Guild Wars 2

Redscope.6215:

If you have adrenaline you’re not using, and you don’t have traits slotted for passive benefits of adrenaline, you have to concede that you forego (or “give up”) those benefits. Its a simple fact.

And that was your point, you can build to not give up anything for using adrenaline. You could, but you’d have to be able to use your adrenaline effectively every time it reached stage 1. That’s not possible.

And how is it not possible? Most burst skills don’t increase damage per adrenal stage anyway, but you can build to get side benefits for using said skills. And no matter how you twist it, the game will always be give and take. Sit on adrenaline and never use it means you ‘give up’ the use of two viable skills; build for adrenaline benefit and only use burst at special moments means you ‘give up’ the bonuses you built for for a moment of burst; etc.

No one’s attacking the validity of saving bursts for certain moments, you just decided to defend that point on your own while straying away from the point being made which was ‘you can get a free dodge with burst skills and you have two of them and you can swap within 5 seconds for it’.

The fact that you’ve actually typed out “ppssh” nearly proves you’re not arguing facts, you’re just mad. All four attunements do indeed have 4 main purposes, but they do not work against each other at all. All fights with all classes run the gambit of every scenario. The ability of the elementalist to swap to a particular attunement in order to best fit that scenario, regardless of weapon chosen, is a perk no other class has. That’s why he’s considered the “Jack of all Trades” class…although right now he’s more like the “King of all Trades” class.

I’m not mad, I’m just not going to argue with you about what elementalist is or isn’t. All you’re trying to do is pin your inability on the mechanics of another profession either in hopes they get nerfed or for some sort of pity buff to warrior. Do. Not. Care. I’d be arguing all week with nubs doing the same thing if I bothered.

Now bring up OP mesmer and thief some more, I’m sure it’ll strengthen your point. /sarcasm

I don’t get the complaining, sure if you’re playing glass cannon warrior you don’t have condition removal. I’ve been running Shouts and have plenty of sustain and condition removal. If you refuse to change from 100% Berserkers GS then you’re not going to get condition removal and sustain.

NinjaSonic.1392:

I don’t get the complaining, sure if you’re playing glass cannon warrior you don’t have condition removal. I’ve been running Shouts and have plenty of sustain and condition removal. If you refuse to change from 100% Berserkers GS then you’re not going to get condition removal and sustain.

Shout build is horrendous in PvP and you’ll get instantly and completely squashed by any team worth a crap.

Also, just to expand a bit, warriors can’t bunker in PvP. Not enough regen, not enough healing, no protection, and toughness means almost nothing.

Condition builds are also useless cause warriors can’t build them up fast enough to sustain any sort of damage cause EVERY class can easily remove all the warriors conditions before they get to any decent damaging level.

CC builds are great but add one guardian with “Stand Your Ground!” on the other team and you’re now utterly useless.

This leaves high damage, which we could do before with “berserker” gear you said, making me think you don’t realize this is an sPvP focused topic, but now that using frenzy without also wasting endure pain is a death sentence we cannot do that either. We’ll be dropped before we can get off any decent amount of damage.

THAT’S why STRUCTURED PLAYER VS PLAYER warriors are complaining.

Adrenaline is one of the most useful things a warrior can have. What about regenning 360-380 hp per 2-3 secs because of adrenaline due to toughness trait line? I agree though that it seems besides the extra skills, adrenaline serves little purpose in extra damage and what not. Just Hp.

HARRELSONNN.4872:

Adrenaline is one of the most useful things a warrior can have. What about regenning 360-380 hp per 2-3 secs because of adrenaline due to toughness trait line? I agree though that it seems besides the extra skills, adrenaline serves little purpose in extra damage and what not. Just Hp.

? Berserker’s power is one of the most popular traits to take +12% damage and +12% critical chance I would call a big deal. There isn’t alot of defensive based adrenaline traits outside of building momentum and adrenal health. Maybe adding some more defensive minded trats in the defense line or the tactics line would be good.

