Guild Wars 2

One of the many problem warriors have posted on this forum is Forceful Greatsword.

This trait does way too many things for a master trait, giving 10% damage, 20% cd, and might on Crit all on a single weapon. Compare this to Axe Mastery in the GM traits and you realize there is no comparison, especially when Berserker’s Power is competing with it.

One of the suggestions made was nerfing FGS to not give might on crit but adding it to Phalanx Strength, thus making every weapon a might generator and eliminating the mandatory use of GS and taking the Strength line (though, you might want to take it anyway depending on your build).

But there are many implications for this change.

• Would anyone ever use GS if it was changed like this? Imo Warrior’s GS is a pretty terrible weapon with its only redeeming attribute being FGS and some amazing mobility.

• By changing this trait, wouldn’t condi warriors be way too powerful because they can be condi and be a might stacker? I’d imagine Sword/Torch Berserker would be ridiculous.

• Would offhand Axe be a useful weapon or will it still see no use? 15 hits with maybe some quickness would seem to be quite powerful.

Greatsword still has good damage, but I would love to spread the might-stacking to other build/weapon choices. Not to mention, a blanket +10% damage on an already high-damage weapon is unnecessary.

I look at Hammer’s trait and just.. sigh. It’s so pathetic, unless you have a thief friend offhand pistol. Conditional damage boost on a low-damage weapon that it can’t even take advantage of because it’s so slow.

To bring greatsword in line, shift Might on crit to Phalanx Strength, give the trigger a 1 second internal cooldown, then change the Greatsword bonus to Ferocity bonus instead of +10% damage. It would still pair well with a general damage boost and Arcing Slice’s Fury effect.

With all due respect, those sound like terrible ideas to me.

1. Saying something is “too strong for a master trait” makes no sense ever since we moved to a system in which you get access to all traits in whatever line you choose
2. Moving the might stacking to Phalanx Strength would kill the dps for the significant number of warriors running gs in competitive play, where warrior is struggling the most.
3. Putting a 1 second ICD on the trait is a straight-out hard nerf to every weapon, not just the gs, with no rationale beyond trying to make the gs as bad at generating might as the other weapons (but making those other weapons weaker in the process too)
4. Moving the 10% damage buff to a Ferocity bonus unnecessarily ties the weapon to maintaining precision as a core stat. Granted, most power-based builds will do this anyway, but this makes that mandatory for no reason

If you just want to be able to generate might with other weapons because you have some sort of aesthetic objection to using a greatsword, then just make the trait grant might on critical hits generally (like how Shield Mastery works for sword5 and mace2).

If you just wish Axe Mastery or Merciless Hammer were more powerful, then look for ways to buff them.

It seems crazy to me to seriously be looking at warrior traits right now and saying, “yeah, we should really nerf those”. To nerf the class as a whole just to reduce the opportunity cost of choosing one weapon over another seems even crazier.

Agreed with the above. The only time a warrior’s weapon trait should be nerfed right now is if its functionality gets added to the base weapon.

We’re not in a position for “lets make incentive to use other weapons by nerfing the overused ones”
If anything, its the other way around.

Choppy.4183:

1. Saying something is “too strong for a master trait” makes no sense ever since we moved to a system in which you get access to all traits in whatever line you choose

There is still a tiered system. GM traits are supposed to now be “gamechangers” that are supposed to change the way you play your class but not necessarily outright give you power. At least, that’s what they said during the trait revamp preview.

I just feel that the relationship Phalanx Strength and Forceful Greatsword has is so intertwined that they might as well be one trait. Like, when you have PS Warrior, people will use GS. It isn’t because GS just happens to be more effective or has a better utility or anything, but rather it’s the only weapon with a trait that makes the Phalanx build work.

I feel like if the might generation was moved but FGS had something like Revenant’s sword trait (stacking damage buff), it wouldn’t hurt PvP GS but also allow for more flexible weapon choices.

