Guild Wars 2

Hi guys. I am a returning player. Stopped playing sometime before HoT, because of college, and now I finally have time to play again. Since I don’t have the expansion, I was wondering if vanilla warrior is still viable in PvP. I know that hammer/gs is still somewhat viable, but I was wondering about other builds.

I mostly play vanilla power warrior in PvP, it’s alright. I’m not sure the hammer is playable though, most classes have received better access to stability, and it’s often overused in PvP. I play either GS/Bow or GS/Axe+Shield, both demolisher/strength, str/def/dis.

In general, if you truly want to be competitive in PvP, you’ll have to buy the expansion. The berserker specialization brings good stuff like Eternal Champion, Fatal Frenzy, Skull Grinder and Headbutt on the table. Other classes have received even better things.

No

Of course against the average to below average player better players can play anything. Someone posted phanta killing people on a old school fresh air ele but that is unranked.

Against good players vanilla builds will lose 100% of the time.

kdaddy.5431:

No

Of course against the average to below average player better players can play anything. Someone posted phanta killing people on a old school fresh air ele but that is unranked.

Against good players vanilla builds will lose 100% of the time.

I disagree. and i have already written a guide describing why.

(Edit: For clarification. there is a difference between “viable” and “the most powerful thing you can play” Saying berserker is the only viable option is like saying that 6+6 is the only way to get to 12. it is not. )

In WvW I’ve been using Sw/Sh + GS core warrior and I’ve been doing pretty well with it, even outnumbered. Played around with it in unranked sPvP too and faired pretty nicely, though ofc it’s not as good for some things as your standard Axe/Shield GS Berserker. I do like Berserker but I’ve always loved Sword main-hand and that doesn’t seem to work as well with Berserker for power builds so I stick to core.

Even if it’s not AS powerful as a Berserker build, core warrior is very much still playable IMO.

emkelly.2371:

kdaddy.5431:

No

Of course against the average to below average player better players can play anything. Someone posted phanta killing people on a old school fresh air ele but that is unranked.

Against good players vanilla builds will lose 100% of the time.

I disagree. and i have already written a guide describing why.

(Edit: For clarification. there is a difference between “viable” and “the most powerful thing you can play” Saying berserker is the only viable option is like saying that 6+6 is the only way to get to 12. it is not. )

Ok fine lets play this game, 2 days ago i was in unranked. Kaypud and duck were in this game. Duck a thief from spookie and kaypud necro from PZ.

We lost but playing a vanilla warrior here is not going to work at all.

Just yesterday i had another match where on my team 2 former legendary players rocking titles and the other team with 3 players doing the same thing. Once again a vanilla warrior will not cut it with 3 of the opposing players playing DH.

When i first started this season in my first 10 games i saw paul, trackstar, tarcis and dozen more ESL players when i was in sapphire.

Ill say again, its not viable. I run full trap ranger for fun and i win alot of matches with it. Does it make it viable vs players near or above my MMR, NO.

I see alot of people running weird crap, is it viable? For a good player vs average players, yes but a average player vs another average player, NO. So with in the context of what the OP is saying and what you are saying the answer is still no.

@kdaddy, using examples VS ESL, pro level players to say something isn’t viable when the person in question more than likely isn’t going to be going up against players of that skill level or even close to it (in fact you’re talking about a pretty small minority here) is pretty unrealistic. Sure, core spec probably wouldn’t be too great against THOSE players, but I’m pretty sure OP isn’t asking anything of the sort. Core spec IS viable if played well in your average PvP match where you’re not playing against people at VASTLY higher skill levels than yours, in which case you’ll probably lose regardless.

So, no, the answer is not no in the context of what the OP or emkelly are saying, because the context both of them gave mentioned absolutely nothing about high MMR matches against pro level players.

Thank you Dark. ESL, Pro league players, only play what is the most powerful thing out there that they can find. They do not see the game in terms of having fun, they see the game in terms of winning. which defeats the entire purpose of a game. a sport is not a game.

An E-port is not a game. It is a competition which uses a game as it’s basis. A viable build has no place in a competition unless it is the most powerful build out there.

