Guild Wars 2

If anything:

Tone down Lemongrass, not DM. I didn’t even agree with ~98% immunity to movement impairing conditions before this build became mainstream. WvW fixed, sPvP unchanged.

If you do anything, that’s where you start. Next you wait. People will learn how to fight this build just like they learned how to fight D/D serker thieves. Mace was scarcely seen before. Once they added that extra second, it became immensely popular. The only thing that pulled mace out of 11 months of obscurity was that 1 additional second on its stun. If they reduce it, they need to give lots of love somewhere else.

This topic, however noble, will get lost in countless of nerf demanding posts. Sorry bru, but the wheels have already been set in motion.

Just counter Lemongrass with Rare Veggie Pizza. The two foods cancel each other. No need to nerf Lemongrass.

nicknamenick.2437:

Cygnus.6903:

This topic, however noble, will get lost in countless of nerf demanding posts. Sorry bru, but the wheels have already been set in motion.

Yes in countless nerfing posts from others.. why not start our own?
Do you want to get a nerf that brings many builds to nothing, or do you want a minimal nerf so they and we are happy?

Again, I thinkyour initiative is noble and somewhat agree with the course of action your trying to take. I disagree, however, about the build being OP. And I don’t even play it (tried but the playstyle didn’t interest me).

And again, the wheels of nerf have been set in motion. I think there is little we can do to stop it. A bit pessimistic, I admit, but hopefully we will be viable afterwards.

Lastly, I wouldn’t like a nerf on lemongrass. Warriors wouldn’t be the only ones suffering from this. And being somewhat immune to unboosted movement impairing conditions seems only fitting on a warrior.

Lemongrass is fine. It’s the way GW2 stacks duration from different sources that isn’t. Duration should stack multiplicatively. That means 33% reduction is actually a 33% reduction, not a 95% reduction. Same with duration increases, a 40% duration increase should increase duration by 40%, not by 25%.

The skill distribution on the GS is the real problem. Just saying.

nerf warrior stun, mobility, and sustain and it will be balanced again.

Excalibur.9748:

nerf warrior stun, mobility, and sustain and it will be balanced again.

LOL…

I like how people who have no clue about the game are posting. <3

Go back to the thief forums.

Excalibur.9748:

nerf warrior stun, mobility, and sustain and it will be balanced again.

Terribad troll this guy.

If you nerf lemongrass you need to nerf rare vegi pizza. They both cancel each other and removing 1 but leaving the other is bad.

Puandro.3245:

If you nerf lemongrass you need to nerf rare vegi pizza. They both cancel each other and removing 1 but leaving the other is bad.

Not necessarily, 98% condition immune is a bit much. However 140% condition duration doesn’t seem to be too OP.

Puandro.3245:

If you nerf lemongrass you need to nerf rare vegi pizza. They both cancel each other and removing 1 but leaving the other is bad.

Agreed. This is only my opinion, but I don’t believe a player should have to worry about his base CC durations being negated by 98%… 70-85%, sure, but those skills were generated as a tool to function within the overall vision for that weapon/utility/trait. A player shouldn’t have to stack anything to get some return on a base skill. If base stun or knockdown duration could be reduced to 2%, the shoe would be on the other foot. For some builds, those soft CCs and movement skills are the only things standing between them and being forced to melee with a warrior, who, if he’s any good, will likely kick the crap out of them.

Veritas.6071:

Puandro.3245:

If you nerf lemongrass you need to nerf rare vegi pizza. They both cancel each other and removing 1 but leaving the other is bad.

Agreed. This is only my opinion, but I don’t believe a player should have to worry about his base CC durations being negated by 98%… 70-85%, sure, but those skills were generated as a tool to function within the overall vision for that weapon/utility/trait. A player shouldn’t have to stack anything to get some return on a base skill. If base stun or knockdown duration could be reduced to 2%, the shoe would be on the other foot. For some builds, those soft CCs and movement skills are the only things standing between them and being forced to melee with a warrior, who, if he’s any good, will likely kick the crap out of them.

And the warrior needs to invest heavily to accomplish such a thing. Melandru or Hoelbrak runes, where you can equip anything else. Lemongrass food is not the only great food stuff. And the mandatory 10 points into defense for the mandatory trait.

Your comparison to stuns and knockdowns is bordering ridiculous. Conditions can be applied by AUTO-ATTACK, and bursted by many skills/utilities/traits/runes/sigils and I am forgetting stuff. Stuns and knockdowns either come with serious cooldowns, are hard to land or both.

Besides, rework your build if the only thing you have against any melee class is a freaking cripple. Bad comparison allround bru.

