Guild Wars 2

If warriors were given one added boon, what would you want it to be? Why?

For me personally I think i would want protection. As a major pvper and wvw player I fee; as though I lack a lot of sustainability and feel that a little bit of up time with protection would go a long way.

I don’t feel like I need protection. I would prefer some more retaliation though, the 5s every 15s I get now feels like it’s not enough.

easier access to regen.

I’d prefer a condition unique to Warrior: Deep Wound. Straight up 20% decrease of target’s armour. Alternatively, a reduction of target’s maximum and current hit points by 20%. Stacks in duration.

Protection, so that I can get the HURR DURR extra armor that other classes like guardian can cheese behind constantly. You know, the boon that makes eles, a light armor class, more durable than warriors on many occasions?

If not that, then I want a trait or skill that ignores or straight up rips off protection from my enemies. A 33% damage reduction is just absurd. If our high damage is supposed to be balanced with our enemy’s high defense, why is it our side lacks the sustain? Something needs looked at and I feel like this boon in particular has always been the place to start.

@ Sil

A blanket nerf to protection from 33% reduction to 20% would already do wonders.

Retaliation always felt like more of a warriors boon than a guardians. I understand why guardians get easy access to regen, protection, and aegis because of their lower hp pool. But why do they need to get retal too?

I wouldn’t mind a protection nerf to be honest. I also have a D/D ele who would suffer from it, but I don’t feel like it would impact my play much and might bring damage received more in line in modes like WvW. I’d like to see protection as a whole get scaled down a bit and have more skills like Frost Aura which have an independent damage reduction for like 10% or so.

Clip.6845:

I don’t feel like I need protection. I would prefer some more retaliation though, the 5s every 15s I get now feels like it’s not enough.

Sir, protection is better than all the armor and hp you can muster. If you went full soldier you would kitten your self.

Eles and guardians have it up a lot of the time. Rangers etc. It is a HUGE game changer. A very simple experiment..take an ele..go full arcana and water.. have a thief with good burst burst you down. Now..ask him to do it again and just before he does so, switch to earth attunement for an INSTANT protection every 9 seconds that is up most of the time. Now..watch how your health changes.
Situation 1 is you..situation 2 is every other class with protection.
Toughness is crap compared to protection.

Regen might be good if you are a tanky build or have healing gear on. Most of us don’t. I don’t think we are as good as bunkers in competitive spvp so we should skip it.

We don’t need retaliation. We do enough damage. It will only work against thieves and smart thieves trigger it and shadowstep away or stealth till it wears off then they hit again. We need protection with a fair amount of up time.

The solution is simple. Drop protection damage reduction so our Destruction of the Empowered can have Some noticable effect (check the discussion about warriors post patch regarding this )

XII.9401:

Clip.6845:

I don’t feel like I need protection. I would prefer some more retaliation though, the 5s every 15s I get now feels like it’s not enough.

Sir, protection is better than all the armor and hp you can muster. If you went full soldier you would kitten your self.

Eles and guardians have it up a lot of the time. Rangers etc. It is a HUGE game changer. A very simple experiment..take an ele..go full arcana and water.. have a thief with good burst burst you down. Now..ask him to do it again and just before he does so, switch to earth attunement for an INSTANT protection every 9 seconds that is up most of the time. Now..watch how your health changes.
Situation 1 is you..situation 2 is every other class with protection.
Toughness is crap compared to protection.

Regen might be good if you are a tanky build or have healing gear on. Most of us don’t. I don’t think we are as good as bunkers in competitive spvp so we should skip it.

We don’t need retaliation. We do enough damage. It will only work against thieves and smart thieves trigger it and shadowstep away or stealth till it wears off then they hit again. We need protection with a fair amount of up time.

The solution is simple. Drop protection damage reduction so our Destruction of the Empowered can have Some noticable effect (check the discussion about warriors post patch regarding this )

The reason ele and guardians have good acces to protection is because they have low hp. I know it’s a game changer (duh) but I still don’t think it’s what our class NEEDS.

I stand by my opinion and you just wasted your time explaining a lot of stuff I already know since bwe1 :p

That’s the common argument, yes. However I think it also needs to be considered how much access classes like that have to the boon in the first place. If it’s up 50-75% of the time, they may as well have just given those classes a buttload more armor to begin with, because that’s the effect it has.

While it’s great that Anet is finally trying to balance us, I think that instead of the lazy +3% damage route, they should just attack protection directly. Retaliation already got its nerf; protection could stand to go down to 20% or Destruction of the Empowered needs a property to strip/ignore protection, be it via burst skills or what have you. A mainhand mace attack or something like the greatsword burst would be my candidates for this.

