Guild Wars 2

This is me fixing what you did wrong.

Frenzy:
-Just remove the debuff entirely and keep it at 50%.
or
-Allow us to trait for 100% with 25% dmg taken
*Talk: Listen, no one is going to take a trait that makes them take 50% more damage without dishing more than 50% damage. Frenzy was an already easily countered mechanic(1 stunbreaker), it was never really an issue for anyone who wasn’t pure offense. Its a big issue that has caused many of us to just quit because there wasn’t even a reason for the nerf us, we were already on the lowest tier to begin with. Its the exact opposite of what this game needs.

Well to be fair to Anet they weren’t directly nerfing PvP warriors, it was just kind of a by-product of everyone getting nerfed.

That being said they did goof when they kept the 50% increased damage taken on our now awful skill, which I’m guessing will be fixed now that they hopefully see how it’s ruined PvP warriors.

So I’m not disagreeing with you, just wanted to point out it wasn’t a “warrior nerf” is all, we just took the brunt of it :P

Well, if you think about it, quickness was mainly used by warriors, and i don’t just mean sPvP, but also CoF P1 Farm which was mainly done by warriors who took advantage high DPS and TW to finish up bosses in a few seconds, which no other class can.. so indirectly this was a nerf to warriors and more specifically, a nerf to CoF p1 farm

Quickness was used quite a lot on my engineer, and also on my thief. I hear rangers get it to but I’ve never really noticed, since all the ones I’ve seen just hang back and spam 2.

If I were to make a bet I would say that a buff for warriors would be in the near future, considering many points of this change seem to be an oversight to warriors. They are, after all, the only class where the haste mechanic is now useless since your enemies will do equal amounts of damage right back.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Quickness was used quite a lot on my engineer, and also on my thief. I hear rangers get it to but I’ve never really noticed, since all the ones I’ve seen just hang back and spam 2.

If I were to make a bet I would say that a buff for warriors would be in the near future, considering many points of this change seem to be an oversight to warriors. They are, after all, the only class where the haste mechanic is now useless since your enemies will do equal amounts of damage right back.

Actually this is a common mistake. 50% speed =/= 50% more damage.
-Not to mention any other hit is pretty much an auto-crit

Well then, this was a serious side-effect nerf specifically to Warriors even though it was meant to be an across-the-board haste nerf, and I’m surprised Anet did not see (or just ignored) this.

Quickness was always more effective on Warriors than other professions because of class mechanics. While Rangers can consistently attack at range, Warriors have smaller windows to attack and must compress their damage. The larger availability of stuns also go well with this compression compared to haste on a Thief.

That said, Warriors also have the greatest negative effect. You don’t usually pop haste to heal; you pop it when there’s an opportunity to spike, and this negative effect is much less and calculable if the heal was already used. Also, dodging is not often used while hasted. And after the haste, Thieves have additional class mechanics (stealth and shadowsteps) for survivability. Warriors, however, have no additional mechanic but a flat-out +50% damage taken with an already inadequate self-heal.

To top it all off, even after Frenzy was nerfed, you still take the negative effect at full strength with no compensation. 1 additional second may be more detrimental than helpful; it is like .5 seconds of pre-nerf Frenzy damage added, which is little. This is not GW1 and Frenzy cannot be cancel-stanced, you are exposed to being focused 1 more second under +50% damage taken.

This is absolute overkill, Anet. Please wake up.

I just find it amazing that they chose now, 7 months after release, to finally admit that quickness was a problem. People have been complaining about it in almost every sense and/or aspect it was granted so much that they were getting carpal tunnel and calloused fingertips. They all eventually shut up about it and now Anet makes a move. Finally!! Where have you been?!

Also, not only did they decrease quickness to 50% without addressing the fact that warriors still take the heftiest penalty ever placed on a skill in the game, they increased the duration by 1 second. You know, I don’t think I want to take 50% more damage for 1 more second. Thanks, but no.

I definitely do think they need to look at the penalty of Frenzy – I agree that quickness was a bit overpowered, but considering the penalty placed on Frenzy, it barely made it worth it. To work Frenzy you had to build around it – stack yourself with a bunch of stuns/knockdowns so a single target wouldn’t be able to stomp your face when you frenzied, or take up multiple utility slots just to survive using it.