I just posted this in another thread: WvW isn’t supposed to balanced. It isn’t made for 1v1, 1v2, 3v3, etc. fights. It’s made for small groups (5-10) and zergs, at which point your… lemongrass is basically a wash.

Cygnus.6903:

Veritas.6071:

Puandro.3245:

If you nerf lemongrass you need to nerf rare vegi pizza. They both cancel each other and removing 1 but leaving the other is bad.

Agreed. This is only my opinion, but I don’t believe a player should have to worry about his base CC durations being negated by 98%… 70-85%, sure, but those skills were generated as a tool to function within the overall vision for that weapon/utility/trait. A player shouldn’t have to stack anything to get some return on a base skill. If base stun or knockdown duration could be reduced to 2%, the shoe would be on the other foot. For some builds, those soft CCs and movement skills are the only things standing between them and being forced to melee with a warrior, who, if he’s any good, will likely kick the crap out of them.

And the warrior needs to invest heavily to accomplish such a thing. Melandru or Hoelbrak runes, where you can equip anything else. Lemongrass food is not the only great food stuff. And the mandatory 10 points into defense for the mandatory trait.

Your comparison to stuns and knockdowns is bordering ridiculous. Conditions can be applied by AUTO-ATTACK, and bursted by many skills/utilities/traits/runes/sigils and I am forgetting stuff. Stuns and knockdowns either come with serious cooldowns, are hard to land or both.

Besides, rework your build if the only thing you have against any melee class is a freaking cripple. Bad comparison allround bru.

We don’t have to invest as heavily as the guy trying to push his CC condis to counter our investment.

Talking CC condis here. Not condis in general. Only classes I’m aware of CCing with auto-attack are MH sword thief and warrior. I play warrior by the way haha.

That’s a good point about the hard vs soft CC. Something like Pin Down, Muddy Terrain, Bolas or Caltrops are good examples of what I was thinking about. They all have 20 second or greater cooldown, they all are designed to provide some degree control, and they can all be 98% negated by the combo in question.

Manijin.3428:

I just posted this in another thread: WvW isn’t supposed to balanced. It isn’t made for 1v1, 1v2, 3v3, etc. fights. It’s made for small groups (5-10) and zergs, at which point your… lemongrass is basically a wash.

So it should take small groups of players to CC a warrior?

Veritas.6071:

Manijin.3428:

I just posted this in another thread: WvW isn’t supposed to balanced. It isn’t made for 1v1, 1v2, 3v3, etc. fights. It’s made for small groups (5-10) and zergs, at which point your… lemongrass is basically a wash.

So it should take small groups of players to CC a warrior?

If it takes a small group of 5-10 people on your team to take down a warrior, I’m afraid I have bad news for you… And if your complaint is about lemongrass… then fine. Complain about lemongrass. As I said: WvW isn’t supposed to be micro-balanced. It’s macro-balanced. That has ALWAYS been the point. If you don’t like it… don’t get in 1v1 fights with warriors that have mace/shield. Save yourself the time, save them the time. /shrug

Sidenote: And, it’d be just as hard to CC anyone else with lemongrass. Why are we bringing up warriors when, clearly, the problem is lemongrass? I always hear about these uber-warriors owning people in WvW, and I think: “Well, gear isn’t balanced, skills aren’t as fine-tuned, and you have access to consumable buffs that tip the scale. Why does EVERY warrior build for WvW, then, require lemongrass?”

Manijin.3428:

Veritas.6071:

Manijin.3428:

I just posted this in another thread: WvW isn’t supposed to balanced. It isn’t made for 1v1, 1v2, 3v3, etc. fights. It’s made for small groups (5-10) and zergs, at which point your… lemongrass is basically a wash.

So it should take small groups of players to CC a warrior?

If it takes a small group of 5-10 people on your team to take down a warrior, I’m afraid I have bad news for you…

Well from your response it sounded like you were implying that because 5-10 people can CC a warrior with lemongrass/runes/and DM that there isn’t an issue.

If i run dogged march and melandru anf lemongrass i have -98% reduction. If the enemy runs vegi pizza its down to -58%. Few months back this math was being done multiplicative resulting in condition duration being worthless vs condition reduction but it has been fixed. Example a necro with 30 in its power line and vegi pizza has 70% duration to all condis, add runes or weapons and you can push 100% to all condis. This means im not immune to soft cc anymore its actuslly a wash.

This is why if you remove lemongrass you need to remove vegi pizza.