For your average player, Vanilla is viable, hell for a good players Vanilla is viable. And again, there is a difference between “viable” and “the most powerful thing out there” if you are thinking they are one and the same, then nothing we say will ever change your mind.

Your both incorrect, i recently saw chaith playing alot of pistol/shield in ranked and unranked. He actually got my guild member to try and play pistol-pistol and pistol/shield engy.

Phanta when you see is running all sorts of crap, these are 2 players from ESL who are not always running META builds. Heck in season 1-2-3 i saw tarcis in unranked playing rifle warrior.

All that is besides the point, if this individual runs a vanilla build vs someone of equal skill who is running a HOT spec build. More then likely they will lose, they will be weaker in most areas of the game.

Team fights/ 1 vs 1/ speed and fighting off points will be less viable. In the OP topic he said “I know that hammer/gs is still somewhat viable” so at his level the old meta build is somewhat viable.

In there own words so the other 2 builds are 1 vs 1 mace/shield – Greatsword and shoutbow. Thats it, literally these 2 other builds are the only other options he can play that will be “somewhat viable” as a vanilla warrior.

Seriously, if he runs into lets just say a MM necro with 1 shout and 4 minions with reaper form, is he gonna win? How about the Dh build/druid/rev basic builds, these meta builds are meant to take high DPS and sustain them while putting out damage. How will he beat them?

What i consider viable is can they compete? This person doesnt have to win the fight but can the extend it? Can they create pressure in a 2 vs 1? Can they rotate off point quickly and hold off a 1 vs 1 with some skills on CD?

Webster definition of viable- capable of succeeding

So against players of this person skill level, equal abilities. What will his vanilla build do against the HOT specs which are greatly OP compared to core?

This person would have to be better then the players he is playing against to succeed with a core build.

(that is not viable, that is simply being better then the other players. I ran full trap ranger today and won 4 1 vs 1. Im running a strength-discipline-beserker warrior with GS and rifle and i won 3 1 vs 1 in my 1 match. I did those things because they were not ready for what i could bring. He is a core player try to bring the same amount of burst without getting hit as often. Please if you want to debate this further, explain your position on the word “viable”.)

Thats alot of words to say, “Elites are the only way to play”. and you know what/ your not wrong that Elites are over powered, although i would not say so much overpowered as horribly designed to begin with. that horrible design makes them overpowered, yes, but no one is disputing that. What we are saying is that you can play Warrior as vanilla, and succeed. Sure, you will not have as easy a time of it as with a berserker, but that is not what the OP asked. save your “elites are OP” talks for another thread, trust me i’ll be on your side then. but as far a vanilla warrior being viable, Warrior is about the only case in the game right now where the vanilla build is still a viable option. Its not as strong, but it can still get the job done. just remember it plays differently than berserker.

I can say from an s/d main thief I am more worried about vanilla power warriors (in wvw) because a berserker warrior will pop the mode and I can just bugger of and kiye, vanilla warrior plays differently and can catch you out.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

I can say from an s/d main thief I am more worried about vanilla power warriors (in wvw) because a berserker warrior will pop the mode and I can just bugger of and kiye, vanilla warrior plays differently and can catch you out.

lol what? You know the F2 button works again in like 8 seconds right?

emkelly.2371:

Thats alot of words to say, “Elites are the only way to play”. and you know what/ your not wrong that Elites are over powered, although i would not say so much overpowered as horribly designed to begin with. that horrible design makes them overpowered, yes, but no one is disputing that. What we are saying is that you can play Warrior as vanilla, and succeed. Sure, you will not have as easy a time of it as with a berserker, but that is not what the OP asked. save your “elites are OP” talks for another thread, trust me i’ll be on your side then. but as far a vanilla warrior being viable, Warrior is about the only case in the game right now where the vanilla build is still a viable option. Its not as strong, but it can still get the job done. just remember it plays differently than berserker.

Im sorry i completely disagree with you using the words “viable options”.

