Guild Wars 2

Is it viable? Is it worth doing? Will I actually be healing worth a kitten ?

with full healing 2.3k heals maybe? dont know what you’ll be doing inbetween this..maybe reviving teammates if you think thats helpful.

I like it, but I use all shouts and soldier runes with warhorn so it is a nice little bonus. It’s not worth building around though.

would need around +1000 to do 2.3k shouts. It’s nice to be able to instant 6k heal your party every 20-25 secs. If you already in a group with a lot of healing isnt much point, if you dont have a couple pocket guardians worth looking into

First of all: are we talking about PVP, PVE or WVW?

• PVP: Not worth. If you want to be a bunker-shouthealer go for Guardian
• WVW: I’m a newbie in that field.
• PVE: Absolutely worth. I’m currently running a build inspired by the “famous” Sonic Boon. I can share it if you want but it is 0-25-15-30-0 with 2 shouts (FGJ and SIO) and SoS for more dodges, HS as healing skill. Berserker jewelry and weapons (GS and LB) and Knight armor. You deal a high amount of damage while being a bit tanky with good AOE support (average 130 AOE HPS plus Might and Fury) and good self-sustain (average 660 HPS).

Only for wvw frontline zerging

Oni Link.4621:

First of all: are we talking about PVP, PVE or WVW?

• PVP: Not worth. If you want to be a bunker-shouthealer go for Guardian
• WVW: I’m a newbie in that field.
• PVE: Absolutely worth. I’m currently running a build inspired by the “famous” Sonic Boon. I can share it if you want but it is 0-25-15-30-0 with 2 shouts (FGJ and SIO) and SoS for more dodges, HS as healing skill. Berserker jewelry and weapons (GS and LB) and Knight armor. You deal a high amount of damage while being a bit tanky with good AOE support (average 130 AOE HPS plus Might and Fury) and good self-sustain (average 660 HPS).

You actually deal very low damage while prolonging boss fights, letting them beat your team up even longer.

Oni Link.4621:

First of all: are we talking about PVP, PVE or WVW?

• PVP: Not worth. If you want to be a bunker-shouthealer go for Guardian
• WVW: I’m a newbie in that field.
• PVE: Absolutely worth. I’m currently running a build inspired by the “famous” Sonic Boon. I can share it if you want but it is 0-25-15-30-0 with 2 shouts (FGJ and SIO) and SoS for more dodges, HS as healing skill. Berserker jewelry and weapons (GS and LB) and Knight armor. You deal a high amount of damage while being a bit tanky with good AOE support (average 130 AOE HPS plus Might and Fury) and good self-sustain (average 660 HPS).

PvP- no, warrior is lackluster in pvp regardless.
WvW- no, it only effects 5 people. >.>
PvE – no, it is not. You spam FGJ already, so in most situations your health will just be topped off and not really gaining anything out of it. Then if you blow SiO just for a heal you lose out on a stun break condition removal.

Taking 30 in tactics is just flat lackluster altogether all of the minor traits are terrible when compared to other lines or even other classes. If you must have 30 in tactics I suggest healing banners. A perma regen with the banner would help just as much in topping off your hp as spamming fgj would. Then you could save SiO for when its needed.

Signet of stamina is ok i guess but a banner brings so much more to the party, and since you are cutting your damage for support its kind of a must to take discipline banner.

traits I would do are 0/0/25/30/15.
def, shield reflect, sundering mace.
tactics, banner CD, shout CD, Banner heal
Disc, inspiring shouts
Take mace MH, sword off hand then another mace on off hand on swap switch that out with shield or ranged as needed.
If you learn your interrupts and blocks correctly there should be very little reason to ever dodge at all.
Full berserk armor/trinkets is very easy to do, if you need extra survivability knights armor with ruby orbs and emerald trinkets with ruby jewels.

@TheMaskedParadigm: Not really because I have permanently over 20 stack of Might without relying on others, that’s how I compensate for damage lack. Permanent Fury and Swiftness too.

@Dempsey: Banners are useless for boss fights because you have to keep moving around to dodge attacks, otherwise you are dead. Mace damage is low because it is very slow and weakness lasts only for 50% on bosses. Sword OH is absolutely not needed, single block and no damage output, shield is better if you need to parry.
If you move correctly and know how to dodge then you don’t need any block.
With your traits and weapons you deal no damage at all: slow and weak auto attacks and no Might stacking.

Oni Link.4621:

@TheMaskedParadigm: Not really because I have permanently over 20 stack of Might without relying on others, that’s how I compensate for damage lack. Permanent Fury and Swiftness too.

@Dempsey: Banners are useless for boss fights because you have to keep moving around to dodge attacks, otherwise you are dead. Mace damage is low because it is very slow and weakness lasts only for 50% on bosses. Sword OH is absolutely not needed, single block and no damage output, shield is better if you need to parry.
If you move correctly and know how to dodge then you don’t need any block.
With your traits and weapons you deal no damage at all: slow and weak auto attacks and no Might stacking.

How do you gain these might stacks?

Oni Link.4621:

@TheMaskedParadigm: Not really because I have permanently over 20 stack of Might without relying on others, that’s how I compensate for damage lack. Permanent Fury and Swiftness too.

@Dempsey: Banners are useless for boss fights because you have to keep moving around to dodge attacks, otherwise you are dead. Mace damage is low because it is very slow and weakness lasts only for 50% on bosses. Sword OH is absolutely not needed, single block and no damage output, shield is better if you need to parry.
If you move correctly and know how to dodge then you don’t need any block.
With your traits and weapons you deal no damage at all: slow and weak auto attacks and no Might stacking.

You don’t maintain 20 stacks of might by yourself. That’s simply not possible. Sonic Boon is a terrible build with low DPS, no useful utility, and no strategy other than spam shouts. As for the rest of your reply to Dempsey, I can’t even take you seriously at this point.