A 1 second ICD is a terrible suggestion that I keep seeing on this board. I don’t think people understand why PS Warrior is the way it is. Adding an ICD would make it a superfluous sigil.

I also agree that the traits seem to give way too much power while the actual weapons themselves are in a terrible place.

Axe Mastery vs Berserker’s Power. If you, for some reason, use 2 axes for the 300 ferocity bonus, it is only 20% extra damage on critical hits whereas Berserker’s Power gives a flat 20% damage increase with a very manageable uptime and it applies to all weapons, not shoehorning you into double axes. How can a very specific trait like Axe Mastery ever compete with an encompassing trait like Berserker’s Power? Meanwhile, GS can get both their weapon trait plus BP. Axes skills are all pretty terrible other than 1 and 2 and adds very little utility. If, for example, Axe skills adds bonus Adrenaline as a unique baseline skill fact for the axe (similar to life force generation for Necros on specific weapons), the baseline Axe would be in a much better place than relying on an untakeable trait.

Guardians seem to be using GS even without Zealous Blade in some cases. In fact, you could argue that all Guardian weapons have a place and are usable without their corresponding weapon trait.

Throdin.8061:

We’re not in a position for “let’s make incentive to use other weapons by nerfing the overused ones”
If anything, its the other way around.

Far too much truth in that statement. With where warrior is right now, in order to really “break” the constant need for Greatsword, other weapon sets need improvement.

Axe gets two applicable buffs, on top of being the other “high damage” weapon option for power warriors. Assuming you don’t go warhorn/shield offhand, at least :P But Dual Wielding and a ferocity boost per Axe is pretty decent.
But it’s selfish and pale in comparison to Greatsword/Phalanx Strength.

Blade Master gives bonus crit chance in each reach and can still benefit from Dual Wielding.
But it still pales in comparison to GS/PS Might stacking.

Shield’s benefit is very conditional. Greatsword’s bonus is faceroll.

Mace requires something to be hard-CC’d before it matters, and the benefit is a piddly small %-jump in damage from vulnerability. Greatsword’s bonus is powerful and faceroll.

Hammer can’t even use its own trait because the weapon is so slow. It gets, at best, one (1) autoattack at a weak +20% bonus before a stun ends. Heightened Focus ends up being better because it’s more reliable. Greatsword’s bonus is powerful and faceroll.

That’s the trend. In two traits, Greatsword gets a ton of damage and group support for more damage. I mean, I know ANet has a kitten for greatswords (Mesmer, Guardian, Eternity/Twilight/Sunrise, Reaper), but it’s seriously overplayed, and Warrior ends up locked into it for any meaningful PvE play.

I’m certainly open to suggestions on ideas to forward to the devs, but it’s going to have to be absurdly broken to compete with GS/PS.

@GenoGar
I know they said that, but look at the reality of the situation. In this thread alone a Master trait has been described as way too powerful in relation to two different Grandmasters, all of which were revamped in the run-up to the “gamechangers” comment.

There are plenty of other examples, including Adept and minor traits that are better than Grandmasters, and that’s not just true of the warrior.

I also see the relationship between FG and PS, which is why they’re always paired. But I think you’re speaking very much from a pve perspective. Moving the might generation from FG to PS would rip the core out of a number of builds where warrior is struggling the most, for what seems to be little reason than the convenience of people who can afford to run Tactics to take PS, and only so they don’t feel as compelled to use a greatsword for unclear reasons.

As for Axe Mastery, I’ve posted that very explanation to people who felt AM instead of BP was a better choice for some reason. But I think you’re going down the wrong route here… Forceful Greatsword isn’t the problem, AM is (among a number of things).

If warriors were strong relative to other classes, then looking at rebalancing within the class or even giving a bit of a nerf might make sense. But the warrior is seriously underpowered relative to most other classes at the moment in most aspects of the game.

The greatsword being too powerful just isn’t true in relation to the rest of the game, it’s only true in relation to most of our other weapons.

