Well from what I’ve seen other people saying, the Grandmaster Trait down 30 in Defense line “Spiked Armor” basically lost it’s effectiveness with the nerf to Retaliation, and so far has became a underwhelming trait by far. Defy Pain is a much more attractive option over Spiked Armor. So for a idea revolving around Adrenaline usage I thought up of a new Grandmaster Trait to possibly help with survival issues. I would like some feedback on the idea if it’s a good or bad idea or isn’t something the warrior really needs..
New Grandmaster Trait: Protected Determination- When stricken by a critical hit gain retaliation for 3 seconds (ICD 15 Seconds) For every bar of adrenaline spent, you gain protection for a short time. (1 bar=3 second, 2 bars=4 seconds 3 bars=5 seconds)
The issue is that spending adrenaline relies on the burst attack connecting, which bind and dodges can make quite difficult. I do not believe it is as bad as many players believe, but it does seriously restrict the usefulness of adrenaline-spent moves. Another player pointed out to me in a different thread the fact that retaliation is not, itself, a defensive asset when only active for a few seconds. It does not deter damage, even if it does assist your offensive potential.
In addition, gating our defenses behind enemy critical hits does mean they have a slight pressure trigger, but it also means that a defensive warrior needs to take a large amount of damage to… take less damage. This skill also means that to have access to protection, we give up our Adrenal Health regeneration, which is actually a problematic trade-off considering how easily boons can be stripped, stolen or converted. Not to mention it imitates too closely cleansing ire, and variety in traits is an important measure of how viable and interesting a class is.
I like this idea as a concept, even if not personally, and I am only voicing some possible problems with it as a feature of game design. There are plenty of positives on the face of the idea, so don’t think I’m just brushing it off.
should still be ~5secs of retal or more.
personally, im more into passive %dmg reduction than protection (can’t be stripped and possibility to gain protection from external sources)
should still be ~5secs of retal or more.
personally, im more into passive %dmg reduction than protection (can’t be stripped and possibility to gain protection from external sources)
This is actually a much better idea % damage reduction rather then a boon works nicely in a way if you do take cleansing Ire as well you can either choose to give up your damage reduction and your Adrenal health Regen for Condition cleansing, or keep it to combat incoming direct damage. Though I only suggested protection boon just for people who run extra boon duration, and not to mention it’s a big direct damage mitigation (33%).
Another point is hitting with burst skills, i’ve been spending to much time with Longbow burst skill, and haven’t thought of the other hard to hit with burst skills.. Also keeping it 5 seconds on retal instead of 3 would be a better idea. I just didn’t want the whole trait to overshadow defy pain. And as with the other post above gating it to only crits is another meh idea. Should give it a % chance to proc on every attack.
Yea, although it doesn’t take much to get hit by a crit. And i think the point of retal proccing on crit is to punish high crit chance opponents. 100% chance of proccing on getting hit by a crit is better than 10-25% chance on all attacks imo.
…if you do take cleansing Ire as well you can either choose to give up your damage reduction and your Adrenal health Regen for Condition cleansing, or keep it to combat incoming direct damage.
I neve actually thought of this being balanced by cleansing ire, but come to think of it – it looks good that way. gives more depth to the gameplay.
should still be ~5secs of retal or more.
personally, im more into passive %dmg reduction than protection (can’t be stripped and possibility to gain protection from external sources)
They could offer a similar trait like Heightened Focus granting 5,10, and 15% damage reduction based on adrenaline levels. The only problem I could see with this is that warriors would feel pigeon-holed into the Defense Tree even more so now for spvp and WvW aspects.
I have more interests in to active ways to mitigate damage. We had passive damage reduction in past other MMOs and feels dubbed down. Anet prided themselves on active combat (evades, dodges, and blocks) so they should maintain that idea.
Retaliation itself isn’t a strong defensive mechanic. I’d rather see a longer sustainable defensive mechanic similar to what you are trying with protection here and lose the retaliation completely.
