Guild Wars 2

…but it needs a little more love from the devs.
Making Hammer Shock a mobile skill is a strong step in the right direction, but it still comes out as less attractive than Axe/Warhorn when I’m looking to choose my main weapon combo.

For a little background, I mostly play PvE open world with the occasional dungeon and some WvW thrown in. My favoured build for the longest time has been 20/0/20/30/0, with a focus on healing shouts and warhorn abilities. And the trait Quick Breathing is the main reason hammer can’t compete with this combination.
With Quick Breathing, I have some of the best condition management in the game, especially when combined with Vigorous Shouts and “Shake it off!” for condition removal with a strong heal.
Converting conditions to boons is just ridiculously useful.
On top of that, Charge combines unparalleled mobility and root removal with a constant speed buff when combined with Signet of Rage.

Warhorn is just too valuable to ignore, and hammer doesn’t offer enough of an alternative. Even its DPS seems less consistent than a main-hand axe. And let’s not forget, I can take advantage of 2 sigils when using axe & warhorn.

I’m trying to think of ways to make hammer a more attractive prospect, but other than making it fully mobile by also allowing movement during activation of Staggering Blow, I’m struggling.
Maybe changing the Disabled requirement on Merciless Hammer to Weakness?

Does anyone else feel the same, and if so, do you have some more recommendations?

I love the hammer too. And I agree the change to hammer shock was awesome! Although part of the problem with making it a damage oriented weapon is that it’s main trait is 20 deep in the defense line. The only other trait that seems to synergize with hammer skill are unsuspecting foe (lets face it, with the slow swing speed of a hammer you are probably only getting one MAYBE TWO attacks in after an Earthshaker) and distracting strikes. Which is an intriguing match for hammer, seeing as how we have 3 abilities to intterupt in hammer. But to make the confusion deal more damage we need condition damage, not something you gear for when using a hammer…

Another thing is that the main 3 attack combo does not add any condition/effect. Every other weapon we have adds bleed, weakness, uses multiple attacks (like axe/longbow) vunrability, etc. In guild wars 1 there used to be a hammer ability called Belly Smash with a simmilar animation that would inflict blindess. would be nice!

All and all I think it’s widly understood that the hammer is a weapon that compliments support/controll builds best. Unless someone cares to post a build that proves me wrong.

The damage trait is also rather iffy.

You’re really not hitting disabled targets that often.

Spinebreaker, for example, hardly knocks the enemy down long enough for you to even get one hit in on them as they are disabled.

I do actually spec distracting strikes, but you’re right, with no investment in Condition Damage and the speed at which the stacks deplete, you usually only get one underpowered proc out of it before the confusion runs out. Better than the other options in that traitline when building for hammer, sure, but still not exactly thrilling.

@Oglaf:
I heartily agree about Backbreaker, especially when it’s actually worse than it was in the first game, where you could get the KD on it as high as 4 seconds. What’s even more galling is when mobs use it on you and you’re down for as much as 8 seconds!

Compare it to the Mace Trait:

20% more damage against targets afflicted with Weakness.

1 on Mace pretty much guarantees that they are afflicted by it 24/7!

That and GS gets damage benefits from both Slashing Power and Forceful Greatsword.
Maybe Merciless Hammer or Cull the Weak or even both should increase the length of disables? That plays more to the hammer’s control strengths.

I haven’t tested, but I believe the stun on Earthshaker applies before the damage. Anecdotally, I only really ever remember it critting, and with ~45% char sheet crit along with Unsuspecting Foes, that about adds up. If that’s the case, then the 25% damage increase from Merciless Hammer applies to the entire CC chain, from Earthshaker → Backbreaker → Staggering Blow → Fierce Blow. Then, I typically just use Hammer Shock for the cripple (weak damage) when the enemy inevitably tries to dodge away, and then with Fast Hands, it’s time to go back into GS anyway.

In short, Merciless Hammer increases my hammer damage for the entirety of the combo that I use the Hammer for. It’s basically a 25% damage increase for the hammer, unless some situation occurs where I start spamming 1.

The hammer trait being in the defense line does make sense, as hammers are more of a defensive weapon.

It seems they want us to use Axe/GS more than other weapons though as they have more traits available. This intrigues me, I know we are meant to deal damage but with Hammer/Mace only being available to the two heavy armor classes, and us meant to be “frontliners” the hammer would in my eyes make more sense to be the weapon emphasised for the Warrior. As such I would’ve thought a 2nd hammer trait somewhere would make sense.

The existing trait is a nice trait, but is completely shut down by stability, as are the other 2 traits that work with the hammer (Distracting Strikes and Unsuspecting Foe – although the latter only works with the F1).