The might on revive and the +10% revive speed aren’t to hot and I honestly can’t see them being better they should just be removed and something else placed in there. Or keep them and have them replace the 10% chance to get swiftness (terrible terrible trait) trait so people have options. I don’t think anyone takes that trait. Is there some cooldown on that thing? Swiftness isnt something we have a problem getting really.

Warrior only have 3 real problems:

1) Burst Mechanic: Which totally blows, making the class real mechanic useless, this as a whole makes the warrior stand where he stands today as anything related to adrenaline is useless “Taking aside the +9% damage/crit” but seriously I don’t think holding on to adrenaline was the devs idea when they made warriors.

2) Lack of a real defensive ability, sure we get hella hp, but what good is it when things like vulnerability and the like are around to destroy that hard defense. Unlike most classes we lack anything that allows us to build bunkers, sure we got the highest hp, but we cannot heal it back effectively “Even with shouts” and have no protection or talents that reduce incoming damage by X%, so we relay only on toughness, which is somewhere around useless.

3) Lack of mobility/predictability: Let’s face it, warriors have the most predictable moves in the game, we aren’t flashy and thus if you see a hammer warrior you know what he is going to do, same with GS and the like, also since our skills work rather realistically this makes many of them glitch and make us even more handicapped. Let’s take the GS close in skills:

Guardian > Jumps spins in the air and hits his target, imo without error as far as I can tell from using my guardian. Causing blind + moderate damage.

Ranger: Jumps for a really long distance, eagle animation lalala, moderate/low damage never seen it miss on my ranger either.

Warrior: Runs to the enemy, usually passing by them, around em, hitting the air, running the wrong direction or even continue to run against the enemy with no animation cancel, can hit for high damage but the animation is so long and glitched is usually not worth it.

Healing shouts builds and healing/ enlarge buff banners are awesome imo, problem is banners can be taken away or the area of effect left behind in combat thus making em useless and they have REALLY long cool downs. Specially the elite one. Our signets are somewhere between useless and low end pve useful only and physical utilities lack better animations. So if they fixed our animations and buffed the juggernaut elite I say warriors could have a better place in Tpvp. As they can be really strong CC oriented/buff oriented chars.

Lyonell.1753:

Warrior only have 3 real problems:

1) Burst Mechanic: Which totally blows, making the class real mechanic useless, this as a whole makes the warrior stand where he stands today as anything related to adrenaline is useless “Taking aside the +9% damage/crit” but seriously I don’t think holding on to adrenaline was the devs idea when they made warriors.

2) Lack of a real defensive ability, sure we get hella hp, but what good is it when things like vulnerability and the like are around to destroy that hard defense. Unlike most classes we lack anything that allows us to build bunkers, sure we got the highest hp, but we cannot heal it back effectively “Even with shouts” and have no protection or talents that reduce incoming damage by X%, so we relay only on toughness, which is somewhere around useless.

3) Lack of mobility/predictability: Let’s face it, warriors have the most predictable moves in the game, we aren’t flashy and thus if you see a hammer warrior you know what he is going to do, same with GS and the like, also since our skills work rather realistically this makes many of them glitch and make us even more handicapped. Let’s take the GS close in skills:

Guardian > Jumps spins in the air and hits his target, imo without error as far as I can tell from using my guardian. Causing blind + moderate damage.

Ranger: Jumps for a really long distance, eagle animation lalala, moderate/low damage never seen it miss on my ranger either.

Warrior: Runs to the enemy, usually passing by them, around em, hitting the air, running the wrong direction or even continue to run against the enemy with no animation cancel, can hit for high damage but the animation is so long and glitched is usually not worth it.

Healing shouts builds and healing/ enlarge buff banners are awesome imo, problem is banners can be taken away or the area of effect left behind in combat thus making em useless and they have REALLY long cool downs. Specially the elite one. Our signets are somewhere between useless and low end pve useful only and physical utilities lack better animations. So if they fixed our animations and buffed the juggernaut elite I say warriors could have a better place in Tpvp. As they can be really strong CC oriented/buff oriented chars.

