Guild Wars 2

It seems to me that wandering into melee range as a warrior is a death sentence if the boss decides to target you.
Dodge should only be needed for big, telegraphed attacks that players have no excuse not to be avoiding. For how much Anet blathered on about there being no “holy trinity” it seems like they lied. You need to rely on other classes to protect you just as much as in traditional MMOs. The only difference seems to be that it’s not very effective.

Being able to heal 1/3 of my HP at best every 30 seconds is a bit of a joke when a normal boss hit does almost that much.

Am I not understanding something, or is this game just really poorly designed? It seems like they changed what wasn’t broken just to be different.

i do it, but of course i have increased endurance regen and my burst skill also fills my bar back. also whirlwind attack is a free dodge(smaller “evasion” window than a regular dodge though).

It’s possible if you’re going to chain an Endure Pain, a heal skill, maybe some defensive banner build, and condition removal. Of course teammates helping buff you is better too. Your stats should be to bulk up your health and healing and not damage.

But at any rate melee still drew the short straw in dungeons. We have to play harder for the same rewards.

I found myself going ranged when I first did AC, but now I do dungeons and I spend most of my time in melee. I use the greatsword (I tried other weapons but I don’t like them) and I’ve used a glass cannon build and a tank build, and with the skills I have (whirlwind mostly) and my endurance bar, I can get in-out of fights pretty easily once my health goes below 50%. A cc-breaker helps when you get immobilized/crippled by that odd boss/mob. This last thing, noticeably cripple, is how I usually get killed.

You just can’t stay there and take hits, you have to get out when you are taking the heat, use bladetrail if he’s after you and heal+rush+whirlind, or switch to your ranged weapon if you’re too low.

i run full melee defense/tactics with hammer/mace and sheild. Had no problem being in melee range for AC and CM. gear is toughness, vitality, power and utilities are defense and elite banners and whatever others useful eg stomp, stam sig, endure pain etc.

Not as much damage but am usually the last one alive and ressing the glass cannon or keeping the boss occupied while they waypoint run .

its called dodging lol

ArenaNet effectively removed the holy trinity. In GW2 you will do damage, control your foes and support your allies. You depend on your allies, and they depend on you. Everyone must do his part to ensure victory.

If you are getting damaged in melee, roll away from danger and heal up, or switch to ranged if you don’t have your heal ready. Or ask for someone in your party to help you heal or regen.

Also, make sure your group is using blind, aegis, crowd control skills (stun, daze, fear, immobilize) and condition removal (shake it off is huge) properly.

mmm I dont find this at all, although i use a mace shield/sword shield setup with defensive and condition removal utilities.

melee did draw the short straw when it comes to staying alive in instances, need to focus a lot more on defense than our ranged counterparts, but I don’t mind since I’m pretty much a tanky/support build

I use twin axes and a longbow and although Ive only done story modes Ive found that melee is very doable though it requires alot of movement and good timing. You also have to be prepared to back out if things get bad and switch to range for a bit.

Things Ive found really helpful are the skills: shake it off, and the Healing Signet. Healing Signet is incredable. It regenerates my health very quickly. I even went AFK once in the open world and came back to find a minotaur beating on my character. The Healing Signet was healing me faster than the minotaur did damage.

I think a large part of the problem is not that enemies are hitting too hard, but instead that it is not really all that obvious that they are targeting you in the first place. I really like the evasion mechanic by dodging, or the ability to activate a block or immunity cooldown before an attack lands. But there’s often so much raw spam of abilities, that it becomes really difficulty to even SEE a boss sometimes.

What we need are more telegraphed animations for attacks, and/or graphics options to turn off/down the effects of other players.

Additionally, bosses need to have more attacks that hit ONLY at range. Or bosses that hit less hard, but are more evasive themselves.

There are lots of ways to address the issue. But frankly I’m a little bit disappointed in Anet for making the mistake of other MMOs and making ranged classes EZ mode, and melee difficult.

Needs more balance, for sure.

You can melee but you need to pull out when your low. Some bosses though just do way too much damage to melee; sometimes its better if no ones meleeing, because the AI on the boss might default to a less damaging ranged skill. Also, alot of bosses have pbaoe damage which is pretty hard to avoid as a melee.

Always pack a gun or bow for dungeons in your secondary weapon swap.

i got my warrior to 75 and am pretty much over it, although solo pve hes great when it comes to group events hes too slow to tag and hard to clock enough damage for any reward inc xp at all compared to a ranged class who has zero travel time to target.
cant get near some dungeon bosses and end up using a rifle or bow which i may as well rolled ranger for.
kinda makes me wonder what they were thinking when they assigned a dps check to group rewards in OWPVE

Yeah its possible as some bosses are impossible and others are not once you get the pattern you should know when to dodge or move.

I’m melee about 90% of the time in dungeons, even in Explorer Modes (done quite a few CoF, HotW and Arah explorers) without much trouble.

What’s important is to have several AoE regen fields in your group, and preferably have them aimed so that they hit in melee range so you always have regen up. As long as you don’t stand in fires and such, you should be fine.