I’d love to see a second hammer trait in the strength tree, that wasn’t dependant on the enemy being stunned… stunning is the basis of the hammer so it would be odd to disconnect it from that, but it’s just too easy to kill the weapon.

I had tried seeing what kinda bursts i could get with hammer (focus sigil, berserkers force, hammer trait, cull the weak) = 47% damage increase with full adrelanine (and the knockdown from backbreaker to get stun state and weakness from hammer skill 2) and using frenzy for the basic attacks to wreck havok (i saw bursts of almost 15-20k using PvP berserk amulet with 4-5 attacks). It was only a test, but seeing how hammer can hit up to 5 targets with the last hit of chain 1 and 3 on the first two chains, i think if you could get stability/endure pain/frenzy and get in wvw with a stun and frenzy everything, you could down 3-4 people in a couple of second. But in theory, its very interesting to try different builds.

Fun fact about Hammer is how the trait only gets a bonus to damage while the target is stunned but not knockedback (supposed to share same stats to stun) but i dont know if that was intended by anet or is a bug. Anyway If you want some giggles, try a glass cannon Berzerk warrior with hammer in sPvP and get frenzy/stability/endure pain and just jump into a group of people capping and just go balls out, its quite funny.

Mungrul.9358:

And the trait Quick Breathing is the main reason hammer can’t compete with this combination.

Quick Breathing isn’t the only condition management option. Running shouts with Runes of the Soldier allows you to remove conditions immediately, even while incapacitated. Warhorn’s cast time allows conditions to tick and stops your DPS. Warhorn is still great, but it still has its downfalls.

Mungrul.9358:

Warhorn is just too valuable to ignore, and hammer doesn’t offer enough of an alternative.

Hammer is a powerful tool when dealing with swarms of enemies (e.g., Dredge fractal). AoE cripple, AoE stun, and a huge cleave go a long way. Also, don’t forget the blast finisher. I pair it with Longbow and focus on weapon swapping, burst dumping, and adrenaline building.

I also don’t use any traits that are Hammer specific. It is good enough on its own.

Since Hammer is a defensive weapon, I’d like to see the trait changed to something like Hammer Damage is increased by 10%, cooldowns reduced 20%, and gain 5-10% damage reduction while wielding a Hammer.

Cogbyrn.7283:

I haven’t tested, but I believe the stun on Earthshaker applies before the damage.

If true that is very, very interesting! You should totally test it, for Great Justice!

I play a hammer warrior 10/0/30/10/20 I run with PPT gear, Berserker jewelery, and Swiftness x2 and boon duration runes. Having swiftness and fury up 24/7 is awesome. The Control and mobility of this build combined with 3-5k crits almost every hit makes my hammer actually quite powerful. (Sword/shield secondary) added my build for clarification… haha

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-ts-FwFCRKkO0Y4kL-60;9;49-T9J4;34790;059-Y;04X;1rRI8_3IBB

Oglaf.1074:

Cogbyrn.7283:

I haven’t tested, but I believe the stun on Earthshaker applies before the damage.

If true that is very, very interesting! You should totally test it, for Great Justice!

Confirmed. With 47% crit in the mists, +9% crit chance traited when maxed on Adrenaline, +50% crit chance while stunned from Unsuspecting Foes, I received 6 straight crits on a single mob. A small sample size, but then I went into the group of clustered AoE-training mobs, and every single individual Earthshaker hit is was a crit across 6 different attacks hitting 5 mobs each attack.

In short, with Merciless Hammer, Earthshaker is always going to do 25% more damage as the lead-in (as long as Stability isn’t up). It’s also basically always going to crit if you have any Prec in your build.

EDIT – Taking the test results a step further, when I first got into the mists, I tested right away because I figured my traits had stuck. I was only seeing about a 50% chance to crit, so I almost reported that I had misremembered or was otherwise wrong. Checked the traits, had 0 allocated for some reason, and re-tested once I specced properly.

Appreciate you taking the time testing it.

Any idea if 4 and 5 acts similarly? i.e they apply their knockback/down before the damage?

Oglaf.1074:

Appreciate you taking the time testing it.

Any idea if 4 and 5 acts similarly? i.e they apply their knockback/down before the damage?

That…. is an excellent question. I’ll be right back.

Denied. The 25% damage increase was never applied to the damage for Backbreaker/Staggering Blow unless one was used immediately before the other. With no gear/amulet on in the Mists, it was a very clear distinction between when 25% was applied and when it wasn’t. While testing, I had no traits besides 20 points in Defense and Merciless Hammer (while testing when it was active).

Knockback doesn’t seem to give the damage bonus to me. If it did, i would use stomp/bull rush with a hammer and possibly be able to make a dps/stun lock build like that (idk if it would work, but i like to experiment). Has anyone been able to verify 100% that knockback will proc the extra damage, last time i tried, i didn’t get any gains.

