Guild Wars 2

While the recent changes has made Warrior/Berserker more effective, I believe that it has come at the cost of class favor. This regen based sustain is not unlike your typical Scrapper and several other builds. When i think of a Warrior I do not think of Wolverine with his healing factor.

What would give Warrior its own flavor while still being effective? Well I believe that the best way would be to make Warrior have lower healing and instead focus on taking less damage in the first place. What’s nice is that this can be accomplished by just changing some of the traits we already have.

Linking out sustain to our Burst skills is a good idea, I don’t enjoy purely passive skills and while landing a Burst isn’t some amazing feat (especially with LB), it’s more active than half of the sustain in this game currently. So my suggestions are as follows:

Adrenal Health: This is going to need a slight name change, Adrenal Fortitude maybe? The idea behind the stacks will remain the same, but instead of healing the stacks reduce incoming damage by a flat percentage. By this I mean a flat damage reduction from all sources, including conditions. The current amount of healing feels about right, so if the damage reduction is roughly equal it would probably work as well.

Defy Pain: I’ve suggested this before but I have modified it a bit. It would also give you stacks of a unique effect from landing Bursts, but it would be longer lasting and stacks higher. Each stack will give a bit of toughness. TO me this seems way more useful than getting Endure Pain, because with that Stance you simply have to trigger it then back off for a few seconds. With this you’ll simply be tough so long as you land your bursts.

These changes would theoretically make Warrior a tough bruiser that you have to wail on to take down while having a bit of healing, rather than just constantly regening health. It’s much more flavorful while still being effective.

I wouldn’t say that the new adrenal health changes the flavor of the Warrior. Regening health has always been a pretty big part of the Warrior with heal sig, not to mention Adrenal health in the first place even before the rework.
It’s the scrapper that has a Warrior flavor, not really the other way around.

If anything, having more damage absorption and less focus on health would creep on the flavor territory of the Guardian.

Nevertheless, your suggestions aren’t bad, especially the defy pain one, as it would feel less like a cheap autoactivation and more of a consistent effect that needs some effort to keep up. However it would put even more focus on landing burst skills, which are already a bit too essential for the Warrior. Not so sure on Adrenal Health, as flat damage reduction tends to be either underwhelming or overpowered depending on the amount.

While I do agree, thematically, with what you’ve proposed, I don’t think that this would necessarily be a healthy change simply because in non-1v1 scenarios, it would be all too easy for a druid or a tempest to constantly top off the warrior’s health as it’s taking far less damage than before. It might still be balanced in duels, with the damage reduction from the new trait replacing the regeneration from Adrenal Health, but unless said trait somehow also reduces incoming healing (which I would consider equally unflavorful and possibly tedious to implement), it would probably offer a significant advantage in teamfights, since you get both the damage reduction and the incoming healing as opposed to two sources of healing that cease stacking as soon as the warrior hits max health. On the flip side, if the new trait was toned down to be balanced in teamfights, it would be underwhelming in 1v1s compared to what we have currently.

As for your Defy Pain suggestion, I think it’s a good idea in theory, but we already have so many effects tied burst skills that it seems somewhat excessive to keep piling more of them on. At a certain point we’d just have warriors spamming longbow F1 for numerous guaranteed buffs as opposed to trying to set up the less reliable bursts.

the game has lost it’s flavor, the devs can’t make a proper fighting/action game anymore after HoT

Warrior is suppose to encompass the Simple Fighter motif. Wolverine is a rather simplistic fighter considering his main features are undefendable melee (adamantium claws + trained combat), physically hardy (adamantium skeleton) and a survivor (regen factor). IMO, that is what a warrior is.

The thing Warrior needs to be is MORE types of simple fighter. Think The Thing, Colossus, The Hulk, Iron Fist or even The Punisher. These are all guys who pretty much say “I’m gonna hurt you real bad and there’s nothing you can do about it”, they just do it in slightly different ways.

Now where we’d start diverging from the normal warrior motif is when incorporating other MMO roles like healer and utility. Tanking comes with the territory of being a high profile “I’m gonna hurt you” archetype.

…PS, I sure miss CoH…Warrior should be honored to join the ranks of Regen Scrapper.

Warrior’s seen really bad days, I’m just glad the recent patch did us good.. considering how long Warrior’s were in the gutter since the release of HoT..

The points made are actually good.. but I don’t know, maybe they truly want Warriors to be weak to simple (and I do mean SIMPLE) disengage. I mean.. all any decent enemy gotta do is back off when we pop our stances and/or poke/outsustain us to death.. been like that since the beginning and hasn’t changed..