Oni Link.4621:

@TheMaskedParadigm: Not really because I have permanently over 20 stack of Might without relying on others, that’s how I compensate for damage lack. Permanent Fury and Swiftness too.

@Dempsey: Banners are useless for boss fights because you have to keep moving around to dodge attacks, otherwise you are dead. Mace damage is low because it is very slow and weakness lasts only for 50% on bosses. Sword OH is absolutely not needed, single block and no damage output, shield is better if you need to parry.
If you move correctly and know how to dodge then you don’t need any block.
With your traits and weapons you deal no damage at all: slow and weak auto attacks and no Might stacking.

Banners are useless? Congratulations……. You’re an idiot.

Assassin.7890:

How do you gain these might stacks?

• Base stacks: FGJ has 20s cooldown and gives me 3 stacks of Might for 42,5s. So only FGJ gives me 6 stacks (9 for a few seconds). If Battle Standard is not needed I can use SoR which gives 5 stacks for 51s. Till now there are 11 stacks.

• With GS: Thanks to “Forceful Greatsword” trait, each critical gives me kitten Might BUT I have 70% Boon duration, which means that every critical gives 8,5s Might. Critical rate is at 71% so it’s very easy to stack them. With a single target you reach an average of 20, a bit more when using 100B. If you are attacking two targets or more then you’ll reach 25 stacks very fast.

• With LB: I put in my LB a Superior Sigil of Strength which gives at 30% chance a stack of Might for 10s on a critical. Thanks to 70% Boon duration, each stack lasts for 17s, so even if they sigil activation is slower then Forceful Greatsword, Might stacks last longer and you can stack them too. You reach an average of 21 stacks, a bit more when using F1 on large numbers and Arcing Arrow in it (but you need to be close).

You can use Sigil of Strength on GS too, but then you’ll overstack. I prefer a Superior Sigil of Fire on it.

Note: Use only Superior Sigil of Strength and NOT Major, because it has a lower proc rate and (more important) shorter Mights.

Inevitable.8920:

Banners are useless? Congratulations……. You’re an idiot.

Ok, explain me how can you use a banner against a boss in a wide area like the Fire Shaman in grawl fractal.

PS: I didn’t explain it too well anyway, I meant useless in most hard situation aka high level Fractal bosses. If we are talking only about normal instances, then that’s a different story. Personally I think most of them are too easy to discuss about.

Oni Link.4621:

Inevitable.8920:

Banners are useless? Congratulations……. You’re an idiot.

Ok, explain me how can you use a banner against a boss in a wide area like the Fire Shaman in grawl fractal.

Well lucky for us, there’s a skill in the game called Wall of Reflection. Stand behind it with your group and put a banner down. Or just stand near the banner dodge and walk back towards the banner. It isn’t hard for any competent player to do.

Inevitable.8920:

Well lucky for us, there’s a skill in the game called Wall of Reflection. Stand behind it with your group and put a banner down. Or just stand near the banner dodge and walk back towards the banner. It isn’t hard for any competent player to do.

Try doing that at lvl 50 and have fun. You can not stay in the same place, especially because he casts AOEs and WoE will end soon or later. And you can not rely on other classes to fix your lacks.

Oni Link.4621:

Inevitable.8920:

Well lucky for us, there’s a skill in the game called Wall of Reflection. Stand behind it with your group and put a banner down. Or just stand near the banner dodge and walk back towards the banner. It isn’t hard for any competent player to do.

Try doing that at lvl 50 and have fun. You can not stay in the same place, especially because he casts AOEs and WoE will end soon or later. And you can not rely on other classes to fix your lacks.

I only run fractal 48. So anything I mention is 48.

Oni Link.4621:

Inevitable.8920:

Well lucky for us, there’s a skill in the game called Wall of Reflection. Stand behind it with your group and put a banner down. Or just stand near the banner dodge and walk back towards the banner. It isn’t hard for any competent player to do.

Try doing that at lvl 50 and have fun. You can not stay in the same place, especially because he casts AOEs and WoE will end soon or later. And you can not rely on other classes to fix your lacks.

Most of the people in my guild are level 48+, some in the 60s and beyond. We use Banners at the Legendary Imbued Shaman and they are effective.

Oni Link.4621:

@TheMaskedParadigm: Not really because I have permanently over 20 stack of Might without relying on others, that’s how I compensate for damage lack. Permanent Fury and Swiftness too.

@Dempsey: Banners are useless for boss fights because you have to keep moving around to dodge attacks, otherwise you are dead. Mace damage is low because it is very slow and weakness lasts only for 50% on bosses. Sword OH is absolutely not needed, single block and no damage output, shield is better if you need to parry.
If you move correctly and know how to dodge then you don’t need any block.
With your traits and weapons you deal no damage at all: slow and weak auto attacks and no Might stacking.

Banners are useless? I laughed so hard at the lack of knowledge you carry about the class you claim to know so much about. With a mace/sword set up like I suggested the OP would have absolutely no need to dodge at all since most boss attacks can be stopped by A SINGLE BLOCK. Shield is just a crutch and really its a worse parry in pve since most things can be stopped with a single block and it has a shorter CD.

The suggestion was for the OP so he could learn to play in full zerker.
I personally run axe/mace with 30/0/0/10/30 with full berserk gear. With FGJ/frenzy/Banner. But again the op did not ask about a full dps build he asked about viable support options, in which case shout heal is just sub-par.

Banner in grawl shaman? put it down have everyone stand near it then have your guardians and mesmer do a standard projectile reflection rotation, but I run in an organized group, a luxury most do not have. Even so that is only 1 boss in the entire game. Infact I cannot think of any banner where banners aren’t useful. WAIT i take that back, final boss in ta can’t be crit, so that makes discipline useless Str is still viable though.

I do lvl 48 almost everyday, that doesn’t change that shout heals are trivial and still far worse than just playing good and running full dps.

70% boon duration? wow, I only run 10% and my effective power with only 16 stacks of might that I can keep up myself is still 30%+ higher than yours, and my groups maintain 25 stacks at nearly every boss fight, so again your ability to keep 20 might alone is trivial in comparison.

