Guild Wars 2

Specifically Greatsword and Rifle Warriors? I like to have the option of melee’ing and ranging…

So ya, how are Greatsword/Rifle Warriors in 1v1 and Roaming?

Horrible.

15char

Brutally bad. Never go it alone as a Warrior, always have allies by your side. Against any competent opponent you will, the overwhelming majority of the time, lose.

There’s nothing more to be said really.

Darn. I guess I’ll roll a Guardian then.

Thanks guys

Ugh. Yeah, roll another braindead guardian then. Just what this game needs.

Sil.4560:

Ugh. Yeah, roll another braindead guardian then. Just what this game needs.

Makes grouping easier. Heh. I love guardians!

Look here’s the brutal truth. 1v1 for us is a true challenge. The vast majority of classes have an advantage on us. Guardians and thieves being the most oppressive if played right.

That being said there are builds that excel at 1v1. The funny thing about warrior is that if you are willing to kite you can win many fight you otherwise would not be able to. I find that closing and opening the gap often lead to confusion among classes that aren’t really mobile.

There are things to say away from. Heavy condition builds will rip most warrior apart and unless you spec specifically for it (might kitten yourself in the process) its best to just stay way from those fight. Most mesmers and some ele will rip you to shreds if your not careful. Melee guardians with burn, retal, and full heals are insane challenging to fight.

As far as Gs rifle goes. Roaming your bait to get eaten. You wont have the speed to out run a zerg or a shield for breathing room. GS/Rifle is better for zerg not roaming. Imho if your serious about roaming it Sw/x and GS.

Roll a Warrior Rok. One day, ArenaNet will change the Warrior class and we’ll have our days in the sun.

actually 1 vs 1 is the thing where they can be good
take a hammer and an axe/shield and you have your enemy knocked down/stunned so much that they cant deal too much dmg while you can reach them all the time
:)

(ofc its hard if the enemy is a skilled player but in general you can win a lot of 1 vs 1 in spvp or wvw)
@ TheGuy: i think thieves are actually easiest enemy for warrior if traited right^^… only too much blindness on pistol skill 5 can be annoying but the rest is easy most times

i think hardest class is necro … so much conditions and criple+chilled+fear keeps you out of the necros range all the time… can be really annoying

Bunker ele is not too hard actually if you are defensive enough…
ele needs mobility and warrior can knock down/back and stun and immobilize and criple a lot

Enmity.3428:

Brutally bad. Never go it alone as a Warrior, always have allies by your side. Against any competent opponent you will, the overwhelming majority of the time, lose.

There’s nothing more to be said really.

then you never played warrior long enough or didnt find the correct build to use on warrior
or you never met a good warrior in 1 vs 1

Enmity.3428:

Roll a Warrior Rok. One day, ArenaNet will change the Warrior class and we’ll have our days in the sun.

And we’ll crush the privileged classes into darkness forever.

People should play what they like and not what is op or not. Eventually things get buffed and nerfed and u realize you will be playing with a nerfed profession that u dont like to play. By the way, about 1vs1 fights. Only a brain dead warrior will go directly 1vs1 anyone. You have to use your brain, u have to you your cc, and when the oppurtunity shines u finish ur opponent off. On another note, if you are doing a Guardian for a 1vs1 fight u are failing tremendously. You cant beat me as guardian vs me as warrior? You know why? Ok ok we start the fight, you are wining, i say bye bye. Guardians cant kite anyone, so they only kill anyone who is stupid enough to go 1vs1 and still stay until the end and dieing until they realize they cant win. On the other hand, if i am wining on a warrior a Guardian cant run. Will just close up with GS and kite you till death. Play what you like, otherwise you will be stomped on WvW or spvp as warrior or guardian..

Knox.3748:

…… *By the way, about 1vs1 fights. Only a brain dead warrior will go directly 1vs1 anyone. *……You have to use your brain, u have to you your cc, and when the oppurtunity shines u finish ur opponent off. ..

How sad is that. Warriors have to be cautious to avoid a 1v1 fight because they are famous in all games for being frail and squishy. Brutal

Fist, let me say that GW2 is not a game balanced on a 1v1 basis. The concept behind many design decisions is much like Rock-Paper-Scissors. Sometimes you’ll find yourself against a class that is paper while you’re rock, and if the two of you are roughly of equal skill you’ll probably lose most duels against said build. The problem currently is that there are certain specs that are so diverse in what they do that unless you are running a spec that is similarly (im)balanced you’ll have a hard time.

Warriors currently don’t have many ways to counter certain builds. If the foe has a heavy condition based build unless you have Lyssa runes and sig of stamina with mending you probably won’t stand a chance. Problem is, if you do run that or say Shouts with Soldier runes you’ll be ineffective against a high direct DPS build. This would be fine balance wise if there wasn’t for those builds that allowed them to combat many different builds without any negative effects. Bunkers are currently the biggest offenders, some like the ranger bunker has such high healing, protection, and regen that as a DPS build unless they seriously screw up or you mange to interrupt their healing several times you’ll probably lose. That being said there are a few good 1v1 builds like this…

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNAR5ejgOxu1QuQMRCAkCsyyUoojClYSpot6A-TsAg0CnI4SxljLDXSus1MIYhwWEA