Retaliation, while okay, doesn’t fix our defensive problems. Either they need to give us some versatile options so that we can build more defensive if we choose, or they need to make our methods for overcoming defenses with overwhelming force just as direct as that idea itself.

Make boon hate ignore protection rather than give a damage increase.

Sent nerds in baby steps mostly. Prot may go down to 25%, not 20%

Well, i know we have defensive problems, but I don’t think protection is the solution. Most of the times i’m dying is because of conditions I can’t remove. I posted some solutions I’d like in another topic for that issue.

OP just asked, if we could have more acces to a boon, which would be best? Well for my build I’d like retaliation (or regeneration) best.

As for that 3% damage per boon, it would be great if it destroyed protection, or boons for that matter.

Haha, ignore protection and just rename Destruction of the Empowered to “Inexorable Strikes” or something? xD

I think 25% would still be reasonable, yeah. That’s a -8% nerf on what it is now which is honestly pretty large.

I personally prefer short durations with large effects than long durations with lesser effects. It encourages using it more tactically instead of just spamming for max uptime, and gives greater rewarding/punishment for its execution depending on its timing.

Anyways, for us, I’d still prefer regeneration because any damage we do take tends to really stick to us.

Spiked Armor
Gain 5 seconds of retaliation when you take more then 10% of your life in damage. (10 second cool-down.)
Gain health when you hit a target. (Heals for 80 health per hit at level 80.)
(Since retaliation counts as a hit, you heal from it as well.)

or

Gain 5 seconds of retaliation and protection when you take more then 10% of your life in damage. (10 second cool-down.)

Hammers need “something.”

I say shave protection down to 20% and give us protection.

I be happier if I could also get poison in one of my weapons or utilities or anywhere! So many utilities that thiefs have seems so useless as a thief, yet as a warrior I would do so many wonders with em!

Daecollo.9578:

Gain 5 seconds of retaliation and protection when you take more then 10% of your life in damage. (10 second cool-down.)

Yay, 2x Rune of Earth, 2x Rune of Monk, 2x Rune of Water and you get 100% uptime on protection if you trigger that thing.

Also, I think your wording there could use some fixing. Right now it sounds like we’d get Protection for losing 10% HP at any time, so long as the effect is not in cooldown. In comparison, effects like Instinctual Response specify that it has to be in a single hit. Also notice that Instinctual Response has a 60s cooldown on a 4s effect. You’re proposing a 10s cooldown on a 5s effect.

Olba.5376:

Daecollo.9578:

Gain 5 seconds of retaliation and protection when you take more then 10% of your life in damage. (10 second cool-down.)

Yay, 2x Rune of Earth, 2x Rune of Monk, 2x Rune of Water and you get 100% uptime on protection if you trigger that thing.

Also, I think your wording there could use some fixing. Right now it sounds like we’d get Protection for losing 10% HP at any time, so long as the effect is not in cooldown. In comparison, effects like Instinctual Response specify that it has to be in a single hit. Also notice that Instinctual Response has a 60s cooldown on a 4s effect. You’re proposing a 10s cooldown on a 5s effect.

Your forgetting that IR isn’t a grand master trait, its a minor trait. Its also one of thieves worst traits, it kills them more then helps them, and your forgetting that the hit has to take away more then 10% of there life to proc it, meaning it procs after you take a huge hit. Even if you had x2 Runes of Monk/Water, 30 in vitality, x2 runes of water, you would still only have 70% Boon Duration, (meaning it would last 8.5 seconds.)

60 trait points, all your runes for /almost/ 100% uptime of protection sounds fair to me, it also doesn’t proc less you take over 10% damage, meaning it won’t proc off condition specs easilly.

Your also forgetting all the ‘boon hate.’ going around now.

Protection boon is equivalent to 50% more armor

LieutenantGoogle.7326:

Protection boon is equivalent to 50% more armor

Actually more like 80-90%.

Daecollo.9578:

LieutenantGoogle.7326:

Protection boon is equivalent to 50% more armor

Actually more like 80-90%.

if you are just calculating toughness then its around there, but i was calculating total armor

You want protection?ok so you can have the same hp pool of the guardian if you want it , I think that warrior can’t have more power – more hp – all the weapons and protection too… Well you can have it too but if Anet want that I think that they can delete the Guardian-class.

