Guild Wars 2

I was in search for the best heal skills (in terms of hp points given back) for the warrior and I wondered whether Healing Signet or Healing Surge is better.

So I did a little maths, just taking the wiki values.
I consider that Healing Surge is used at maximum adrenaline, which you can do easily, especially with an axe.

If you use Healing Surge when your adrenaline is full (which you should always do), it will give you 8,440hp. It has a cooldown time of 30s. So in average, it makes 281,33hp/s.

About the healing Signet now.
While passive, the healing signet will provide 200hp/s. So, it’s under the Healing Surge.
When activated, the Signet loose the regeneration effect, granting 3,320hp, with a cooldown time of 20 sec before active or passive being available again.
At that point, it makes 166hp/s.

As we can see, the Healing Surge provide the best heal.
Of course, I don’t say Healing Surge is better than Healing Signet. A regeneration (that you don’t have to care about nor activate) is great. But the healing signet provides a regeneration with a possibility of burst when needed (active).

So, after I did that, I thought I should share it on the warrior forum, and here is it.
Hope that helps.

(I’ve not included the adrenaline boost that the Healing Surge provides too, but I think it’s minor anyway).

Healing Surge adrenaline boost is 1 bar of adrenaline.

Are you sure ? Healing surge is 10 adrenaline, but I don’t know if it’s based on the 100% bar or the number of strikes needed.
Anyway, that wasn’t the point, my demonstration was more about the usefulness in terms of heal.

this discusion is academic at best, since mending is much better than both due to the condition removal, which is absolutly mandatory after the lvl 60 mark for pretty much everything, PvP, PvE, dungeons or WvW.

I agree with Konrad about mending being the best but if you still want the regen you could get the Dolyak rune which gives regeneration and lots of extra toughness/vitality. I’m giving it a hard look along with a few other runes. The only thing you’re really losing is a little dps but that’s probably worth it for the added survivability.

I don’t agree about Mending being best. It’s 224hp/s, and one condition removal. It’s obviously better than Healing Signet (even if the Signet can have other uses), but there’s a lot of other ways to get rid of condition : Shake it Off, Stability, some traits.

Proeliator.8740:

I agree with Konrad about mending being the best but if you still want the regen you could get the Dolyak rune which gives regeneration and lots of extra toughness/vitality. I’m giving it a hard look along with a few other runes. The only thing you’re really losing is a little dps but that’s probably worth it for the added survivability.

Dolyak Rune 6 piece bonus only gives 30 health regen/tic. It also isn’t affected by +healing gear. The bonus is pretty worthless imo.

This is coming from someone who builds toughness/healing and utilizes banner regeneration and loves it. It just doesn’t have a place in any build sadly.

@ PanH

Mending actually cures 2 conditions not 1.

Mending is on a 25 second cooldown and base heal is 5560 so that’s 222hp/sec

Healing surge is on a 30 second cooldown and base heal is at 5880/6840/8440 respectively depending on adrenaline. That equates to 196/228/281 hp per sec depending on adrenaline level.

So based on that the only way healing surge outperforms mending is if you have max adrenaline which means you run a build that requires no adrenaline use and you run something that reliably removes conditions maybe a warhorn/shout build or something. Your total healing using healing surge over mending would be 1780 health over 30 seconds which is pretty insignificant really.

Shake if off only removes one condition and skill slots are extremely valuable. Unless you’re running a healing shout build I couldn’t see a reason to burn a slot here. Stability is great but it’s primarily for incapacitates it doesn’t effect all conditions and only last 8 sec out of 40. Having multiple ways to remove conditions is a good thing.

In PVP I think the condition removal is extremely important in PVE if you’re running a GS build or sword/warhorn build with no need for adrenaline use then I guess you could make a case for healing surge.

Grundnir.3852:

Proeliator.8740:

I agree with Konrad about mending being the best but if you still want the regen you could get the Dolyak rune which gives regeneration and lots of extra toughness/vitality. I’m giving it a hard look along with a few other runes. The only thing you’re really losing is a little dps but that’s probably worth it for the added survivability.

Dolyak Rune 6 piece bonus only gives 30 health regen/tic. It also isn’t affected by +healing gear. The bonus is pretty worthless imo.

This is coming from someone who builds toughness/healing and utilizes banner regeneration and loves it. It just doesn’t have a place in any build sadly.