You listed more then 3 problems, and you can add condition removal to the list as well, our traits provide no condition removal. That is combined with no protection/crappy healing.

Redscope.6215:

Leo G.4501:

I guess you’re trying to talk to me as if you’re some Warrior sage?

If explaining how foregone opportunity costs work is sage-like, I guess so…

Leo G.4501:

Just because there are traits for having Adrenaline doesn’t mean they are the only traits nor that you give up anything for using your skills so you really miss the point I was even trying to make.

If you have adrenaline you’re not using, and you don’t have traits slotted for passive benefits of adrenaline, you have to concede that you forego (or “give up”) those benefits. Its a simple fact.

And that was your point, you can build to not give up anything for using adrenaline. You could, but you’d have to be able to use your adrenaline effectively every time it reached stage 1. That’s not possible.

Leo G.4501:

And then you try to tell me about elementalist? Ppssh, 4 sets of powerful skills? Whatever…dismiss that those 4 sets of skills have individually different purposes so it’s not like having 2-3 Hundred Blade type of skills. Try going to the elementalists and asking exactly how their rotations work rather than figuring they have 4 sets of OP skills.

The fact that you’ve actually typed out “ppssh” nearly proves you’re not arguing facts, you’re just mad. All four attunements do indeed have 4 main purposes, but they do not work against each other at all. All fights with all classes run the gambit of every scenario. The ability of the elementalist to swap to a particular attunement in order to best fit that scenario, regardless of weapon chosen, is a perk no other class has. That’s why he’s considered the “Jack of all Trades” class…although right now he’s more like the “King of all Trades” class.

Your “facts” are that Elementalists are OP and king of all scenarios with all weapons? I’m really glad Elementalist abilities have no scaling or tradeoffs relative to any other class to pay for the benefit of changing attunements albeit with one weapon. #livinginthebubble

Your right brain is generating the same thing you’re claiming of him. Ironic but commonplace and unfortunately it’s to be expected.

Daecollo.9578:

Lyonell.1753:

Warrior only have 3 real problems:

1) Burst Mechanic: Which totally blows, making the class real mechanic useless, this as a whole makes the warrior stand where he stands today as anything related to adrenaline is useless “Taking aside the +9% damage/crit” but seriously I don’t think holding on to adrenaline was the devs idea when they made warriors.

2) Lack of a real defensive ability, sure we get hella hp, but what good is it when things like vulnerability and the like are around to destroy that hard defense. Unlike most classes we lack anything that allows us to build bunkers, sure we got the highest hp, but we cannot heal it back effectively “Even with shouts” and have no protection or talents that reduce incoming damage by X%, so we relay only on toughness, which is somewhere around useless.

3) Lack of mobility/predictability: Let’s face it, warriors have the most predictable moves in the game, we aren’t flashy and thus if you see a hammer warrior you know what he is going to do, same with GS and the like, also since our skills work rather realistically this makes many of them glitch and make us even more handicapped. Let’s take the GS close in skills:

Guardian > Jumps spins in the air and hits his target, imo without error as far as I can tell from using my guardian. Causing blind + moderate damage.

Ranger: Jumps for a really long distance, eagle animation lalala, moderate/low damage never seen it miss on my ranger either.

Warrior: Runs to the enemy, usually passing by them, around em, hitting the air, running the wrong direction or even continue to run against the enemy with no animation cancel, can hit for high damage but the animation is so long and glitched is usually not worth it.

Healing shouts builds and healing/ enlarge buff banners are awesome imo, problem is banners can be taken away or the area of effect left behind in combat thus making em useless and they have REALLY long cool downs. Specially the elite one. Our signets are somewhere between useless and low end pve useful only and physical utilities lack better animations. So if they fixed our animations and buffed the juggernaut elite I say warriors could have a better place in Tpvp. As they can be really strong CC oriented/buff oriented chars.

