I solved Warrior build diversity issues

I solved Warrior build diversity issues

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Posted by: xbutcherx.3861

xbutcherx.3861

sight This is the reason why you are not a game developer. ^

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Posted by: Scryed.9423

Scryed.9423

Judging by your post history I doubt you have the cognitive capacity to solve any issues, especially looking at what you call fixed. You did basically no work. LoL devs do much more than what you just did here, which was nothing in case you didn’t catch that, frand.

(edited by Scryed.9423)

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Posted by: Forestgreen.7981

Forestgreen.7981

Devs actually DO suggest things like this to their QA team, and then they have people actually test this. I do agree on some changes you proposed, but I rather they fix some of the old skills as they are rather questionable to what they do at the moment. Mostly healing surge, healing surge in general should straight up heal for a flat amount, not force you to never use adrenaline just so your heal/second matches the passive healing signet.

The only real fixes for physical abilities (kick,stomp) they need is to make them less clunky like how they changed hammer 4 from a self-root to simple instant cast. Warriors in general aren’t nimble, which is why they fail so often.

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Posted by: Scryed.9423

Scryed.9423

things

Based on reading what you posted, it didn’t look like you wanted criticism, however, since you opened that up let me help you with this.
A good developer in this game has to balance spvp, wvw, and pve.

What you did doesn’t help all of those which tells me you have a bias and since this game doesn’t swap skills in each mode of game play that really isn’t helping your cause here. To move onto what you said next, depending on what and who you are fighting, some of the combos you mentioned work really well actually.

I can totally appreciate the effort, because most of us here love the game and want to see things resolved.

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Posted by: loseridoit.2756

loseridoit.2756

Devs actually DO suggest things like this to their QA team, and then they have people actually test this. I do agree on some changes you proposed, but I rather they fix some of the old skills as they are rather questionable to what they do at the moment. Mostly healing surge, healing surge in general should straight up heal for a flat amount, not force you to never use adrenaline just so your heal/second matches the passive healing signet.

The only real fixes for physical abilities (kick,stomp) they need is to make them less clunky like how they changed hammer 4 from a self-root to simple instant cast. Warriors in general aren’t nimble, which is why they fail so often.

How is kick clunky? kick is a small aoe knockback with ok damage that doesnt have a ridiculous animation time. Pretty fun to use.

I kinda agree with stomp, that skill is so ridiculously telegraph that anybody can easily dodge it. You are practically stuck in place.

I actually agree with Zefrost suggestions to some extent. He is basically adding utility to warriors weapon skills.

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Posted by: Forestgreen.7981

Forestgreen.7981

Devs actually DO suggest things like this to their QA team, and then they have people actually test this. I do agree on some changes you proposed, but I rather they fix some of the old skills as they are rather questionable to what they do at the moment. Mostly healing surge, healing surge in general should straight up heal for a flat amount, not force you to never use adrenaline just so your heal/second matches the passive healing signet.

The only real fixes for physical abilities (kick,stomp) they need is to make them less clunky like how they changed hammer 4 from a self-root to simple instant cast. Warriors in general aren’t nimble, which is why they fail so often.

How is kick clunky? kick is a small aoe knockback with ok damage that doesnt have a ridiculous animation time. Pretty fun to use.

I kinda agree with stomp, that skill is so ridiculously telegraph that anybody can easily dodge it. You are practically stuck in place.

I actually agree with Zefrost suggestions to some extent. He is basically adding utility to warriors weapon skills.

The kick range is bad and like most warrior’s weapons kills + physical utilities that involve movement they are all hindered by cripple/chill reducing the effective gap close/range making them clunky to use.

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Posted by: loseridoit.2756

loseridoit.2756

The kick range is bad and like most warrior’s weapons kills + physical utilities that involve movement they are all hindered by cripple/chill reducing the effective gap close/range making them clunky to use.

I wouldnt call that clunky. I would call that a warrior condition removal design problem.

Why are we removing all the cons out of skills? Skills should have cons.

Kick is meant to be used in melee range. I dont find the gigantic issue here.

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Posted by: killahmayne.9518

killahmayne.9518

no offense, but most of these changes are bad but i don’t have time to disect them atm

Mace/Greatsword Video (Sept Patch)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoAjKtD6MLY

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Posted by: Flitzie.6082

Flitzie.6082

Lol at that insane furious reaction buff.