Oh thanks Grundnir I didn’t realize regeneration worked differently depending on what was providing it. I thought it was just a boon you either had or didn’t have. That makes me rethink a few things

There are a lot of different skills and abilities that provide regen so I guess it’s different for all of them?

i personally use healing sig because my build basically stacks regen from healing banners, adrenal health trait in the defense line and heal sig. I am healing a total of around 650hp/s and that’s in beserkers gear. I’m traited 30 in tactics, 20 in defense and 20 in strength

siepher.9408:

i personally use healing sig because my build basically stacks regen from healing banners, adrenal health trait in the defense line and heal sig. I am healing a total of around 650hp/s and that’s in beserkers gear. I’m traited 30 in tactics, 20 in defense and 20 in strength

I had no idea you could stack regen on intensity. I thought you either had it or you didn’t. I thought it was a boon that stacked in duration not in intensity. That’s what the GW2 Wiki says at least but it could be wrong.

Are you sure the additional regen isn’t just from your base regen from healing signet and the regen from your adrenaline? I think they each tic for something like 200 and 350 respectively?

@ proeliator

they aren’t all the same as the regen boon. the signet is its own buff as well as the adrenal health trait. what happens is i see three numbers appear on my screen for the regen, one for each source. so while you can’t stack regen BOONs, you can stack regen from different sources

siepher.9408:

@ proeliator

they aren’t all the same as the regen boon. the signet is its own buff as well as the adrenal health trait. what happens is i see three numbers appear on my screen for the regen, one for each source. so while you can’t stack regen BOONs, you can stack regen from different sources

Thanks for the info. Very good to know!!!

Yeah, though this also means the 15 point defensive trait to heal based on your adrenaline level is also unaffected by +healing similar to the dolyak rune buff.

Though, it does not seem to be a hard and fast rule. Adrenal Health and the dolyak rune buff neither grant the actual boon regeneration itself, nor gain +healing bonuses, but then the healing signet also grants a regeneration effect that does not actually give you the regeneration boon, yet it IS affected by +healing.

Healing from shouts is a flat heal value rather then a healing over time and is effected by +healing.

Banners with traited for regeneration actually pulse the regeneration boon itself, and are therefore by default effected by +healing. So far as I’m aware anything that grants the actual boon is effected by +healing, but other effects that grant nebulous regenerative effects may or may not and just require testing to know.

@Proeliator
I said Mending was 224hp/s and you’re saying 222hp/s. That’s pretty much the same.

Also, about Adrenaline, it’s very easy to manage it so that you have max adren the moment you heal. If you have an axe (or 2), adrenaline goes up really fast, and so Healing Surge at max is nearly guaranteed.
In fact, I searched that to know if a build using axe + shield (or horn) was possible with great defense + shouts/dps.

That would have mean Restorative Strength, Adrenal Health, Last Stand (I heard it’s bugged, but not sure).

You can’t say : some healing skill is better than another. You have to count it as a part of a build. What I did here was merely comparing numbers, that you have to take account of when you’re making your build, that’s all.

Also, I just saw Signet Mastery, signet recharges 20% faster. I’m not sure of how to get the percentages right, but i’ll give a try.
The skill recharges in 20sec. That makes 5% per s.
+20% that makes 6%.
It takes approximately 16.66 sec to recharge, and so heal 199,2hp/s. Still not really worth it.

If you guys want, I can make a post with every heal the warrior can get, from shouts, heal skills, banneer. I would just need to find the data and the wiki seems to have some (not all though).

For regeneration, it seems to be a boon, that you have or not. But as bleeding, it can be stacked from different sources. Each source providing a different amount of hp. So all regeneration aren’t the same, some depends on healing power, some doesn’t.

PanH.1957:

For regeneration, it seems to be a boon, that you have or not. But as bleeding, it can be stacked from different sources. Each source providing a different amount of hp. So all regeneration aren’t the same, some depends on healing power, some doesn’t.

healing signet however does not give the regeneration boon, but a buff called healing signet that acts the same way, thus being able to stack in intensity with the regen boon provided from banners. the adrenal health trait is the same however no boon or buff appears on the status bar

One factor to consider (which may not be all that important for many people) is that the healing signet has a CD of only 20 seconds. Combine this with the 10 pt discipline signet recharge trait and this is down to 16 seconds. This will pump up base heals/sec on it’s own a bit.

More importantly, if you take advantage of the many ‘activate on heal’ rune set abilities, it can be quite nice getting these abilities every 16 seconds as opposed to (say) every 30 secs. Water, for example can provide another 1000+ in AoE heal every 16 seconds. Lyssa runes will give a random boon. There are others

Won’t matter to everyone of course, but something to consider.