Cloud Stryfe.4058:

You want protection?ok so you can have the same hp pool of the guardian if you want it , I think that warrior can’t have more power – more hp – all the weapons and protection too… Well you can have it too but if Anet want that I think that they can delete the Guardian-class.

The guardians better trait placement, better traits, and superior skills and condition removal make up for the protection.

giving warriors protection wouldn’t make guardians obsolete. That’s such a garbage argument. E.a.D.F.

Cloud Stryfe.4058:

You want protection?ok so you can have the same hp pool of the guardian if you want it , I think that warrior can’t have more power – more hp – all the weapons and protection too… Well you can have it too but if Anet want that I think that they can delete the Guardian-class.

If you think giving warriors a little bit of protection in a Major or grandmaster trait would break the guardian class then I don’t know how you play guardian (if you even do). I have much respect for guardians. Right now anet believes them to be in a pretty balanced spot, the only thing that i think they need to work on for guardian is the zeal trait line as it is pretty lacking. But over all they are one of the best classes around. Tell me how you think that giving warriors protection would make the Guardian-class obsolete? Warriors can not provide the amount of support, boons, sustained tanking, that guardians have.

immunity to conditions in a stance form along with a buff to other stances to make them more vialbe (I know this isnt a boon per say but its what the warrior needs after all )

A lot of great suggestions so far, keep them coming. I really liked the idea of implementing deep wound from Guild-wars 1. Maybe we could see some Dev feed back if we keep going.

Cloud Stryfe.4058:

You want protection?ok so you can have the same hp pool of the guardian if you want it , I think that warrior can’t have more power – more hp – all the weapons and protection too… Well you can have it too but if Anet want that I think that they can delete the Guardian-class.

Not quite, I trade my what ? 5k more hp if spec for it for aegis and protection any day. Guardians got better heals, better utilities, better animations, better boons, better condition management, better sustainable damage…eh ok delete the warrior class already…

Lol people have you ever played a warrior full shout with soldier’s runes? He can heal more than a guardian , like 1500 for shout (instead of about 1000 of the guardian) and loose 1 condition for shout with a less recoil of skills respect a HE -shout guardian.Shout builds are the 2 most used on competitive WvW.Warrior can use Mending for healing skills that heal more than shelter (that is the healing skill that guardians use more) and cure more 2 conditions.So in this way you have a lot of removing condition with this build.The different of Hp pool for this 2 classes (8 k hp of difference) is just for the use of protection that guardian have.So if you want protection too find me a reason why a guardian (that buff the other too with his protection , it is not a self buff!!!) don’t need more hp…

Cloud Stryfe.4058:

Lol people have you ever played a warrior full shout with soldier’s runes? He can heal more than a guardian , like 1500 for shout (instead of about 1000 of the guardian) and loose 1 condition for shout with a less recoil of skills respect a HE -shout guardian.

Try dodge healing for nearly the same amount every 5s, plus regen, plus protection, plus virtue heals, plus all the other crazy stuff they can get like wall of reflection. Warrior healing isn’t even close to Guardian healing (though War can get superior passive self-heals).

Yaki.9563:

Cloud Stryfe.4058:

Lol people have you ever played a warrior full shout with soldier’s runes? He can heal more than a guardian , like 1500 for shout (instead of about 1000 of the guardian) and loose 1 condition for shout with a less recoil of skills respect a HE -shout guardian.

Try dodge healing for nearly the same amount every 5s, plus regen, plus protection, plus virtue heals, plus all the other crazy stuff they can get like wall of reflection. Warrior healing isn’t even close to Guardian healing (though War can get superior passive self-heals).

pretty much this.

I run a guardian that roll heals for more then any warrior can get with shouts. Plus I run runes of energy so i just swap between weapons and get 4 heals for about 1600 all while dodging, not taking damage, not even using a utility. I’ve never fought a warrior and even had the slightest thought of “oh he was kinda tanky” or even" he was healing for alot" Because it just doesn’t happen. Warrior tanks are jokes honestly.

People I have more than 15 k kill on wvw done all with my guardian , I know how it works my class , I heal my self and allies for 500hp (not 1500 +) every time I dodge and look again…my self AND ALLIES. Bacon if you play a build with healing power surely is a tank build …useless in mass pvp like wvw (with 50-60 people vs other 50) because you do too much little damage.In WvW you need to be Balanced , with good damage mitigation but a little bit of damage too and for this warrior is better , I really don’t know if you really have done wvw or only spvp.Try a 10 vs 10 vs ten warriors with shout build and hammer with stun aoe and you will see how much a warrior is a better front-line soldier even without the same buff off guardian.A walking wall guardian in wvw is like a berserker one…USELESS!