We also took big hits to our mobility in the past (reduced range and increased cd on GS and Sword skills) and we have little to no chase potential besides those 2 weapons even today and we are stuck running at least one of those 2 sets or we’ll be walking pincushions.

Given their design direction, for a class they expect to “just sit there and take it” Warriros are severely lacking in lasting heals and defenses compared to every other class, Warriors are probably the worse at this.

I agree that damage reduction is one of the routes to go.. and more blocks/reflects.. for defenses. Or just make our critical hits in melee unblockable.. rewarding us for sticking close to our enemies.. >:D Magic shields blocking BIG kitten weapon strikes.. SIMPLY UNHEARD OF.. *whistling nonchalantly.. >__o__>

I’d prefer they focus on Warrior’s other weapons, traitlines and skills.. make those options more viable.. diversify our build options. Other classes can use this love as well.

eXruina.4956:

Warrior’s seen really bad days, I’m just glad the recent patch did us good.. considering how long Warrior’s were in the gutter since the release of HoT..

The points made are actually good.. but I don’t know, maybe they truly want Warriors to be weak to simple (and I do mean SIMPLE) disengage. I mean.. all any decent enemy gotta do is back off when we pop our stances and/or poke/outsustain us to death.. been like that since the beginning and hasn’t changed..

We also took big hits to our mobility in the past (reduced range and increased cd on GS and Sword skills) and we have little to no chase potential besides those 2 weapons even today and we are stuck running at least one of those 2 sets or we’ll be walking pincushions.

Given their design direction, for a class they expect to “just sit there and take it” Warriros are severely lacking in lasting heals and defenses compared to every other class, Warriors are probably the worse at this.

I agree that damage reduction is one of the routes to go.. and more blocks/reflects.. for defenses. Or just make our critical hits in melee unblockable.. rewarding us for sticking close to our enemies.. >:D Magic shields blocking BIG kitten weapon strikes.. SIMPLY UNHEARD OF.. *whistling nonchalantly.. >o>

I’d prefer they focus on Warrior’s other weapons, traitlines and skills.. make those options more viable.. diversify our build options. Other classes can use this love as well.

That’s close to impossible in this meta, unless you are going up against a thief.

Since these changes would come at the cost of the healing, wouldnt that just make these traits mandatory since there’s no general option?

What bothers me more is that warr which was once a power based class and ALL I see today is condi warrs, condi warrs EVERYWHERE holy crap, I PvP’ed yesterday for a couple of hours on my gs/hammer warr and yolo berserker core ranger and unranked was flooded with condi warrs like 2-3 per game. I literally saw only one other power warrior. RIP power warrs

This seems to be a subjective post to me. When I think warrior I think GW1 warrior. Stances, pretty and massive weapons, burst, enough sustain to kill something. GW2 has gotten closer since vanilla warrior before HoT. In my opinion warrior has for the most part been within the warrior theme spectrum.

An underlying question I’ve seen come up for all classes since any skill/patch/profession update is defining those lines of where one class ends and another begins. Impossible to do imo. If I was artistic/creative enough I’d show you a really neat spectrum graph that shows where every class sits in relation to others.

Not a fan of the changes you suggested, but my opinion.

jadaniel.4910:

This seems to be a subjective post to me. When I think warrior I think GW1 warrior. Stances, pretty and massive weapons, burst, enough sustain to kill something. GW2 has gotten closer since vanilla warrior before HoT. In my opinion warrior has for the most part been within the warrior theme spectrum.

An underlying question I’ve seen come up for all classes since any skill/patch/profession update is defining those lines of where one class ends and another begins. Impossible to do imo. If I was artistic/creative enough I’d show you a really neat spectrum graph that shows where every class sits in relation to others.

Not a fan of the changes you suggested, but my opinion.

Anything involving class flavor is going to be subjective. Also, you mention GW1 Warrior, which in general was about reducing incoming damage for their sustain, rather than just flat out healing.

Warriors are masters of weaponry who rely on speed, strength, toughness, and heavy armor to survive in battle. Adrenaline fuels their offensive power—the longer warriors stay in a fight, the more dangerous they become.

Considering this, the warrior is exactly what it’s supposed to be, as far as flavor goes. allow me to explain.

Master of weapons
Right now, the warrior is one of the few classes that can honestly say that they can use any weapon in their kit. Mace has hybrid condi/power builds, Hammer has power and hybrid power/condi builds/ sword has condi builds and hybrid condi builds, axe has power builds, greatsword has power builds. Almost any weapon combination you can think of has a viable build attached to it.

Adrenaline fuels their offensive power
This is very accurate. Between burst skills, berserk, and primal bursts we rely on adrenaline to perform at our peak.