I did the maths a bit lower, and Healing Signet + discipline trait still get lower hp than other heals. However, you’re right, combined with some rune set, that can be useful.
The shame is that the only healing skill focused only on healing (no other effects) is the less effective (by his own, or with faster recharge). Even if Healing Cure has some requisites (Adrenaline), that doesn’t seem very fair.

Per-second maths are worthless when talking about healing skills.
Heals are used once per fight, so the only thing that matters is how much they heal in the burst.
Surge gives you 3k more health allowing you to take 3k more damage before dying than you would with Mending.

Condition removal shouldn’t be something you give to your healing skill, just get shake it off, the passive, or soldier rune.

The heal you want to take is dependent on your build, more so than raw numbers. In general you want a bigger heal the more hp you have so you can effectively maintain your hp in a fight, while a build with less hp will want to heal as often as possible to offset damage taken. Though your durability factors into this as well (fragile builds need to heal often, sturdier build won’t need to).

Don’t forget you can trait for condition removal on heal (restoration strength; removes cripple, chill, immobilize, and weakness), and for passive regeneration based on adrenaline level (360 hp every 3s at full adrenaline).

Also do you plan on using your burst skill often? That may impact your choice.

Mending. That’s what you should use in endgame PvE and all types of PvP.

@Red Falcon : If you’re talking about PVE, you’re already wrong. Most fights are longer than 30s, especially in dungeons. PvP, yes, if you’re one one vs one. But if there’s a group, fight will be longer, then you’ll need to use it again.

@Numot : Yes, and that depends also on what you plan to do. Surviving very long (even if it’s more Guardian), short fights, etc. But in any case, you have to take these numbers in consideration.

If I would like the best healing combination, I would take Healing Surge + Restorative Strength, Adrenal Health, and either shout or banners heal (haven’t calculated yet what’s best). My aim was to put clear number on every heal, better than what you can find IG.

And about burst skills and adrenaline, it’s true that with some traits, you can get a lot more benefit from not using burst skills, you will gain Adrenal Health, Crit (discipline trait), etc. I think that’s a choice that’s left to the player, and that’s pretty good to be able to do one or the other. That’s another choice that’s to get taken account of.

I’m changing build quite frequently, testing them (in PvP mainly, even if I don’t really plan to PvP, more Pve or WvW). Currently, I am on a sword + shield, and rifle. Both sword and rifle make bleed, so arms traits. With crit discipline, adrenal health, and healing cure, I better not spend my adrenaline, except for finishing enemies and preventing them to escape (flurry : immobilize + lots of bleed + deep cut = death on any low hp).

About Mending, I got quite mixed feelings. The 2 condition removal are good, and the heal is average.

The fact is, let’s say someone is hitting me with bleed condition. The Mending will remove the whole stack. That will help, of course, and can be compared as a heal (non-damage). But 5-6s later, the bleed will be up again. I can’t really calculate the gain in terms of hp of that condition removal (need to take account of enemy’s condition damage, stack, skills, traits, etc), but I’m nearly sure that doesn’t outpace Healing Surge. At best, maybe it can equals it. That’s what I can say about Mending against poison, burning, bleeding and even against vulnerability.

Blind : one hit missed ? Except if it’s a very important skill, no use. And as I can see it, I won’t use an important skill. Nearly no use to remove it.

Fear : Can’t use Mending

Crippled and Chilled : the slow movement is a pain in the kitten for warrior, even if a lot of warriors have a ranged weapon to switch.

Immobilized : Very annoying, that’s a condition to remove (except when you can do the same, like Flurry)

Weakness : decrease your damage, and your dodge. That can be useful to remove.

Confusion : Not worth to remove, just play carefully.

If you look at condition that are worth to remove, there’s : immobilized, fear, crippled, chilled, maybe weakness. Restorative strength make for all of them (except fear).
Basically, removing the Dot you have is like extra health.
Shake it off is very useful, because you can use it anytime. The warrior just made everyone fleeing ? Shake it off, and everyone will be ok. Last Stand + Shake it Off + Restorative Strength and you’re as much immune to cc as you can be.

I would like to add : there’s lots of way to remove condition. Mending can be one, if you want to sacrifice a bit of healing. People saying that Mending is mandatory are just considering their own build and don’t look at others. I don’t say Mending is bad, just it’s not THE healing, as some people are saying.

Mending is really the only option. Even if i was rolling with a warhorn with 6/6 soldier runes and a shout build, i’d still bring mending. You honestly can never have too much condition removal in pvp. It can almost completely nullify some class/builds damage, and helps you maintain Time on Target so that you don’t get kited badly.