If there was a sliding scale from Pure Bunker to Pure DPS with several specs in between that are more towards the center, it would be balance if the Pure Bunker and Pure DPS came down to who was the stronger player, but currently I don’t think that’s the case. Some bunker specs could eat an entire combo from a pure DPS warrior or thief and not dodge or use stun breakers, just having their toughness, protection, and regen and they would survive it. This build would be to the left of Pure DPS because it actually has some toughness and utility so it could actually stand a chance 1v1, If you wanted a 25/25/0/0/20 with all DPS gear you would take out a enemy fast if you caught them but so many of the combos are slow and predictable even with frenzy and any foe that is any good will simply avoid the spike. What maces mace/shield useful is that it can let you bait out stun breakers so you can actually land your spike then stop any attempt to heal afterwords. Deflection is also awesome because it lets you counter ranged spikes and hurt your foe at the same time. Still, really good condition builds, bunkers, or semi tough mesmers will generally wear you down. You could try to run a counter to those but that makes you very limited in terms of what you can fight and for me 1v1 is just practice for such situations in TPvP were you’re attacking a defended point solo.

As for weapons like Hammers, they can be a nightmare in team fights, hammer shock with leg specialist into an Earthshaker, but 1v1 the attacks are so slow and easy to dodge. Mace/Shield servers the same focus of CC and interrupts but is very fast and designed for one opponent. Not to mention having deflection gives it waaay more damage avoiding utility than the hammer could ever offer.

Wars will still find themselves on the losing side of rock, paper, scissors in a 1v1 than a Blind Thief, Bunker Ranger, or Mesmer ever will but that’s mostly because those builds simply surpass most others at this point. In 1v1 servers the only classes I see consistently beating those 3 classes is another of those classes running a similar build.

GW2 isn’t a 1v1 game, classes are balanced on how they preform in a team environment. Warriors currently lack on both fronts, there are strong builds, but they require much more skill to play well against some of the current easier-to-play meta we see atm (cough mes builds that require you do little more than avoid combat and let clones/phants wear them down and use stun breaks cough).

I agree with the rock/paper/scissors theory. The problem is I can’t think of a matchup that favors the Warrior in any 1v1

Orangensaft.7139:

Enmity.3428:

Brutally bad. Never go it alone as a Warrior, always have allies by your side. Against any competent opponent you will, the overwhelming majority of the time, lose.

There’s nothing more to be said really.

then you never played warrior long enough or didnt find the correct build to use on warrior
or you never met a good warrior in 1 vs 1

1,456 hours since headstart and Rank 26 in PvP. I think that’s a decent enough level of experience, don’t you? As for the “correct build” – there isn’t one. The build I use now is as good as I can get it for my playstyle. I’ve played most, if not all, of the most common “viable” builds with varying degrees of success. Regardless, the overall picture is one of a sub-par class in comparison to the other classes – an experience shared by enough fellow Warriors (as well as those who play other classes,) to validate my opinion. The almost complete absence of Warriors in top-level play must just be a coincidence too.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/sPvP-Class-Tier-List/page/10#post2092002

I guess everyone in this thread has got it wrong too, or are you going to argue that a Dueling class list would read any different?

Or… perhaps you’re just a far better player than the rest of us?

Enmity.3428:

Orangensaft.7139:

Enmity.3428:

Brutally bad. Never go it alone as a Warrior, always have allies by your side. Against any competent opponent you will, the overwhelming majority of the time, lose.

There’s nothing more to be said really.

then you never played warrior long enough or didnt find the correct build to use on warrior
or you never met a good warrior in 1 vs 1

1,456 hours since headstart and Rank 26 in PvP. I think that’s a decent enough level of experience, don’t you? As for the “correct build” – there isn’t one. The build I use now is as good as I can get it for my playstyle. I’ve played most, if not all, of the most common “viable” builds with varying degrees of success. Regardless, the overall picture is one of a sub-par class in comparison to the other classes – an experience shared by enough fellow Warriors (as well as those who play other classes,) to validate my opinion. The almost complete absence of Warriors in top-level play must just be a coincidence too.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/sPvP-Class-Tier-List/page/10#post2092002

I guess everyone in this thread has got it wrong too, or are you going to argue that a Dueling class list would read any different?

Or… perhaps you’re just a far better player than the rest of us?

No need to be so kitten ed and use so many ironic provocations
(i counted 3)

I never said that Warrior is the best pvp class…i am sure it isnt
I just dont agree with your description that warrior is “Brutally bad”

And i referred to 1vs1 only!

(because you mentioned “The almost complete absence of Warriors in top-level play” which does definitly not consist of 1 vs 1 only…)

… “brutally bad” is really exaggerated… Warrior may be not the best pvp class but Warriors can definitly keep up with a lot of builds from other classes… at least in 1 vs 1!

As I asked earlier. With both players having the same skill level, what class is a good matchup for warriors in a 1v1 ?

I agree with someone elses description of brutally bad in 1v1

Forzani.2584:

As I asked earlier. With both players having the same skill level, what class is a good matchup for warriors in a 1v1 ?

I agree with someone elses description of brutally bad in 1v1

Sam exact skill level and class knowledge. Hmm. If both players are good he warrior is slated to lose heads up. If both are bad anybody could win.

I think I’ve posted this a while ago, at least some of my experience in duels:

peter.9024:

So I’ve done a lot of duels recently and I can try to summarize some of the experience from my side:

My play style: GS + Axe/ shield, all berserker except 3 knight pieces in armor (hoelbrak), 20/0/20/0/30. Utils are healing surge, balanced stance, signet of stamina, endure pain, signet of rage. I don’t win with bulls rush frenzy, but rather steady axe / GS pressure and eviscerate. Hoelbrak, food and dogged mitigate most of the movement impairment now and last stand / balanced stance allows me to mitigate quite a bit of the CC.

