an emergency. I thank you for your argument, and hope you will respond with an equally medium challenged argument.

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Posted by: Zach.3264

Zach.3264

I never use Healing Signet because it never needs to be used
about 9/10 times I never use my Heal signet before I die. The active is so crap I always forget about it. I’m not going to complain though, the passive is amazing and I’m more than happy for it to stay the way it is.

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Posted by: Heta.8629

Heta.8629

I’m pretty sure the reason the active sucks is because it was designed that way. Meaning you are supposed to have the passive keep you alive while other means of damage mitigation (stances, regen, shouts , dodge , block etc). You miss out on bonuses for activating your heal from runes and a burst heal when you need it