But again OP asked for support options, gs is not support it is DPS orientated, using it in a support build is just bad. Stop listening to dontain.

Inevitable.8920:

I only run fractal 48. So anything I mention is 48.

48 is similar too with a little differnce: at 50+ only ONE arrow is enough to kill a player; not downing, but kill. 2-3 seconds of fire storm is more than enough to down even a tanky player so you can stand near the banner after the fire storm is casted.
So the only way to use a banner is picking it up and moving it. But if you do that, then you can’t attack.

• Dredge fractal? You keep moving from a lava bucket to another, so no banners.
• Hammer fractal? Full of AOEs, with Poison too, so you need SIO and/or SoS, otherwise even if you manage to reach the banner again, it will kill you.
• Harpy fractal? If you have a good kiter for the boss, then YES, the banner is awesome.
• Krait fractal? You keep kiting the Jellyfish around, no banners.
• Ascalon fractal? Again fire storms, even stronger than Shaman with even larger area; no banners.
• Swamp fractal? If you get the Bloomhunger then YES, banners are good. But if the boss is the Mossman then it becomes difficult, especially if your party like to kite him around; situational.
• Snow fractal? Good at elemental and at final boss too, the area is small so you can cover most of it.
• Jade sea fractal? You have to go around for tentacles so again no banners.

Results: 3 yes and 6 noes.
Most of bosses need movement and even if you try to stay close to your banner, your teammates will not risk that only for some Regeneration and a stat buff.

@Dempsey: If you noticed, I added a note:
“PS: I didn’t explain it too well anyway, I meant useless in most hard situation aka high level Fractal bosses. If we are talking only about normal instances, then that’s a different story. Personally I think most of them are too easy to discuss about.”
In other words: in common situation they are easy to use and obviously good, but common situation are overall easy (ArenaNet nerfed too much things in this game since launch).
I don’t know your guildmates by I saved SO MANY times the kitten to my mates that I can not imagine going in a party for a hard instance without having healing shouts to save them from death or to remove the condition that is going to kill them.

Oni Link.4621:

Inevitable.8920:

I only run fractal 48. So anything I mention is 48.

48 is similar too with a little differnce: at 50+ only ONE arrow is enough to kill a player; not downing, but kill. 2-3 seconds of fire storm is more than enough to down even a tanky player so you can stand near the banner after the fire storm is casted.
So the only way to use a banner is picking it up and moving it. But if you do that, then you can’t attack.

• Dredge fractal? You keep moving from a lava bucket to another, so no banners.
• Hammer fractal? Full of AOEs, with Poison too, so you need SIO and/or SoS, otherwise even if you manage to reach the banner again, it will kill you.
• Harpy fractal? If you have a good kiter for the boss, then YES, the banner is awesome.
• Krait fractal? You keep kiting the Jellyfish around, no banners.
• Ascalon fractal? Again fire storms, even stronger than Shaman with even larger area; no banners.
• Swamp fractal? If you get the Bloomhunger then YES, banners are good. But if the boss is the Mossman then it becomes difficult, especially if your party like to kite him around; situational.
• Snow fractal? Good at elemental and at final boss too, the area is small so you can cover most of it.
• Jade sea fractal? You have to go around for tentacles so again no banners.

Results: 3 yes and 6 noes.
Most of bosses need movement and even if you try to stay close to your banner, your teammates will not risk that only for some Regeneration and a stat buff.

*Grawl Fractal – Utilize Reflection, melee the boss. Avoid AoE and continue melee combat. Banner works.
*Dredge Fractal – Melee the boss and burst it down. Banner works.
*Colossus Fractal – Guardian handles condition removal. Banner works.
*Harpy Fractal – Melee the golems behind Wall of Reflect and Shield of the Avenger. Banner works.
*Krait Fractal – Melee the Jellyfish Beast, ignore the cages unless they are extremely close. Banner works.
*Ascalon Fractal – Dodge and stay in the radius of the Banner. Banner works.
*Swamp Fractal – Melee both bosses. Banner works.
Snowblind Fractal – Banner works, obviously enough.
*Jade Sea – I’ll give you that one.

Results: Banner is worth taking in every Fractal but Jade Sea.
Playing in an organized group allows you to make use of banners. Playing disorganized chaos is a different story. Banners works well for us.

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

*Grawl Fractal – Utilize Reflection, melee the boss. Avoid AoE and continue melee combat. Banner works.
*Dredge Fractal – Melee the boss and burst it down. Banner works.
*Colossus Fractal – Guardian handles condition removal. Banner works.
*Harpy Fractal – Melee the golems behind Wall of Reflect and Shield of the Avenger. Banner works.
*Krait Fractal – Melee the Jellyfish Beast, ignore the cages unless they are extremely close. Banner works.
*Ascalon Fractal – Dodge and stay in the radius of the Banner. Banner works.
*Swamp Fractal – Melee both bosses. Banner works.
Snowblind Fractal – Banner works, obviously enough.
*Jade Sea – I’ll give you that one.

Results: Banner is worth taking in every Fractal but Jade Sea.
Playing in an organized group allows you to make use of banners. Playing disorganized chaos is a different story. Banners works well for us.

Most of bosses move around and you can not be sure that boss and banners will stay in the same area so you can go melee. If you go ranged then you won’t be able to stay on the same place when an AOE will come.