I have to strongly disagree with this for reasons Choppy stated. In PvP warrior is in a bad shape, all you’re proposing amounts to a huge nerf for all GS wars in PvP. I wish I’d write more but I don’t really feel like writing a wall of text, but if forceful GS undergoes either of the changes you propose its gonna nerf it quite a bit in PvP. Right now, GS in PvP can only stack might when cleaving downed anyways. Axe mastery on the other hand is garbage…for a grandmaster. Its VERY bad, from a pvp stand point, and I assume its the same from a pve standpoint since the loss of not having berserker’s power is MUCH greater. Compare our weapon traits to something like guardian…like bro… >.> focus mastery and right hand strength are adept traits, and they’re kitten amazing we’re not really in a place where we should be asking for “fixes” on our class that results in nerfs to current builds that are not even “great” when compared to everything else. We should ask other weapon traits to be buffed and actually placed in lines that make sense!!! I mean look at mace, traits that synergize well with mace are scattered over defense, strength and arms…

I prefer remove 10% damage buff but buff GS and spear baseline damage 10% instead.

Then forceful greatsword trait will be on pair with other master trait.

I wish axe could stack might like GS, id prob never use GS again

Forceful greatsword has always been a problematic trait. Master level, giving both 20% cooldown reduction on gs/spear, but also might on crits with no internal cooldown is huge. I really don’t understand why Arenanet needed to add 10% unconditional buff to this, because overpowered traits like this limit build versatility. My suggestion: remove this 10% buff, but keep the trait otherwise as it is, since warriors are not in that good spot in meta.

Now everybody and their uncle is running GS. In spvp/wvwvw roaming GS/hammer is probably the most common warrior build. In pve GS has always been by far the most common weapon used by warriors.

In my opinion GS does not need any buffs at the moment. I know GS #5 (rush) is hit or miss, but the weapon offers both massive DPS, decent burst, lots of mobility, ranged cripple, evade, permanent fury (with arcing slice) and might stacking (with forceful greatsword). Instead I would hope Arenanet would look at other underused weapon related traits and warrior weapons.

Warrior has several other weapon combinations which simply suck:
x/axe (axe/axe, mace/axe, sword/axe)
axe/warhorn
mace/warhorn

Sword/warhorn has one niche usage: running. All the warhorn nerfs really made it a weak weapon. Rifle with berserker/gunflame is one trick pony.

This leaves warrior with several solid weapon of choices:
greatsword
hammer (still the best AoE CC weapon)
longbow
axe/x
x/shield

sword/x and x/sword are okay at their current state in meta.

I hope the underused/weak weapons and weapon combinations would be addressed. I know a lot players will come to this threat to defend their favorite weapon: greatsword, but it really doesn’t make sense to turn this game into greatsword wars 2. Reapers made most necros use GS and GS has always been #1 weapon of choice for mesmers.

It makes me sad to see that people can look at the state the warrior is in right now, and still be calling for changes that are effectively needless nerfs. I am speaking from a PvP/WvW perspective.

Is Forceful Greatsword significantly better than the other weapon traits? Undoubtedly yes. Should it be nerfed down to make other traits seem more viable by comparison? Absolutely not. Why? Because warrior is struggling even with Forceful Greatsword the way it is. Nerfing it in any way would not improve the warrior, or suddenly make other builds viable, it would only serve to remove one of the few things the profession has going for it at the moment and make it worse across the board. Forceful Greatsword should be the standard to which other weapon traits are balanced, not the other way around.

I think that part of the problem is that people are still hung up on the raw damage provided by Hundred Blades. If that is indeed the case, then let me share some insight on the topic.