Puandro.3245:

If i run dogged march and melandru anf lemongrass i have -98% reduction. If the enemy runs vegi pizza its down to -58%. Few months back this math was being done multiplicative resulting in condition duration being worthless vs condition reduction but it has been fixed. Example a necro with 30 in its power line and vegi pizza has 70% duration to all condis, add runes or weapons and you can push 100% to all condis. This means im not immune to soft cc anymore its actuslly a wash.

This is why if you remove lemongrass you need to remove vegi pizza.

I don’t know about removed. Maybe reduced if anything. Let me emphasize, if anything. A warrior can get that -98% with food, runes and 10 points. The CCer needs food, runes and 30 points. That’s a lot of investment to maintain the equivalent of his base CC skills/traits/utilities. Meanwhile, if the guy isn’t running the melandru setup, you’ve given away tons of potential stat points for increasing your damage so you could hope to counter a single setup. Sure he’ll be CCed to hell and back, but you’re still missing out on a lot of DPS. I just think it’s a little over the top.

nicknamenick.2437:

Puandro.3245:

If i run dogged march and melandru anf lemongrass i have -98% reduction. If the enemy runs vegi pizza its down to -58%. Few months back this math was being done multiplicative resulting in condition duration being worthless vs condition reduction but it has been fixed. Example a necro with 30 in its power line and vegi pizza has 70% duration to all condis, add runes or weapons and you can push 100% to all condis. This means im not immune to soft cc anymore its actuslly a wash.

This is why if you remove lemongrass you need to remove vegi pizza.

Hmm yeah agree indeed… (didnt know that) i saw old posts complaining the +% issnt good againt -% conditition..

remove that vegi pizza also.. freaking condition meta!! :-P

wait, do you have a source? It doesn’t make sense it’s all being done additively for some reason.

Thinking logically…140% condition duration does nothing when it’s negated by -98% condition duration.

Excalibur.9748:

nicknamenick.2437:

Puandro.3245:

If i run dogged march and melandru anf lemongrass i have -98% reduction. If the enemy runs vegi pizza its down to -58%. Few months back this math was being done multiplicative resulting in condition duration being worthless vs condition reduction but it has been fixed. Example a necro with 30 in its power line and vegi pizza has 70% duration to all condis, add runes or weapons and you can push 100% to all condis. This means im not immune to soft cc anymore its actuslly a wash.

This is why if you remove lemongrass you need to remove vegi pizza.

Hmm yeah agree indeed… (didnt know that) i saw old posts complaining the +% issnt good againt -% conditition..

remove that vegi pizza also.. freaking condition meta!! :-P

wait, do you have a source? It doesn’t make sense it’s all being done additively for some reason.

Thinking logically…140% condition duration does nothing when it’s negated by -98% condition duration.

Sorry, that would end up with 42% Condition Duration left, they changed it awile ago so it subtracted from the additictive, not the base.

I complained about it before.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Lemongrass-Food-Nerf/first#post2102649

Manijin.3428:

I just posted this in another thread: WvW isn’t supposed to balanced. It isn’t made for 1v1, 1v2, 3v3, etc. fights. It’s made for small groups (5-10) and zergs, at which point your… lemongrass is basically a wash.

Ya balancing wvw for small group fights seems like a bad idea…. lemongrass is ok dont get me wrong but most of the top guilds continue to use ye same ole soldier runes and shout builds…

So ya im not seeing where lemongrass needs to get toned down…

Also necros not warriors are probably in highest demand at the moment at the moment, lemon grass is cool, infinite target fear is cooler and they dont have the staff eles squishy drawbacks.

Daecollo.9578:

Excalibur.9748:

nicknamenick.2437:

Puandro.3245:

If i run dogged march and melandru anf lemongrass i have -98% reduction. If the enemy runs vegi pizza its down to -58%. Few months back this math was being done multiplicative resulting in condition duration being worthless vs condition reduction but it has been fixed. Example a necro with 30 in its power line and vegi pizza has 70% duration to all condis, add runes or weapons and you can push 100% to all condis. This means im not immune to soft cc anymore its actuslly a wash.

This is why if you remove lemongrass you need to remove vegi pizza.

Hmm yeah agree indeed… (didnt know that) i saw old posts complaining the +% issnt good againt -% conditition..

remove that vegi pizza also.. freaking condition meta!! :-P

wait, do you have a source? It doesn’t make sense it’s all being done additively for some reason.

Thinking logically…140% condition duration does nothing when it’s negated by -98% condition duration.

Sorry, that would end up with 42% Condition Duration left, they changed it awile ago so it subtracted from the additictive, not the base.