If you want to say fun, heck yes. Core warrior is 5X more fun then beserker warrior. In my guild hall with just 1-2 different people we will buy and put on green gear and do duels. I still play sword/sword longbow and mace/shield- axe/axe builds. Even the old kill shot build is fun.

But please just as a example if i may take a pole and be honest. Who here can run a vanilla/core GW2 build in ranked to try and move up tiers/divisions and say i will be successful with this build against people i normally play?

The OP of this thread was asking for good builds. I assume to play ranked, if he wanted to play unranked i would assume fun builds. I wont let other people lie or mince words to say warrior is a great vanilla class.

So once again i disagree with it being “viable” but extremely fun it could be.

Yes.

Strength, Discipline, Defense with Berserker’s power traited in strength is pretty decent.

Slytren.9236:

Hi guys. I am a returning player. Stopped playing sometime before HoT, because of college, and now I finally have time to play again. Since I don’t have the expansion, I was wondering if vanilla warrior is still viable in PvP. I know that hammer/gs is still somewhat viable, but I was wondering about other builds.

Yes, it is viable and it has many viable builds. Some professions are more viable then others. Vanilla condi Necro and condi Engineer are equal to their elite builds. Warrior is not far behind, especially condi Warrior (sw/sh(sw) + lb). I have been playing with GS+ Rifle in unranked and having a lot of fun, i can kill even op DHs with Rifle. GS + mace or axe/sh works pretty well too.

Playable yes. But if you uses zerker you might feel the diffrence….
Arc diver is just great on less then 4s CD + the zerker mode boons.
I liked to play mace as CC weapon puting +30 stunduration on mace/shield… But now you are better when using burst in zerker, because lower CD and no real adrenaline loss. You can “Chain” bursts acting as full adrenaline and this affects your self healing too ….

Everyone lost me when the word “skill” started getting tossed around. Nothing in this game involves skill, don’t even think the Pro League players are that “skilled”. They’ve just played together longer as a team than 99.99% of the people playing this game, most people don’t even have a team to play with. The PvP is so braindead that I fall asleep while playing it more often than not. Logging in for the daily reward is just as fun as playing PvP/WvW.

Tu Sevun.7946:

Everyone lost me when the word “skill” started getting tossed around. Nothing in this game involves skill, don’t even think the Pro League players are that “skilled”. They’ve just played together longer as a team than 99.99% of the people playing this game, most people don’t even have a team to play with. The PvP is so braindead that I fall asleep while playing it more often than not. Logging in for the daily reward is just as fun as playing PvP/WvW.

Right here is the reason you cant listen to random people with opinions because they all have them.

We are literally in the warrior forum where there is a video of tarcis winning a 1 vs 2 and having personally been in matches this season with people like Paul and kitten who literally run far. Win the 1 vs 1 and then sustain while holding a point in 1 vs 2 and 1 vs 3 situations.

I give you if you play people like the dude who wrote this comment, sure run what ever you want. Heck even go physical skills with condi damage and you might win. that doesnt change anything and to cap it all, everyone saying yeah its viable is talking about UNRANKED.

Okay, so I state my opinion and now I’m so bad I can be beaten by physical skills with condi damage. I’m just giving my opinion of the state of PvP in this game based on your know it all replies, no need to make ridiculous generalizations. The PvP in this game is complete garbage, there is nothing you can say to disprove that. I can tell you think you know everything, and I’m assuming you think you’re good. Glad to hear that. I’m also assuming you’re in your teens, live at home with mommy and daddy and play 10 hours a day. Just like pretty much everyone in the ESL teams.

The OP asked a simple question, you’re the only one who came in here, throwing generalizations around and saying this and that about “good players” and “bad players” and “average vs average players” and trying to disprove everyone’s simple answers.

You could have just said “Sure, Vanilla is okay” or “Ah not really” just like the 2nd comment pretty much said and this thread would have been quickly finished.

yes it’s viable.

Compare the viable core warrior to a meh 5.5 out of 10 girl with a bit of a butterface who u might kitten if u are drunk. And u still have to do all of the work.