Hundred Blades + Forceful Greatsword in the current state of the game deals an average of only around 7k damage (berserker amulet) to a heavy armor target, provided that no other buffs/debuffs apart from the might from the trait are applied. Just for additional clarification: that is a rough middle-range average based off of minimal testing on a Heavy Golem in Heart of the Mists (I encourage you to try it for yourself). HB can deal a few thousand more or less than that depending on how many hits in the channel crit. Keep in mind, however, that berserker amulet alone provides only around 50% crit chance, so it is just as likely for a hit to not crit (and do subpar damage) as it is for a hit to crit (and do the kind of damage we want).

In case my point has not come across, 7k damage is…less than ideal (I would personally go so far as to say it was pitiful) for the cost of the skill. Hundred Blades is a 130 range, maximum of 3 targets cleave, 3.5 second channeled skill that roots the warrior on cast. I can guarantee that most players will not get hit by the full channel of HB in any but the most abysmal of circumstances (AFK, downed, heavily CC’d with no stunbreaks). Not to mention that the final hit of HB does the most damage, so not landing that final hit is a significant damage loss. There are many other skills in the game that can deal similar amounts of damage in PvP, but are much much easier to land. Heck, even warrior’s own Whirling Axe (Axe 5) with it’s +50% damage buff in sPvP deals similar damage while still being mobile. You don’t see anyone complaining about that skill, though.

So no, HB – even with Forceful Greatsword – is not the crazy/massive “end-all be-all” damage skill it once was. Most players will not get hit by the full channel, and even if they do (congratulations to the warrior that pulled that off, by the way), many professions in the current meta have tools/builds that would give them a fairly good chance of surviving it and giving back in kind. More than one Reaper has facetanked one of my HB and survived, for instance.

The fact of the matter is that GS is taken because it is currently the only warrior weapon to provide a somewhat decent balance between utility and damage and not because Forceful Greatsword buffs its DPS to the high heavens. Comparing it to the “one trick pony” setup of every other weapon except for Longbow and maybe Sword should make the reason why it’s the number 1 choice of most power warriors obvious.

Deniara Devious.3948:

snip

Hm, yeah great idea dude!!!!!

Warrior has A WEAPON SEMI WORKING. That’s just a way toooooo stronkkkkkkk. Need nurfs, nuff said.

See to much Wars GS/Hammer HULK SMASHhHHh.

Me sad, me wanna pew pew with Bow, me wanna lick Warhorn.

Arcade.8901:

Deniara Devious.3948:

snip

Hm, yeah great idea dude!!!!!

Warrior has A WEAPON SEMI WORKING. That’s just a way toooooo stronkkkkkkk. Need nurfs, nuff said.

See to much Wars GS/Hammer HULK SMASHhHHh.

Me sad, me wanna pew pew with Bow, me wanna lick Warhorn.

Didn’t Deniara just say the weapons (other than gs) should be buffed? I think you should reread the post.

taking gs trait when using gs is op now? what?

Choppy.4183:

Arcade.8901:

Deniara Devious.3948:

snip

Hm, yeah great idea dude!!!!!

Warrior has A WEAPON SEMI WORKING. That’s just a way toooooo stronkkkkkkk. Need nurfs, nuff said.

See to much Wars GS/Hammer HULK SMASHhHHh.

Me sad, me wanna pew pew with Bow, me wanna lick Warhorn.

Didn’t Deniara just say the weapons (other than gs) should be buffed? I think you should reread the post.

I did, i m just tiered of warriors who try to nerf warriors who already nerfed to the ground.

Adrenaline decay ? Yeah sure ! Warriors who miss a burst should be punished, promotes skillful gameplay they said. Where we at now ? Everyone and their uncle asks to do something with Adrenaline decay.

Hammer does to much damage on top of it’s control. Yeah.. now hammer is nerfed to the ground with its damage.

Warriors and Rush and movement skills to OP compared to ports pls nurf. Now our movement skills are nerfed.

Warriors have just way to much sustain. Yeah we do ! Take it shouts nerf warhorn nerf.

Mace Shield / GS build ? Was stronk warriors supported nerf.