I complained about it before.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Lemongrass-Food-Nerf/first#post2102649

Ya its 42% remaining not 98% of the 140%… basically if u got rare veggie pizza you negate the lemongrass entirely (except the 70 vit and 10 exp from it), yes pizza is expensive, lemongrass is even more so

This has already been nerfed

Daecollo.9578:

Excalibur.9748:

nicknamenick.2437:

Puandro.3245:

If i run dogged march and melandru anf lemongrass i have -98% reduction. If the enemy runs vegi pizza its down to -58%. Few months back this math was being done multiplicative resulting in condition duration being worthless vs condition reduction but it has been fixed. Example a necro with 30 in its power line and vegi pizza has 70% duration to all condis, add runes or weapons and you can push 100% to all condis. This means im not immune to soft cc anymore its actuslly a wash.

This is why if you remove lemongrass you need to remove vegi pizza.

Hmm yeah agree indeed… (didnt know that) i saw old posts complaining the +% issnt good againt -% conditition..

remove that vegi pizza also.. freaking condition meta!! :-P

wait, do you have a source? It doesn’t make sense it’s all being done additively for some reason.

Thinking logically…140% condition duration does nothing when it’s negated by -98% condition duration.

Sorry, that would end up with 42% Condition Duration left, they changed it awile ago so it subtracted from the additictive, not the base.

I complained about it before.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Lemongrass-Food-Nerf/first#post2102649

According to that topic, lemongrass works off the total, and rare veggie pizza works off the base, so the lemongrass hard counters the pizza.

Excalibur.9748:

Daecollo.9578:

Excalibur.9748:

nicknamenick.2437:

Puandro.3245:

If i run dogged march and melandru anf lemongrass i have -98% reduction. If the enemy runs vegi pizza its down to -58%. Few months back this math was being done multiplicative resulting in condition duration being worthless vs condition reduction but it has been fixed. Example a necro with 30 in its power line and vegi pizza has 70% duration to all condis, add runes or weapons and you can push 100% to all condis. This means im not immune to soft cc anymore its actuslly a wash.

This is why if you remove lemongrass you need to remove vegi pizza.

Hmm yeah agree indeed… (didnt know that) i saw old posts complaining the +% issnt good againt -% conditition..

remove that vegi pizza also.. freaking condition meta!! :-P

wait, do you have a source? It doesn’t make sense it’s all being done additively for some reason.

Thinking logically…140% condition duration does nothing when it’s negated by -98% condition duration.

Sorry, that would end up with 42% Condition Duration left, they changed it awile ago so it subtracted from the additictive, not the base.

I complained about it before.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Lemongrass-Food-Nerf/first#post2102649

According to that topic, lemongrass works off the total, and rare veggie pizza works off the base, so the lemongrass hard counters the pizza.

Has been changed, they now add/subtract each other.

Veritas.6071:

I don’t know about removed. Maybe reduced if anything. Let me emphasize, if anything. A warrior can get that -98% with food, runes and 10 points. The CCer needs food, runes and 30 points. That’s a lot of investment to maintain the equivalent of his base CC skills/traits/utilities. Meanwhile, if the guy isn’t running the melandru setup, you’ve given away tons of potential stat points for increasing your damage so you could hope to counter a single setup. Sure he’ll be CCed to hell and back, but you’re still missing out on a lot of DPS. I just think it’s a little over the top.

I give away tons of potential stat points for defensive measures, because it’s much worse for me to be in a position where I don’t have it and need it than don’t need it and have it. I feel like it’s probably similar in this case.

And 50% uptime on cripple/chill is still good cripple/chill uptime on a Warrior, considering how intensely debilitating it is. Alternatively, you could use food+Melandru to reduce stun duration by what, 65%? That means a 4 second stun is actually a 1.8 second stun.

So yeah, food. WvW. I would absolutely hate to see any builds for any classes nerfed because food is strong as hell in a WvW 1v1 scenario.

Why, you idiots create such a topic, WHY? , really you want to be nerfed, you dont know that by posting this kitten means YOU ARE OK AND ACCEPTING NERFS???!.

If anything you should prove how friging easy is to counter s skull crack gimmick, really, all of the foods CAN BE USED BY ANY CLASS!!!, ALL OF THE RUNES ARE THE SAME!!!, ALL OF THE SIGILS TOO!!! , what does this have to do with warrior???, just because an idiot dont know how to play any other of the broken classes (wich are better in any single aspcet than warrior) and usea stupid stun breaker we shouldt be posting things like this, warriors are not OP by any means, and, the class have nothing to do with a kid that cant be carried by his class.