Could it be a new effect, like Mesmer distortion?

Leo G.4501:

Could it be a new effect, like Mesmer distortion?

Yes it can. Which ever you want to suggest. Everything is open to discussion

Protection. There’s no reason that defense warriors shouldn’t be as tanky as guardians, we spend the same amount of points in our defense-oriented line. But it needs to come from a deep defense trait (minor or major) to keep it out of reach of full-offense builds.

Name: Counter
Effect: Upon receiving direct damage, the attacker is knocked down for 1 second (floated for 1/2 second). Melee range.
Visual: A transparent wave pulses from the Warrior’s body.
Notes: Acts as an extra direct attack that does no damage. Can be blocked. Cannot be evaded. Hard countered by blind and stability.

Skills
-Arcing Slice (Greatsword) = Strike your foe with an uppercut and gain fury. Can counter one attacker (duration 2sec).

-Fierce Blow (Hammer) = Weaken your foe with a fierce blow. Can counter one attacker (duration 1 sec).

-Backbreaker (Hammer) = Knock down your foe. Has a chance (50%) to counter any attackers (duration 1.5 sec).

-Whirling Axe (Axe off-hand) = Spin and attack nearby foes. You can move while spinning. Has a chance (50%) to counter attackers through its channel (3.25sec).

-Pulverize (Mace 3rd auto) = Thrash your foe, leaving them weakened. Has a chance (50%) to counter any foes (1sec).

-Hamstring (Sword main-hand) = Cripple your foe with a precise slash. Can counter a foe (2sec).

-Impale (Sword off-hand) = Throw your sword at your foe and apply multiple stacks of bleeding over time. Has a chance of countering the target (50%) while they are impaled (and attacking you).

-Tsunami Slash (Spear) = Spin forward and strike foes along the way. Has a chance (50%) to counter attackers (2.75sec)

-Rampage (Elite) = Has a 25% chance to counter for its duration.

Traits
Stick and Move (Strength) = Get a damage bonus when endurance is not full. Counters do damage (based on Precision).

Opportunist (Arms) = Gain Fury when you immobilize or counter a target.

Thick Skin (Defense) = Extra armor when health is above 90%. Take 15% less damage from a countered attack.

Sure-Footed (Defense) = Increases stance duration by 25%. You have a chance to counter (25%) while using a stance.

Desperate Power (Tactics moved to Master) = You do 20% extra damage under 25% health. Have a reduced chance of countering ranged attacks (full counter chance turns to 50% for ranged, 50% turns to 25% for ranged, 25% turns to 12% for ranged).

Ranged counters take the form of a homing shockwave projectile that can be blocked or reflected but not evaded with a 900 range.

Protection is awesome.

I get alot of access to it on my mesmer. 30 points in chaos stealth skill and you can get it to stack 2 times, mass invis possible 3 times.

Dogged march proc protection instead of regen or Dolyak signet gives protection instead of stability. If they do give Dolyak signet the stun breaker as Jon Peters was saying I can’t see a reason to take balance stance anymore. 180 toughness and stability and stun breaker unless they want use to be stability warriors with balance stance, dolyak, last stand trait.

oZii.2864:

Protection is awesome.

I get alot of access to it on my mesmer. 30 points in chaos stealth skill and you can get it to stack 2 times, mass invis possible 3 times.

Dogged march proc protection instead of regen or Dolyak signet gives protection instead of stability. If they do give Dolyak signet the stun breaker as Jon Peters was saying I can’t see a reason to take balance stance anymore. 180 toughness and stability and stun breaker unless they want use to be stability warriors with balance stance, dolyak, last stand trait.

Protection on dogged march instead of regen would be great. And if dolyak signet gave protection instead of stability that would be great as well. Just a little bit of protection would help in a fight where I am being focused. It wouldn’t really give me any sustainability like heals but it would be useful enough. My thief which uses a healing build with only 13.8k health can last much much longer than my warrior. I wouldn’t mind other ways for warriors to heal if protection isn’t an option.

Azrayl.4936:

oZii.2864:

Protection is awesome.

I get alot of access to it on my mesmer. 30 points in chaos stealth skill and you can get it to stack 2 times, mass invis possible 3 times.

Dogged march proc protection instead of regen or Dolyak signet gives protection instead of stability. If they do give Dolyak signet the stun breaker as Jon Peters was saying I can’t see a reason to take balance stance anymore. 180 toughness and stability and stun breaker unless they want use to be stability warriors with balance stance, dolyak, last stand trait.