Healing signet is pretty bad once you get higher levels (ie 60+) because it scales so terribly. Its ok in the early levels, where it basically regens almost all the damage you take, but that doesn’t work later on. It also teaches bad habits (ie, getting used to using less buttons, watching less timers – a trait shared by every signet/signet based build)

In Pvp Mending is the way to go simply because it has the highest heal/sec exept you have all 3 adrenalin bars full. On top of that it removes 2 conditions.

Usally only gsworriors don’t use their burst still and they usally don’t have enough condition removal in their utilitys or traits because they opt for high damage, bull charge and frenzy.

In pve it’s personal prefrence between mending and surge. The Sigil does verry well on low levels but the higher you get the less efficent it gets.

@Recently : You can have enough condition removal without Mending.
The warriors has TONS of way to do it.
Shake it Off, Shrug it Off, Restorative Strength, Balanced Stance, Last Stand, Quick Breathing (this trait is magic : convert 1 condition into boon with warhorn), Dolyak Signet (not very useful, but still), Signet of Stamina (passive effect nearly useless), Battle Standard.
So, Mending’s the only option ? And Mending can’t nullify a class damage for the reason there’s a 25cd. If your enemy hasn’t put the condition back in a few sec, he’s really bad. If you want to remove condition all the way, you can’t take Mending alone.

And why should only gs don’t use their burst ? I’m not a fan of gs, because I found the group survivability and usefulness in WvW is lower than most other builds. But anyway, using burst or not is a choice : Adrenal Health, Heightened Focus, Berseker’s Power (even if not easy to get all these 3 traits together, Adrenal + Focus can already be a good reason not to spend burst skill unit low hp enemy). And no, it’s not signet + gs build …..

PanH.1957:

@Recently : You can have enough condition removal without Mending.
The warriors has TONS of way to do it.
Shake it Off, Shrug it Off, Restorative Strength, Balanced Stance, Last Stand, Quick Breathing (this trait is magic : convert 1 condition into boon with warhorn), Dolyak Signet (not very useful, but still), Signet of Stamina (passive effect nearly useless), Battle Standard.
So, Mending’s the only option ? And Mending can’t nullify a class damage for the reason there’s a 25cd. If your enemy hasn’t put the condition back in a few sec, he’s really bad. If you want to remove condition all the way, you can’t take Mending alone.

And why should only gs don’t use their burst ? I’m not a fan of gs, because I found the group survivability and usefulness in WvW is lower than most other builds. But anyway, using burst or not is a choice : Adrenal Health, Heightened Focus, Berseker’s Power (even if not easy to get all these 3 traits together, Adrenal + Focus can already be a good reason not to spend burst skill unit low hp enemy). And no, it’s not signet + gs build …..

Balanced stance, Last Stand and Dolyak Signet don’t remove conditions.

Just like Mending alone isn’t enough to keep all the conditions off you the traits and utility skills you named aren’t enogh either. Like Recently said, the more conditionremoval you bring the better.

You can make a build that relies on having full adrenalin and you not using your burstskill, but even then the extra heal from surge is hardly worth the conditionremoval you’d get from mending.

Stability prevents you from getting hit by some condition. It may not remove condition, but it prevents them. It also break stuns.
I’ve not tested every trait/skill I’ve quoted, but Warhorn + Quick Breathing is already very good against condition removal. Putting that with Last Stand/Shake it Off/Balanced Stance or/and Restorative Strength, and you’re mostly good.

And you don’t need a build that doesn’t use burst skill to use Healing Surge. Warrior has lots of hp. Most of times, you can wait a bit before using your heal skills. I find it very easy to get Burst Skill and Healing up at the same time.

I use healing surge over mending because my warhorn already removes conditions (traited), and that from the whole group. So mending its not something which you should ALWAYS take, as some people suggested.
If you’re in a PvE group with me you don’t need it either, as I’ll be removing your conditions as well.

I don’t remember ONE situation in a dungeon where I would’ve preferred mending, since I took up the warhorn, and that includes fights with condition-heavy bosses.

On the other hand, situations where I was thankful for every little slice of health given by surge are numerous.

I guess it depends on your style of play.
If you are someone with a lot of adrenalline all the time, it may just be better to go with the healing surge. For me, I send my adrenaline a lot because I pull out the mace and shield, and want to stun people. So I actually use Mending, with the warhorn and quick breathing trait.