Guild Wars 2

Hi everybody,

Before all the critisism starts about this thread, let me say that I have been thinking this since I started playing the game at launch. I just want to relief myself here and see if other people feel the same about the warrior class as I do.

So here we go:

Whenever you decide to invest in damage in a profession you lose ability to survive by having to select other traits and losing toughness/vitality. However in the warrior class this loss is relatively very low.
The problem for me is not their healing signet which is strong, not their high base health or heavy armor or even none of their things. The problem is that they still have those things up high when they are invested in power builds.

I don’t know how you guys are thinking about it, but this also gives the class so less depth. The skillcap on the warrior is so low because of this.

Please do note that I really do respect players that go to the maximum with their warrior and reach out to the skill ceiling, however in my opinion this ceiling is just so low.

So please tell me, how can I find any depth in this class instead of just popping over in all the faces of my enemy, while I don’t do anything to survive, but still survive.

PS. This problem is not only PvE, but also in WvW and PvP it plays way too easy.

Classes survive differently, you can clear a group of trash mobs in melee with a guardian without losing aegis by reapplying blind from multiple sources and then you have some blocks ie. lots of active defenses. Those same blinds and blocks can stop key attacks from landing completely in pvp/wvw while a warrior will have to eat some of them, so they have a higher base health to compensate.

It is true, Warriors honestly do not have as much depth as most of the other classes out there. They may be easier to start off with and more newbie friendly, however I think it requires just as much effort to master, if not more to combat the builds that can naturally beat Warriors.

Against skilled opponents, you have to do way more than just "popping" in the face of the enemy, and you "don’t survive by doing nothing to survive". Maybe it is complete scrubs you are playing against, because it is definitely difficult against skilled players.

Warriors don’t have alot of innate dodging and kiting abilities as most classes. They don’t have stealth to easier avoid damage, nor do they have a whole lot of utility that other classes don’t already have. Also to be effective, most Warriors have to be in melee range compared to most classes, which naturally has them taking more damage.

The thing I find about Warrior is that the better the enemy is, the higher the skill cap for the Warrior is. Warrior doesn’t have as diverse and useful a set of defensive abilities as, say, Elementalist with their Water spells or Thief with their stealth (and benefits stemming from that). In fact, their defensive abilities are usually quite lacking because they have to invest so much in offense just to be decent in it. It’s this lack of active defense that makes their passive defense a necessity. At high levels of play, Warriors can’t actively prevent every big burst that comes their way. They have to pick which ones they can take with their passive defense to still come out on top. So, when playing against good people, every play becomes more and more of a conscious thing.

Basically, having innately decent survivability is the Warrior class mechanic, just like stealth is for Thief. You have to rely on it and know how to use it to do well.

You are right the skill floor is pretty low on this profession, but that’s on purpose. You can’t have all profession with a high skill floor. Not only that limit your diversity, but that will hurt your player base. Some ppl just can’t reach high skill floor and will lose interest in the game.

That said, the skill ceilling for the warrior is good. Not the highest, but it’s still really interesting. If warrior is too easy for you, there is other profession specifically designed to fill that role.

Thaddeus.4891:

You are right the skill floor is pretty low on this profession, but that’s on purpose. You can’t have all profession with a high skill floor. Not only that limit your diversity, but that will hurt your player base. Some ppl just can’t reach high skill floor and will lose interest in the game.

That said, the skill ceilling for the warrior is good. Not the highest, but it’s still really interesting. If warrior is too easy for you, there is other profession specifically designed to fill that role.

The skill floor isn’t even that low, you’ve never tried mace specs that chain CC while dps’ing.

You probably base your crap off of shoutbow and hambow, but I can’t really blame casual people who are scared to play the hard builds though.

It’s like saying Ele is braindead as a class because triple cantrips but you don’t even play the fresh air version of ele which is like probably the only thing that’s not braindead about ele.

Just a really dumb statement.

Why don’t you people try out DPS specs and see if you can even handle it? You people probably can’t, specially the ones calling Warrior low skill cap.

Amir.1570:

The skill floor isn’t even that low, you’ve never tried mace specs that chain CC while dps’ing.

You probably base your crap off of shoutbow and hambow, but I can’t really blame casual people who are scared to play the hard builds though.

It’s like saying Ele is braindead as a class because triple cantrips but you don’t even play the fresh air version of ele which is like probably the only thing that’s not braindead about ele.

Just a really dumb statement.

Why don’t you people try out DPS specs and see if you can even handle it? You people probably can’t, specially the ones calling Warrior low skill cap.

Wow, you woke up on the wrong side of the bed today? I’m don’t consider myself a casual tbh. I have 3,7k hours in the game, far from the highest, but still enough to not be consider a casual.