S/S condi build ? Was stronk warriors supported nerf.

So where warriors at with those geniuses ?

If he wants his axe off hand or mace off hand or w/e off hand to be buffed why wouldn’t he create a thread about it ? GS needs buffs if what not nerfs.

Why i don’t see … like CRAZY mesmers thread about. Awwww let’s buff pistol so i can use it with my scepter in condi build by nerfing the trait…. related to GS.

Blade trail ? It doesn’t even worth a dodge.
Rush most bugged movement skill which is affected by cripple, chill, quickness.
100b ? Even mobs have IQ now to just walk from it, not even talking about pvp where your enemies are not potatoes. Where you have to bite every dodge, every stun break, stability to even land it. And if you don’t have control ? He ll just walk away from it.
Auto Attack ? It’s even weaker then Revenants sword auto.
WW is the only skill which is very useful.
Arcing slice, is meh, due to HP and Range conditions. Fury u take fury like else where… like rune of the pack.

It’s not even the highest DPS weapon in warriors disposal it’s more like utility weapon with okish damage.

It’s even stupid to have the amount of weapons choices warrior has with out possible 3 rd weapon set. And trait limitations. If warriors would have had less weapons at the first place it would be easier to balance them equally out.

Mesmers GS… okay ! Mesmer GS / S / X for power builds. Staff / scepter for condi builds. Both work. They are not forced to take GS.

Necroes. GS its a pve weapon for them more then a PVP one, which is ironically by it’s damage and pull component more suitable to warrior then a necro.

And i m realist, it’s easier for anet to read it, to nerf it, give nothing in return, instead of redesigning 50 % of weapon choices.

In response to OP:

I think it much more effective to buff underperforming weapons than to nerf the decent ones.

But, I would support your suggestion of taking might on crit off Forceful Greatsword, if, as you suggest, might on crit gets added to Phalanx Strength for ALL weapons.

@Thuggernaut
Why do that instead of leaving the might stacking where it is but opening it to all weapons, like the might and reflect from Shield Mastery on mace 2 and sword 5?

Moving the might to PS unnecessarily nerfs most wvw and pvp gs builds, with no obvious gain except making it so PS warriors don’t need to go into Strength. I’ve not once heard anyone say traiting Strength was a problem for PS warriors.

How about fixing warrior instead of defending this broken trait? Seriously, you guys are clinging to this ridiculous thing and justifying it because the rest of warrior is currently underperforming.

It’s a lot like people trying to say Mastery farming in CoF shouldn’t be nerfed because all the other options are too slow.

I guess I’m irritated partly because ANet has no problem nerfing traits that almost no one uses (Quick Breathing for example) but not only do they leave the best weapon trait alone, on the most overused weapon, but place it in the best trait line so it doesn’t compete with other must have traits. The trait as it is is better than any GM trait, yet there it happily sits in the master slot so that the GS bandwagoners can continue running around with their eternities w/o having to give up the 20% damage GM strength trait. ANet to everyone: GS or GTFO.

@Yaki
Have you not noticed the pages of threads dedicated to fixing the warrior, calling for buffs, or just complaining that it’s busted?

The OP dedicated this thread specifically to nerfing FG, and people are responding to it.

Choppy.4183:

@Yaki
Have you not noticed the pages of threads dedicated to fixing the warrior, calling for buffs, or just complaining that it’s busted?

The OP dedicated this thread specifically to nerfing FG, and people are responding to it.

Short-sighted responses, imo. It’s better for the state of warriors to have this trait be nerfed so that other weapon options become relatively viable. If warrior is built 100% around a single trait (as most people here seem to be claiming), don’t you think that’s a pretty serious issue that needs to be addressed? You’d have be be deliberately argumentative to not agree that this trait not only adds more personal DPS but also group support than any other trait. Yet somehow it sits in a tier with no other decent choices making it not only vastly better than other weapon traits but with far less sacrifice to take.