Maybe give a couple more of the hammer skills a blast finisher? Right now it’s only the burst skill that does it, even though the third auto attack hits the ground.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Oglaf.1074:

Appreciate you taking the time testing it.

Any idea if 4 and 5 acts similarly? i.e they apply their knockback/down before the damage?

That…. is an excellent question. I’ll be right back.

Denied. The 25% damage increase was never applied to the damage for Backbreaker/Staggering Blow unless one was used immediately before the other. With no gear/amulet on in the Mists, it was a very clear distinction between when 25% was applied and when it wasn’t. While testing, I had no traits besides 20 points in Defense and Merciless Hammer (while testing when it was active).

Aw man, that’s a real shame.

CoaxialMazer.9140:

Knockback doesn’t seem to give the damage bonus to me. If it did, i would use stomp/bull rush with a hammer and possibly be able to make a dps/stun lock build like that (idk if it would work, but i like to experiment). Has anyone been able to verify 100% that knockback will proc the extra damage, last time i tried, i didn’t get any gains.

A Backbreaker that immediately follows the knockback from Staggering Blow receives the 25% damage increase.

kandolo.2574:

Quick Breathing isn’t the only condition management option. Running shouts with Runes of the Soldier allows you to remove conditions immediately, even while incapacitated. Warhorn’s cast time allows conditions to tick and stops your DPS. Warhorn is still great, but it still has its downfalls.

But the warhorn doesn’t just remove conditions with Quick Breathing traited; it converts conditions to boons, for the group. I’ve never had the opportunity to test, but does the condition removal from Runes of the Soldier apply solely to the warrior using them, or to the group?

Anyway, surely the best thing would be to have both? And again, hammer can only be seen as a much, much poorer alternative in such situations.

As Shouts are affecting allies by default, yes.

Yes it does.

Oglaf.1074:

The damage trait is also rather iffy.

You’re really not hitting disabled targets that often.

Spinebreaker, for example, hardly knocks the enemy down long enough for you to even get one hit in on them as they are disabled.

Agreed. I personally think it should be changed to +10% damage, and an additional +15% damage against disabled targets.

And the 1-1-1 third hit should have SOMETHING. Either a blind, or a 33% blast finisher… something.

I does have a little something; a PBAoE effect. But I agree, it’s not really enough.

imo:

final hit of #1 chain should apply vulnerability and be a blast finisher.

skill # 5 should KD for 3 seconds

Merciless Hammer = Increase the duration of all hammer control effects by 1 second and recharge all hammer skills when your target is below 25% health(60 second cooldown).

Dand.8231:

Oglaf.1074:

The damage trait is also rather iffy.

You’re really not hitting disabled targets that often.

Spinebreaker, for example, hardly knocks the enemy down long enough for you to even get one hit in on them as they are disabled.

Agreed. I personally think it should be changed to +10% damage, and an additional +15% damage against disabled targets.

And the 1-1-1 third hit should have SOMETHING. Either a blind, or a 33% blast finisher… something.

The Guardian third hit makes me green with envy:

AoE Protection near the point of impact.

Warriors could definitely get something for their third hit, ideally something offensive rather defensive to contrast the Guardian.

Not a huge difference, but the third Hammer chain for Warrior has a larger radius and considerably faster casting time than the Guardian version (even when traited to produce a larger symbol).

You will love it even more if you actually try to get people who deal damage in your party/group. So long as you’re full Tank with Hammer and a sword/warhorn preferably.

kandolo.2574:

Not a huge difference, but the third Hammer chain for Warrior has a larger radius and considerably faster casting time than the Guardian version (even when traited to produce a larger symbol).

I’d trade it all for spammable Protection still.

fony.5102:

imo:

final hit of #1 chain should apply vulnerability and be a blast finisher.

skill # 5 should KD for 3 seconds

Merciless Hammer = Increase the duration of all hammer control effects by 1 second and recharge all hammer skills when your target is below 25% health(60 second cooldown).

One of these buffs? sure
All of these buffs together? no

I play a hammer warrior frequently and adding 1 more second on each crowd control effect + the other buffs would be down right broken.

Imagine with Superior Sigil of Paralyzation
2 + 1 second stun burst
.5 + 1 second Hammer 4 stun
3 + 1 second Hammer 5 stun
Swap to off hand mace weapon.
2 second Mace 5 stun

Mind you that this lasts longer than some stability buff durations.

The main thing I think should be changed for the Hammer weapon and its related traits is removing or lowering the cast time on the Hammer Burst (if you didn’t know or use the hammer too often, there is a second where after you cast your Burst skill where you just stand still before leaping.

Hammer trait should be so that it does increased damage on those who are or have been affected by a stun in the last 2 seconds.