Also, don’t run an offensive build if you plan on being melee in dungeons, that’s suicide.
Try defensive trait build with Hammer, and you’ll be fine, and you’ll be helping your team plenty with lots of control abilities.

1. You work as a team
2. You are not supposed to keep yourself alive in melee range indefinitely, but switch from ranged to melee constantly and swap places with other team members on the fly
3. If you run a 5-signet greatsword build with berserker gear, you got no right to complain

i think its been covered mostly.. but its about a change in mindset..

As a tank in other games, if i back out of a fight, the group is likely to wipe. Here, I need to know when to stay in, and when to back off and heal.

Once you get over that, its really good fun mixing it up.

However, all that said, I bet dungeons are more easily cleared with a ‘tank’,‘healer’ and dps classes assigned.

I run full Berserker gear and Melee in all the Instances. You’ve just gotta know when to get out. Signet of Rage>For Great Justice>Frenzy>Hundred Blades>Spam Greatsword Attacks>Switch to Longbow/Rifle>Use Burst Skill>Use Ranged Attack skills>Rinse Repeat.

Occasionally you’ll pull aggro either way but I run with my guild and Aggro is constantly switching between me and the two Guardians I run with.

Tase.3294:

I found myself going ranged when I first did AC, but now I do dungeons and I spend most of my time in melee. I use the greatsword (I tried other weapons but I don’t like them) and I’ve used a glass cannon build and a tank build, and with the skills I have (whirlwind mostly) and my endurance bar, I can get in-out of fights pretty easily once my health goes below 50%. A cc-breaker helps when you get immobilized/crippled by that odd boss/mob. This last thing, noticeably cripple, is how I usually get killed.

You just can’t stay there and take hits, you have to get out when you are taking the heat, use bladetrail if he’s after you and heal+rush+whirlind, or switch to your ranged weapon if you’re too low.

He speaks the truth. You have to learn to move and adapt depending on the situation of the fight. If you fall below 20% health, just back off and wait for heal to come off cooldown. ALSO, remember to use your heal AS SOON as you drop below the required amount to get back to full hp. It really helps a lot if you haven’t been doing it and is much more efficient.

Leaving this here =D.

The best advice I can give any melee is to watch the enemy, not your skills. Once you get the hang of that all the pieces start falling into place.

While I am only level 35 so have not done any dungeons I will say that I am having a hard time visually identifying when mobs are doing something I should dodge, block, etc out of. In some cases such as large events or where there is a large # of people attacking a Champion mob…If I am in melee range there is so much visual crap filling up my screen I cannot even see the mob let alone being able to visually identify ‘special attacks’. I understand the mechanics of the game but am having hard time with the ui/graphics in making the most optimal use of dodge and such.

I can only imagine it is even worse in dungeons where not doing the correct ‘avoid’ at the correct time = insta death/wipe.

I really wish there was a way to turn off other players effects….might make things a little less messy.

I am not really complaining about the mechanics of having to watch what the mod is doing……..I like their approach to combat mechanics…….its just technically I think they could use some better graphics/UI options for melee.

All that said I must say that despite trying to be different GW2 has made life much more difficult for melee -vs- ranged just as pretty much ever other MMO has. Its a night and day difference when I swap between trying to use swords, axes and maces -vs- just standing back using bow or gun…..the latter is a snooze fest for the most part.

I just got my guardian to level 75, sure melee works but that’s taking an unecessary risk when you can just use range and kite. I disagree when people say it’s alright and you just have to dodge and heal.

1. I can only dodge twice
2. Doesn’t matter if I can’t even notice what it was that just one shotted me.

The second point is the most important one for me, cause when I’m in range I can usually lay back and just watch red circles on the ground and I also don’t have to worry about getting aggro by all the enemies.

A lot of mobs also likes to fill an entire area with aoe. Making it very ineffecient to try to get in melee range and then being forced to imedietely have to dodge away.
Needless to say a lot of bosses are also ment to be fought with ranged only.

To melee you really gotta take alot of support stuff.

For example most warriors level with a 5 signet build. I know i sure as hell did. When i do dungeons though, i use 0 signets, cause they are garbage for team play.

I also leveled mostly using hammer. Problem is alot of bosses in dungeons have this boon that blocks CC (it has 5 stacks, and 1 cc removes 1 stack; once you cc him, he regains the boon) so that only 1/5 CC skills actually get through. This made hammer pretty useless. Ended up swapping to sword and board for the survival.

Still have to keep a ranged weapon in 2nd weapon swap. Some bosses are ABSOLUTELY impossible to melee. For example if you do CoF story, you know there’s that one boss that has an immolation aura around it, that is really big. If you stay in it, your constantly under burning effect.

Some fights you will want to pack signet of stamina. Its funny cause this is the weakest signet in solo PvE, but is probably the best/only signet worth using situationally in dungeons. The endurance regen is great for fights where you need to kite alot (like 2nd boss in TA), and gives you another condition removal (always good)

IMO, there are a few skills you will probably always have on your bar for dungeons. 1.) mending. 2.) shake it off 3.) for great justice. These 3 are just way too useful not to have.