• Dredge fractal: You have to move the banner around which means that you can’t attack the boss while moving the banner. I really can’t see it working there.
• Colossus fractal: A Guardian can’t handle all the conditions! You must avoid them, only an idiot would stay on the place and get hit by all AOEs under him.
• Grawl fractal: Forcing all team in the same area is risky, also because if you dodge the arrow it may hit the guy behind you.
• Swamp fractal: In my opinion (just guessing based on exprience) forcing the whole team in a small area vs Mossman will make it hard to dodge all Agony Axes because the reaction time must be very very small considering the small distance you are away from him if fighting ranged. If fighting melee then you’ll just get that in your face XD
• Ascalonian fractal: During Staff phase, his AOEs are so big that you must get out of the banner area and if you get near the banenr again, he will cast another storm there and you will have to leave again. You won’t use all the potential in that way.
• Krait fractal: Never seen a whole group going melee against this boss. Also, most of players can’t dodge the bite and its agony (me neither sometimes) which means instant downed state and a loss of DPS.
• Harpy fractal / Snow fractal / Jade sea fractal: We agree on these.

You are supposing that all members are meleeing bosses so even if you don’t have the aggro the boss won’t move. But you can pretend that, especially with PUG, even if organized.

Oni Link.4621:

Inevitable.8920:

I only run fractal 48. So anything I mention is 48.

48 is similar too with a little differnce: at 50+ only ONE arrow is enough to kill a player; not downing, but kill. 2-3 seconds of fire storm is more than enough to down even a tanky player so you can stand near the banner after the fire storm is casted.
So the only way to use a banner is picking it up and moving it. But if you do that, then you can’t attack.

• Dredge fractal? You keep moving from a lava bucket to another, so no banners.
• Hammer fractal? Full of AOEs, with Poison too, so you need SIO and/or SoS, otherwise even if you manage to reach the banner again, it will kill you.
• Harpy fractal? If you have a good kiter for the boss, then YES, the banner is awesome.
• Krait fractal? You keep kiting the Jellyfish around, no banners.
• Ascalon fractal? Again fire storms, even stronger than Shaman with even larger area; no banners.
• Swamp fractal? If you get the Bloomhunger then YES, banners are good. But if the boss is the Mossman then it becomes difficult, especially if your party like to kite him around; situational.
• Snow fractal? Good at elemental and at final boss too, the area is small so you can cover most of it.
• Jade sea fractal? You have to go around for tentacles so again no banners.

Results: 3 yes and 6 noes.
Most of bosses need movement and even if you try to stay close to your banner, your teammates will not risk that only for some Regeneration and a stat buff.

If the OP if asking about shout heals i doubt that his fractal level is incredibly high meaning that he is doing the base dungeons and in all of them banners are very useful.
The regen from the banner is just as useless as the heal from shouts I agree. But, it is a better option. That stat buff is actually a huge DPS buff to the party. If i remember correctly str banner is an 8% damage increase and discipline is 15% I believe. then add that to 4 other people in the group. 115% damage increase to the group? must suck.

Also @ op in tactics take banner cd and Empower allies with banner regen. not shout CD Empower allies would be around another 8% damage increase for the group.

Brazil already answered your fractal questions,

Dempsey.8760:

If the OP if asking about shout heals i doubt that his fractal level is incredibly high meaning that he is doing the base dungeons and in all of them banners are very useful.
The regen from the banner is just as useless as the heal from shouts I agree. But, it is a better option. That stat buff is actually a huge DPS buff to the party. If i remember correctly str banner is an 8% damage increase and discipline is 15% I believe. then add that to 4 other people in the group. 115% damage increase to the group? must suck.

Also @ op in tactics take banner cd and Empower allies with banner regen. not shout CD Empower allies would be around another 8% damage increase for the group.

2 shouts HPS is the same a base Regeneration, the difference is that you are not forced in one place and that shouts can be used as a small burst of heal.
Damage speaking banners are value based, not percentage based.
Strength banner gives 170 Power which MAY be a 8% damage increase.
Discipline gives around 9% critical rate and 15% critical damage (15% CD is not 15% more damage, because not everyone will crit on all attacks).
And your math is wrong: 8% more damage AOE means that party DPS is increased by 8%, not 64%, that’s absurd. Your 115% with Discipline is absurd too. Even if everybody reaches 100% critical rate, they will have a boost of 15% more damage, not 75%.

If you laughed at my knowledge of the class then I laugh at your knowledge of game mechanics and maths. I don’t want to insult you, but it’s not a big idea to insult someone and then fail on basic calculations.

Oni Link.4621:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

*Grawl Fractal – Utilize Reflection, melee the boss. Avoid AoE and continue melee combat. Banner works.
*Dredge Fractal – Melee the boss and burst it down. Banner works.
*Colossus Fractal – Guardian handles condition removal. Banner works.
*Harpy Fractal – Melee the golems behind Wall of Reflect and Shield of the Avenger. Banner works.
*Krait Fractal – Melee the Jellyfish Beast, ignore the cages unless they are extremely close. Banner works.
*Ascalon Fractal – Dodge and stay in the radius of the Banner. Banner works.
*Swamp Fractal – Melee both bosses. Banner works.
Snowblind Fractal – Banner works, obviously enough.
*Jade Sea – I’ll give you that one.

Results: Banner is worth taking in every Fractal but Jade Sea.
Playing in an organized group allows you to make use of banners. Playing disorganized chaos is a different story. Banners works well for us.

Most of bosses move around and you can not be sure that boss and banners will stay in the same area so you can go melee. If you go ranged then you won’t be able to stay on the same place when an AOE will come.

• Dredge fractal: You have to move the banner around which means that you can’t attack the boss while moving the banner. I really can’t see it working there.
• Colossus fractal: A Guardian can’t handle all the conditions! You must avoid them, only an idiot would stay on the place and get hit by all AOEs under him.
• Grawl fractal: Forcing all team in the same area is risky, also because if you dodge the arrow it may hit the guy behind you.
• Swamp fractal: In my opinion (just guessing based on exprience) forcing the whole team in a small area vs Mossman will make it hard to dodge all Agony Axes because the reaction time must be very very small considering the small distance you are away from him if fighting ranged. If fighting melee then you’ll just get that in your face XD
• Ascalonian fractal: During Staff phase, his AOEs are so big that you must get out of the banner area and if you get near the banenr again, he will cast another storm there and you will have to leave again. You won’t use all the potential in that way.
• Krait fractal: Never seen a whole group going melee against this boss. Also, most of players can’t dodge the bite and its agony (me neither sometimes) which means instant downed state and a loss of DPS.
• Harpy fractal / Snow fractal / Jade sea fractal: We agree on these.