Compared to every single other quickness in the game it’s not remotely balanced, and now the benefit is halved… this has now been nerfed to a useless state. Why the heck would you use it over any other move that gives just pure bonuses that would increase your killing power almost as much without the penalty? Even if the damage taken were halved (so 25%), it would still be a debate and a heavier penalty than any other Quickness option in the game. It would at least place it on the ‘debatable’ list again.

Personally I would like to see the penalty change – something like after the Frenzy, you’re hit with Weakness and Cripple for 10s (the concept of being fatigued after a frenzy). The warrior is more limited on condition removal, so still a solid penalty without being brokenly heavy. It also adds a level of uniqueness of having the penalty after rather than during the frenzy like the other classes.

Drawing Guy, it probably won’t see a change in functionality. It was like that in GW1, but even heavier: 100% damage taken, for only a 33% attack speed increase. It was not uncommon to see Warriors instantly explode if not used properly.

That’s not to say it wasn’t balanced. Obviously, no one would have taken it if Warriors had the same lack of survivability as they do in GW2.

Yes, they not only need to look at the Warrior’s survivability, but now also rebalancing the skill Frenzy to reflect the changes they did across the board.

Bushido.2184:

Drawing Guy, it probably won’t see a change in functionality. It was like that in GW1, but even heavier: 100% damage taken, for only a 33% attack speed increase. It was not uncommon to see Warriors instantly explode if not used properly.

That’s not to say it wasn’t balanced. Obviously, no one would have taken it if Warriors had the same lack of survivability as they do in GW2.

Yes, they not only need to look at the Warrior’s survivability, but now also rebalancing the skill Frenzy to reflect the changes they did across the board.

The difference being that frenzy had what, a 5 sec CD in gw1? It could also be canceled at anytime with the use of another stance, so your really comparing apples to oranges here. This isn’t GW1 (sadly) so they need to balance around this games mechanics, not omit balance for references.

It’s true the game mechanics are totally different. GW2 is more focused on damage mitigation or avoiding it entirely, and healing for when you are already losing. That just does not go well with the core of how the Warrior plays, having to go up and rely on toughness to soak up damage without other means of mitigation. I believe that’s one of the main problems.

And without better damage mitigation, the current Frenzy (and the Warrior’s overall low power curve) is just too much.

It’s entirely possible that 50% inc damage taken with a 50% inc attack speed buff is too much negative to counter the positive. However, to insinuate that it completely isn’t worth it now because it’s assumed that the opponent will be able to attack the Warrior back for the full duration (and, as someone pointed out, that’s faulty math anyway) is irrational insanity.

It’ll probably be tweaked, but for the love of logic, take 3 seconds to think about when the skill is used.

They also forgot to increase the trait last chance and the sigil of rage by 1 second each to compensate like they did with the activated abilities. Also last chance should no longer have a 90 second cool down as its now half as powerful; somewhere between forty five and sixty is appropriate.

No ArenaNet ,could make me quit warrior berserker gear as it is.I used to combine lots of skills,but frenzy was definitely my favourite,i even used to use frenzy for mining !!!
Now maybe its time to reroll another class!Till they wake up and realise their mistake!
Just leave the frenzy as it is..50% more dmg for 100% speed No problem…50%quickness-50% dmg taken?? crap.

I see warriors dmg being nerfed in EACH PATCH since octomber,and i was like OK i can do this still!!!! But now they done it…

No,i am not a noob!On the beggining ArenaNet said: You can play 1 class in lots of ways.This is the build and mechanic i wanted,now its gone…….

Cogbyrn.7283:

It’s entirely possible that 50% inc damage taken with a 50% inc attack speed buff is too much negative to counter the positive. However, to insinuate that it completely isn’t worth it now because it’s assumed that the opponent will be able to attack the Warrior back for the full duration (and, as someone pointed out, that’s faulty math anyway) is irrational insanity.

It’ll probably be tweaked, but for the love of logic, take 3 seconds to think about when the skill is used.

