Guild Wars 2

Well, as some of you know I’ve been trying to theorycraft viable Warrior builds that don’t rely on a Longbow. Sadly, while I have found many “good” builds, none of them are worth taking in TPvP. The Longbow is just too darn good. It has a AoE that covers most points and the area around the point, it cleanses with CI reliably, allows for multiple leap and blast finishers that also lets you support your team, and a powerful source of bleed.

I relapsed after getting annoyed because I kept getting teamed up with Shoutbow Wars that didn’t know how to do their job correctly. They would never stand next to teammates when they did their shouts/horn and would not use their Combustion Shot to stack might for the team and would also never use the sword leap to gain a fire shield (which gives you might when hit). As much as I hate Celestial, the build is fantastic when played correctly (until you get teamed up with 2 Mesmers who refuse to swap).

One thing I did find is that I think there’s a decent argument for taking a GS/LB Warrior over a teef. While it’s lower burst damage, you have much more AoE and don’t have a heal that generally makes you do an adorable reverse roll off the point and better point presence in general. Taken with a Meditation Hammer Guard you play really well off of each other. You can use Pin Down to set up the Guards bursts and they can use Ring of Warding to lock them into your 100b. Their hammer 2 can also be used to give both of you more might when you use Combustion Shot.

Hambow and Axebow are still pretty decent, although I’m not sure if they’re worth taking over Shoutbow.

This doesn’t mean I’m going to stop trying to make new builds, I’ve just admitted that double melee builds are generally selfish by design and best used in WvW roaming. Providing team support and doing damage is way more important than what Skullcraker offers, the builds are also generally more reliable because Skull Crack has been tending to be unreliable as of late.

By stating “I submit” you may as well have said you’re not good enough in all honesty.

Not that there’s anything wrong with that considering not many people can handle completely melee specs on Warrior.

Better luck next time I guess. Some people are fated to stagnate and some people are fated to evolve, pretty much all there is to it.

BlackTruth.6813:

By stating “I submit” you may as well have said you’re not good enough in all honesty.

Not that there’s anything wrong with that considering not many people can handle completely melee specs on Warrior.

Better luck next time I guess. Some people are fated to stagnate and some people are fated to evolve, pretty much all there is to it.

The ego levels would make Vegeta feel inadequate.

I’ll state it for the millionth time: your builds are not viable. A teef or MediGuard bring either more mobility, or more team support. A Cele Engi with Rifle and Slick shoes has more useful CC because they can push players off point and then keep them off of it. A Shoutbow Warrior can also do Fear Me + Pin Down to take someone off point, and since there’s probably 2 of you they can also leap off point with sword and Flurry them just to ensure your team gets the decap.

Your Hammer + Axe/mace build has AoE that does nothing but keep the enemy on point because even when you use Fear me you generally chain it, and once Stability comes up (which can be handily provided by a Hammer MediGuard) you are reduced to spamming Axe attacks. Your build is a total one trick pony. It’s also selfish as well, no Banner to revive, no Bow to give might stacks. Any Warrior build can throw on Rampage and look effective, especially with the buff.

The biggest no-no for me is that your stability uptime is horrible. You got Last Stand which has a huge ICD and that’s it. You got 2 more stun breaks but those won’t stop you from being chained. Even Shoutbow is more reliable on the stomping aspect.

You’re builds are all basically dueling builds, all about you, very little for the team. Before you say “well mah CC” as I said before Engi can do CC juuussst fine and pulls/pushes are more valuable, especially fi you want to get someone out of the cap point instead of stomping.

Your builds you’ve been touting show off nothing that another spec cannot do better. End of story.

Burr, I think there’s some great info in these theory craft threads. I’ve been reading them consistently and I imagine a lot of new players have taken away a lot of stuff they can use in upping their game as well. At the end of the day I think that’s the kind of impact you want to have on the forums – people getting better at the game.

Maybe Stronghold will help you out Burr.

Meanwhile, just say goodbye to PvP entirely and just have fun only.

Zagerus.8675:

Burr, I think there’s some great info in these theory craft threads. I’ve been reading them consistently and I imagine a lot of new players have taken away a lot of stuff they can use in upping their game as well. At the end of the day I think that’s the kind of impact you want to have on the forums – people getting better at the game.