You are supposing that all members are meleeing bosses so even if you don’t have the aggro the boss won’t move. But you can pretend that, especially with PUG, even if organized.

Dredge Fractal – Melee between 2 buckets, carry the banners a short distance.
Colossus Fractal – Multiple Guardians, usually 2. You have plenty of room to maneuver and not get hit.
Grawl Fractal – Arrow is negated by reflection.
Swamp Fractal – Reflection for the axe throw.
Ascalon Fractal – Banner radius is sufficient.
Krait Fractal – It’s common with us. Guardians interrupt his agony attack with Trident.

No, I’m not supposing anything. The solution is not to pug.

Oni Link.4621:

Dempsey.8760:

If the OP if asking about shout heals i doubt that his fractal level is incredibly high meaning that he is doing the base dungeons and in all of them banners are very useful.
The regen from the banner is just as useless as the heal from shouts I agree. But, it is a better option. That stat buff is actually a huge DPS buff to the party. If i remember correctly str banner is an 8% damage increase and discipline is 15% I believe. then add that to 4 other people in the group. 115% damage increase to the group? must suck.

Also @ op in tactics take banner cd and Empower allies with banner regen. not shout CD Empower allies would be around another 8% damage increase for the group.

2 shouts HPS is the same a base Regeneration, the difference is that you are not forced in one place and that shouts can be used as a small burst of heal.
Damage speaking banners are value based, not percentage based.
Strength banner gives 170 Power which MAY be a 8% damage increase.
Discipline gives around 9% critical rate and 15% critical damage (15% CD is not 15% more damage, because not everyone will crit on all attacks).
And your math is wrong: 8% more damage AOE means that party DPS is increased by 8%, not 64%, that’s absurd. Your 115% with Discipline is absurd too. Even if everybody reaches 100% critical rate, they will have a boost of 15% more damage, not 75%.

its an average increase of damage over a period of time (1 min iirc) reduced into % based and its 115% damage increase while the entire group is effected by it. only about 23% per individual person. But dungeons are group based events I thought I would just add it up for you. I don’t believe I ever claimed that 1 single banner increased someones damage 115%. “Then add that to 4 other people in the group”
Nope I didn’t.
Either way shout heals are terrible, banners don’t suck and running lvl 50 fractals for no daily rewards is just lawlzy. I suppose you’re another person who doesn’t believe bloomhunger can’t be killed completely in melee.

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Dredge Fractal – Melee between 2 buckets, carry the banners a short distance.
Colossus Fractal – Multiple Guardians, usually 2. You have plenty of room to maneuver and not get hit.
Grawl Fractal – Arrow is negated by reflection.
Swamp Fractal – Reflection for the axe throw.
Ascalon Fractal – Banner radius is sufficient.
Krait Fractal – It’s common with us. Guardians interrupt his agony attack with Trident.

No, I’m not supposing anything. The solution is not to pug.

• Dredge fractal: Still a waste of time, it’s better to DPS the boss in my honest opinion. And if your party prefer the complete circle (because with complete circle if someone is downed, there is a chance that he’ll be able to self ress, rarely happened by the way) then you can’t do that.
• Colossus fractal: Again you are assuming something: you must have two guardians. Why force a team composition only for a banner? You can just dodge those AOEs, don’t need someone to care conditions for you only because you want to stick to a place.
• Grawl fractal: Again assuming that WoE is up which can’t be forever and still doesn’t block AOEs.
• Swamp fractal: Please stop assuming you have WoE or Feedback always up. If the Guardian/Mesmer goes downed then what?
• Ascalon fractal: Hmm… Need to test that, maybe you’re right.
• Krait fractal: Can’t say anything about it, any group I played with just kited it to cages.

I completed successfully Fractal lvl 58 with PUGs. So the solution is not “not to PUG”. Simply you must be versatile and be able to play with any composition. Having a build that works only with some compositions is not a good idea in my opinion.

Dempsey.8760:

its an average increase of damage over a period of time (1 min iirc) reduced into % based and its 115% damage increase while the entire group is effected by it. only about 23% per individual person. But dungeons are group based events I thought I would just add it up for you. I don’t believe I ever claimed that 1 single banner increased someones damage 115%.

You didn’t understand, again:
Let’s suppose that everyone hits for 1.000 damage. A total hit from all members will result in 5.000 damage to the boss, ok?
If you increase the party damage by 50%, then everyon will hit for 1.500 and total will be 7.500.
So if the single member increase is 50%, then the whole increase is still 50%.

You wrote 115% and that’s wrong.

Oni Link.4621:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Dredge Fractal – Melee between 2 buckets, carry the banners a short distance.
Colossus Fractal – Multiple Guardians, usually 2. You have plenty of room to maneuver and not get hit.
Grawl Fractal – Arrow is negated by reflection.
Swamp Fractal – Reflection for the axe throw.
Ascalon Fractal – Banner radius is sufficient.
Krait Fractal – It’s common with us. Guardians interrupt his agony attack with Trident.

No, I’m not supposing anything. The solution is not to pug.

• Dredge fractal: Still a waste of time, it’s better to DPS the boss in my honest opinion. And if your party prefer the complete circle (because with complete circle if someone is downed, there is a chance that he’ll be able to self ress, rarely happened by the way) then you can’t do that.
• Colossus fractal: Again you are assuming something: you must have two guardians. Why force a team composition only for a banner? You can just dodge those AOEs, don’t need someone to care conditions for you only because you want to stick to a place.
• Grawl fractal: Again assuming that WoE is up which can’t be forever and still doesn’t block AOEs.
• Swamp fractal: Please stop assuming you have WoE or Feedback always up. If the Guardian/Mesmer goes downed then what?
• Ascalon fractal: Hmm… Need to test that, maybe you’re right.
• Krait fractal: Can’t say anything about it, any group I played with just kited it to cages.