Then compare an elite variation to 8/10 girls(minimum) with D-cup kittens and a rocking kitten . Who will kitten the kitten out of u while u watch TV at the same time.

Tu Sevun.7946:

Okay, so I state my opinion and now I’m so bad I can be beaten by physical skills with condi damage. I’m just giving my opinion of the state of PvP in this game based on your know it all replies, no need to make ridiculous generalizations. The PvP in this game is complete garbage, there is nothing you can say to disprove that. I can tell you think you know everything, and I’m assuming you think you’re good. Glad to hear that. I’m also assuming you’re in your teens, live at home with mommy and daddy and play 10 hours a day. Just like pretty much everyone in the ESL teams.

The OP asked a simple question, you’re the only one who came in here, throwing generalizations around and saying this and that about “good players” and “bad players” and “average vs average players” and trying to disprove everyone’s simple answers.

You could have just said “Sure, Vanilla is okay” or “Ah not really” just like the 2nd comment pretty much said and this thread would have been quickly finished.

Your right, i could of said alot of things. Also doesnt matter if im good or not. Question from the OP is vanilla warrior viable? If i were to play vanilla warrior against the players i normally play against in ranked que, i would be the weakest link every match and that wouldnt be the case had i used beserker trait line.

Also you wrote that the Pro Players are not that skilled, people that spend 5-8 hrs a day 3-5 days a week on this game in 1 vs 1 situations, 2 vs 2, etc etc etc.

There is literally a thread by Nova Striker talking smack to Chaith (Fivegauge) about how good he is, about how he is just as good as any ESL player and how he has played and beaten him all the time.

Chaith got sick of it and on his thread posted “im in game right now where are you” and then proceed to beat him when he played multiple classes. Dude switched classes after losing each time and Chaith screen shot all of them and post it on his forum.

Say what you want its your opinion but lets just be clear, you are wrong. Like i said earlier you need to define what you think “viable” is to explain it. Also that is how a debate works, throwing out actual situations, using examples and breaking it down.

Everyone here including yourself say yeah its fine PvP is brain dead, or its decent enough to run around in unranked, which is not the OP question. Also of course i could of stopped after my 2nd comment but i refuse to let this person be lied to with vague comments.

Sure is, Crysis uses it.

I find vanilla warrior having better team utility and support. Imo berserker is better if you want to be purely offensive.

No

kdaddy, look I see what you are saying. But this guy comes in here and says, “Hi I’m a RETURNING player, is vanilla warrior viable.” If you really think he’s coming in here and asking if it’s viable versus Chaith, Paul, Tarcis, Phanta, Helseth and the like, than okay, but I can read between the lines.

I just wanted to chime in and say given the state of ranked queues, you could provably play it with some success. However, against a comp of all meta classes, it will be harder to be effective at all skill levels.
It is viable enough to have fun. If you are looking for legendary, there is less stress on you running berzerker.

No.
you basicly lose half skills without berz.
hb alone hits like 100 blades….
no condi clean every 3 sec…
no stability,no crit chance,no crit dmg,no spd,so if you wana troll in hotjoin,rank farm vanila is for you,anything else,you are useless.

So…you do nto like vanilla warrior. you don’t have success with it,

but obviously people still do have success with it. it all comes down to your personal play style. I’m the kind of player that plays a multitude of different builds, i typically have success with Vanilla warrior, though I agree that berserker is more powerful. you can say that vanilla is not viable, but what you really mean is that it’s not the most powerful spec. you are correct there, but something does not have to be the most powerful to be good.

Slytren.9236:

Hi guys. I am a returning player. Stopped playing sometime before HoT, because of college, and now I finally have time to play again. Since I don’t have the expansion, I was wondering if vanilla warrior is still viable in PvP. I know that hammer/gs is still somewhat viable, but I was wondering about other builds.

In Unranked? Sure. Vanillla warrior is viable. Take your pick of builds, power or condi even. Practice.

In Ranked? I couldn’t tell you.

tbh if berserk could be used without taking the berserker traitline than core warrior would honestly be stronger than berserker for every power and bunker build. (berserker traitline is still good for condi builds since it is a condi traitline.)