I didn’t say that all warrior build are easy build, neither did I said that I tried every build possible. All I’m saying is that overall Warrior have a lower skill ’’FLOOR’’, meaning that its a profession that is more accessible to new player. Ppl are able to do a decent job on a warrior even if they are not that good because it have more passive defense, its a more forgiving profession. That doesn’t mean that Warrior need no skill or that all build possible on warrior are easy mode.

Just calm down and breath man.

using a bad build doesnt make you any better.

I like creating metaphors and analogies and whatnot, so I want to give my opinion on this matter in math form.

Let’s say we have a warrior and a mesmer. The warrior plays something meta[doesn’t matter]. The mesmer plays something meta as well[Shatter, let’s say]. Strength will be how well they play in a match.

Mesmer Strength=(Build Strength) X (Mesmer Skill)

This simply means that the build is complimented by the skill, amplifying its potency.

Warrior Strength=(Build Strength) + (Warrior Skill)

This is where the misunderstanding comes from. If the warrior’s build is strong, even while the skillfulness is low, you can still get good results. However, the cons to this should be obvious. Once you reach a certain tier of PvP[or otherwise] the warrior’s raw skill becomes much more impactful to results.

As I say this, I’d like to also say that warrior builds would have a higher ‘value’ than many other profession’s builds. For instance, a hambow is a 5 while power shatter[mesmer] is a 2. Thus:

MS=2 x (Skill)

and

WS=5+(Skill)

In this example, a mesmer’s skill would have to be a 3 in order to reach the same strength as a warrior with 1 skill. However, let’s say the mesmer had 4. The MS[Mesmer Strength] would be 8, thus the warrior would have to reach skill 3 to reach an equal WS[Warrior Strength]. And the difference in scaling just becomes larger as we go up.

These aren’t accurate numbers, of course, but simply thought up to give you the general idea of where I see the warrior’s strength comes from.

Warrior’s most newbie friendly.

Later on, any class that’s a bit experienced, treat warriors like doll rags.

And it appears that Warrior in the end isn’t such a great profession as it appeared at beginning.

Warrior may be easy to get things done with, but if you strive to optimize with it you will find that it can be difficult to “master.”

Warrior is designed to eat any class that decides it can tank the warrior.

Veterans know how to kite, and the number of usable traits dwindle as the warrior specializes in power.

Try to fight a thief that can take advantage of his evades and knows when to dump condis on you/perma poisons you. That’s when warrior gets deep.
in the beginning, Warrior is more newbie friendly. When against classes with experience, they melt with reasonably little witty play.

It has a low skill floor, but the skill ceiling is difficult to reach vs similarly skilled players of any other class.

I have over 6k hours in game and over 95% of that as warrior.
Why? Because its an easy class.
Even though I am propably a decent warrior by now, I wouldnt call myself a skilled player in general giving the amount of time I played.
Thats mostly due to me being a clicker, meaning i still click my skills instead of using key binds. I am left handed, so i use the num pad instead of the WASD lay out and there arent that much keys around it that are as easily reachable compared to using your left hand on the keyboard.
Being a clicker means using ranged AoE is a pain because i have to move my cursor away from the skill bar to my target and back again which takes alot of time.
I think warrior is the class with the least amount of ranged AoE skills (2 on longbow and 1 on Rampage) so it offers the most build diversity to me without that handicap.

The V.8759:

I don’t know how you guys are thinking about it, but this also gives the class so less depth. The skillcap on the warrior is so low because of this.

Please do note that I really do respect players that go to the maximum with their warrior and reach out to the skill ceiling, however in my opinion this ceiling is just so low.

Current Warrior is extremely hard to play (in PvP or WvW) against competent players. The hammer, mace, axe and bow skills are highly telegraphed, easy to evade/blind/-put your favourite counter here-. The Rifle is useless. The distinctive feature from Warriors -the burst attacks- are now a pale shadow from the past, due those abilities were largely nerfed in damage and now adrenaline is unsuitable to stack to use it surgicaly, because almost instantly decays to 0.

Since everyone is able to easily avoid most of conventional Warrior skills, the meta in PvP is moving towards passive damage: swords + condition damage and tons of sustain to crush enemies through auto attacks in atrition squirmishes. Is a dumb way of play, but is the way ArenaNet WANTS everyone to play EVERY class in the game.

It’s not low when you see other survival mechanics from other classes does not even require any stats to be effective. feel easy examples, thiefs, mesmer, engi, s/f ele, guard, necro.

also how is 00626 and 00464 a invested in power build
an invested in power build is like engis 60044, they don’t even need to spec for any condi clear to be more then useful.

Purple Miku.7032:

Warrior may be easy to get things done with, but if you strive to optimize with it you will find that it can be difficult to “master.”

pretty much this, hambow before nerf was already a noob killer, any competent plays can kill it with ease. low skill floor, also low skill cap, so when reached a certain skill level, you can’t do kitten while others can do a lot. Now, with shoutheal warriors actually reach a higher level of skill cap, more combos more counter play more capabilities and easier land attacks much like the rest of the classes.