Guild Wars 2

Hello!

Recently I’m noticing a trend in all the builds that I make, along with the builds from fellow warriors in my guild and on the forums:Fast hands included.

I seem to be unable to make a build that doesn’t include this trait. I find that it is far, far to important. Being able to swap weapons consistently and put out as much utility and control that I can gives me a “unique edge” It gives us extreme utility along with diversity.

We do not generally have “gimmicks” that other classes have. Necros have deathshroud, thieves have stealth, mesmers have clones guardians have heals…ect. We lack a “unique” aspect that allows our class to excel. In general, we are seen as “damage.”

However, looking at class diversity, fast hands is something extremely unique to the warrior as no other class has access to it. To extend that point, I do believe that Warriors function more-so off their weapon sets as opposed to any other class. This is the Warrior -a master of arms-, so it sort of “makes sense” for this ability to be an attractive feature of the class.

Thoughts?

I’ll say I sure wish it was the 5pt minor and not the 15. I HATE not having it in WvW because I’m so used to using it in PVP.

I also agree thakittens should be base or 5pt minor at least.

Honestly? it should be base.

Oh please oh please let this happen A-net.

Actually, it should be the 25pt trait. It’s about as powerful as iCelerity for mesmers.

And you know that when it would be base, other classes would need something equally powerful to compensate?

Iavra.8510:

And you know that when it would be base, other classes would need something equally powerful to compensate?

Ah, yes, the ol’ “Give Warriors a small buff and all other classes a huge buff” design paradigm. :P

Sounds like every patch ever.

Should it be base? maybe. I feel Elemental Attunement for elementalist should be base, hell so many people who don’t play eles THINK that it is base and that you get boons for swapping attunements.

TBH if you make it base you are down a slipper slope with other classes who have must have traits and that they want it to become base.

I personally can’t make pvp builds without fast hands.

Mandatory trait for me. I start every of my WvW build with 0/0/10/0/15 (Dogged March + Fast Hand)
Indeed it could be a nice addition to Warrior class mechanic which consists in (in my opinion) one more weapon skill.

Weird to be Master of Arms when your “weapon handling” is as good as most of the professions.

Agree.
Warriors should have it as a base charateristic and that trait should be changed with Warrior’s Sprint. Warrio’s Sprint should be changed with… dunno, but I love the idea of having a minor trait for running faster

It would certainly open up a lot of warrior builds.

5 CD weapon switch should be default class mechanic.

Should’ve been the class mechanic.

Or maybe as less of a buff, default weapon swap cd is tied to adrenaline at the time you swap?

Warrior are nothing without fast hands. Then yes! It’s time to fast hands become base.

Duh, we get the most weapons to choose from of any class to begin with. This only further expands on the utility.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNBMhJaE0J7NAyGCHSggUohfhVg+wbkeEGsxaA-jUyAoLBRCCA9BkQAl9KiGbZsIas6FMdJRUtHvIa1A-w

My wvw build

I agree that fast hands should be base but maybe not 5 seconds,,, maybe 7 secs. I think by making it base but leaving it at 5 seconds is asking a bit much.

I’m not trying to hate on Warriors here, but I don’t think it would be fair to give the class Fast Hands as a class defining mechanic.

Class Defining Mechanics

Elementalist:
- Attunements (primary)

Necromancer:
- Death Shroud (primary)
- Life Force

Mesmer:
- Shatters (primary)
- Illusions

Thief:
- Stealing (primary)
- Dual Wield
- Stealth Attacks
Edit: – Initiative

Engineer:
- Tool Belt (primary)

Ranger:
- Pets (primary)

Guardian:
- Virtues (primary)

Warrior:
- Burst Skills (primary)
- Adrenaline

*You can argue that Thieves have 2 secondary defining mechanics but neither is as powerful as Fast Hands (and no, Thief is not my main).

I think the Trait should either be…
1. Nerfed and moved to an Adept minor trait. That way you don’t have to waste so many points to get such a “warrior” feeling trait without making it OP, because it’s too strong for a 5 point trait.
-or-
2. Given an additional effect (without changing the 5s CD reduction) and moved to a Grandmaster minor trait. That way it would encourage a more utility/fast paced build.

Scrap Fast Hands, they should give us a whole traitline with minor traits that are dedicated to reviving instead! … oh wait..

Somoe.3621:

I’m not trying to hate on Warriors here, but I don’t think it would be fair to give the class Fast Hands as a class defining mechanic.