The warrior only needs one thing right now: 3 second delay before adrenaline decay after you recieved it.

You touched the shiny, didn’t you?

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Posted by: bobomb.5209

bobomb.5209

I know this is a joke post but I have to admit that would be a nice change to “Deep strike”
(Change the name and put it farther into the tree but otherwise not a bad idea)

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Posted by: SpecterMAT.7306

SpecterMAT.7306

#ZeforstForDeveloper2014

make it happen.

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Posted by: SkyChef.5432

SkyChef.5432

Well you guys, look at the bright side. Having Zefrost as a developer is as good as having Anet developers today. He can do no worse and much cheaper.

People are too serious of their knowledge.

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Posted by: Azure The Heartless.3261

Azure The Heartless.3261

Judging by your post history I doubt you have the cognitive capacity to solve any issues, especially looking at what you call fixed. You did basically no work. LoL devs do much more than what you just did here, which was nothing in case you didn’t catch that, frand.

>OP Does work

>Must bring up post history to justify ignoring that some the changes he suggested are actually quite good..

Resident Disgruntled, Coffee-drinking Charr.
Zarin Mistcloak(THF) Valkyrie Mistblade(WAR) Kossori Mistwalker(REV) Durendal Mistward(GRD)
I used to think (build op, pls nerf) like you, but then I took a nerf to the knee.

(edited by Azure The Heartless.3261)

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Posted by: Harper.4173

Harper.4173

Actually I really liked some of these suggestions.

If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”

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Posted by: BurrTheKing.8571

BurrTheKing.8571

Some of the suggestions are OK. The missile reflect on the Axe skills would add some needed utility. Not so sure about the knock back on Dual Strike but it certainly does need SOMETHING. The physical skills could also need some work. However, the only way I would ever consider taking the Physical Training trait is if it affected the Rampage skills.

Furious Reaction seems like it would be stupidly OP in PvE/WvW and even in some PvP situations. The 2 boon traits are just clones of already existing traits that Engi has. I would prefer something more…unique. Not sure what exactly but I’ll think about it.

Just an angry old man…

Old Man Burr (War), Bad Hat Ben (Engi), Manly Manny Manson (Guard)

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Posted by: Jzaku.9765

Jzaku.9765

The numbers could use some tweaking but the essence of many of these changes are adding utility to the extremely straightforward damage sets most things “Warrior” are. I think it’s a solid effort at improving diversity.

(Except the Adrenaline Surge trait no matter how absolutely terrible Surge is now it’s still probably not a good idea to let anyone essentially have 2 heal skills)

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Posted by: Miku Lawrence.6329

Miku Lawrence.6329

kitten yeah, give them reflects, boonstrips and quickness on demand. RIP mesmer in pve groups \o/

Snow Crows [SC]

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Posted by: Simon.3794

Simon.3794

OP is right, no matter how much damage buff you give to axe 5 it will never be viable in pvp, because these damage will never matter because how bad the skill is designed, unless you give them insane damage buff, which anet will never do and should not.

in order for axe 5 to be competitive with sword and shield, is to give this skill a utility(projectil reflect).
this brings more skill based plays, and higher the skill ceiling and skill floor yet not being damage creep. same goes for crushing blow

OT: im actually impressed when i see the inspiring banner suggestion, really good.
and some of them might be too op.
also for physical trainning, i think it’s better to gain quickness instead of fury. because most zerker war build, they don’t have trouble getting fury, but landing their extremly telegraphed moves like hundred blade, killshot, axe5 etc, making CC physical skills give quickness can really be competitive against stances.

and i like the stomp change, sure it might be too op and need tuned down, but it has a point, warrior now are too focused around berserker stance etc, really need to spray the condition removal around other utilities.

but non the less, OP is definitely heading to the good direction

(edited by Simon.3794)

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Posted by: Simon.3794

Simon.3794

Also why would you increase the CD of leg specialist to 10
imo it should be removed.

also i want to suggest

whenever you channel hundred blade, you block all incoming projectils.

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Posted by: bobomb.5209

bobomb.5209

Also why would you increase the CD of leg specialist to 10
imo it should be removed.

also i want to suggest

whenever you channel hundred blade, you block all incoming projectils.