I completed successfully Fractal lvl 58 with PUGs. So the solution is not “not to PUG”. Simply you must be versatile and be able to play with any composition. Having a build that works only with some compositions is not a good idea in my opinion.

I know people that have pugged 60+ and people that have taken organized groups to 80. Playing with pugs will result in more headaches than playing with organized groups of people that know what they are doing. I’ve pugged 50+ and done organized runs in 50+ as well. Pugging is always worse.

Oni Link.4621:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Dredge Fractal – Melee between 2 buckets, carry the banners a short distance.
Colossus Fractal – Multiple Guardians, usually 2. You have plenty of room to maneuver and not get hit.
Grawl Fractal – Arrow is negated by reflection.
Swamp Fractal – Reflection for the axe throw.
Ascalon Fractal – Banner radius is sufficient.
Krait Fractal – It’s common with us. Guardians interrupt his agony attack with Trident.

No, I’m not supposing anything. The solution is not to pug.

• Dredge fractal: Still a waste of time, it’s better to DPS the boss in my honest opinion. And if your party prefer the complete circle (because with complete circle if someone is downed, there is a chance that he’ll be able to self ress, rarely happened by the way) then you can’t do that.
• Colossus fractal: Again you are assuming something: you must have two guardians. Why force a team composition only for a banner? You can just dodge those AOEs, don’t need someone to care conditions for you only because you want to stick to a place.
• Grawl fractal: Again assuming that WoE is up which can’t be forever and still doesn’t block AOEs.
• Swamp fractal: Please stop assuming you have WoE or Feedback always up. If the Guardian/Mesmer goes downed then what?
• Ascalon fractal: Hmm… Need to test that, maybe you’re right.
• Krait fractal: Can’t say anything about it, any group I played with just kited it to cages.

I completed successfully Fractal lvl 58 with PUGs. So the solution is not “not to PUG”. Simply you must be versatile and be able to play with any composition. Having a build that works only with some compositions is not a good idea in my opinion.

Dredge- Put bebuff on run up drop banners TW full melee DPS, there boss is at 25% now, do it again, trivial, even if you don’t get your banners the second go there still greatly helped shorten the fight.

Colossus- yep 2 guards 2 wars 1 mes, we don’t force team comp just for banner we force team comp because meleeing everything is just plain faster and the guards and mesmer are there for agies and projectile protection mob pulls and TW.

Grawl- between 2 spirit shield 1 feedback and 2 walls protectile protection is always up, simple dodge or block the single aoe, and move out of the way for lave fonts. Simple.

Swamp, well they shouldn’t go down at all. Because the skills they use provide the protection needed to live….

Ascalon- no need for you to test it since you wouldn’t know how, we have, it works.

Krait- kiting, lol.

Your build does not bring projectile reflection, your build is not versatile as you claim.
At least iirc gs and lb don’t have any, lol.
30/0/0/10/30 works with all team comps, if i am forced to pug (not likely), and the other 4 people die then I just finish the fight alone.

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

I know people that have pugged 60+ and people that have taken organized groups to 80. Playing with pugs will result in more headaches than playing with organized groups of people that know what they are doing. I’ve pugged 50+ and done organized runs in 50+ as well. Pugging is always worse.

That’s obvious ^^ But saying “I do not want to PUG because I want to play like that” and “I play like that because I do not want to PUG” is a waste.
Let me explain: why playing a global MMO if you want to play only with your friends?
It seems a waste to me :/ You won’t met new people, who may teach you something new or may just be good enough to let you say “kitten ! This Doesn’t seem a PUG, it’s like being organized!”.

This is exactly what happened to me, when I met a Warrior with fractal lvl 81 who suggested me to use Sonic Boon with some tweaks (because triple shout and rifle are a waste for Fractal purposes). He also taught me a lot of tricks with some consumable items (which were blocked some patches ago, kitten ArenaNet >.<). Great player. He was with a PUG be he never complained about our fails. He told us about our mistakes, told us how to fix them and taught us new things about Fractal.

Result? We can go with PUG without problem even over 50. So we can met new people Forcing yourself to play only with friends is really a waste.
And what if they are offline? No Fractal then? Another waste :/

@Dempsey: Being arrogant won’t bring you far. And saying
“Ascalon- no need for you to test it since you wouldn’t know how, we have, it works.”
when you can’t even calculate a banal thing is so funny XD

And saying “2 guards 2 wars 1 mes” IS forcing a team composition. Did I ever mention a team composition? No.

TheMaskedParadigm is explaining his point of view, no arrogance in his words.

Oni Link.4621:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

I know people that have pugged 60+ and people that have taken organized groups to 80. Playing with pugs will result in more headaches than playing with organized groups of people that know what they are doing. I’ve pugged 50+ and done organized runs in 50+ as well. Pugging is always worse.

That’s obvious ^^ But saying “I do not want to PUG because I want to play like that” and “I play like that because I do not want to PUG” is a waste.
Let me explain: why playing a global MMO if you want to play only with your friends?
It seems a waste to me :/ You won’t met new people, who may teach you something new or may just be good enough to let you say “kitten ! This Doesn’t seem a PUG, it’s like being organized!”.

This is exactly what happened to me, when I met a Warrior with fractal lvl 81 who suggested me to use Sonic Boon with some tweaks (because triple shout and rifle are a waste for Fractal purposes). He also taught me a lot of tricks with some consumable items (which were blocked some patches ago, kitten ArenaNet >.<). Great player. He was with a PUG be he never complained about our fails. He told us about our mistakes, told us how to fix them and taught us new things about Fractal.