Thiefs:
Backstab Thiefs are easiest. The burst will never down me and my return damage from axe and GS does quick work.
DP: good dp Thiefs usually ends in a draw as he can’t burst me down, at the same time I can’t stop them from regening in perma stealth
PD: this one is nasty, a good one will still kite me 24/7 and that’s the only class is switch to a rifle to deal with.
SD: This one has been popping up more recently. Against decent ones, you’ll usually win because the immobilize from infiltrator strike will fall off fast and you can stay mobile. However against really good SD players, you’ll probably loose as you can’t match the mobility due to infiltrator spam and heavy boon stripping (removing Signet of Rage almost everytime).

Mesmer:
Shatter: shatter is probably one of the easier mesmers to deal with. Dodge the burst and let the axe do its work.
Confusion: pure confusion is ok now with the damage nerf.
Phantasm: any one with half a brain playing you won’t be able to beat. The swordsman or duelist phantasm pressure is too high and the high uptime of protection + reduced damage will kill you eventually. Best advice is trying to kill the phantasms before the signet of illusion buff kicks in, but most of the time this just extends the fight as eventually the phantasms pressure will overwhelm you.
Immortal builds: draw

Guardian:
Glass cannon: Win-able, keep whirlwind as much as possible, don’t stand in their bursts and sometimes wait out their protection.
Boon: Draw, you won’t get through protection at the same time he doesn’t have enough damage to kill me. In fact, I find most of the damage I take when fighting them comes from retaliation.

Necro:
Power: Power necro is easy, with – condi duration and decent armor your pressure is higher and you can stick on then easily. Dodge through wells.
Condimancer: their + condi duration is greater then my – condi duration. Probably kite feat and you’ll loose most fights unless he messes up with the movement conditions.

Ranger:
Zerker: really easy, he can’t kite you and he’s paper. If you move a lot, his pet will miss a lot
Regen: the sustain is too high. I don’t think I can beat them unless I manage to land a perfect whirlwind, rush, shield bash, eviscerate combo.
General trap: 50/50. Conditions still hurt, but if you manage to to stick on him it’s winable

Ele:
DD bunker ele: with the boom hate, I can still win 70% of the fights. Early pressure will force the ele into a defensive mode, where you’ll eventually beat him down.
SD: win almost every fight. A lot of the skills are telegraphed hard.
Other builds: boon hate melts them especially those with lower protection uptime.
Oh, since almost no ele runs +condi-duration food, you won’t get kited at all.

Engineer:
Confusion engi: with the – condi damage on confusion, it’s much easier now. Whirlwind on supply crate and should be fairly straight forward. Sometimes you do get still locked down by burn or poison. Around 70%
HGH: very hard. Condis eat you alive and he will kite you a lot. If you have good dogged and cleans its winable. Around 30% win rate

Other warriors:
Similar builds: pure skill. Dodge evis, whirlwind. Hope yourkitten. Clutch endure pains usually win the match
Bulls charge: lol easiest fight. Dodge the bulls charge and they are a sitting duck.
Rifle/bow: very easy, stick on them and both will go down really fast
Hammer: hammer is soo slow. Pretty much anything can be avoided with stability, of which my build has a lot
Bleed build: usually you can down them before they reach critical bleed stacks. Worst case change endure pain for shake it off and it’s an easy fight.
PVT might stacking: a lot of Hp, but no damage. You should be more mobile that he can’t get high stacks from GS. Also if they run shouts, they barely have any good utilities so shield bash and whirlwind will do good damage.

Forzani.2584:

I agree with the rock/paper/scissors theory. The problem is I can’t think of a matchup that favors the Warrior in any 1v1

It depends on the build, with the one I posted you can beat most thieves builds that aren’t blinding powder. Rangers are beatable unless it’s the super regen/prot Beast Master ranger. Guardians it actually comes down to skill so long as they aren’t super bunker. Mesmers, Shatter is pretty easy because it’s only deadly when you don’t see it coming. Confusion mes is manageable, phantasm is pretty much unwinable. With my build ele can actually be really easy, rare I have trouble with them. Other wars it depends on the build, if they’re running something like conditions you may lose. Like any fight with your own class it’s generally all skill.

The problem is, so many people run the…screw it let’s call them what they are… overpowered builds that it makes warrior even look worse.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Forzani.2584:

I agree with the rock/paper/scissors theory. The problem is I can’t think of a matchup that favors the Warrior in any 1v1

It depends on the build, with the one I posted you can beat most thieves builds that aren’t blinding powder. Rangers are beatable unless it’s the super regen/prot Beast Master ranger. Guardians it actually comes down to skill so long as they aren’t super bunker. Mesmers, Shatter is pretty easy because it’s only deadly when you don’t see it coming. Confusion mes is manageable, phantasm is pretty much unwinable. With my build ele can actually be really easy, rare I have trouble with them. Other wars it depends on the build, if they’re running something like conditions you may lose. Like any fight with your own class it’s generally all skill.

The problem is, so many people run the…screw it let’s call them what they are… overpowered builds that it makes warrior even look worse.

I bet this works well for you….and I also bet you are an above average player that likely outskills your opponent.

The problem is I am focused on WvW. Roam around looking for good 1v1 or 1v2 fights. That build would get kited to kitten in WvW. Seems every fight I get into during WvW I get kited. So much so that I have been dabbling with Rifle.