Let me just fill you in, warrior doesn’t have a whole lot of anti-cc. Stunbreaker + cripple/slow or immobilize will counter the entire Bulls rush combo.

That being said, 50% quickness is NEVER going to be worth 50% damage taken, on any class at any time.

Why? Because that requires for me to be in a 1v1 situation, him have no stunbreakers or even just protection, teleport, any manner of escape utilities, or kiting abilities.
———————————

It was an already easily countered skill(reason warriors were on the lowest tier), but now its easily countered AND does 50% less damage in that small window. Worth it? Not really.

Empiren.6401:

50% less damage in that small window.

50% less in that timeframe is (was) your normal attack speed.
Try 25%.

i would be so happy if they give us a trait that add 25% attack speed with melee weapon

then i would mind less about that 50% speed 50% damage taken frenzy

Lighter.5631:

i would be so happy if they give us a trait that add 25% attack speed with melee weapon

then i would mind less about that 50% speed 50% damage taken frenzy

Yeah our melee damage is so heavily skill dependent its kind of sad. I believe we are on par with thief for auto attacks as a whole.

Cogbyrn.7283:

It’s entirely possible that 50% inc damage taken with a 50% inc attack speed buff is too much negative to counter the positive. However, to insinuate that it completely isn’t worth it now because it’s assumed that the opponent will be able to attack the Warrior back for the full duration (and, as someone pointed out, that’s faulty math anyway) is irrational insanity.

It’ll probably be tweaked, but for the love of logic, take 3 seconds to think about when the skill is used.

While that’s true, there is also more situations than that. You are only accounting for 1v1 situations, which isn’t the case all the time. What about situations where its 1v2? or 2v2? Basically any situation where damage could be coming from multiple sources. You could still use frenzy in those situations and come out with a positive/even exchange in terms of +damage dealt/taken.

New frenzy is ALWAYS a negative exchange in terms of +damage dealt/taken outside of a 1v1 though.

I agree that the number will likely be adjusted (because I don’t believe anyone is at anet is actually stupid enough to think a +50% damage taken/received skill is actually remotely good) but it should be something hot-fixable, not something that needs a month or 2 of being broken before being fixed in some larger patch.

Old frenzy – positive usable effect in a variety of situations.
New frenzy – positive usable effect only in a 1on1 against an incapacitated opponent. and now at half efficacy as before.

Recently.1043:

Cogbyrn.7283:

It’s entirely possible that 50% inc damage taken with a 50% inc attack speed buff is too much negative to counter the positive. However, to insinuate that it completely isn’t worth it now because it’s assumed that the opponent will be able to attack the Warrior back for the full duration (and, as someone pointed out, that’s faulty math anyway) is irrational insanity.

It’ll probably be tweaked, but for the love of logic, take 3 seconds to think about when the skill is used.

While that’s true, there is also more situations than that. You are only accounting for 1v1 situations, which isn’t the case all the time. What about situations where its 1v2? or 2v2? Basically any situation where damage could be coming from multiple sources. You could still use frenzy in those situations and come out with a positive/even exchange in terms of +damage dealt/taken.

New frenzy is ALWAYS a negative exchange in terms of +damage dealt/taken outside of a 1v1 though.

I agree that the number will likely be adjusted (because I don’t believe anyone is at anet is actually stupid enough to think a +50% damage taken/received skill is actually remotely good) but it should be something hot-fixable, not something that needs a month or 2 of being broken before being fixed in some larger patch.

Old frenzy – positive usable effect in a variety of situations.
New frenzy – positive usable effect only in a 1on1 against an incapacitated opponent. and now at half efficacy as before.

I love 1v1,with my old frenzy i could go even 1v3 no problem.But what u said back there “New frenzy – positive usable effect only in a 1on1 against an incapacitated opponent. and now at half efficacy as before.” You do notice that u said something very wrong?! There is nothing positive u speak of 1v1 fight with incapacitated opponent,thats actually hendicap situation.In 1v1 if u want to make him incapacitated wont happen,he`ll just dodge or remove it/break stun.
Warriors berserker now are TRY HARD,Try twice as hard as before! XD