Result? We can go with PUG without problem even over 50. So we can met new people Forcing yourself to play only with friends is really a waste.
And what if they are offline? No Fractal then? Another waste :/

The friends that I’ve made in Guild Wars are because of the guild that I’ve joined. Fortunately, I don’t need to learn much from Shout Heal Warrior pugs and Longbow Rangers that tell me I’m a noob for using melee weapons. Fortunately, the group of people I play with are quite skilled when it comes to dungeons so I never have to throw my self into a pug group and hope that they turn out to be good.

And if you honestly think that doing Fractals is not a waste of time, something is wrong. You don’t get a reward chest from 50+ since you can’t fight Jade Maw, and Fractal loot has consistently and frequently been nerfed into the ground to the point where it’s not worth doing. If a Warrior honestly thought that taking a Sonic Boon build into Fractal levels that high, he doesn’t know what he was doing. The only option worth taking at that point is a pure DPS build, because survivability won’t do a thing for you.

I don’t need pug enlightenment when the group of people I play with know what they are doing and understand the game.

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

The friends that I’ve made in Guild Wars are because of the guild that I’ve joined. Fortunately, I don’t need to learn much from Shout Heal Warrior pugs and Longbow Rangers that tell me I’m a noob for using melee weapons. Fortunately, the group of people I play with are quite skilled when it comes to dungeons so I never have to throw my self into a pug group and hope that they turn out to be good.

And if you honestly think that doing Fractals is not a waste of time, something is wrong. You don’t get a reward chest from 50+ since you can’t fight Jade Maw, and Fractal loot has consistently and frequently been nerfed into the ground to the point where it’s not worth doing. If a Warrior honestly thought that taking a Sonic Boon build into Fractal levels that high, he doesn’t know what he was doing. The only option worth taking at that point is a pure DPS build, because survivability won’t do a thing for you.

I don’t need pug enlightenment when the group of people I play with know what they are doing and understand the game.

I never said “not doing Fractals is a waste”, you misunderstood. I wanted to say “wanting to do Fractals but refusing to go with a PUG and not going because your friends are offline” is a waste.
And by the way the meeting I had was just an example, obviously is not something that happnes everyday XD
Anyway it should be interesting to meet someone that says you are a noob for not using melee weapons, never happened before O.o

If you remember my posts I never claimed my build is better or that it is the only way to do it. The OP asked for a Shout Healing build, I talked about it. Then the topic switched to banners and I explained why banners are not so “godlike” as you are saying. I was the first to change my build from shouts to banners but ended choosing shouts again for their mobility.
We can discuss for years, but we both know that in the end everyone will keep using his own build. Different scenarios, different builds.
I feel fine with my build, I keep having the aggro regardless of the boss which may or may not be a sign of its effectiveness. Anyway I like my sustain, my party like the sustain I give them because many times it saves them, especially on low HP pool classes.
De gustibus! ^^

Oni Link.4621:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

The friends that I’ve made in Guild Wars are because of the guild that I’ve joined. Fortunately, I don’t need to learn much from Shout Heal Warrior pugs and Longbow Rangers that tell me I’m a noob for using melee weapons. Fortunately, the group of people I play with are quite skilled when it comes to dungeons so I never have to throw my self into a pug group and hope that they turn out to be good.

And if you honestly think that doing Fractals is not a waste of time, something is wrong. You don’t get a reward chest from 50+ since you can’t fight Jade Maw, and Fractal loot has consistently and frequently been nerfed into the ground to the point where it’s not worth doing. If a Warrior honestly thought that taking a Sonic Boon build into Fractal levels that high, he doesn’t know what he was doing. The only option worth taking at that point is a pure DPS build, because survivability won’t do a thing for you.

I don’t need pug enlightenment when the group of people I play with know what they are doing and understand the game.

I never said “not doing Fractals is a waste”, you misunderstood. I wanted to say “wanting to do Fractals but refusing to go with a PUG and not going because your friends are offline” is a waste.
And by the way the meeting I had was just an example, obviously is not something that happnes everyday XD
Anyway it should be interesting to meet someone that says you are a noob for not using melee weapons, never happened before O.o

If you remember my posts I never claimed my build is better or that it is the only way to do it. The OP asked for a Shout Healing build, I talked about it. Then the topic switched to banners and I explained why banners are not so “godlike” as you are saying. I was the first to change my build from shouts to banners but ended choosing shouts again for their mobility.
We can discuss for years, but we both know that in the end everyone will keep using his own build. Different scenarios, different builds.
I feel fine with my build, I keep having the aggro regardless of the boss which may or may not be a sign of its effectiveness. Anyway I like my sustain, my party like the sustain I give them because many times it saves them, especially on low HP pool classes.
De gustibus! ^^

He didn’t ask for a shout build, he asked if it was viable, worth it, and what the healing would be like. The healing is negligible and not worth wasting trait points, it won’t save you from poor playing, and I can’t find any reason that it would be considered viable. You can call it a matter of taste, but shout builds are simply inferior.

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

He didn’t ask for a shout build, he asked if it was viable, worth it, and what the healing would be like. The healing is negligible and not worth wasting trait points, it won’t save you from poor playing, and I can’t find any reason that it would be considered viable. You can call it a matter of taste, but shout builds are simply inferior.

Mah, maybe, still not sure. The problem is that damage reduction doesn’t scale linearly as damage (double Toughness does not mean half damage). That’s why offensive builds are overall better than defensive builds. But still, going full damage with a selfish build is god kitten boring… you deal damage and nothing else :/ It may be the best role for a Warrior but sooooo boring…
I’ll try a full DPS build at Fractal and see results.

Oni Link.4621:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

He didn’t ask for a shout build, he asked if it was viable, worth it, and what the healing would be like. The healing is negligible and not worth wasting trait points, it won’t save you from poor playing, and I can’t find any reason that it would be considered viable. You can call it a matter of taste, but shout builds are simply inferior.

Mah, maybe, still not sure. The problem is that damage reduction doesn’t scale linearly as damage (double Toughness does not mean half damage). That’s why offensive builds are overall better than defensive builds. But still, going full damage with a selfish build is god kitten boring… you deal damage and nothing else :/ It may be the best role for a Warrior but sooooo boring…
I’ll try a full DPS build at Fractal and see results.