Thank you. I do still plan to continue to make such threads, but I was starting to feel that the builds I was running in Ranked was not benefiting my team as much as they could be. I decided that my personal enjoyment was not worth more than those of the other 4 players.

Cygnus.6903:

Maybe Stronghold will help you out Burr.

Meanwhile, just say goodbye to PvP entirely and just have fun only.

I do hope that it gives us more options. Since killing NPCs seems to be more important in this mode builds that focus on mobility and quick kill times might be more viable.

I’m actually managing to find enjoyment in Shoutbow only because I think I’m fairly good at it. It can be good to stop trying to be a DPS like teef and just focus on keeping everyone eles alive while still doing decent damage. Hitting a Final Thrust for the down is always enjoyable. I also splurged and got myself the Shadow Longbow, and I’m now broke.

I didn’t think Black Truth could post without trying to plug his streams, learn something new every day,

BlackTruth.6813:

By stating “I submit” you may as well have said you’re not good enough in all honesty.

Not that there’s anything wrong with that considering not many people can handle completely melee specs on Warrior.

Better luck next time I guess. Some people are fated to stagnate and some people are fated to evolve, pretty much all there is to it.

This guy’s posts are either a massive troll, or he is actively trying to kill off Warriors from all viability from simply ‘accepting’ how things are now and attempting to shove his horrid builds and plays into our faces.

I laugh either way, but I rather not have new warriors be tainted trying to run bad builds in any live PvP setting. Well, at least as far as I can tell he hasn’t made all the troll builds yet.

BurrTheKing.8571:

I’m actually managing to find enjoyment in Shoutbow

No harm then.

ofc you’ve to take longbow if you wanna play competitive, but there’s also plenty fun good builds if you wanna chill in hotjoin/1v1/ranked etc.

Honestly, I really like a lot of the discussion on this forum; though it would be great if you guys could go a little easier on each other.

Burr, I liked your non-Longbow thread and it sparked a lot of good ideas and conversation. Not finding the answer you wanted isn’t a disaster; keep starting the conversations and good things will come from them.

you dont have to run cele s/w bow for shout heal. valk gives you more toughness, power, and crit dmg while still having 2k shouts. i run full shouts with hammer and something else (most often mace/mace or axe/shield). it doesn’t stack as much might, but it has higher base power, and its much better at stunlocking people in a team fight. no warhorn also means four shouts, so the support is still great.

SpiritSpeakerOfHoelbrak.3980:

BlackTruth.6813:

By stating “I submit” you may as well have said you’re not good enough in all honesty.

Not that there’s anything wrong with that considering not many people can handle completely melee specs on Warrior.

Better luck next time I guess. Some people are fated to stagnate and some people are fated to evolve, pretty much all there is to it.

Look Black, thinly veiled insults won’t get you more subscribers on your twitch channel. Learning to be better at a computer game is easy. Maybe it’s time to work on being a better person. I don’t believe for one moment that you’re a “kitten human being” as you state on your twitch channel.

I’m not perfect and have fallen into this behavior myself at times. Just saying you’ll do far more for yourself and the warrior community by not falling into the habit of trolling people.

Maybe put that experience to good use rather than posting petty comments that serve to self inflate the ego.

This is a rare post.

The other day i got the opportunity to have a dueling session with a very good shoutbow, actually the only one who has completely dominated me. So far i had been skeptical about the whole build, but when it is played correctly, then it can pump out some rediculus damage and support.

I have actually the opposite burr, i am thinking about hanging up the longbow and going full out melee. Right now, testing theories with gs+a/sh and quickness without frenzy (last chance and sig of rage). Prelimiary testing has had decent results.

Assassin X.8573:

The other day i got the opportunity to have a dueling session with a very good shoutbow, actually the only one who has completely dominated me. So far i had been skeptical about the whole build, but when it is played correctly, then it can pump out some rediculus damage and support.

I have actually the opposite burr, i am thinking about hanging up the longbow and going full out melee. Right now, testing theories with gs+a/sh and quickness without frenzy (last chance and sig of rage). Prelimiary testing has had decent results.

