Guild Wars 2

Healing Signet is one of the worst high level heals in the give, with the nerfs to healing, it should be improved greatly some how.

¹ Improve the Healing Signet’s Heal by 80% and scale a little higher with HP. (Warriors have NO condition removal less they go 30 into vitality and give up almost every utility slot for it, they deserve some kind of sustain.) [The other heals are better HPS and grant adrenaline or condition removal, there is no reason this heal should be so weak compared to others.]

² Improve “Adrenal Health’s” heal by 50% and make it scale high with HP (it should be higher then regeneration, because its every 3 seconds and not every second.), its in the tree that gives healing power and it heals you, no excuses… let it scale with it! :<

healing signet is just bad.! the slow hp regen and low burst heal can’t save you from certain death when 5+ mobs that has half health depleting hits gunning for you.. or another burst class in wvw that burst you down in seconds..
instead of buffing the signet, howbout giving some of the warrior’s skill an extra 3-5 second stealth ! xD

Grounder.7381:

healing signet is just bad.! the slow hp regen and low burst heal can’t save you from certain death when 5+ mobs that has half health depleting hits gunning for you.. or another burst class in wvw that burst you down in seconds..
instead of buffing the signet, howbout giving some of the warrior’s skill an extra 3-5 second stealth ! xD

You implied “Extra” as if we have it… >_>

Yeah healing signet is a joke in both PvP and PvE.

This heal basically provides less hp/s than surge/healing without any “extra effect” like surge’s adren boost or mending condition removal.
Sure, in theory, if you let it heal you for a lot in between uses the “overall” heal is better than other skills, but in reality this game revolves around burst damage, burst defenses and burst healing.
You cannot possibly sacrifice your heal skill to get 200hp/s.
I tried a setup with 417hp/s but it simply doesn’t work in any endgame content.

Ranger’s Troll Unguent is an example of a good regen-based skill.

Red Falcon.8257:

Yeah healing signet is a joke in both PvP and PvE.

This heal basically provides less hp/s than surge/healing without any “extra effect” like surge’s adren boost or mending condition removal.
Sure, in theory, if you let it heal you for a lot in between uses the “overall” heal is better than other skills, but in reality this game revolves around burst damage, burst defenses and burst healing.
You cannot possibly sacrifice your heal skill to get 200hp/s.
I tried a setup with 417hp/s but it simply doesn’t work in any endgame content.

Ranger’s Troll Unguent is an example of a good regen-based skill, HSignet is a fail.

Actually the other healing skills have higher HPS calculated, so its kind of fail all around. Lol.

I don’t give a crap about healing signet, but what I would love to see a boost to adrenal health.

Adrenal Health does need improvement…

The latest patch nerfed Healing Signet.

I doubt they will flipflop and buff it now…

Oglaf.1074:

The latest patch nerfed Healing Signet.

I doubt they will flipflop and buff it now…

I agree, it did heal for far too much at low levels, it was healing for like almost half your life.

For high levels though, when its heals are so poor…

At 80, the heal is a bit low when compared to the other warrior heal skills:

6000 healing over 30 seconds, and no need to cast a heal as a benefit. 3.3% scaling on healing power for the passive
3320 every 20 seconds at the cost of 4000 (3200 traited) future healing lost

That’s compared to:

5240-8440 for Healing Surge over 30 seconds. Added benefit of full adrenaline fill

6672 (5560 ever 25 sec, normalized to 30s) for Mending with 2 conditions removed

It’s also a bit low when compared to other classes’ healing signet skills:

Thief: 100 health/hit. 15s cooldown, 5% scaling on passive

Elementalist: 200 health/cast. 25s cooldown, 10% scaling on passive

After looking at the numbers, it’s the 3.3% scaling on healing power that completely makes HS bad. It should scale at 10%.

Adrenal reserves really needs to scale with healing power. But it’s scaling, as a non-heal skill will be poor.

Daecollo.9578:

Oglaf.1074:

The latest patch nerfed Healing Signet.

I doubt they will flipflop and buff it now…

I agree, it did heal for far too much at low levels, it was healing for like almost half your life.

For high levels though, when its heals are so poor…

Before it was good at lower levels, but lost all power at higher levels.