Protected Determination- Take 10%less damage while affected by Protection. For every bar of adrenaline spent, you gain protection for a short time. (1 bar=3 second, 2 bars=4 seconds 3 bars=5 seconds)
This may be too much, but something to give warrior a longer lasting viablity option. Defy Pain is a good last second option and has its merits so both would be good defensive trade offs.
should still be ~5secs of retal or more.
personally, im more into passive %dmg reduction than protection (can’t be stripped and possibility to gain protection from external sources)
They could offer a similar trait like Heightened Focus granting 5,10, and 15% damage reduction based on adrenaline levels. The only problem I could see with this is that warriors would feel pigeon-holed into the Defense Tree even more so now for spvp and WvW aspects.
I have more interests in to active ways to mitigate damage. We had passive damage reduction in past other MMOs and feels dubbed down. Anet prided themselves on active combat (evades, dodges, and blocks) so they should maintain that idea.
I’m with you when it comes to being a little apprehensive about putting our sustain in a trait tree. The one thing that seems to be affecting all but the tankiest warriors is difficulty sustaining. By attaching survivability to a tree, especially at the Grandmaster level, we end up in a situation where a large portion of the community would, arguably, feel forced to go for that trait, which for builds not already running 30 in Defense, will come at potentially significant penalties to damage, flexibility, or group support.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all about “give this to get that”, but with some of the recent trait changes, the DPS and Hybrids, have already had to give a little. Placing sustain deep into a tree that typically sees a max of 20 points invested by non-tanks has the potential to make the very builds that suffer from sustain issues sacrifice even more of what they need to fulfill their role, damage and flexibility.
Additionally, because warriors don’t have a viable bunker, I would argue that we need sustain across the board, and for that reason, I believe we need a solution organic to the class that comes to all builds without sacrifice.
(edited by Veritas.6071)
should still be ~5secs of retal or more.
personally, im more into passive %dmg reduction than protection (can’t be stripped and possibility to gain protection from external sources)
They could offer a similar trait like Heightened Focus granting 5,10, and 15% damage reduction based on adrenaline levels. The only problem I could see with this is that warriors would feel pigeon-holed into the Defense Tree even more so now for spvp and WvW aspects.
I have more interests in to active ways to mitigate damage. We had passive damage reduction in past other MMOs and feels dubbed down. Anet prided themselves on active combat (evades, dodges, and blocks) so they should maintain that idea.
I’m with you when it comes to being a little apprehensive about putting our sustain in a trait tree. The one thing that seems to be affecting all but the tankiest warriors is difficulty sustaining. By attaching survivability to a tree, especially at the Grandmaster level, we end up in a situation where a large portion of the community would, arguably, feel forced to go for that trait, which for builds not already running 30 in Defense, will come at potentially significant penalties to damage, flexibility, or group support.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all about “give this to get that”, but with some of the recent trait changes, the DPS and Hybrids, have already had to give a little. Placing sustain deep into a tree that typically sees a max of 20 points invested by non-tanks has the potential to make the very builds that suffer from sustain issues sacrifice even more of what they need to fulfill their role, damage and flexibility.
Additionally, because warriors don’t have a viable bunker, I would argue that we need sustain across the board, and for that reason, I believe we need a solution organic to the class that comes to all builds without sacrifice.
Are you thinking, they need to implement something into the minor traits so all builds have the option without investing too much to gain this sustain? It’s plausible but then you just made the whole warrior class stronger instead of a specific build or playstyle. This is where Anet struggles I think. They really can’t find a way to add more sustain and mitigation without pigeon-holing the warrior class to take it or making the class as a whole too strong.
Not that I couldn’t see a bunker warrior not going 30 in to Defense and Tactics tree but then we’ll get the warriors complaining that they can’t kill and then we would start the river of tears all over again. i.e. "Well elementalists and guardians have great sustain and mitigation and they can still do good damage, why can’t we?!"
And then history repeats itself.
Hence, this is why I believe the key to balancing warrior is through our burst attacks and weapons.
Give us a way to mitigate damage or stop attacks without giving passive defenses and you will make even some dps builds somewhat reliable of living longer.