Sadly the fact that the new profession mechanics are tied to the elite spec means that all classes need the elite traitline to be competitive.

emkelly.2371:

So…you do nto like vanilla warrior. you don’t have success with it,

but obviously people still do have success with it. it all comes down to your personal play style. I’m the kind of player that plays a multitude of different builds, i typically have success with Vanilla warrior, though I agree that berserker is more powerful. you can say that vanilla is not viable, but what you really mean is that it’s not the most powerful spec. you are correct there, but something does not have to be the most powerful to be good.

its far more forgiving,you can make 5x more mistakes and still win vs vanila,just pure burst is +100% in half time.
when you meet vanila war in ranked (which is 1/500) no condi obviously,he just cant deal dmg to anything, with bers full zerker gs/axe shield,even i have trouble to burst druids and eles…

No, vanilla is not viable. Which is why I played vanilla rifle from diamond to legendary this PvP season

Ended up working better for me than zerk rifle, but that’s just me.

Fun fact. Eviscerate hurts regardless of spec. (Vanilla power, or Berserker’s power) and the you have to build adrenaline to 100 to rage. Meanwhile in vanilla land. I’m bursting every 5 seconds. Yes Berserker’s is stronger. Because all elite specs are more powerful, but vanilla warrior is one of the only class specs that can still stand up to elite specs. (Necro is not bad either I hear)

The long and short of it is that yes it’s still viable for your average player, even good players. But it’s not viable for people she intend to play strictly competitively. But if you only care about winning, you are playing the game wrong.

Also, gave you are a hero

Ok this is me in ranked, im playing rifle warrior solo que in ranked. I run far and win a 1 vs 2 vs a thief and necro. Then proceed to to win 2 vs 3 and multiple 1 vs 1.

There is no possible way i could of done this on vanilla so if we want to say that vanilla is viable at times vs certain players fine.

Emkelly wants to say that if your playing competitively your playing the game wrong, sure thats fine.

So i will end it like this, if you want to legitimately play with the top 10% of the players in the game, you will need the HOT spec.

Don’t disagree with you about the top 10% thing, but 2v1 thief necro? impossible? you need to practice your vanilla then. As for the 2v2s, that’s dependent on who you have on your team and how well you work together.

Thief: Regardless of your spec will die with one good burst combo

Necromancers: once you eat through their shroud they are seriously done for. and you have the resistance, stability, and in-vulnerabilities to ignore their burst long enough to kill them even 2v1 regardless of spec.

im running this vanilla meta in PvP and doing great even against Dragon Hunters and necros/reapers or rangers. thieves/mesmers is melted completely. i become tottally addicted.

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Warrior_-_GS/Hammer

It seems like the hammer is no longer common, most pvps unaware of how to contain it, even the pros meta-guys like bunker DH’s.

I user hammer #5 and the guys just stand instead of run! its lolz.

The only guys that scares me its the bunker/power daredevils, they do great in 1vs1 against me, but skilled daredevils its very rare to see. most of them goes thieves.

The Rampage Elite is amazing. u do literraly a rampage.

To be clear: ofc im not talking of fights the ubber-pros gods of pvp. im talking of going in unranked and dont be melted in few seconds, and have decent amount of kills.

The returning players fears, is about the game messes up their build when they was offline.

A vanilla build I used was something like this:

Full Knight gear
Strength-Defense-Discipline
Hammer with Mace and Shield
Paralyzing sigils on both Hammer and Mace
Bull’s Charge, Stomp and Signet of Precision

With Sharpening Stone, Scrapper Runes and Armored Attack trait you have 2600 power and 4000 armor, plus the additional 7% damage reduction. Choose whatever food you want.

Basically your job would be the chain CC and weakness (Body Blow trait), while staying alive. Damage output is still very good due to high precision and power, and the Merciless Hammer trait (20% damage) along with Berserker/Stick and Move traits (30% damage).

You also have plenty of condition removal with Brawler’s recovery, Mending and Cleansing Ire. Mobility comes from Warrior’s Sprint, Bull’s Charge and Earthshaker.