Now it is just bad at any stage.

Urgh.

Yea we really need some form of healing outside of our heal skill. I’ve seen alot of threads about healing on adrenaline use/gain, seems like it would be good. Might actually give me a reason to use my burst.

i agree with healing signet, should scale better with healing power
an 208 + 0.12 of healing power would not be overpowered at all.
it would basicily give you at 300 healing power 242 Hp/SEC , with some celestial (divinity runes /celestial rings and wvwvw bonuses at 290 hp/sec

Rayya.2591:

i agree with healing signet, should scale better with healing power
an 208 + 0.12 of healing power would not be overpowered at all.
it would basicily give you at 300 healing power 242 Hp/SEC , with some celestial (divinity runes /celestial rings and wvwvw bonuses at 290 hp/sec

Hmmm… interesting thought…
With 2000 Healing Power = 240 + base of 208 = 448 per second. Add in Adrenal Health healing and that’s a whopping 573 health per second…
With Shield, Endure Pain, Shield/Stance traits and maybe furious reaction + warhorn secondary… you could make a serious bunker build 0____0
Or hell, why not add in banner healing! haha

Balancing a healing ability for a stat really isn’t a good design.

Daecollo.9578:

Balancing a healing ability for a stat really isn’t a good design.

Well, I guess since you have 600+ hours you must be right~

CookMETEnder.7582:

Daecollo.9578:

Balancing a healing ability for a stat really isn’t a good design.

Well, I guess since you have 600+ hours you must be right~

I’m always right, even when i’m wrong.

I trust Anet to do be on the right path. I think they want to be very careful when balancing this skill. It was definitely too much at lower levels and it is too weak at 80. I think round one was lowering the heal at lower levels and the next stage will be buffing up the regen at 80.

Oglaf.1074:

Daecollo.9578:

Oglaf.1074:

The latest patch nerfed Healing Signet.

I doubt they will flipflop and buff it now…

I agree, it did heal for far too much at low levels, it was healing for like almost half your life.

For high levels though, when its heals are so poor…

Before it was good at lower levels, but lost all power at higher levels.

Now it is just bad at any stage.

Urgh.

That’s all true, but the nerf doesn’t necessarily mean that they won’t buff it, in fact it makes it a little more likely, oddly enough. Before, if they had buffed Healing Signet at all, it would have been grossly overpowered at lower levels to a ludicrous degree (it was already clearly the best option by miles up until the 60s, due to the way it scaled). Now, having nerfed it at lower levels, they can take a more serious look at it, and potentially improve it, particularly at higher levels.

However, I rather suspect it will stay how it is, simply because of the popularity of the 5-signet-GS warrior build.

Eurhetemec.9052:

Oglaf.1074:

Daecollo.9578:

Oglaf.1074:

The latest patch nerfed Healing Signet.

I doubt they will flipflop and buff it now…

I agree, it did heal for far too much at low levels, it was healing for like almost half your life.

For high levels though, when its heals are so poor…

Before it was good at lower levels, but lost all power at higher levels.

Now it is just bad at any stage.

Urgh.

That’s all true, but the nerf doesn’t necessarily mean that they won’t buff it, in fact it makes it a little more likely, oddly enough. Before, if they had buffed Healing Signet at all, it would have been grossly overpowered at lower levels to a ludicrous degree (it was already clearly the best option by miles up until the 60s, due to the way it scaled). Now, having nerfed it at lower levels, they can take a more serious look at it, and potentially improve it, particularly at higher levels.

However, I rather suspect it will stay how it is, simply because of the popularity of the 5-signet-GS warrior build.

Lately, shout warriors/banner warriors are becomming a lot more common, especially after the Omnom nerf, a lot of warriors don’t use signets as much anymore.

I wouldn’t mind some buffs to Healing Signet. I think it’s alright currently though. As a passive heal, it synergizes with other passive healing. You can get yourself up to 600HP/s with traits and regen pretty easy and higher than that when you’re specc’ed for healing.

If it were improved, perhaps a bit more of a curve in how it heals or utility for certain builds?