The longer warriors stay in the fight, the more dangerous they become.
Considering that the best way to defeat a warrior includes denying them adrenaline, i’d say this is true. I know that the longer i am fighting the more dangerous I become. At the start of a fight I’m vulnerable to burst damage (down to 50% hp then my defy pain kicks in) but once I get off a decent burst I’m extremely dangerous for the next 15 seconds.

Warrior is exactly where it needs to be, and other professions should be leveled out to match them. Warriors right now are tough, but they are not unbeatable. They are strong reliable +1s. In fact i think the greatest strength of a warrior right now is that you never know what a warrior is going to be until they get up in your grill and start going to town.. will you face a Hybrid? Power?, Condi? Is the warrior running CC? So the warrior has a mace and shield, but that does not mean he’s running Hybrid? He may just be a Power CC build with massive burst and lock down potential,

I like having a hefty health regen… it was one of my biggest draws to switching my main to a Warrior a few months back. I’ll choose HoT over burst-heals any day; I love that the Warrior has this option.

I do like your suggestion for Defy Pain.

~EW

I’m not really a fan of these ideas. The meta is “fuller healthbar = better”. It takes too much away to be fighting a game where you are dishing out damage reductions instead of heals. Its just a case of the warrior having a giant lifespan hourglass over their head when they go into combat…they will only last so long and the game knows it. The current situations though gives way for some fierce fighting against more than 1 player at a time…especially against 2 or 3 or 4+ enemies at the same time, you can actually do damage and heal urself in fluid motions. Even if its not viable against mlg players….the fact you CAN pull it off rally makes the difference. Presently I toss my burst on the weaker player when its too hard to hit the mlg ones…allows me options is the thing that I like about it. I feel fierce with adrenal health the way it is. The better I play the longer I last in those situations. THe more damage I do, the more I hit my enemies = the longer I last. It feels like a warrior to me!

I have mixed feelings about the balance issues we have been facing for years now. It didn’t simply start with HoT.
Everyone has their own idea about the class “Warrior”.
My favorite type of warrior has always been the tanky brawler who is still dangerous in any form of close range combat. The game moved away from having any room for this type of warrior, though. The days where Hambow and later Axebow ruled seem long gone.

The general design idea seems to be passive regeneration as well as complete immunity from either physical or condition damage. Yet, they seem to slowly implement even more ways to counter a warrior’s strengths.
One thing that wouldn’t surprise me is if Endure Pain got hit the same way Berserker Stance did. The change from a unique effect into an actual boon. They might implement a invulnerability boon and therefor leave it vulnerable to boon rip. Seems to be the direction we are heading, in any case.

The things I’d much rather see:
The name Endure Pain already suggests something along the lines of reduced damage due to a warrior’s natural experience with pain and injuries. Would much rather see damage reducing effects, passive or even better active ones, as a warrior’s main source of defense.
Was hoping that the new Berserker spec actually focused on something similar. All of us imagine some Viking Berserker, someone who fights until they fall over from all of the injuries and the blood lost.
The last person you ever want to find yourself next to when they go on a rampage. And that is my main issue with the current (and more like the warrior we have had for ages now). Does anyone actually care about a melee warrior? They attack you back while taking far less damage or equal damage and healing up to full health afterwards while you are stuck with your (impressive) regeneration. Doesn’t matter how strong your regeneration is compared to other powerful active healing skills… you will still have to kite and play around your passive regeneration to drag out any fight until you can use it to it’s full effect.

We have been seing traits, abilities, boon, conditions, skills, weapons and other stuff which would fit a warrior more than any of the other classes. Taunt seemed to be the perfect and stereotypical warrior condition, reduced damage taking in melee range traits, natural defenses and healing traits, etc.
Yet, Warrior seems to be cursed forever to be the simple and easy newbie class. Never going to get anything too flashy or too complicated and therefor not getting any love from the designers because they can not work on anything new or exciting.

Considering whichever part of the warrior experience you’d call it’s main flavour – I’d say we lost that a long time ago.

emkelly.2371:

Warriors are masters of weaponry who rely on speed, strength, toughness, and heavy armor to survive in battle. Adrenaline fuels their offensive power—the longer warriors stay in a fight, the more dangerous they become.

Considering this, the warrior is exactly what it’s supposed to be, as far as flavor goes. allow me to explain.

Master of weapons
Right now, the warrior is one of the few classes that can honestly say that they can use any weapon in their kit. Mace has hybrid condi/power builds, Hammer has power and hybrid power/condi builds/ sword has condi builds and hybrid condi builds, axe has power builds, greatsword has power builds. Almost any weapon combination you can think of has a viable build attached to it.