Yaki.9563:

Choppy.4183:

@Yaki
Have you not noticed the pages of threads dedicated to fixing the warrior, calling for buffs, or just complaining that it’s busted?

The OP dedicated this thread specifically to nerfing FG, and people are responding to it.

Short-sighted responses, imo. It’s better for the state of warriors to have this trait be nerfed so that other weapon options become relatively viable. If warrior is built 100% around a single trait (as most people here seem to be claiming), don’t you think that’s a pretty serious issue that needs to be addressed? You’d have be be deliberately argumentative to not agree that this trait not only adds more personal DPS but also group support than any other trait. Yet somehow it sits in a tier with no other decent choices making it not only vastly better than other weapon traits but with far less sacrifice to take.

Umm… most of us have responded to the broader issues on other threads. Nerfing FG doesn’t make the other weapons more viable, it makes gs as unviable as the rest.

You’re making the same mistakes others have been making. Our gs isn’t OP even with FG relative to the rest of the game, it’s just that our other weapons and traits (among other things) are weak.

Nerfing the gs makes the situation worse, not better. Axe builds or whatever don’t get more viable if gs is nerfed, it just makes gs a less viable (and less optimal) option.

Like I said, Just baseline 10% damage to greatsword and remove the 10% damage buff from forceful greatsword, now we have viable greatsword, and a nerfed trait.

The trait can go like this:
Gain might on critical hit (all weapon), also reduce 20% CD for greatsword and spear.

Everyone happy.

GenoGar.5497:

One of the many problem warriors have posted on this forum is “Forceful Greatsword”.

???!!!!

NOPE

GenoGar.5497:

…

The main issues are the synergy and many purposes that GS actually has compared to other weapons:
-The overall damage, might generation in PvE
-The mobility and kiting ability with Whirwind Attack, Blade Trail, Rush and the spike damage with Hundred Blades in PvP
-Traits like FGS, BP and PS work perfectly with it
-etc.

The funny part is that with all of that Warrior still doesn’t seem that powerful compared to some other classes.
The other weapon types should be brought up more to work like GS does, if anything. They need to serve multiple purposes as well and have great traits to back them up.

I really hope that we won’t get another easy response like this:
How to make people stop using the most viable and powerful weapon or utility type?… simply nerf it across the board.
Of course, that problems with the other weapons will still be there and people will still use the thing you nerfed…

Don’t want to see another “Cantrip nerf” (from way back). All it did was make them worse but still force people to use them in PvP.

So hilarious, OP wants his condi build to be stronger, to have a reason to go in tactics to grab burning arrows and to be might bot. Which will only make already strong condi build for PVE even stronger.

And people jump in with theory craft that a trait should be nerfed because other choices are trash, and other weapons are trash.

So logically Warriors want good weapons and traits to be trash, so everything else wouldn’t be so bad on it’s background.

Even Master tier talks, when we have a minor which worth a tree alone.

Good thing about FG, that this is a build choice, not like Disc and Defense for PvP, where you are forced into it. But yeah we are short sighted… HAHA

Tactics deservse a buff. Our def and disipline line are too dominant in pvp build and that hurt build diversity a lot more than everything. Who don’t want to take berserker without def or dis line? We are just giving up too much without def and dis.

Berserker 1.0 won’t lacking direct damage buff if we can take strength. But end up most berserker build giving up strength because it is the only option and this is why build diversity is killed.

One idea is to buff tactics on either condition removal or strong team suvival support in order to give warrior another survival option other than def.

FS should get changed into more generic trait that works for with any weapon but include GS and Spear CD reduction. 10% damage buff should be baseline. Then you can have the trait for the might gain with any weapon of your choice.

I really don’t get it .

When everyone now saying that Warrior is at the bottom of the barrel and still…. we get threads like this !.

I mean really Forceful Greatsword is a “Warrior Problem” ??!! and what funny… Warriors QQed about it ?!

No dude, that is totally wrong.