The problem with a set like that, I always end up comparing my DPS to S/D or D/P teef or MediGuard and come to the conclusion that it isn’t as good. Teef allows you to teleport right to your target and immob them long enough to get hits in. When it comes to Axe/GS Wars you sadly lack that advantage. The DPS on teef is also just nuts and has boon stripping/sharing capabilities.

Axe/GS just seems selfish no matter how you run it. At least with GS/LB you are giving your team a combo field and might. The AoE on LB is also always useful. I WISH that Axe/GS was viable, but when I compare it to the other zerk specs it doesn’t seem to match up. Power Necro is also selfish, but it can deal SO MUCH damage that I can understand why you could want it on your team.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Assassin X.8573:

The other day i got the opportunity to have a dueling session with a very good shoutbow, actually the only one who has completely dominated me. So far i had been skeptical about the whole build, but when it is played correctly, then it can pump out some rediculus damage and support.

I have actually the opposite burr, i am thinking about hanging up the longbow and going full out melee. Right now, testing theories with gs+a/sh and quickness without frenzy (last chance and sig of rage). Prelimiary testing has had decent results.

The problem with a set like that, I always end up comparing my DPS to S/D or D/P teef or MediGuard and come to the conclusion that it isn’t as good. Teef allows you to teleport right to your target and immob them long enough to get hits in. When it comes to Axe/GS Wars you sadly lack that advantage. The DPS on teef is also just nuts and has boon stripping/sharing capabilities.

Axe/GS just seems selfish no matter how you run it. At least with GS/LB you are giving your team a combo field and might. The AoE on LB is also always useful. I WISH that Axe/GS was viable, but when I compare it to the other zerk specs it doesn’t seem to match up. Power Necro is also selfish, but it can deal SO MUCH damage that I can understand why you could want it on your team.

Thats true, it is avery selfish builld lol.

Assassin X.8573:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Assassin X.8573:

The other day i got the opportunity to have a dueling session with a very good shoutbow, actually the only one who has completely dominated me. So far i had been skeptical about the whole build, but when it is played correctly, then it can pump out some rediculus damage and support.

I have actually the opposite burr, i am thinking about hanging up the longbow and going full out melee. Right now, testing theories with gs+a/sh and quickness without frenzy (last chance and sig of rage). Prelimiary testing has had decent results.

The problem with a set like that, I always end up comparing my DPS to S/D or D/P teef or MediGuard and come to the conclusion that it isn’t as good. Teef allows you to teleport right to your target and immob them long enough to get hits in. When it comes to Axe/GS Wars you sadly lack that advantage. The DPS on teef is also just nuts and has boon stripping/sharing capabilities.

Axe/GS just seems selfish no matter how you run it. At least with GS/LB you are giving your team a combo field and might. The AoE on LB is also always useful. I WISH that Axe/GS was viable, but when I compare it to the other zerk specs it doesn’t seem to match up. Power Necro is also selfish, but it can deal SO MUCH damage that I can understand why you could want it on your team.

Thats true, it is avery selfish builld lol.

Before players learned how to dodge we used to be able to play selfishly because Frenzy + 100b was a thing, but now even on full glass our DPS is just “OK.” I would say Hambow is still viable because while its DPS is just decent unless you chain an entire Hammer combo you’re still giving CC and might stacking.

I don’t think you have to be super support on everything, you just got to bring SOMETHING to the team besides just pure killing power as a Warrior.

I hate to say it, but I sort of agree. Every time I think of a decent non-lb build, and try it out, I realize that while it’s semi-viable, one of the other classes can fill that exact niche, and either have superior dps, mobility, sustain, etc.

It’s not that Warriors are BAD, it’s just that for all the major sPvP roles, someone else can do the job better.

Of course, for WvW zerging, there’s nothing quite like a soldier war carrying a hammer.

Wow I just couldn’t ignore this learn to play really ..

saying you got to take longbow becouse it does this and that…

this is a team based game, i do my build, use my weapons according to the team…. lucky the game allow you to constantly change builds freely…. why would you do 1 thing…

if you’re trying to find “the best” you’re in the wrong game.

i’ll give you example
in some situation my team need CC, i’ll go hammer, sword for the CC… longbow not needed here.
in some situation I go mace/shield longsword, and fill the role of the roamer / thiefs
and hell my guild says i’m doing a better job then thiefs.
in some situation i go axe longbow and keep the close point..

there so many ways to play you can’t just do one… if you do… no offense and with all the respect you sux.

warriors are fun, and this is enough you can find ways to play, if you don’t spend that time on forum instead.