Adrenaline fuels their offensive power
This is very accurate. Between burst skills, berserk, and primal bursts we rely on adrenaline to perform at our peak.

The longer warriors stay in the fight, the more dangerous they become.
Considering that the best way to defeat a warrior includes denying them adrenaline, i’d say this is true. I know that the longer i am fighting the more dangerous I become. At the start of a fight I’m vulnerable to burst damage (down to 50% hp then my defy pain kicks in) but once I get off a decent burst I’m extremely dangerous for the next 15 seconds.

Warrior is exactly where it needs to be, and other professions should be leveled out to match them. Warriors right now are tough, but they are not unbeatable. They are strong reliable +1s. In fact i think the greatest strength of a warrior right now is that you never know what a warrior is going to be until they get up in your grill and start going to town.. will you face a Hybrid? Power?, Condi? Is the warrior running CC? So the warrior has a mace and shield, but that does not mean he’s running Hybrid? He may just be a Power CC build with massive burst and lock down potential,

Warrior has many weapons, and all of them flawed and confused.
Hammer is weak and dilute. It is so under powered you don’t even see it being used in PvE which features the most amount of trash targets. Its burst has an annoying after cast and it it is too telegraphed to be useful against anyone with sound hotkey set up. Even if you do manage to string some hits together consistently, the damage is forgettable. Each weapon either has underwhelming abilities (warhorn) has jerky and ugly aftercasts (flurry) or is telegraphed overtly (one hundred blades) or has terrible pathing issues from launch (savage leap/rush) or undeniably long cool downs (off had mace/axe) or painfully long projectile speeds (longbow in general)

Mace is seeing a lot of game time at the moment only because it is the lesser of all the evils. The added block, and traited reflect make it useful and with taunt it can be used some what well in HoTM. However in wvw dueling area’s a simple power druid will kite for days and shame you for even trying. With full berserker ascended gear you’ll be lucky to see it crack above 6k on its burst. In hybrid builds its condition duration length is not long enough to promote any sort of persistent threat unless your running perplex runes.

Warrior contrary to people beliefs does not become stronger the longer a fight goes. The longer a fight goes, the more likely their must have stances are used and the weaker they become. If they fail to burst anything down and keep it on the back foot, the warrior will most likely lose after its defensive stances have been used.

The simple reality for warrior currently is even in HoTM with a marauders or destroyer amulet they can’t consistently out damage a healbot ele…they can’t snare a kiting druid consistently…they take forever and day to down a scrapper..even the most vanilla MM reaper can scale toughness to the point that burst skills on crit do under whelming damage.

The issue of lack of creativity only became grossly highlighted with HoT. Berserker didn’t change how warrior played. It just made burning condition spec’s an option. However all the same issues warrior had from day one are still present. Whether it be badly placed traits in odd tree’s or jerky animations..nothing really got better for warrior, it just became slightly more bearable.

Warrior is a nice profession to play when you wanna crush inexperienced players, but beyond that other professions shouldn’t be bought down to warrior. Warrior is a quagmire of odd placed traits, under whelming skills, baked in must have ultities and weapon sets that desperately needed quality of life improvements 2 years ago. No matter the changes they make, warrior doesn’t change. The prime example of this is all heals were improved, yet healing sig is still the go to. Utilities were brushed up, yet banners are still what we take in PvE. Shouts are regrettable. Signets still take a back seat to stances.

Sure..you will see a petty few warriors dominant from time to time, but they are the exception and not the norm. Even in these situations it mostly the other person lost and not the warrior actually won. There is a very good reason no one has used a warrior in any ESL or pro league for quite some time now..they just flat out under perform.

So yeah, warrior hasn’t just lost its flavour..it’s bland and insipid. It lacks a dynamic feel and presence. Nothing represents this better than the statement, “elite skills are skills that when used efficiently can change the course of a battle.” Now think of stealth gyro, moa, entangle and all the other elites..now think of rage signet. Rage signet isn’t changing the flow of any battle.It is just another under performing skill warrior has that makes them disposable.

Honestly, you are likelly speaking of the disproportionate power level between Warrior and specs like Elementalist, engineer, mesmer, and Necromancer. that speaks towards the over powered nature of those professions rather than the weaknesses of warrior. yeah, the warrior has flaws, but every proffesion should have flaws. The problem is that so many of the specs don’t have any. they have an answer for every situation, which is just bad development. hence why i said all other specs need to be leveled out to match warrior. a profession without any weaknesses is over powered but that does not mean the warrior is UNDER powered right now. it just means the game has not leveled out again just yet.