Some ideas:

-Healing Signet provides more passive healing when under 33% health (basically 2 healing tics per second). And/or the active healing of this skill is improved when under 33% health. Basically function better in emergency. As a heal, that is all this skill does so should be pretty good at it. The others give adrenaline or remove conditions so yeah…

-Passive provides a stacking buff to healing power every time you take damage (1sec cooldown). So this becomes the “healer’s heal” in that, if you have healing shouts or regen banners, you use this skill to boost your heals for those skills as well.

-Alternatively to the one above, simply add a passive effect that converts a % of vitality to Healing Power or somehow makes Warrior heals influenced by vitality instead of just healing power.

Regardless of how much healing this skill does, unless it can replace burst healing (or somehow prevent damage) it will never heal enough for it to be a considered a viable alternative…unless you overpower it like it used to be in low levels.

So that’s my thought…make it a better heal by scaling it based on your HP or build it for utility wherein it improves other burst/passive heals.

Leo G.4501:

I wouldn’t mind some buffs to Healing Signet. I think it’s alright currently though. As a passive heal, it synergizes with other passive healing. You can get yourself up to 600HP/s with traits and regen pretty easy and higher than that when you’re specc’ed for healing.

If it were improved, perhaps a bit more of a curve in how it heals or utility for certain builds?

Some ideas:

-Healing Signet provides more passive healing when under 33% health (basically 2 healing tics per second). And/or the active healing of this skill is improved when under 33% health. Basically function better in emergency. As a heal, that is all this skill does so should be pretty good at it. The others give adrenaline or remove conditions so yeah…

-Passive provides a stacking buff to healing power every time you take damage (1sec cooldown). So this becomes the “healer’s heal” in that, if you have healing shouts or regen banners, you use this skill to boost your heals for those skills as well.

-Alternatively to the one above, simply add a passive effect that converts a % of vitality to Healing Power or somehow makes Warrior heals influenced by vitality instead of just healing power.

Regardless of how much healing this skill does, unless it can replace burst healing (or somehow prevent damage) it will never heal enough for it to be a considered a viable alternative…unless you overpower it like it used to be in low levels.

So that’s my thought…make it a better heal by scaling it based on your HP or build it for utility wherein it improves other burst/passive heals.

If you give up all your damage and get 600 HPS, you might as well just reroll guardian.
They can get that with no healing power and no sacrifice to damage, and without even using there ‘6’ healing ability.

This is why its badly designed, nothing should be designed around a stat, it should be balanced around any build, and the stats just improve that over all.

Daecollo.9578:

If you give up all your damage and get 600 HPS, you might as well just reroll guardian.
They can get that with no healing power and no sacrifice to damage.

This is why its badly designed, nothing should be designed around a stat, it should be balanced around any build, and the stats just improve that over all.

But I don’t ‘give up all of my damage’. I can still get plenty of damage and outsurvive the mobs. While I can agree sacrifices are made and how it currently is set-up isn’t optimal, don’t speak in absolutes. Not when people will translate it literally.

Leo G.4501:

Daecollo.9578:

If you give up all your damage and get 600 HPS, you might as well just reroll guardian.
They can get that with no healing power and no sacrifice to damage.

This is why its badly designed, nothing should be designed around a stat, it should be balanced around any build, and the stats just improve that over all.

But I don’t ‘give up all of my damage’. I can still get plenty of damage and outsurvive the mobs. While I can agree sacrifices are made and how it currently is set-up isn’t optimal, don’t speak in absolutes. Not when people will translate it literally.

To get 600 HPS you need atleast 1000+ healing power, that means you have to sacrifice a lot of critical bonus, you also have to sacrifice a lot of traits, sacrificing even more damage. Guardian does not have to do that, most of there healing is just built in or on trees that have damage around them.

And please don’t mention shouts, it will just add so much confusion due to the fact nobody is going to just use them for just the healing, you have to use them when you need to use them.

Daecollo.9578:

To get 600 HPS you need atleast 1000+ healing power, that means you have to sacrifice a lot of critical bonus, you also have to sacrifice a lot of traits, sacrificing even more damage. Guardian does not have to do that, most of there healing is just built in or on trees that have damage around them.

And please don’t mention shouts, it will just add so much confusion due to the fact nobody is going to just use them for just the healing, you have to use them when you need to use them.