Class Defining Mechanics

Elementalist:
- Attunements (primary)

Necromancer:
- Death Shroud (primary)
- Life Force

Mesmer:
- Shatters (primary)
- Illusions

Thief:
- Stealing (primary)
- Dual Wield
- Stealth Attacks

Engineer:
- Tool Belt (primary)

Ranger:
- Pets (primary)

Guardian:
- Virtues (primary)

Warrior:
- Burst Skills (primary)
- Adrenaline

*You can argue that Thieves have 2 secondary defining mechanics but neither is as powerful as Fast Hands (and no, Thief is not my main).

I think the Trait should either be…
1. Nerfed and moved to an Adept minor trait. That way you don’t have to waste so many points to get such a “warrior” feeling trait without making it OP, because it’s too strong for a 5 point trait.
-or-
2. Given an additional effect (without changing the 5s CD reduction) and moved to a Grandmaster minor trait. That way it would encourage a more utility/fast paced build.

How exactly are you calling our special class mechanic Adrenaline AND Burst skills like they are separate when Adrenaline = Burst skills. Looks like one mechanic to me.

You did the same exact thing to Necros.

Life force and Deathshroud are somehow two separate mechanics? No they aren’t, Life force = Deathshroud. There is no DS without Life force.

If anything the Necros secondary mechanic should be listed as Fear since they are the only profession able to perform multiple fears and spec into it.

Yes, it is time!

Velron.3729:

Somoe.3621:

I’m not trying to hate on Warriors here, but I don’t think it would be fair to give the class Fast Hands as a class defining mechanic.

Class Defining Mechanics

Elementalist:
- Attunements (primary)

Necromancer:
- Death Shroud (primary)
- Life Force

Mesmer:
- Shatters (primary)
- Illusions

Thief:
- Stealing (primary)
- Dual Wield
- Stealth Attacks

Engineer:
- Tool Belt (primary)

Ranger:
- Pets (primary)

Guardian:
- Virtues (primary)

Warrior:
- Burst Skills (primary)
- Adrenaline

*You can argue that Thieves have 2 secondary defining mechanics but neither is as powerful as Fast Hands (and no, Thief is not my main).

I think the Trait should either be…
1. Nerfed and moved to an Adept minor trait. That way you don’t have to waste so many points to get such a “warrior” feeling trait without making it OP, because it’s too strong for a 5 point trait.
-or-
2. Given an additional effect (without changing the 5s CD reduction) and moved to a Grandmaster minor trait. That way it would encourage a more utility/fast paced build.

How exactly are you calling our special class mechanic Adrenaline AND Burst skills like they are separate when Adrenaline = Burst skills. Looks like one mechanic to me.

You did the same exact thing to Necros.

Life force and Deathshroud are somehow two separate mechanics? No they aren’t, Life force = Deathshroud. There is no DS without Life force.

If anything the Necros secondary mechanic should be listed as Fear since they are the only profession able to perform multiple fears and spec into it.

Nah, I agree with Somoe’s breakdown. Adrenaline and Burst are different because Adrenaline can be traited to act as a class enhancing resource. Outside of burst use, Anet’s decision to make Adrenaline completely useless without traiting makes the comparison a little more gray, but it’s still capable of performing that role. The same remains true with Life Force and Death Shroud except they get a little more use without traiting. At the very least, Life Force acts as a separate health bar, and Death Shroud provides another 5 skills at the cost of bleeding Life Force. It’s like a sustained version of Adrenaline/Burst. Although a relationship exists between each mechanic (Adrenaline/Burst, Life Force/Death Shroud), they are two very separate mechanics.

However, I will take issue with Initiative being left out of the laundry list of thief mechanics. That is, arguably, the strongest mechanic in the game.

But yes, I’d like to see 1 of 3 things happen, Fast Hands become standard, Fast Hands be Discipline minor, or Adrenaline provide some benefit outside of being used as a resource for burst. It is far and away the least flexible and among one of the least useful mechanics in the game without putting 30 points in Strength, at least 15 points in Defense, or 30 points in Discipline. Warriors need something more than the ability to perform 1 attack, best case scenario, every ~7 seconds.

Veritas.6071:

Velron.3729:

Somoe.3621:

I’m not trying to hate on Warriors here, but I don’t think it would be fair to give the class Fast Hands as a class defining mechanic.