Also, in WvW, the majority of thieves I face now are blinding powder.

Edit: To clarify. My opinion on Warriors is mostly based on playing against them. I am still fairly new using them and have a lot to learn. As a Ranger, doesn’t matter the weapons I use, it is a mismatch in favor of Ranger.

Rock/paper/scissors is lazy and unimaginative. Especially when they kitten it up so bad that one greatly outclasses the other two.

peter.9024:

I think I’ve posted this a while ago, at least some of my experience in duels:

peter.9024:

So I’ve done a lot of duels recently and I can try to summarize some of the experience from my side:

My play style: GS + Axe/ shield, all berserker except 3 knight pieces in armor (hoelbrak), 20/0/20/0/30. Utils are healing surge, balanced stance, signet of stamina, endure pain, signet of rage. I don’t win with bulls rush frenzy, but rather steady axe / GS pressure and eviscerate. Hoelbrak, food and dogged mitigate most of the movement impairment now and last stand / balanced stance allows me to mitigate quite a bit of the CC.

Could you do us a favor and plug in your build here You do not have to of course since many like to keep the full ins and outs of their builds private. As a lyssa warrior I have yet to run into a warrior build that could pressure me. Mostly because I use a sword and bull charge for movement allowing me to reset or escape pressure situations. Vs most other warriors they are more glass and my stats too balanced to burst me down without getting killed themselves. Either way haven’t run into the build you have described.

Your analysis of the common builds seems right to me.

Sil.4560:

Rock/paper/scissors is lazy and unimaginative. Especially when they kitten it up so bad that one greatly outclasses the other two.

There’s plenty of games that use this format and it makes sense for team-based games. In a perfectly balanced TPvP your team would each have a person that was built to counter another role. Currently, there are too many builds that can fill any role and makes them more appealing, and most of them are bunkers or bunker-like.

Plenty of games share horrible balance problems also. The bunkers you mentioned would be the one that outclasses the other two, however, so we seem to be in agreement on that. If anything, I’d rather see burst be the predominant style over bunker. At least that way the fights don’t just come down to these long, boring games of which class has the most overpowered sustain and every last dodge would be critical.

Forzani.2584:

Knox.3748:

…… *By the way, about 1vs1 fights. Only a brain dead warrior will go directly 1vs1 anyone. *……You have to use your brain, u have to you your cc, and when the oppurtunity shines u finish ur opponent off. ..

How sad is that. Warriors have to be cautious to avoid a 1v1 fight because they are famous in all games for being frail and squishy. Brutal

Its not sad. Ofc if you go full glass cannon you can just jump in a 1vs1.

Running a mesmer that has 7+ ways to get out of stun or escape burst… Warriors are a joke.

Orangensaft.7139:

No need to be so kitten ed and use so many ironic provocations
(i counted 3)

I never said that Warrior is the best pvp class…i am sure it isnt
I just dont agree with your description that warrior is “Brutally bad”

And i referred to 1vs1 only!

(because you mentioned “The almost complete absence of Warriors in top-level play” which does definitly not consist of 1 vs 1 only…)

… “brutally bad” is really exaggerated… Warrior may be not the best pvp class but Warriors can definitly keep up with a lot of builds from other classes… at least in 1 vs 1!

What about “horribly disadvantaged” or “frustratingly weak” or “painfully unsuitable” or any other way of saying essentially the same thing? Warriors are brutally bad at roaming and 1vs1.

You’re right when you say that top-level play doesn’t solely consist of 1vs1 but surely you won’t deny that being able to function effectively without team-mates to back you up is an essential part of being successful in tPvP? The fact that Warriors are so bad the overwhelming majority of time is the reason why they’re so under-represented in competitive PvP – having to dedicate another member of the team to babysit a Warrior puts that team at a significant disadvantage.

The OP referred to roaming and 1vs1, to which I responded to by saying that Warriors are the worst class for doing so. I don’t even know why we’re debating this fact?

Lastly, you say “Warriors can definitly keep up with a lot of builds from other classes… at least in 1 vs 1!” To me the opposite is true – Warriors are at their best when not matched in a 1vs1 scenario, but instead are far more effective in team fights.

The bottom line is that Warriors are kited and killed with relative ease. Read the forums – the consensus on this is there to see. Warriors badly need help in PvP.

Lol yes warriors do suck. They don’t seem to suck in the begining but theb you realize all classes have a build that is potentially op. Warrior does not have that.

Enmity.3428:

Roll a Warrior Rok. One day, ArenaNet will change the Warrior class and we’ll have our days in the sun.

This might be a bit late but,

that exact sentence was said in the engineer forum [except it was about the engineer :P ]

Roll the Warrior if you like to PLAY the Warrior. What is so hard to understand?

If you guys can’t think of a favorable warrior matchup then you aren’t doing it right. Im sorry. Truth hurts. Im sick and tired of all the biitching. Warriors as a community need to start thinking outside of the “I have a greatsword and should be able to train you to death” box.

Guardians:
Dance with em, force CDs, interrupt major heals, avoid aoe and condition damage, burst when blocks are down. Balance stance. Do not expect to train into them and win. Dance with them.

Mesmers:
Stay on target. Use light aoe to control images. Manage image numbers by doing soft swaps to them. If they pile up and come at you, evade or block the inevitable blow out. Condition removal is key. If you can’t identify the real mesmer quickly and effectively then dont be afraid to control the images as long as you can do it effectively. This is where there damage comes from. Without them they only got auto attack and limited conditions.