Sigil of Life = 25 stacks = 250 Healing Power
Banner of Tactics = 90 Healing
30 points in Tactics = Regen Banners
15 points in Defense = Adrenal Health = 120HP/s
Signet of Healing = Stackable Regen
Food = Something like Omnomberry pie for something in the ballpark of 200HP/s averaged to even the simple Mango pie for 88HP/s

It adds up to over 600HP/s.

My regen banner warrior doesn’t even have equipment dedicated to healing (just the sigil really) and can get around 550HP/s without even touching Defense trait line, the rest of his points being in Discipline and Strength. Using healing power to augment regen is flawed because of how much it requires to get decent returns, that’s why any armor or gear sacrificed for it hurts…so don’t use gear. Use traits, utilities and food.

It’s not about what Guardian can do compared, it’s what you can do as a Warrior along with the other stuff you have equipped.

Leo G.4501:

Daecollo.9578:

To get 600 HPS you need atleast 1000+ healing power, that means you have to sacrifice a lot of critical bonus, you also have to sacrifice a lot of traits, sacrificing even more damage. Guardian does not have to do that, most of there healing is just built in or on trees that have damage around them.

And please don’t mention shouts, it will just add so much confusion due to the fact nobody is going to just use them for just the healing, you have to use them when you need to use them.

Sigil of Life = 25 stacks = 250 Healing Power
Banner of Tactics = 90 Healing
30 points in Tactics = Regen Banners
15 points in Defense = Adrenal Health = 120HP/s
Signet of Healing = Stackable Regen
Food = Something like Omnomberry pie for something in the ballpark of 200HP/s averaged to even the simple Mango pie for 88HP/s

It adds up to over 600HP/s.

My regen banner warrior doesn’t even have equipment dedicated to healing (just the sigil really) and can get around 550HP/s without even touching Defense trait line, the rest of his points being in Discipline and Strength. Using healing power to augment regen is flawed because of how much it requires to get decent returns, that’s why any armor or gear sacrificed for it hurts…so don’t use gear. Use traits, utilities and food.

It’s not about what Guardian can do compared, it’s what you can do as a Warrior along with the other stuff you have equipped.

If thats the case, (since you added gear/food to this.) a Guardian can do 900-1200 HPS without sacrificing anything, not even a utility slot.

A warrior has to sacrifice 30 points in a utility tree, and a utility slot, and a sigil.

Daecollo.9578:

If thats the case, (since you added gear/food to this.) a Guardian can do 900-1200 HPS without sacrificing anything, not even a utility slot.

A warrior has to sacrifice 30 points in a utility tree, and a utility slot, and a sigil.

You didn’t finish reading my post, obviously.

It’s not about what a guardian can do compared. Because there’s more you’re doing besides getting that healing. You’re simply sidestepping that fact.

And you’re derailing your own thread. The passive healing can be very potent along with other forms of passive healing. Supplemented by armor and naturally high HP makes the passive healing even more effective. You’re focusing on other classes’ passive healing which is outside the scope of your own understanding of balance not to mention the way the system works, you have the choice of passive healing or reactive healing by simply swapping utilities.

But I’m not even advocating builds focused around passive healing, simply stating you can get a substantial amount without focusing on it. I am highlighting the fact that as a passive heal, it can keep you going but it cannot do anything else other than that (i.e. it cannot help you recover from a substantial burst, keep the pressure off or offer any other sort of utility effect other heals can offer).

You seem to only want to take the route of overpowering a skill to make it attractive rather than improve overall utility and synergy. I can tell you now, they aren’t going to buff Healing Signet’s heal straight out because it’s already balanced around the metrics of the other Warrior heals.

So yeah, I can tell you right now, they aren’t going to make Healing Signet heal for more than Mending while also having a passive heal when not used. End of story.

Daecollo is right on this.
I too tried a 600hps build, it simply doesn’t add enough sustain, especially since it comes with sacrificing your heal skill.
Try frac40+ before you comment on the effectiveness of things.
Any content below that mark can be done traitless and naked, doesn’t make traitless/naked an effective build.