You listed more then 3 problems, and you can add condition removal to the list as well, our traits provide no condition removal. That is combined with no protection/crappy healing.

So what is the trade-off you are asking for then? Because if they fix everything you ask for it seems like you’re an upgraded version of a guardian.

You want better burst, defense, mobility, condition removal and protection/healing boons… It sounds like you just want a guardian with 18k+ health and very little weaknesses.

In other words, you can’t have it all.

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

So what is the trade-off you are asking for then? Because if they fix everything you ask for it seems like you’re an upgraded version of a guardian.

You want better burst, defense, mobility, condition removal and protection/healing boons… It sounds like you just want a guardian with 18k+ health and very little weaknesses.

In other words, you can’t have it all.

Why does everyone always assume warriors “want it all” with no trade off? No one ever seriously says they “want it all” in the same build at once……

What he’s saying, and I know this cause it’s obvious since I and most other warriors feel the same way, is that he wants the ability to actually do all that in some build or other. Right now we CAN’T DO ANY OF THAT at all in any build what-so-ever in sPvP. He doesn’t want to be able to do all of that at once but instead to have the option to be able to do each of those things in some way in some build.

EDIT: Yes I know there are “shout warriors” that can do good condition removal but you sacrifice EVERYTHING else important to sPvP just to do it, making it kind of pointless to bother. Not saying it needs to be buffed, cause it’s amazing in PvE and WvW, just that there should be some other way at all to remove conditions like almost every other class can inherently do in every build.

Vicarious.3047:

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

So what is the trade-off you are asking for then? Because if they fix everything you ask for it seems like you’re an upgraded version of a guardian.

You want better burst, defense, mobility, condition removal and protection/healing boons... It sounds like you just want a guardian with 18k+ health and very little weaknesses.

In other words, you can’t have it all.

Why does everyone always assume warriors "want it all" with no trade off? No one ever seriously says they "want it all" in the same build at once......

What he’s saying, and I know this cause it’s obvious since I and most other warriors feel the same way, is that he wants the ability to actually do all that in some build or other. Right now we CAN’T DO ANY OF THAT at all in any build what-so-ever in sPvP. He doesn’t want to be able to do all of that at once but instead to have the option to be able to do each of those things in some way in some build.

EDIT: Yes I know there are "shout warriors" that can do good condition removal but you sacrifice EVERYTHING else important to sPvP just to do it, making it kind of pointless to bother. Not saying it needs to be buffed, cause it’s amazing in PvE and WvW, just that there should be some other way at all to remove conditions like almost every other class can inherently do in every build.

So let me understand this correctly. You want the options to do all of those things but not all of them at once. How is that even possible? If you implement that through specific utilities and traits, how is it not possible to have it all? Yes, this will take a really in-depth look on how you can explain this but giving you strong options for everything and allow you to choose what to pick doesn’t always work.

I can’t have boons on my guardian and still go with consecrations. I can’t have super burst while keeping high uptime on protection without losing something. There obviously is a give and take and I understand where you’re coming from when wanting the option to choose like the elementalist does but warriors just can’t. They are given heavy armor (which honestly means jackkitten) and high base health designed for offense for a reason. That’s what the dev’s were shooting for. If they gave options for defense you might as well have merged guardians and warriors together and balanced it more evenly.

They wanted to separate the two because the game isn’t based around 1v1.

Warrior - Offensive
Guardian - Defensive/Support

Sure the warrior can run shouts for cond removal + burst heals but it’s not his specialty but they do give you the option.

The guardian can go more offensive but he will have to sacrifice a lot of defense and then he becomes a glass cannon with 10k health.

Each class has their strengths and weaknesses. Well with the exception of the ele but we’ll wait and see what happens...

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

So let me understand this correctly. You want the options to do all of those things but not all of them at once. How is that even possible? If you implement that through specific utilities and traits, how is it not possible to have it all? Yes, this will take a really in-depth look on how you can explain this but giving you strong options for everything and allow you to choose what to pick doesn’t always work.