I think another mechanic that plays off of adrenaline would be appropriate. I posted a thread about a second mechanic that could be activated which drained adrenaline over time and halted adrenaline gain while providing a significant boost to toughness. However, from what Sharp said in SotG, it sounds like Anet is thinking about changing up our heals and buffing our HP so I think they’re headed more in the direction of us just eating tons of damage rather than surviving through mitigation.
Hence, this is why I believe the key to balancing warrior is through our burst attacks and weapons.
Give us a way to mitigate damage or stop attacks without giving passive defenses and you will make even some dps builds somewhat reliable of living longer.
The problem is that as a platform for features, the warrior runs the risk of loading way too much of its ability into very few skills. Barring our utility skills (which are probably fine as is), all we have are weapon skills and our burst, which is an attack bound to a fairly basic resource bar. Mesmers have clones, engineers their kits and most other classes a form of alternate play that can be loaded with features and thus distribute the concentration of power. I don’t think warriors need more features like this, and I don’t think other classes need less, this isn’t a whine about the toys other players get. But it is the primary problem when talking about adding more sustainability to the warrior; Where can you put it that it isn’t going to be too strong and mandatory, or worse, passive and boring?
Active mitigation is awesome, and warriors would relish the heightened skill cap that comes with such a change, but we already have a great deal of blocks and few other options fit the warrior style. Protection and Aegis are the forte of the Guardian, I don’t believe they are ours to request or want. Blurring/autoevasion moves are not aligned with the solid and bruiser-like aesthetic/design of the warrior, and healing buffs rapidly scale from sup-par to monstrous when used as a salve for suitability issues. Where does the Warrior turn to for his mitigation?
I believe the answer is dodging. Dodging is powerful in proportion to player skill, core to the game’s features and not already loaded with a great deal of a warrior’s power. It is divorced from our burst, weapon skills and healing, so it can be tweaked without fear of overcharging any of those skills. In addition, while dodging a warrior is performing no other action, it cancels casts and only a warrior’s condition damage can continue reliably while dodging, it can only be a purely defensive action (barring reckless dodge), making it the perfect fit for our ailing sustain abilities while building for damage. It also meshes nicely with our existing strengths in mobility. I have been thinking since my first reply to this thread (and in others concerning Spikes) and I believe that across the board warriors would benefit from more opportunities to dodge, not just those with 30 points in defense.
Although, with the thread in mind, consider this as a replacement for spiked armor;
‘Roll With the Punches; Enemy critical hits restore a small amount of endurance (X second internal cooldown)’
This focus on dodging as a core source of mitigation can be implemented across the trees through more abundant vitality, direct restoration sources from traits and other sources I am sure I cannot imagine (feel free to suggest more). Anyway, that’s my big, fat 2 cents on the issue.
should still be ~5secs of retal or more.
personally, im more into passive %dmg reduction than protection (can’t be stripped and possibility to gain protection from external sources)
They could offer a similar trait like Heightened Focus granting 5,10, and 15% damage reduction based on adrenaline levels. The only problem I could see with this is that warriors would feel pigeon-holed into the Defense Tree even more so now for spvp and WvW aspects.
I have more interests in to active ways to mitigate damage. We had passive damage reduction in past other MMOs and feels dubbed down. Anet prided themselves on active combat (evades, dodges, and blocks) so they should maintain that idea.
I agree we don’t want to force people into going deep into a trait line just to get better survivability.. However, we do want to reward those who do invest into defense – which I think this trait will do well. We don’t want this to be easily accessible as we don’t want to see pure berserkers having too much sustain.
We still have the problem of how to give JUST ENOUGH sustain for those who wants a bit of both worlds (i.e. OK damage and OK survivability). This is through more defensive options (weapon skills, traits across other trees) that gives JUST ENOUGH sustain by sacrificing JUST ENOUGH dps… there have been a lot of suggestions around the forums concerning this (more blocks on weapons, evade on mobile skills, more healing capability, etc.) but it would be off topic.
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