If there is a change needed for FGS is to BUFF it, because 5s might on crit is nothing in PvP/WvW and almost instantly disappear once you swap GS off unless you invest in Might/Boon duration runes or food/gear in WvW.

FGS is fine but GS is Not , Rush is in a dire need of a fix more than anything else.

Azure.8670:

I wish axe could stack might like GS, id prob never use GS again

That would make Axe OP, Axe already a very strong warrior weapon even with no traiting.

Not long ago, Axe was the PvE meta and even was for a while a PvP meta and always was and still a WvW roaming meta

Crossaber.8934:

FS should get changed into more generic trait that works for with any weapon but include GS and Spear CD reduction. 10% damage buff should be baseline. Then you can have the trait for the might gain with any weapon of your choice.

That will break some warrior weapons and the others wont see a difference.

Mace too slow and with 5s might that needs a crit wont make much difference, Axe will be broken OP, just Axe AA would be enough to max to 25 might stacks then add Whirling Axe, +combined with how Axe hits like a truck is just a recipe to nerf Axe in the future.

Longbow does not need FGS, with it it will be OP, Sword will benefit from Flurry to gain might greatly, i can see it work on Sword just on sword.

bottom of the line, FGS is fine no need to change anything about it, need to fix Rush, Physical Skills and Make Fast Hand + Warrior Sprint a baseline trait, that what warrior need imho.

Juba.8406:

Azure.8670:

I wish axe could stack might like GS, id prob never use GS again

That would make Axe OP, Axe already a very strong warrior weapon even with no traiting.

Not long ago, Axe was the PvE meta and even was for a while a PvP meta and always was and still a WvW roaming meta

Crossaber.8934:

FS should get changed into more generic trait that works for with any weapon but include GS and Spear CD reduction. 10% damage buff should be baseline. Then you can have the trait for the might gain with any weapon of your choice.

That will break some warrior weapons and the others wont see a difference.

Mace too slow and with 5s might that needs a crit wont make much difference, Axe will be broken OP, just Axe AA would be enough to max to 25 might stacks then add Whirling Axe, +combined with how Axe hits like a truck is just a recipe to nerf Axe in the future.

Longbow does not need FGS, with it it will be OP, Sword will benefit from Flurry to gain might greatly, i can see it work on Sword just on sword.

bottom of the line, FGS is fine no need to change anything about it, need to fix Rush, Physical Skills and Make Fast Hand + Warrior Sprint a baseline trait, that what warrior need imho.

Your analysis got a point, might gain on crit with axe will be very OP. But what about FG might gain also work with 1h sword? 1h sword will benefit a lot with the might gain no matter power or condition build. The fast AA and burst can also help stack might fast.

It seems everyone has some serious reading comprehension problems. Seriously…

I do not advocate the nerfing FGS. I don’t think GS is OP.

If you look at the OP, I even have counter-arguments for discussion which everyone seemed to gloss over.

The reason I made this thread is that Phalanx Strength’s only place in a Warrior build is PS GS Warrior. It’s such an important trait but it is basically a superfluous GS trait. It is basically FGS 2.0. I think that the relationship between these 2 traits is very bad design and it goes against what Anet wanted to achieve (only 1 weapon specific trait).

The problems I see is that the base weapons on the Warrior are pretty kitten terrible. One of the solutions that I support is moving most of the power from traits into the weapons themselves (moving 10% damage from FGS into baseline in an example). Another would be changing the traits themselves (Axe Mastery and the hammer trait… ugh) It would be one step toward making a proper balance in all the weapons.

But with Phalanx Strength, by hypothetically changing it to apply to all weapons, GS would need to be changed because it is, IMO, a pretty terrible weapon other than mobility and FGS (might on crit without iCD). If PS was changed to apply to all weapons (by moving might on crit to it from FGS), PvE Warriors would have little reason to actually take GS which is a problem.