Empower Allies, Banners, Mace knockdown, Cripple, Vulnerability, Fury and Might. A build like 30/0/0/10/30 isn’t selfish. It provides the highest possible DPS for a Warrior, group DPS buffs, and a very useful knockdown. I don’t particularly enjoy playing Warrior, but I find it more fun than trying to be a poorly designed Guardian ripoff.

Oni Link.4621:

@Dempsey: Being arrogant won’t bring you far. And saying
“Ascalon- no need for you to test it since you wouldn’t know how, we have, it works.”
when you can’t even calculate a banal thing is so funny XD

And saying “2 guards 2 wars 1 mes” IS forcing a team composition. Did I ever mention a team composition? No.

TheMaskedParadigm is explaining his point of view, no arrogance in his words.

Your use of the word banal is incorrect.
Also I never calculated anything, if you re-read anything I said I always qualified my statements with “if i remember correctly” and other such statements to that effect, because the information I provided is from other people who have taken the time to calculate it. I do not need to calculate it because common sense would dictate that a banner providing party wide buffs would offer more damage than the crutches you use (SoS/shout heals)

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Oni Link.4621:

First of all: are we talking about PVP, PVE or WVW?

• PVP: Not worth. If you want to be a bunker-shouthealer go for Guardian
• WVW: I’m a newbie in that field.
• PVE: Absolutely worth. I’m currently running a build inspired by the “famous” Sonic Boon. I can share it if you want but it is 0-25-15-30-0 with 2 shouts (FGJ and SIO) and SoS for more dodges, HS as healing skill. Berserker jewelry and weapons (GS and LB) and Knight armor. You deal a high amount of damage while being a bit tanky with good AOE support (average 130 AOE HPS plus Might and Fury) and good self-sustain (average 660 HPS).

You actually deal very low damage while prolonging boss fights, letting them beat your team up even longer.

Your reasoning is incorrect. Long boss fights don’t kill people.

Is there any other build for WvW than the shout heal?

Yaki.9563:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Oni Link.4621:

First of all: are we talking about PVP, PVE or WVW?

• PVP: Not worth. If you want to be a bunker-shouthealer go for Guardian
• WVW: I’m a newbie in that field.
• PVE: Absolutely worth. I’m currently running a build inspired by the “famous” Sonic Boon. I can share it if you want but it is 0-25-15-30-0 with 2 shouts (FGJ and SIO) and SoS for more dodges, HS as healing skill. Berserker jewelry and weapons (GS and LB) and Knight armor. You deal a high amount of damage while being a bit tanky with good AOE support (average 130 AOE HPS plus Might and Fury) and good self-sustain (average 660 HPS).

You actually deal very low damage while prolonging boss fights, letting them beat your team up even longer.

Your reasoning is incorrect. Long boss fights don’t kill people.

Longer fights lead to more opportunity for error and gives the boss more opportunities to attack. My reasoning is not incorrect, and I don’t believe I said that “long boss fights kill people.” Bosses kill people due to someone playing poorly, and the more opportunities the boss has to attack, the more you are enabling it to kill you. There is no need to prolong boss fights by wearing survivability gear, the best option is to buy Berserker’s gear and increase your skill level in order to avoid damage.

I am still surprised by how many people actually do dungeons. Then I am even more surprised by how many people actually do them over and over again. For the life of me, I cannot see how that is fun. I am just a weirdo.

Ljiona.9142:

I am still surprised by how many people actually do dungeons. Then I am even more surprised by how many people actually do them over and over again. For the life of me, I cannot see how that is fun. I am just a weirdo.

We like making money and having cool stuff. We also enjoy being good at the game and killing things faster than the vast majority of players.

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Ljiona.9142:

I am still surprised by how many people actually do dungeons. Then I am even more surprised by how many people actually do them over and over again. For the life of me, I cannot see how that is fun. I am just a weirdo.

We like making money and having cool stuff. We also enjoy being good at the game and killing things faster than the vast majority of players.

Yep, I am a weirdo because I really don’t care about those things. I like being the under dressed scrub that kills you with all your shiny gear. Now that is fun.

Ljiona.9142:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Ljiona.9142:

I am still surprised by how many people actually do dungeons. Then I am even more surprised by how many people actually do them over and over again. For the life of me, I cannot see how that is fun. I am just a weirdo.

We like making money and having cool stuff. We also enjoy being good at the game and killing things faster than the vast majority of players.

Yep, I am a weirdo because I really don’t care about those things. I like being the under dressed scrub that kills you with all your shiny gear. Now that is fun.

It’s only fun if you get the opportunity to achieve a goal like that, and that opportunity is sparse.

so the topic ended up talking about how agony one shot people at 50
what does this have to do with shout heal build, not to mention you can just go full zerker at 48 with no problem…i mean if make the dungeon longer is your thing, sure…

Lighter.5631:

so the topic ended up talking about how agony one shot people at 50
what does this have to do with shout heal build, not to mention you can just go full zerker at 48 with no problem…i mean if make the dungeon longer is your thing, sure…

It’s not only Agony that does that. Mobs get to the point where they one-shot you even if you stack loads of Toughness and Vitality. You can really only rely on doing damage and making use of Blinds or Stuns while LoSing.

Lighter.5631:

so the topic ended up talking about how agony one shot people at 50
what does this have to do with shout heal build, not to mention you can just go full zerker at 48 with no problem…i mean if make the dungeon longer is your thing, sure…

When vets hit for 20k per auto, agony doesn’t matter.

wow this turned into a fotm thread, highest ive done is 38 with shout heals, at which point spec really didnt seem to matter anymore, might as well just go zerker if everythings starting to 1 shot you.

protip for shout heals vs banners you can switch between the two on the fly without retraiting, start of dungeons, between bosses etc.