I can’t have boons on my guardian and still go with consecrations. I can’t have super burst while keeping high uptime on protection without losing something. There obviously is a give and take and I understand where you’re coming from when wanting the option to choose like the elementalist does but warriors just can’t. They are given heavy armor (which honestly means jackkitten) and high base health designed for offense for a reason. That’s what the dev’s were shooting for. If they gave options for defense you might as well have merged guardians and warriors together and balanced it more evenly.

Omfg….. no……

Is it seriously THAT hard of a concept to understand?

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

I can’t have boons on my guardian and still go with consecrations. I can’t have super burst while keeping high uptime on protection without losing something.

That, we want THAT!

Warriors can’t even choose between options atm, we’ve been pigeon holed into specific roles simply cause every other class does everything better then our very few realistic options.

We want to be able to say “I’ll sacrifice my damage output to be more tanky” while actually becoming tanky, which we can’t effectively do atm. Or even “I’ll sacrifice some stability options to get more condition removal,” which we also can;t do without FULLY respeccing into a build specifically built JUST for condition removal that is only even with every other class.

etc.

And eles are simply OP as crap and need a major nerf ASAP, nothing more to that lol

Vicarious.3047:

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

So let me understand this correctly. You want the options to do all of those things but not all of them at once. How is that even possible? If you implement that through specific utilities and traits, how is it not possible to have it all? Yes, this will take a really in-depth look on how you can explain this but giving you strong options for everything and allow you to choose what to pick doesn’t always work.

I can’t have boons on my guardian and still go with consecrations. I can’t have super burst while keeping high uptime on protection without losing something. There obviously is a give and take and I understand where you’re coming from when wanting the option to choose like the elementalist does but warriors just can’t. They are given heavy armor (which honestly means jackkitten) and high base health designed for offense for a reason. That’s what the dev’s were shooting for. If they gave options for defense you might as well have merged guardians and warriors together and balanced it more evenly.

Omfg..... no......

Is it seriously THAT hard of a concept to understand?

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

I can’t have boons on my guardian and still go with consecrations. I can’t have super burst while keeping high uptime on protection without losing something.

That, we want THAT!

Warriors can’t even choose between options atm, we’ve been pigeon holed into specific roles simply cause every other class does everything better then our very few realistic options.

We want to be able to say "I’ll sacrifice my damage output to be more tanky" while actually becoming tanky, which we can’t effectively do atm. Or even "I’ll sacrifice some stability options to get more condition removal," which we also can;t do without FULLY respeccing into a build specifically built JUST for condition removal that is only even with every other class.

etc.

And eles are simply OP as crap and need a major nerf ASAP, nothing more to that lol

Trust me. I understand a class being pigeonholed into a play style. For guardian survivability you need to either have Monk’s Focus or Altruistic Healing. Besides the Valor tree increasing toughness by 300 and crit damage by 30%, it’s just too good to give up. Most builds in Spvp or WvW will revolve around that one tree. You’ll have to forgive me because I barely play any spvp/tpvp as I WvW mostly, but I ran more of a bunker build on my warrior using hammer/m+sh and banners and watch a point with another class.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNAS5ejgOBwBPGP4QCEkCsgLOFUCVB7I9IMGw1A;TsAA1CqoCyEkIIbQugkBtKYUx+DA

There is some work to be done on the warriors but giving them strong options for everything isn’t a very good solution because warriors were built for specific role. Offense. Kill or be killed. But they didn’t quite fix Frenzy with the global nerf which affected the warrior’s burst capabilities.

My warrior is a GC hammer spec for WvW. High damage output, CC, and I use GS to get around since it’s the most mobile (I also swap to axe/mace too).

At least we can agree Ele’s need some balancing.

I play hammer+LB cleansing shouts in WvW.

It’s a very powerful and well rounded build that I have a lot of fun playing.