Elementalist:
This is the easiest 1v1 for any build. You can almost train them as long as you evade their aoe. Avoid ground conditions. They do kitten for damage. Cleanse the occasional bleed stack. Force CDs and burst after they are down.

Necro:
Condition cleansing. Avoid ground aoe. Balance stance is win. Keep up the pressure. This is another fight where you can almost train, but still need to maintain situational awareness. If they control the fight you will die.

Engineer:
If you have ranged capabilities it makes this fight a lot easier. Range them and force them to come to you by evading grenades etc. Condition control is critical. If you are pure melee then pop defensives early in order to apply pressure and get them on their heels. They want you to train them. be aware of ground aoe and do not underestimate it’s power. Destroying healing turrets is clutch. If you have aoe of your own it is powerful against engineers because it can wipe out their support turrets. Balance Stance and breaking and/or preventing immobilize wins this fight.

Ranger:
Stay on target. You need to keep up the pressure to win. Cleanse conditions. Shield is great for closing the gaps. Balance stance.

Thief:
Most difficult 1v1 for warriors. Dance with them. DO NOT EXPECT TO TRAIN AND WIN. Situational awareness must be a priority to win this fight. I recommend a Shield, Balance Stance, Mending, and Shake it Off (passive is fine). Be aware of the build. Bleeds need to be managed. If they use heavy blinds then be aware of this. You wont be able to “burst” a thief unless they are bad. Negating their damage should be prioritized over pumping out your own damage. Predicting the pattern of the thief is the hardest part. Blocking their AOE or Heartseekers is clutch and can turn this fight around for you because they give you small windows of opportunity to land a Shield Bash (or whatever cc you have available) into an Immobilize and/or semi-burst.

Other Warriors:
Smash face rawr!

Do you guys see a pattern here? Here are the 4 most important things that win fights and most warriors ignore:

1. Managing Conditions
2. Balance Stance
3. Defensive Capabilities (Shield, Mobility, etc)
4. Ranged capabilities

Think outside the box. Do not expect to train any target to death except elementalists. Play around with balanced builds that include defensive capabilities. Reprioritize how you play because what you are doing is not working.

My friend, this is one of the best posts worth reading on the Warrior community. The thing is is not the Warrior, its that people cant play their classe. You see people complaining on the Warrior thread, on the necro thread, on the Engi thread. kitten , you even see people complaining on the Guardian thread.

Like you said “Do you guys see a pattern here” ? I almost never die on WvW with my Engi and people say they suck. Same thing on necro. As far as my Warrior goes, still learning but im kinda sick and tired of reading the thread where people actually think that Warrior absolutly suck at WvW.

Zelulose.8695:

Lol yes warriors do suck. They don’t seem to suck in the begining but theb you realize all classes have a build that is potentially op. Warrior does not have that.

Honestly I was thinking about this yesterday. There is currently no FOTM for this class and there hasn’t been one in months.

Knox.3748:

My friend, this is one of the best posts worth reading on the Warrior community. The thing is is not the Warrior, its that people cant play their classe. You see people complaining on the Warrior thread, on the necro thread, on the Engi thread. kitten , you even see people complaining on the Guardian thread.

Like you said “Do you guys see a pattern here” ? I almost never die on WvW with my Engi and people say they suck. Same thing on necro. As far as my Warrior goes, still learning but im kinda sick and tired of reading the thread where people actually think that Warrior absolutly suck at WvW.

i think warriors are great, problem is, they have so many flaws. so if you meet in wvw good enemy and he know what to do, you have problem. and some builds and some classes outshine warriors and they just need to be decent to fight good warrior, and if you make some mistake, you die. and only few ppl in wvw roam solo, more common are 1v2+ fights, where warriors are fubar
another thing is, 90% ppl you meet in wvw are bad PvErs, decent pvp warrior destroy them like flies

Jasra.3627:

Knox.3748:

My friend, this is one of the best posts worth reading on the Warrior community. The thing is is not the Warrior, its that people cant play their classe. You see people complaining on the Warrior thread, on the necro thread, on the Engi thread. kitten , you even see people complaining on the Guardian thread.

Like you said “Do you guys see a pattern here” ? I almost never die on WvW with my Engi and people say they suck. Same thing on necro. As far as my Warrior goes, still learning but im kinda sick and tired of reading the thread where people actually think that Warrior absolutly suck at WvW.

i think warriors are great, problem is, they have so many flaws. so if you meet in wvw good enemy and he know what to do, you have problem. and some builds and some classes outshine warriors and they just need to be decent to fight good warrior, and if you make some mistake, you die. and only few ppl in wvw roam solo, more common are 1v2+ fights, where warriors are fubar
another thing is, 90% ppl you meet in wvw are bad PvErs, decent pvp warrior destroy them like flies

I do not think there is 1 op specc for every class but I do think that certain types of playstyle get popularized for every class. I also think that the speccs that have been popularized for warrior are gimpp with little thought put into them beyond “I want to train you to death” and “I want to press Bulls Charge, Frenzy, and 100 blades every fight and win.” Most people dont take astep back and to think about how they are playing the class, make adjustments, balance their approach, learn from mistakes, and continue forward. Instead they come here and complain.

Drek Thalon.5490:

I do not think there is 1 op specc for every class but I do think that certain types of playstyle get popularized for every class. I also think that the speccs that have been popularized for warrior are gimpp with little thought put into them beyond “I want to train you to death” and “I want to press Bulls Charge, Frenzy, and 100 blades every fight and win.” Most people dont take astep back and to think about how they are playing the class, make adjustments, balance their approach, learn from mistakes, and continue forward. Instead they come here and complain.