While I’ve only done one dungeon (and didn’t finish, due to time constraints), I’ve experienced and witnessed the effects of trying to melee a boss — it’s not pretty. The fact that ranged is far superior on most bosses or is even required is a huge design flaw, especially when ANet stressed to us so many times the importance of letting us play the way we wanted. I am absolutely not against requiring some small amount of defensive stats/traits to survive in melee range, but even this doesn’t seem possible.

Add onto this the fact that I was able to solo a champion NPC — and, yes, I know, they aren’t meant to be soloed, that’s not what they’re there for — to half health and would have killed it on my own with rifle had one or two others not shown up, something I absolutely could not do with any combination of melee, and we have a huge problem and flaw in design on our hands.

I don’t have the answers, but something needs done to address the fact that melee play is far more punishing than ranged and far too often a bad choice.

Cinder.4865:

Add onto this the fact that I was able to solo a champion NPC — and, yes, I know, they aren’t meant to be soloed, that’s not what they’re there for — to half health and would have killed it on my own with rifle had one or two others not shown up, something I absolutely could not do with any combination of melee, and we have a huge problem and flaw in design on our hands.

When I soloed two champion underwater mobs and a giant crab in Malchor’s Leap by exclusively using my harpoon gun, I was pretty much convinced that the ranged/melee problem had not been solved by GW2.

It’s definitely a bigger problem in dungeons than out in the world, but that’s only because the dungeon content is tuned to be more difficult generally. I swapped to rifle during my Arah run and I was suddenly playing a completely different (and ridiculously easier) game. Any time there was a gimmick like eye stalks, or towers with infinitely spawning mobs, or huge overlapping AoE, being ranged made it easier.

Sometimes the change in difficulty was staggering: as melee, killing the object or monster felt impossible; with ranged, it felt like an arbitrary 2-minute tax on my playing time because there was literally no way I could fail as long as I just stood there and took potshots. I took no damage. I stood in one place. I shot my rifle. The enemy health bar went down slowly. Yes, Virginia, it really is just that simple sometimes… if you’re ranged.

In order for ranged to be less effective than melee, ANet has to go out of its way to set up a projectile reflection shield or give a mob projectile immunity. That’s powerful evidence of poor design.

This is a perennial problem in any game that even remotely models real life (and yes, just the bare bones of a simulated 3D environment qualifies, even with magic and dragons and stuff.) Ranged is better than melee. It’s a fact of life and a fact of warfare since forever. That’s why it needs to be one of the very first things up on the whiteboard during developer meetings if melee is intended to be a competitive playstyle. Reality needs to be massaged in creative and interesting ways so that its inherent ranged/melee imbalance isn’t transposed onto the gaming world.

Xenteko.1238:

It seems to me that wandering into melee range as a warrior is a death sentence if the boss decides to target you.
Dodge should only be needed for big, telegraphed attacks that players have no excuse not to be avoiding. For how much Anet blathered on about there being no “holy trinity” it seems like they lied. You need to rely on other classes to protect you just as much as in traditional MMOs. The only difference seems to be that it’s not very effective.

Being able to heal 1/3 of my HP at best every 30 seconds is a bit of a joke when a normal boss hit does almost that much.

Am I not understanding something, or is this game just really poorly designed? It seems like they changed what wasn’t broken just to be different.

Melee is tougher no doubt. But you missed the part where Anet said NOTHING about making a glass cannon build and being able to tank a boss. To think you should be able to do that is silly.

Perosnally when I get in trouble I get out, swap to my gun, and kite if need be untill the boss switches to someone else. Then I will heal up and go back in. Then again there are just some setups in instances that are completely broken imo right now and instance balance is a joke.

xenogias.1768:

Melee is tougher no doubt. But you missed the part where Anet said NOTHING about making a glass cannon build and being able to tank a boss. To think you should be able to do that is silly.

Perosnally when I get in trouble I get out, swap to my gun, and kite if need be untill the boss switches to someone else. Then I will heal up and go back in. Then again there are just some setups in instances that are completely broken imo right now and instance balance is a joke.

Therein lies the issue. The warrior class has two ranged weapons out of 16 total weapon combinations, and they start to feel mandatory. If you have to kite as part of dungeon play, then why would you ever choose to forego the ability to do stuff to a mob while kiting it? It’s too universally effective and it’s too easy. It has no downside unless a gimmick is specifically inserted to give it one.

As I mentioned elsewhere, melee damage would have to be ridiculous in dungeons to justify the risks and downtime. I would need to be critting things for 25k+ damage on a regular basis to make up for all the time spent running around and on the ground. Proportional to mob health, there is no “glass cannon” spec for dungeons, because while they’re glass, they’re not really cannons.

Currently, “Damage” as a competitive role alongside “Support” and “Control” really just means “Ranged Damage,” which – because you can kite mobs while dealing damage – is also inherently a form of control. Perhaps that’s what Melee Damage needs (as an alternative to a huge damage boost) in order to become competitive: inherent control. It would also need to be inherent control that’s at least partially applicable to champion level mobs, since kiting is effective against them.

I go in for melee a bit, swing a few times, and then leave and switch to rifle if I take any damage at all. I don’t wait for the chance to get one-shot so I just spam 3 until I see the guy attacking someone else again.