That being said it’s horrendous in s/tPvP. Anyone using blinds will COMPLETELY nullify your hammer CC and anyone with stability will be all but immune to your easily predicted moves (or even just one guardian using SYG will nullify hammer CC on a full team scale, so you can’t simply switch targets :P)

And as I’ve said before shouts just don’t do enough fast enough in s/tPvP, but I still don’t think they need any sort of buff cause they are good in larger scaled content.

Also, if as a warrior I could put 30 points into a tree and get anything I needed for either an offensive or defensive build I’d be perfectly happy lol

Vicarious.3047:

I play hammer+LB cleansing shouts in WvW.

It’s a very powerful and well rounded build that I have a lot of fun playing.

That being said it’s horrendous in s/tPvP. Anyone using blinds will COMPLETELY nullify your hammer CC and anyone with stability will be all but immune to your easily predicted moves (or even just one guardian using SYG will nullify hammer CC on a full team scale, so you can’t simply switch targets :P)

And as I’ve said before shouts just don’t do enough fast enough in s/tPvP, but I still don’t think they need any sort of buff cause they are good in larger scaled content.

Also, if as a warrior I could put 30 points into a tree and get anything I needed for either an offensive or defensive build I’d be perfectly happy lol

I don’t see why you can’t go 30 into defense many people do and some of the traits there aren’t bad and there are offensive minded traits and defensive minded traits in that tree. Discipline isnt to bad to go 30 in the most popular choices are mobile strikes, signet mastery, and heightened focus all while adding crit damage.

Going 30 into any of the trees isn’t optimal dps wise but I think that has more to do with how warriors are designed.

Lets look at thief the major +% damage traits are usually 25-30 pts traits most are 25 pts traits. Critical strikes tree gets used in most burst builds because executioner is to good not to have the rest of the traits in the Critical strikes tree are kind of meh. Deadly arts gets mugged which is the king trait in that tree at 10 pts in and can give you 4k-6k damage on its own but that is burst and not sustained. We can easily get to +25% damage on hammer going 20 pts into defense.

What +22% damage on GS just need 20 pts in strength, You can get +18% from 10 in strength and 10 in tactics on any weapon set. Some may see this as a curse to warriors but I am sure thieves would love it if they where set up like that. The king tree for thieves is Shadow Arts defensive tree, with just the 30 pts trait of executioner as a close second.

Reason why I bring this up is you stated that you want to be able to go 30 pts in for offense and defense well you don’t have to go 30 pts into any tree for warrior to get good offensive returns if you don’t want. So offensively I don’t think we really need anymore love on traits.

Defensively we could use some love on traits. If anything offensively that needs love its weapon skills bugs like rush (in concept its awesome its just dangerous to use offensively) or some of the offensive utilities could use love like, fear me, bola’s, stomp. frenzy.

There are a few classes right now pigeon holed to invest into 1 tree at a 20-30 pts investment for a good build. Not just warriors I don’t feel like warriors have a tree that is 30 pts mandatory for offense or defense. I wouldnt call that bad just needs some really awesome defensive traits there are a few like last stand but it isnt mandatory because you can just run balance stance so it can seem redundant and appear less desirable.

If you took for example desperate power and bumped that up to say 30-40% HP at 15-20% more damage that would make it alot more desirable. At 25% your pretty much dead. You could actually guage your 30-40% Hp pop endure pain to do some nasy damage. That makes it a good defensive and offensive trait.

Honestly, the problem with Warrior is the fact that all the good traits are tied to one weapon for one.

Regeneration for Shields.
Protection for Hammers.
Fury for Greatswords.
Might for Axes.

why are people that have no idea how a war works posting here trying to say wars aren’t underpowered… I play a ton of tpvp and atm I’m seeing people get raged at for even rolling warrior. Btw I can keep retal up on my guard and spam “LOL” while autoattacking and dodging once in a while so the warrior dies… I honestly feel bad for warriors at this point

they’re fantastic for pve content and even wvw but for spvp… not so much