Except warriors are legitimately underpowered and this is something that even the devs agree on. Come up with a legitimate argument other than some variation of “L2P” and maybe we’ll care.

Drek Thalon.5490:

Jasra.3627:

Knox.3748:

My friend, this is one of the best posts worth reading on the Warrior community. The thing is is not the Warrior, its that people cant play their classe. You see people complaining on the Warrior thread, on the necro thread, on the Engi thread. kitten , you even see people complaining on the Guardian thread.

Like you said “Do you guys see a pattern here” ? I almost never die on WvW with my Engi and people say they suck. Same thing on necro. As far as my Warrior goes, still learning but im kinda sick and tired of reading the thread where people actually think that Warrior absolutly suck at WvW.

i think warriors are great, problem is, they have so many flaws. so if you meet in wvw good enemy and he know what to do, you have problem. and some builds and some classes outshine warriors and they just need to be decent to fight good warrior, and if you make some mistake, you die. and only few ppl in wvw roam solo, more common are 1v2+ fights, where warriors are fubar
another thing is, 90% ppl you meet in wvw are bad PvErs, decent pvp warrior destroy them like flies

I do not think there is 1 op specc for every class but I do think that certain types of playstyle get popularized for every class. I also think that the speccs that have been popularized for warrior are gimpp with little thought put into them beyond “I want to train you to death” and “I want to press Bulls Charge, Frenzy, and 100 blades every fight and win.” Most people dont take astep back and to think about how they are playing the class, make adjustments, balance their approach, learn from mistakes, and continue forward. Instead they come here and complain.

And they complain for a reason, since every other profession is already doing pretty much everything better than a warrior, so there is no reason to take them into tPvP.

@Drek Thalon:

There’s some good advice in your post, but having said that, tactics like these always look great on paper. What I mean is, it’s easier said than done and takes little to no consideration of what your opponent is doing (nor their level of skill.)

“The best-laid schemes o’ mice an ’men, Gang aft agley.”

Much of your advice, such as “cleanse conditions”, “avoid AoE” and “keep up the pressure” are generalities and to be honest, quite obvious. The problem being that much of what you say is precisely what Warriors have trouble doing. Read the forums; you seem to be under the impression that everyone else runs a greatsword/Bull’s Charge/Frenzy/glass-cannon build when that’s clearly not the case. Shout builds, hammer builds, longbow builds, etc. have all been played and discussed and lo and behold, they all ultimately suffer from the same (if not similar) problems. Of course player skill is a factor but you cannot seriously insist that the class is not at a disadvantage in many key areas in comparison to other classes? “L2p” is as arrogant as it is unhelpful.

On this note, if you do believe it’s just a learn-to-play issue for most, fine, but learning to play the class means putting in hours and hours of dedicated practice. Most people I’d guess don’t have the luxury of being able to spend 4, 5, 6, 7 hours per day to do so. What we’re left with then is a PvP game which is unfriendly, unwelcoming and frustrating for the more casual players. An important point when you consider that a thriving PvP game needs as many players as it can get.

I’m not saying dumb it right down, but PvP shouldn’t just be for the elite, highly skilled players – it should be something everyone can play and enjoy. For this to happen, first and foremost, the classes must be balanced fairly. What’s the point in having a powerful class that very few can play successfully? Bravo to you if you’ve mastered the Warrior class to the extent that you can win most/all matchups or duels. I wish I was that good, and I mean that with all sincerity. Sadly, myself and (I suspect) the majority of other Warriors are struggling for the most part despite our best efforts.

Responding to other players who would like to play and enjoy this class more by simply saying “l2p” is, quite frankly, a churlish attitude to have. Very few are calling for Warriors to be made into and over-powered, easy win class. Most of the “biitching” (as you call it) is actually just Warriors who would like to see some parity. If you think the class is fine and we all just need to “l2p” so be it, but understand you are firmly in the minority.

tl:dr We’re not all as good as you. Like I said, bravo.

Enmity.3428:

@Drek Thalon:

There’s some good advice in your post, but having said that, tactics like these always look great on paper. What I mean is, it’s easier said than done and takes little to no consideration of what your opponent is doing (nor their level of skill.)

“The best-laid schemes o’ mice an ’men, Gang aft agley.”

Much of your advice, such as “cleanse conditions”, “avoid AoE” and “keep up the pressure” are generalities and to be honest, quite obvious. The problem being that much of what you say is precisely what Warriors have trouble doing. .[/b]

You are correct. Lots of generalized cliched comments. Theory craft on paper doesn’t win fights.

Enmity.3428:

@Drek Thalon:

There’s some good advice in your post, but having said that, tactics like these always look great on paper. What I mean is, it’s easier said than done and takes little to no consideration of what your opponent is doing (nor their level of skill.)

“The best-laid schemes o’ mice an ’men, Gang aft agley.”

Much of your advice, such as “cleanse conditions”, “avoid AoE” and “keep up the pressure” are generalities and to be honest, quite obvious. The problem being that much of what you say is precisely what Warriors have trouble doing. Read the forums; you seem to be under the impression that everyone else runs a greatsword/Bull’s Charge/Frenzy/glass-cannon build when that’s clearly not the case. Shout builds, hammer builds, longbow builds, etc. have all been played and discussed and lo and behold, they all ultimately suffer from the same (if not similar) problems. Of course player skill is a factor but you cannot seriously insist that the class is not at a disadvantage in many key areas in comparison to other classes? “L2p” is as arrogant as it is unhelpful.