Zirken.5184:

Wow I just couldn’t ignore this learn to play really ..

saying you got to take longbow becouse it does this and that…

this is a team based game, i do my build, use my weapons according to the team…. lucky the game allow you to constantly change builds freely…. why would you do 1 thing…

if you’re trying to find “the best” you’re in the wrong game.

i’ll give you example
in some situation my team need CC, i’ll go hammer, sword for the CC… longbow not needed here.
in some situation I go mace/shield longsword, and fill the role of the roamer / thiefs
and hell my guild says i’m doing a better job then thiefs.
in some situation i go axe longbow and keep the close point..

there so many ways to play you can’t just do one… if you do… no offense and with all the respect you sux.

warriors are fun, and this is enough you can find ways to play, if you don’t spend that time on forum instead.

The guy who made this topic calls my tech (What high skill cap Warrior looks like) unimpressive, doesn’t have any form of competitive play presence, never gave abjured a fight because probably too scared to “improve.” Clearly he feels like he can do better even though he complains on the forums 24/7 instead of improving.

http://www.twitch.tv/blacktruth009/c/6259903
http://www.twitch.tv/blacktruth009/c/6152446
http://www.twitch.tv/blacktruth009/c/6269321

Zirken and BlackTruth:
Whats with the smear campaign here? If you disagree, state your reasons, break down your opponents points, and explain why you feel their reasoning flawed. Then present a logical counter-argument.

All I see is lots of “lololol l2p!” and “vague anecdotal story that i can do X and anyone who disagrees is bad!” making you appear to be little more than common internet trolls. This is not a ‘jab’ at you, this is simply how the situation looks from my perspective.

Well that trended didn’t last long guess it was the expection to prove the rule.

Zirken.5184:

Wow I just couldn’t ignore this learn to play really ..

saying you got to take longbow becouse it does this and that…

this is a team based game, i do my build, use my weapons according to the team…. lucky the game allow you to constantly change builds freely…. why would you do 1 thing…

if you’re trying to find “the best” you’re in the wrong game.

i’ll give you example
in some situation my team need CC, i’ll go hammer, sword for the CC… longbow not needed here.
in some situation I go mace/shield longsword, and fill the role of the roamer / thiefs
and hell my guild says i’m doing a better job then thiefs.
in some situation i go axe longbow and keep the close point..

there so many ways to play you can’t just do one… if you do… no offense and with all the respect you sux.

warriors are fun, and this is enough you can find ways to play, if you don’t spend that time on forum instead.

There’s about a mile-high difference between you and what Burr was saying way above you.

The point wasn’t that a Warrior couldn’t just go build himself according to what the team needs, it is that what the Warrior attempts to do while not using a Longbow for that intended role, is absurdly without any stretch of imagination or thought less useful than another profession.

In terms of TPvP, the Warrior who brings CC will bring a hammer, and there is an option to run perhaps Mace/Sh rather than the LB, although unlike a thief or mesmer a Warrior can’t just Strip Boons so he can actually deal with Stability properly. Running a sword just to keep up the cripple does not a CC-machine make.

The roaming Warrior, with your example of assumed great warrior play, isn’t actually bad. It is around Mid-tier, but I will say this because thieves should absolutely wreck this role so much harder than, pretty much the other professions. I can’t even begin to imagine what your guild ran into in the thieves department, but there are bad players across all professions.

And…your Axe LB is kind of a moot point, you didn’t read the OP here. I won’t spoil it for you.

That being said, I think it might be more helpful for those not understanding to have a numerical representation.

Warrior running LB in his builds: 10/10, he’s got a lot of viable builds.
Warrior NOT running LB in his builds: 4.5/10, he doesn’t have a lot of options, the only viable builds are Mid-Tier at best but a serious TPvP comp will run the proper professions to play those roles. If they can’t get a proper profession, the Warrior is one option of a few, meaning that Mace-Sh/GS Warrior still might not get picked as the DD Ele is chosen instead.

We aren’t even average in PvP without a Longbow in terms of our viability, THAT is the issue, it isn’t even a debate at this point.