Puandro.3245:

Excalibur.9748:

Daecollo.9578:

Excalibur.9748:

nicknamenick.2437:

Puandro.3245:

If i run dogged march and melandru anf lemongrass i have -98% reduction. If the enemy runs vegi pizza its down to -58%. Few months back this math was being done multiplicative resulting in condition duration being worthless vs condition reduction but it has been fixed. Example a necro with 30 in its power line and vegi pizza has 70% duration to all condis, add runes or weapons and you can push 100% to all condis. This means im not immune to soft cc anymore its actuslly a wash.

This is why if you remove lemongrass you need to remove vegi pizza.

Hmm yeah agree indeed… (didnt know that) i saw old posts complaining the +% issnt good againt -% conditition..

remove that vegi pizza also.. freaking condition meta!! :-P

wait, do you have a source? It doesn’t make sense it’s all being done additively for some reason.

Thinking logically…140% condition duration does nothing when it’s negated by -98% condition duration.

Sorry, that would end up with 42% Condition Duration left, they changed it awile ago so it subtracted from the additictive, not the base.

I complained about it before.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Lemongrass-Food-Nerf/first#post2102649

According to that topic, lemongrass works off the total, and rare veggie pizza works off the base, so the lemongrass hard counters the pizza.

Has been changed, they now add/subtract each other.

I complained until they changed it, its now very balanced.

The poster of the topic plays a Guardian, he does not care if Thieves are nerfed.

It would be the same as me going on the guardian forum and being like: Lets nerf ourselves!"

To those silly people that are making Durp arguments for nerfing food/runes. Think with your brain for one moment. Since those items are used across all classes it would affect them also. SO NO.

Simpler solution as follows:
DM from 33% to 15%
Skull crack from 3 sec to 1 and half with 10 stacks of vulnerability for 10 sec
and HB from 8 sec to 10 sec default (guardian whirling wrath on gs is 10 sec default anyway so it would bring it inline with other heavy gs burst)

that would work imo slight nerf..should make that op combo less abusing.

skillionaire.3574:

To those silly people that are making Durp arguments for nerfing food/runes. Think with your brain for one moment. Since those items are used across all classes it would affect them also. SO NO.

Simpler solution as follows:
DM from 33% to 15%
Skull crack from 3 sec to 1 and half with 10 stacks of vulnerability for 10 sec
and HB from 8 sec to 10 sec default (guardian whirling wrath on gs is 10 sec default anyway so it would bring it inline with other heavy gs burst)

that would work imo slight nerf..should make that op combo less abusing.

You bads really are funny. lol

I really hope they don’t balance warriors around WvW, as this thread implies.

I also don’t see much discussion on how OP warriors are, beyond the title of some posts.

100 blades is massive burst? your team cant stop a channeling player thats rooted?

I can almost imagine your entire guild getting burned down by one warrior standing there in front of your zerg trying to get off 100b. Your entire zerg just stands there screaming into vent, omg get him off us, we can’t dodge, simply step backwards or instantly gib/cc him. roflmao.

No, seriously stop being bad, 100b is the easiest to stop or avoid attack in game. It can work in spvp, but lets not pretend the warrior is not standing there wide open to be instantly gibbed in wvw/large scale fighting.

skillionaire.3574:

To those silly people that are making Durp arguments for nerfing food/runes. Think with your brain for one moment. Since those items are used across all classes it would affect them also. SO NO.

Simpler solution as follows:
DM from 33% to 15%
Skull crack from 3 sec to 1 and half with 10 stacks of vulnerability for 10 sec
and HB from 8 sec to 10 sec default (guardian whirling wrath on gs is 10 sec default anyway so it would bring it inline with other heavy gs burst)

that would work imo slight nerf..should make that op combo less abusing.

You’re thinking that a DM change from 33% to 15% will make it so Warriors go from 98% snare reduction to 80% snare condi reduction? You’re balancing a class’s trait based on WvW food and gear choice.

What you’re doing is pigeon-holing the Warrior class.

Oh also, you’re making Skull Crack completely useless garbage. If you want to change it, at least have it stun for 1.5 second and daze for an additional 1.5 second (3 seconds total), or something. Anything but a 10% damage increase on the target and a 1.5 second stun that makes it so WvWers feel like they can 1v1 the spec more easily.

Or better yet, explain your changes and how they benefit the class as a whole while fixing the problem. You could try defining the problem as well, but no one seems to be able to with anything but “omg 4 seconds of stun every 7 second so imba”.

Get +98% Condition Duration to counter the -98% Condition Duration.