On this note, if you do believe it’s just a learn-to-play issue for most, fine, but learning to play the class means putting in hours and hours of dedicated practice. Most people I’d guess don’t have the luxury of being able to spend 4, 5, 6, 7 hours per day to do so. What we’re left with then is a PvP game which is unfriendly, unwelcoming and frustrating for the more casual players. An important point when you consider that a thriving PvP game needs as many players as it can get.

I’m not saying dumb it right down, but PvP shouldn’t just be for the elite, highly skilled players – it should be something everyone can play and enjoy. For this to happen, first and foremost, the classes must be balanced fairly. What’s the point in having a powerful class that very few can play successfully? Bravo to you if you’ve mastered the Warrior class to the extent that you can win most/all matchups or duels. I wish I was that good, and I mean that with all sincerity. Sadly, myself and (I suspect) the majority of other Warriors are struggling for the most part despite our best efforts.

Responding to other players who would like to play and enjoy this class more by simply saying “l2p” is, quite frankly, a churlish attitude to have. Very few are calling for Warriors to be made into and over-powered, easy win class. Most of the “biitching” (as you call it) is actually just Warriors who would like to see some parity. If you think the class is fine and we all just need to “l2p” so be it, but understand you are firmly in the minority.

tl:dr We’re not all as good as you. Like I said, bravo.

What I said might seem obvious to you, but I can almost guarantee that many of the people in these forums ignore these things. I didn’t make this post to hear myself talk. (or see myself type? ..) I made it in the hopes that someone would listen and change up their style and see improvement from it instead of coming here to whine.

Saying that hammer, longbow, GS, etc builds suffer from the same problems is a GROSS generalization with abundant oversight. Do not be so quick to judge me on mine, and then turn around to submit your own.

You are right about having the time to learn and play. Most people don’t have huge blocks of time to learn their class, but apparently they have eternity to come here and complain.

I never said warriors are perfect I agree they could use some tweaking. My problem is with people coming here and discouraging any/all new players from even trying the class because they use sweeping statements like, “Horrible” and “Brutally bad”. The OP has probably already rolled a guardian and that makes me sad.

In closing:

Do I think warriors are perfect? Of course not. I just think they have a larger than average learning curve, and a community more willing to spam the forums with “warriors are garbage” posts than take the time to learn.

TheGuy.3568:

peter.9024:

I think I’ve posted this a while ago, at least some of my experience in duels:

peter.9024:

So I’ve done a lot of duels recently and I can try to summarize some of the experience from my side:

My play style: GS + Axe/ shield, all berserker except 3 knight pieces in armor (hoelbrak), 20/0/20/0/30. Utils are healing surge, balanced stance, signet of stamina, endure pain, signet of rage. I don’t win with bulls rush frenzy, but rather steady axe / GS pressure and eviscerate. Hoelbrak, food and dogged mitigate most of the movement impairment now and last stand / balanced stance allows me to mitigate quite a bit of the CC.

Could you do us a favor and plug in your build here You do not have to of course since many like to keep the full ins and outs of their builds private. As a lyssa warrior I have yet to run into a warrior build that could pressure me. Mostly because I use a sword and bull charge for movement allowing me to reset or escape pressure situations. Vs most other warriors they are more glass and my stats too balanced to burst me down without getting killed themselves. Either way haven’t run into the build you have described.

Your analysis of the common builds seems right to me.

I’ve been using this:

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|1.1g.h1|7.1g.h1.e.1g.h1l|1n.79.1g.79.1n.79.1g.79.1n.79.1g.79|2s.0.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0|k59.0.k08.0.u560|16.8|5y.6g.6d.6i.6m|e

The empty spotted in defense is for dogged march and the empty spot in discipline is for boon hate. Sometimes I run signet of stamina instead of fury if I expect more condi damage.

Drek Thalon.5490:

What I said might seem obvious to you, but I can almost guarantee that many of the people in these forums ignore these things. I didn’t make this post to hear myself talk. (or see myself type? ..) I made it in the hopes that someone would listen and change up their style and see improvement from it instead of coming here to whine.

Saying that hammer, longbow, GS, etc builds suffer from the same problems is a GROSS generalization with abundant oversight. Do not be so quick to judge me on mine, and then turn around to submit your own.

You are right about having the time to learn and play. Most people don’t have huge blocks of time to learn their class, but apparently they have eternity to come here and complain.

I never said warriors are perfect I agree they could use some tweaking. My problem is with people coming here and discouraging any/all new players from even trying the class because they use sweeping statements like, “Horrible” and “Brutally bad”. The OP has probably already rolled a guardian and that makes me sad.

In closing:

Do I think warriors are perfect? Of course not. I just think they have a larger than average learning curve, and a community more willing to spam the forums with “warriors are garbage” posts than take the time to learn.

That’s a fair and reasonable reply and I apperciate it.

I do take issue with a couple of points you make though; the various different builds do suffer from the same problems with the only difference being a slight alleviation in one or two aspects of the problems – what I mean is that regardless of what you choose, there is no proven, strong build that can be relied upon, like every other class has. This is due to poor class design and not player-skill. Can these builds be played to good effect? Yes, but what can Warriors do that other classes can’t do far, far better?

No matter what build, Warriors still suffer from a depressing lack of real sustain, woeful condition management, kiting issues, Trait trees which are poorly set out, too many weak (and near useless) traits, and terrible, terrible healing.