Leg specialist used to not have an ICD. People complained (For a very good reason) of permanent immobilize on sword auto attack. And it was true you could permanently immobilize with constant application. So I’m sorry but Leg specialist needs the ICD. Also Why would hundred blades need to block incoming projectiles? You need to set up the skill anyways (Some form of CC) as well as being in melee range. So your suggestion doesn’t really make sense.

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Posted by: Olba.5376

Olba.5376

These are the results after theorycrafting current problems and thinking of every possible outcome or situation that I could think of with these changes; including Restorative Strength with double heal skill, Mighty Defenses’ might gain when blocking with Blademaster, making these changes work for every possible weapon set such as Mace/Axe, Sword/Board, and more!

So… you “theorycraft every possible outcome”… and you don’t bother showing any of that process? Not a very good start.

As for your changes:

  1. Why should Cyclone Axe reflect projectiles? Cyclone Axe isn’t broken in any way, it’s very popular in PvE.
  2. Your Crushing Blow suggestion is OP. Not to mention that it promotes sitting on all of your adrenaline, which we already have enough of with Berserker’s Power, Adrenal Health and Heightened Focus.
  3. Where the heck did you get Knockback on Dual Strike? OH Axe is a damage weapon, not a CC weapon. The biggest problem with Dual Strike is that Whirling Axe currently kind of sucks and Warriors have too much Fury from other sources.
  4. Again, where the hell does condi removal on Stomp come from? I don’t think anyone has ever said “Man, Stomp would be awesome if I could take it in place of a condi clear”. Lower the cooldown and make the animation faster and it’ll be useable as-is.
  5. I think that your Inspiring Banners is a tad bit OP. Warriors already take Banner of Strength and Banner of Discipline in dungeons, you don’t need to make those stronger.
  6. I don’t like your version of Physical Training simply because Axes get Fury from Dual Strike and Greatsword gets it from Arcing Slice. If they were able to get Fury from Bull’s Charge, that’d make those skills even more useless. And your suggested fixes wouldn’t change that.
  7. You’ve basically revamped Furious Reaction into being a one-off anti-burst skill. Also, considering how Thieves play (strong in beginning, weak later on), this would make Furious Reaction a literal anti-Thief trait: it would trigger when they try to burst you down and instantly undo all of the damage and fill up your adrenaline. Furious Reaction is fine as-is.
  8. Your Deep Strike does nothing for Signet of Rage’s activation. Not to mention that it the effects on Signet of Fury and Signet of Might seem a bit strong, considering the typical use cases for their actives (Fury > Burst, Might to pierce blocks). And the Protection on Dolyak kind of worries me, too.
  9. Where the kitten did you get blocking on swords? Sword can already block by choosing Sword or Shield OH. If anything, you should be considering a cooldown reduction.
  10. Your Last Chance is ridiculously OP. Just try putting that on a Hammer or Mace/Shield.
  11. Your Cull the Weak looks to enable permanent weakness as long as you can keep attacking. Too strong.
  12. Your Opportunist would literally make any immobilize into a Stun. Opportunist + Leg Specialist + Sword or Hammer would be way too strong.
  13. Since I don’t agree with your Opportunist, I can’t agree on nerfing Leg Specialist either.
  14. What’s with the random nerf on Sharpened Axes?

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Posted by: Blackhat.4016

Blackhat.4016

These are the results after theorycrafting current problems and thinking of every possible outcome or situation that I could think of with these changes; including Restorative Strength with double heal skill, Mighty Defenses’ might gain when blocking with Blademaster, making these changes work for every possible weapon set such as Mace/Axe, Sword/Board, and more!

So… you “theorycraft every possible outcome”… and you don’t bother showing any of that process? Not a very good start.

As for your changes:

  1. Why should Cyclone Axe reflect projectiles? Cyclone Axe isn’t broken in any way, it’s very popular in PvE.
  2. Your Crushing Blow suggestion is OP. Not to mention that it promotes sitting on all of your adrenaline, which we already have enough of with Berserker’s Power, Adrenal Health and Heightened Focus.
  3. Where the heck did you get Knockback on Dual Strike? OH Axe is a damage weapon, not a CC weapon. The biggest problem with Dual Strike is that Whirling Axe currently kind of sucks and Warriors have too much Fury from other sources.
  4. Again, where the hell does condi removal on Stomp come from? I don’t think anyone has ever said “Man, Stomp would be awesome if I could take it in place of a condi clear”. Lower the cooldown and make the animation faster and it’ll be useable as-is.
  5. I think that your Inspiring Banners is a tad bit OP. Warriors already take Banner of Strength and Banner of Discipline in dungeons, you don’t need to make those stronger.
  6. I don’t like your version of Physical Training simply because Axes get Fury from Dual Strike and Greatsword gets it from Arcing Slice. If they were able to get Fury from Bull’s Charge, that’d make those skills even more useless. And your suggested fixes wouldn’t change that.
  7. You’ve basically revamped Furious Reaction into being a one-off anti-burst skill. Also, considering how Thieves play (strong in beginning, weak later on), this would make Furious Reaction a literal anti-Thief trait: it would trigger when they try to burst you down and instantly undo all of the damage and fill up your adrenaline. Furious Reaction is fine as-is.
  8. Your Deep Strike does nothing for Signet of Rage’s activation. Not to mention that it the effects on Signet of Fury and Signet of Might seem a bit strong, considering the typical use cases for their actives (Fury > Burst, Might to pierce blocks). And the Protection on Dolyak kind of worries me, too.
  9. Where the kitten did you get blocking on swords? Sword can already block by choosing Sword or Shield OH. If anything, you should be considering a cooldown reduction.
  10. Your Last Chance is ridiculously OP. Just try putting that on a Hammer or Mace/Shield.
  11. Your Cull the Weak looks to enable permanent weakness as long as you can keep attacking. Too strong.
  12. Your Opportunist would literally make any immobilize into a Stun. Opportunist + Leg Specialist + Sword or Hammer would be way too strong.
  13. Since I don’t agree with your Opportunist, I can’t agree on nerfing Leg Specialist either.
  14. What’s with the random nerf on Sharpened Axes?

^ explained it pretty well.

That’s exactly why most suggestions never make it into the game. People like the profession they play and think about changes that make it more fun. Sadly they don’t know how to balance these changes properly. If the first 2-3 ideas are already OP or don’t make any sense, why should Anet even bother to read the whole thread.

I’m not trying to be mean or anything but that’s usually how it works. Anets employees only have a limited amount of time to read those threads too. That’s why they need to sort out the OP/weird threads and stick to the “better” ones.

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Posted by: Simon.3794

Simon.3794

Also why would you increase the CD of leg specialist to 10
imo it should be removed.

also i want to suggest

whenever you channel hundred blade, you block all incoming projectils.

Leg specialist used to not have an ICD. People complained (For a very good reason) of permanent immobilize on sword auto attack. And it was true you could permanently immobilize with constant application. So I’m sorry but Leg specialist needs the ICD. Also Why would hundred blades need to block incoming projectiles? You need to set up the skill anyways (Some form of CC) as well as being in melee range. So your suggestion doesn’t really make sense.

Because, in 5v5 wise, as of right now as a zerker/assassin gs warrior, if you go in a mid team fight against any team that is not noob, either you go stances open, or you will be down instantly by all the aoes and projectils.

So, by adding projectil blockage, it will be more viable to do aoe damage or pick some one (setting CC) whos in team fight and do your some of your hundred blades without getting down instantly.

and it also brings nice utility against projectil skills 1v1 wise.

so brings more skillful plays.

because right now, you rarely even use it most of the time.

and without making hundred blade in pve a power creep skill,

and i don’t seriously believe you can perma immo someone with sword it’s only the 3rd hit of the sword, unless it’s WvW then probably, but it can be a PvP only change.

i never understand why they added cripple to sword, like it wasnt enough a auto attack only weapon. if they really can perma immo( not like other classes can’t chain super long immo), then they should just remove cripple and then remove the ICD of leg specialist, because it can bring so much more skill plays and make some weapon combination more use worthy, compare to longbow.

(edited by Simon.3794)

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Posted by: Simon.3794

Simon.3794

These are the results after theorycrafting current problems and thinking of every possible outcome or situation that I could think of with these changes; including Restorative Strength with double heal skill, Mighty Defenses’ might gain when blocking with Blademaster, making these changes work for every possible weapon set such as Mace/Axe, Sword/Board, and more!

So… you “theorycraft every possible outcome”… and you don’t bother showing any of that process? Not a very good start.