Red Falcon.8257:

Daecollo is right on this.
I too tried a 600hps build, it simply doesn’t add enough sustain, especially since it comes with sacrificing your heal skill.
Try frac40+ before you comment on the effectiveness of things.
Any content below that mark can be done traitless and naked, doesn’t make traitless/naked an effective build.

And frac40 content doesn’t invalidate all other content and builds. As trivial as you feel content is, that doesn’t make it so. Sorry, but you’re not the standard everything else is held to.

Fun little exercise in comparison for sustained regeneration. Assuming 300 Healing Power, Warrior gets:
Healing Signet: 209 /second
Adrenal Health: 120 /second
Total: 329 / second
Active Heal: 3620
Total regen drops to 120/second assuming full adrenaline for 20 seconds

Ranger:
Signet of the Wild: 80 / second
Natural Healing: 67 /second
Total: 147/second

Active Healing:
Heal as One: 6820 hp
Total: remains 147 /second.

If you maintain full passive healing, with adrenaline maintained full, a Warrior will heal 19740 per minute and a Ranger will heal 8820 per minute. Advantage Warrior. Even if you assume that Adrenal Health is not healing for half of the time, the number comes out to be 16140 which is roughly twice the ranger’s passive.

HOWEVER, as soon as a burst situation comes into play, where you are cycling heals as fast as possible, the numbers change. HAO and HS both have the same activation time and untraited cooldown. Let’s assume for a moment that you can activate them 3 times in one minute (20s cooldown, disregarding 1.5 second casting)
Warrior: 18060 per minute assuming full adrenaline.
Ranger: 29280 per minute

You’ll note that there’s a possibility that the sustained heal of the warrior actually goes DOWN when in a burst defense situation, while the ranger burst heal more than triples. Even with traits, estimating Healing signet to cast 4x in one minute, the warrior burst heal only moves up to 21680, which is a mere 2k improvement. Let’s take it ONE step further.
“Signet of the Wild is an additional utility slot so we need to even up the comparison.” Okay I’ll buy that. Let’s add a traited FGJ with healing shouts to that. You have now bumped up your healing to 25976 per minute which is still over 3000 less healing per minute than a ranger using Heal as One.

What those numbers suggest to me is simply that Healing Signet does not provide sufficient burst heal response unless traited to allow other abilities to provide heals.

profgast.7816:

Fun little exercise in comparison for sustained regeneration. Assuming 300 Healing Power, Warrior gets:
Healing Signet: 209 /second
Adrenal Health: 120 /second
Total: 329 / second
Active Heal: 3620
Total regen drops to 120/second assuming full adrenaline for 20 seconds

Ranger:
Signet of the Wild: 80 / second
Natural Healing: 67 /second
Total: 147/second

Active Healing:
Heal as One: 6820 hp
Total: remains 147 /second.

If you maintain full passive healing, with adrenaline maintained full, a Warrior will heal 19740 per minute and a Ranger will heal 8820 per minute. Advantage Warrior. Even if you assume that Adrenal Health is not healing for half of the time, the number comes out to be 16140 which is roughly twice the ranger’s passive.

HOWEVER, as soon as a burst situation comes into play, where you are cycling heals as fast as possible, the numbers change. HAO and HS both have the same activation time and untraited cooldown. Let’s assume for a moment that you can activate them 3 times in one minute (20s cooldown, disregarding 1.5 second casting)
Warrior: 18060 per minute assuming full adrenaline.
Ranger: 29280 per minute

You’ll note that there’s a possibility that the sustained heal of the warrior actually goes DOWN when in a burst defense situation, while the ranger burst heal more than triples. Even with traits, estimating Healing signet to cast 4x in one minute, the warrior burst heal only moves up to 21680, which is a mere 2k improvement. Let’s take it ONE step further.
“Signet of the Wild is an additional utility slot so we need to even up the comparison.” Okay I’ll buy that. Let’s add a traited FGJ with healing shouts to that. You have now bumped up your healing to 25976 per minute which is still over 3000 less healing per minute than a ranger using Heal as One.

What those numbers suggest to me is simply that Healing Signet does not provide sufficient burst heal response unless traited to allow other abilities to provide heals.

The problem is Ranger is pretty much IMMUNE to conditions, whilst the Warrior is not.

They also have heavy access to protection/regeneration/vigor.