I’m not whining here, I’m merely making observations based on my own and other players’ experiences. I love the Warrior class, love the game and I will keep playing as I have been doing but I will continue to call it like I see it. “Brutally bad” and “horrible” may not be the words you’d use to describe duels as a Warrior but more often than not, it is exactly that.

We are in full agreement with regards to your point about Warriors having a “larger than average learning curve” but I think this should not be the case. You shouldn’t have to fight and try so much harder just be be on par.

Lastly, I’d be less worried about people spamming the forums saying “Warriors are garbage” and more worried about the fact that, for the majority of PvP’ers, Warriors are garbage.

Fix the class, not the players.

Originally posted this in another thread but

Right now I have a 10/0/30/30/0 hammer & axe/shield warri with Hoelbrak runes, dogged march and -40% cond duration food for a total of 60% reduction from all conditions and -93% reduction from movement conditions. Along with near permanent stability, your warrior is the type of unstoppable beast that it’s supposed to be.

Since I have over 3200 or so armor along with the resistance to conditions, it’s extremely difficult to take me down. With permanent might and fury, I have over 2500 power, 65% crit chance and 50+ % crit dmg, critting between 7 to 10 k with eviscerate and 4-5 ks with hammer.

Tough as nails, hits like a truck, the way a warri is supposed to be in my estimation.

I’ve beaten mesmers, thieves, elementalists in duels so you are not automatically screwed if left in a 1on1 situation. Yesterday I took out a coordinated sword thief and shatter mesmer in a 1v2, both of whom were still capable of smashing 4-5 of our average players.

TheGreatA.4192:

Originally posted this in another thread but

Right now I have a 10/0/30/30/0 hammer & axe/shield warri with Hoelbrak runes, dogged march and -40% cond duration food for a total of 60% reduction from all conditions and -93% reduction from movement conditions. Along with near permanent stability, your warrior is the type of unstoppable beast that it’s supposed to be.

Since I have over 3200 or so armor along with the resistance to conditions, it’s extremely difficult to take me down. With permanent might and fury, I have over 2500 power, 65% crit chance and 50+ % crit dmg, critting between 7 to 10 k with eviscerate and 4-5 ks with hammer.

Tough as nails, hits like a truck, the way a warri is supposed to be in my estimation.

I’ve beaten mesmers, thieves, elementalists in duels so you are not automatically screwed if left in a 1on1 situation. Yesterday I took out a coordinated sword thief and shatter mesmer in a 1v2, both of whom were still capable of smashing 4-5 of our average players.

Please link us your build using a site such as http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/. I would like to learn more about this super saiyan build.

Drek Thalon.5490:

Please link us your build using a site such as http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/. I would like to learn more about this super saiyan build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNAS3ejcOJvtQCPMxBE0DNML4CThiI9QMGwyA-jUyAYLBZKCE9BO5BlAJyYrgFRjVbjpchVxDRVGAmFA-w

Can’t promise it will work for anybody else but I’ve felt good playing it. Any advice for improvements would be welcome, I do not consider myself a master of the warrior class by any means. Utility skills there are random, traits are changed daily.

Unless your boons get stolen, you should never have below 8 stacks of might, and fury should be permanent. With 15-20 prec stacks, you should go over 60% crit chance.

Hammer has 10% dmg boost to disabled opponents sigil, giving a total of 35% dmg boost to stunned enemies, along with 3-12% from berserker’s power and 6-8 % from empowered.

I believe Drek wanted to help few ppl as not everyone knows how to use their class well, personally i have seen load of warriors that tried to smash me with bullrush at start of the fight..pretty sad.

But as someone mentioned its good in theory, not so much in practice, its might works great on poor/average at best, but ppl that are decent at their class will stomp u, thats the fact and accept it as “warrior”.

Thing is they can do some mistakes and still manage to win as their class allows them do to that – u can’t, and unless they don’t buff us a bit, we have to play excellent to take someone down by outplaying him. At some point i think warrior is pretty well balanced at this point, as it punishes for any mistake while other classes are too forgiving, but we don’t down 7 classes to warrior level right?

I talking as someone that had load of duals in both spvp, tpvp and wvw and have scored 2k hours on warrior, yet i still facepalm sometimes and asking myself “how to counter it?” or “what just happened?”

To anyone that says l2p to each other, teach us how to play and show ur duel videos with fairy decent players, and i don’t mean the upscaled ones in wvw.

Warrior is far from under-powered. They are just too easy to kill.

I think the warrior needs a regen buff and he would be more on par with the survivability of all the other classes.

Forzani.2584:

Knox.3748:

…… *By the way, about 1vs1 fights. Only a brain dead warrior will go directly 1vs1 anyone. *……You have to use your brain, u have to you your cc, and when the oppurtunity shines u finish ur opponent off. ..

How sad is that. Warriors have to be cautious to avoid a 1v1 fight because they are famous in all games for being frail and squishy. Brutal

I’ve noticed that too. It seems like every MMO I’ve played since the pre-2003 Ultima Online has had Warriors as pretty much fodder for other classes. That’s BS since all throughout history Warriors/Soldiers have been greatly feared in battle because of their great power.

It is BS. When I think of a great warrior, I think of one who doesn’t cower into using the tricks and gimmicks of other classes, but relies on his or her pure prowess to seize victory by the throat, fearlessly ripping down opposition and crushing it into the dirt before it ever has a chance to beg for mercy. We should be terrifying to behold, not casually brushed off.