As for your changes:

  1. Why should Cyclone Axe reflect projectiles? Cyclone Axe isn’t broken in any way, it’s very popular in PvE.
  2. Your Crushing Blow suggestion is OP. Not to mention that it promotes sitting on all of your adrenaline, which we already have enough of with Berserker’s Power, Adrenal Health and Heightened Focus.
  3. Where the heck did you get Knockback on Dual Strike? OH Axe is a damage weapon, not a CC weapon. The biggest problem with Dual Strike is that Whirling Axe currently kind of sucks and Warriors have too much Fury from other sources.
  4. Again, where the hell does condi removal on Stomp come from? I don’t think anyone has ever said “Man, Stomp would be awesome if I could take it in place of a condi clear”. Lower the cooldown and make the animation faster and it’ll be useable as-is.
  5. I think that your Inspiring Banners is a tad bit OP. Warriors already take Banner of Strength and Banner of Discipline in dungeons, you don’t need to make those stronger.
  6. I don’t like your version of Physical Training simply because Axes get Fury from Dual Strike and Greatsword gets it from Arcing Slice. If they were able to get Fury from Bull’s Charge, that’d make those skills even more useless. And your suggested fixes wouldn’t change that.
  7. You’ve basically revamped Furious Reaction into being a one-off anti-burst skill. Also, considering how Thieves play (strong in beginning, weak later on), this would make

1. Why not, it gives quick skillful play in pvp and it doesnt affect PvE much, in fact it will be a good bonus of close to no big deal.

2. Yes, maybe it is OP for 3 condition removal, maybe make it more like 2 per full adrenaline, then 1 for the rest. Because without it, it will not come close to sword or shield, ever. it does not promote sitting on adrenaline at all, looks like some one does not play PvP here, if you want to survive you will always need to use adrenaline. and in PvE, you already never use adrenaline, so doesnt really matter, plus why would you want to boon remove anyway, other classes have more relyable boon removal, and not like you need to remove a lot of boon in PvE anyway.

3. sure, but it definitely needs some thing.

4. Why not? you can ask the same thing why shadow return can remove condition and almost every other skill that has condition removal effect.
This skill will never be in use in the current stat, even if you lower the CD to like 20 seconds and reduced cast time, just like whirling axe damage buff, it doesnt matter.

5. No, it’s not OP, It’s a grandmaster trait in tactics line, it is already op as itself for perma regen, this change would only bring diversity to banner choice and interesting plays. Also he increased the CD to 10 seconds, so non of those buffs are perma compared to perma regen right now. but some of the buff duration can be tuned

6. I agree, i personnally think that physical skills give quickness would be much more interesting. since zerker war does not lack fury.

7. Like the other guy said, no matter how weak is Healing surge right now, i dont think you should get a second heal.

8. activation for Fury and Might is no where close to strong, right now they serve no props in PvP, and i blieve banner is way better for dungeons.

9. No comment.

10. If you think about it, it is grandmaster in arms, non of those hambow or w/e uses arms unless they give up a lot (CD reduction, damage, condition cleans, leg specialist, and more), but again, i think it takes some thing other then this, dont think its a good change.

11. Mace should be a defensive weapon, a bunker weapon, so 5% damage does not make sense.
it attacks really slow and will mostly never get to the 3rd hit (which applies weakness) = not reliable for weakness application and has a really small radius. either way, even you are extremely luck to hit some one on the 3rd hit, and they didn’t cleans the weakness(yes, if they cleans it, then the trait will be no more) and been able to keep attacking him (which is really rare). you will only know when you test it. and it also has competitors like Dogged march, reflect, shield mastery. after reading all these, im sure you will reconsider it.

12. no comment.

13. CD should be removed as i explained above

14. i agree, whatsup with the random nerf.

(edited by Simon.3794)

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Posted by: CntrlAltDefeat.1465

CntrlAltDefeat.1465

Nice attempts at balancing. I hope, if nothing else it provides discussion internally.

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Posted by: bobomb.5209

bobomb.5209

@ Simon

True about the Greatsword changes, but if you would actually look at the one handed sword you would see that it takes approximately 1 second to cast the full chain, and the base immobilize for Leg Specialist is one second, not counting condition duration modifiers. Doing basic math, 1=1. If you don’t want to believe me that’s your problem but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true.

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Posted by: Purifer.3946

Purifer.3946

Sorry mate, laughed hard.