Class Defining Mechanics

Elementalist:
- Attunements (primary)

Necromancer:
- Death Shroud (primary)
- Life Force

Mesmer:
- Shatters (primary)
- Illusions

Thief:
- Stealing (primary)
- Dual Wield
- Stealth Attacks

Engineer:
- Tool Belt (primary)

Ranger:
- Pets (primary)

Guardian:
- Virtues (primary)

Warrior:
- Burst Skills (primary)
- Adrenaline

*You can argue that Thieves have 2 secondary defining mechanics but neither is as powerful as Fast Hands (and no, Thief is not my main).

I think the Trait should either be…
1. Nerfed and moved to an Adept minor trait. That way you don’t have to waste so many points to get such a “warrior” feeling trait without making it OP, because it’s too strong for a 5 point trait.
-or-
2. Given an additional effect (without changing the 5s CD reduction) and moved to a Grandmaster minor trait. That way it would encourage a more utility/fast paced build.

How exactly are you calling our special class mechanic Adrenaline AND Burst skills like they are separate when Adrenaline = Burst skills. Looks like one mechanic to me.

You did the same exact thing to Necros.

Life force and Deathshroud are somehow two separate mechanics? No they aren’t, Life force = Deathshroud. There is no DS without Life force.

If anything the Necros secondary mechanic should be listed as Fear since they are the only profession able to perform multiple fears and spec into it.

However, I will take issue with Initiative being left out of the laundry list of thief mechanics. That is, arguably, the strongest mechanic in the game.

But yes, I’d like to see 1 of 3 things happen, Fast Hands become standard, Fast Hands be Discipline minor, or Adrenaline provide some benefit outside of being used as a resource for burst. It is far and away the least flexible and among one of the least useful mechanics in the game without putting 30 points in Strength, at least 15 points in Defense, or 30 points in Discipline. Warriors need something more than the ability to perform 1 attack, best case scenario, every ~7 seconds.

My bad, I completely forgot to mention Initiative.

I agree that Warriors should get more than just one attack every few seconds for the bulk of their class defining mechanics. In my opinion, Fast Hands would be too strong if it was baseline but moving it around and/or making Adrenaline more useful would make Warriors feel much better.

^Explain us why it would be too strong? For the lack of teleports, invul, blocks and such i think we derserve it

If you want teleports and invul roll another class. Seriously, you can’t expect to get everything in one class. Besides, you already got a decent amount of blocks, quite long duration of power/condi-immunity and one of the best mobility in the game on top of it when you need to run. All this while also having the highest damage, armor rating and hp pool.

Evagal.2584:

Hello!

Recently I’m noticing a trend in all the builds that I make, along with the builds from fellow warriors in my guild and on the forums:Fast hands included.

I seem to be unable to make a build that doesn’t include this trait. I find that it is far, far to important. Being able to swap weapons consistently and put out as much utility and control that I can gives me a “unique edge” It gives us extreme utility along with diversity.

We do not generally have “gimmicks” that other classes have. Necros have deathshroud, thieves have stealth, mesmers have clones guardians have heals…ect. We lack a “unique” aspect that allows our class to excel. In general, we are seen as “damage.”

However, looking at class diversity, fast hands is something extremely unique to the warrior as no other class has access to it. To extend that point, I do believe that Warriors function more-so off their weapon sets as opposed to any other class. This is the Warrior -a master of arms-, so it sort of “makes sense” for this ability to be an attractive feature of the class.

Thoughts?

Here is my logic: Warrior has access to more weapons than any other profession. IF they add all weapons to all classes, warriors distinction really drops off.

Your suggestion, IF they make all classes able to use all weapons like they have indicated they intend too, makes sense. This would give us at least the fast swapping action that helps to define the warrior playstyle.

Honestly, I also use it in all of my builds, so a 5 point minor would allow me to branch out into other trees instead of investing 15 or 20 in Discipline for every build.

Iavra.8510:

If you want teleports and invul roll another class. Seriously, you can’t expect to get everything in one class. Besides, you already got a decent amount of blocks, quite long duration of power/condi-immunity and one of the best mobility in the game on top of it when you need to run. All this while also having the highest damage, armor rating and hp pool.

90% of our condition removal is not viable, no we do not have the highest mobility. There is a reason warriors are the easiest kited classes. Damage is kind of our only saving grace…. to bad damage isnt in meta. Once again for armor, burst isnt in meta so why does an extra 100 armor matter? HP pool? necros have the same HP pool but the HP pool does open up a lot of viable builds. I couldnt name a single one if we had the HP pool of a thief or a guard. So pretty much Warriors get DPS and HP. Big kittening boy we have the makings of a PVE class.
Keep fast hands where it is I dont want it nerfed or “buffed” anet

I would be extremely happy.