So yes, Greatsword is a problem. No, it’s not because it is OP. I’m not saying it is OP. I do not want it nerfed.

Amazing how many people stick their head in the sand and don’t think FGS is OP. It’s totally OP. It’s just that the rest of warrior sucks (apparently) so it’s ok that FGS is OP. That doesn’t make it not OP. Name another weapon specific trait in the game (not just warrior) that adds as much as a flat 10% damage, 20% cooldown, AND adds a ridiculously useful buff ability that synergizes amazingly well with another trait. Then put it in the perfect tier position so all the other strong traits are available as well. It’s not just better than any other weapon trait, it’s better than any other trait period.

Yaki.9563:

Amazing how many people stick their head in the sand and don’t think FGS is OP. It’s totally OP. It’s just that the rest of warrior sucks (apparently) so it’s ok that FGS is OP. That doesn’t make it not OP. Name another weapon specific trait in the game (not just warrior) that adds as much as a flat 10% damage, 20% cooldown, AND adds a ridiculously useful buff ability that synergizes amazingly well with another trait. Then put it in the perfect tier position so all the other strong traits are available as well. It’s not just better than any other weapon trait, it’s better than any other trait period.

You think it’s OP relative to the rest of the game, or OP relative to other warrior weapon traits?

GenoGar.5497:

FGS, FGS and FGS

I think you are giving Anet too much work which they simply wont do and will bring more harm than benefit .

So NO..

Do not fix what is NOT broken

changing FGS is the last thing warrior needs currently, There are far more serious issues need to be addressed not FGS.

How about be creative and simply give suggestion to improve each other weapon in its own ?

Yaki.9563:

OP OP OP

Amazing how People tends to forget that GW2 has TWO other modes than just PVE.

Ever heard of something called PvP or even WvW ?

Because that trait is Barely keeping the GS warrior standing there.

So please don’t break whatever left of Warrior in these modes so you can just have your “grand” time in PvE.

BTW a GS warrior in PvP/WvW never takes “Phalanx Strength” (as far as i know) , but a PvE warrior do take it, how about you discuss changing that trait instead ? , well I am not a PvE guy but seems you guys just want warrior as a Banner bot there nothing more.

I think the 10% damage from forceful greatsword should just be made baseline for the GS and the trait should just do what it used to do before the specializations update.

The trait is too powerful for the other options to look attractive because it does so much at once, but at the same time it would be silly to take any of the things it does away entirely.

Purple Miku.7032:

I think the 10% damage from forceful greatsword should just be made baseline for the GS and the trait should just do what it used to do before the specializations update.

The trait is too powerful for the other options to look attractive because it does so much at once, but at the same time it would be silly to take any of the things it does away entirely.

Yes that is what i suggested couple post ago.

GS deservse that 10% damage

Juba.8406:

BTW a GS warrior in PvP/WvW never takes “Phalanx Strength” (as far as i know) , but a PvE warrior do take it, how about you discuss changing that trait instead ? , well I am not a PvE guy but seems you guys just want warrior as a Banner bot there nothing more.

No, that’s the fun part there, you see, if they change phalanx, like OP sugest, he ll able to take Disc, Tactics, Berserk. Or he can drop and adjust to 10 sec swap with Arms/Tactics/Berserk.

Then he will take let’s say, Bow (which will give his arrows application of burning) Berserker fire filed on f1, Arcing arrow for the might, then swap to sword/axe, Flurry has high amount of hits which are potential crits, which are potential might, with burning application, then a whirlwind finisher from axe, which will do 15 hits of potential crits, with burning application via burning bolts from finisher.

Swap repeat. Insane amount of burning with insane amount of might stack application.

This kinda of buff, not to make other weapon choices viable, but to make warrior most wanted most needed via offensive support with INSANE amount of damage which simple Phalanx Warrior lack due to usage of Power Based vanilla build (which makes it balanced)

The sad, thing that warriors don’t even need it even in PVE. It’s a greed.