Protection on dogged march instead of regen would be great. And if dolyak signet gave protection instead of stability that would be great as well. Just a little bit of protection would help in a fight where I am being focused. It wouldn’t really give me any sustainability like heals but it would be useful enough. My thief which uses a healing build with only 13.8k health can last much much longer than my warrior. I wouldn’t mind other ways for warriors to heal if protection isn’t an option.

Careful there.

The signets are a dangerous beast. Deep Strike and Signet Mastery make it so that you only need a handful of signets to be perceived as “good” before you end up with a 5 signet warrior.

And I’m not convinced with your Dogged March idea either. 30% uptime on Protection would mean a +15% boost to your effective HP. That’s quite a lot for a 10 point trait. Certainly far more than the 200 Toughness that Turtle’s Defense gave.

Olba.5376:

Azrayl.4936:

oZii.2864:

Protection is awesome.

I get alot of access to it on my mesmer. 30 points in chaos stealth skill and you can get it to stack 2 times, mass invis possible 3 times.

Dogged march proc protection instead of regen or Dolyak signet gives protection instead of stability. If they do give Dolyak signet the stun breaker as Jon Peters was saying I can’t see a reason to take balance stance anymore. 180 toughness and stability and stun breaker unless they want use to be stability warriors with balance stance, dolyak, last stand trait.

Protection on dogged march instead of regen would be great. And if dolyak signet gave protection instead of stability that would be great as well. Just a little bit of protection would help in a fight where I am being focused. It wouldn’t really give me any sustainability like heals but it would be useful enough. My thief which uses a healing build with only 13.8k health can last much much longer than my warrior. I wouldn’t mind other ways for warriors to heal if protection isn’t an option.

Careful there.

The signets are a dangerous beast. Deep Strike and Signet Mastery make it so that you only need a handful of signets to be perceived as “good” before you end up with a 5 signet warrior.

And I’m not convinced with your Dogged March idea either. 30% uptime on Protection would mean a +15% boost to your effective HP. That’s quite a lot for a 10 point trait. Certainly far more than the 200 Toughness that Turtle’s Defense gave.

Well, timers could be adjusted for it to make more sense without being overpowered, but I was just meaning that having a short period of protection makes more sense to me than the small scaled healing from regen.

instead of protection I think giving warriors 10% dmg reduction per bar of adrenaline would be pretty cool.

cleadus.9378:

instead of protection I think giving warriors 10% dmg reduction per bar of adrenaline would be pretty cool.

Good grief...they could have perma protection basically. /smh

I don’t believe Warriors need any other boons but to rework some of their defensive abilities to offer more absorption.

An example would be Shield Stance. I think for a 30 second cooldown, the 3 seconds is a little under power. Just a thought but why not increase it to 5 seconds and have Sure-Footed actually have an affect on the duration as well making it 6.5 seconds long.

The thing is warriors need a little something to absorb some hits and giving warriors protection or a better version of regen is too similar to a guardian in my eyes. Give them more abilities like what mace MH and sword OH offer in regards to a block but don’t let it be 1 attack but 2-3 attacks and let the counter be worth while.

Players that fight a warrior toe-toe should know that it should be a difficult fight and be punished for it. I want my combat on my warrior to be engaging. Not dubbed down by the implementation of a passive regen or protection buff.

And while I’m at it, fix the Weakness condition to reduce endurance regen by 100% and not allow that person to crit. Great counter to high crit builds while still allowing a small amount of damage in instead of burst.

For me that’d have to be protection too, either that or more retaliation to better be able to fight classes like rangers

so do other classes that have access to protection function too much like a guardian as well? /facepalm E.a.D.F.

STEALTH

endless, endless stealth.

Bearhugger.4326:

Protection. There’s no reason that defense warriors shouldn’t be as tanky as guardians, we spend the same amount of points in our defense-oriented line. But it needs to come from a deep defense trait (minor or major) to keep it out of reach of full-offense builds.

Rangers with just 15 in wilderness survival, a minor trait, gain protection just on a dodge roll.. Eng’s with just 10 in the Inventions line gain protection for 3sec on a crit with just a 20sec cooldown and with only 10 in the Alchemy line can gain protection for 3sec when CC’d with a 5sec cooldown. Seems like perma protection to me, and thats just 20 points spent. Giving a warrior protection on a utility ability doesn’t seem too over the top at all.

It just seems more classes have alot easier access to protection while we don’t have any.