As the title says, I am looking for help on winning fights (or even win 1) vs these types of berzerkers. regular berzerkers (DPS variant) its a matter of keeping distance, however with the rifle having range (and quickness burst hurts like hell on it) and despite running condi cleanses, burnzerkers have that bit of range on either LB or sword rage fireball thingy and have wicked burn sustain with CC’s to set them up.
Any tips will be helpful (aside from running as I am in it to win it)
I see other classes asking other classes the same thing in other class forums so I am hoping the warrior/berserker community is as awesome as the others.
What do you normally play?
What do you normally play?
Mainly staff/LB druid (survival/MM/Dr), but have been starting to use my sword/axe + staff rev (DPS, just learning tho). I play a bit of others but main the druid atm and started the rev on and off.
DPS zerkers its easier…just stay out of melee range and range them down, these mentioned variants (even with staff 5 for rifle) are always rough fights.
I can’t say I have a well informed opinion on that particular matchup, but….
Against the rifle I suggest you keep range as much as you can. It will increase the telegraph and give you time to react. The most important skill to dodge is Gunflane, not just because of the damage, but because landing a burst skill is key to the warrior’s survival. It may seem counter intuitive to stay range when his main weapon is ranged, but your bow can do more damage if you just avoid that burst. Strafing to avoid Volley is good too. As soon as he turns red, he’s going to want to spam gunflame, si just use extra care then.
Through stealth (hunters shot(?), celestial shadow, blasting smoke) and the staff, you have the tools you need to win the kite game. And your sustain will be way higher than his if you deny his burst (he could shoot your pet, bet better the pet than you).
Also, if he’s got Signet of Might on his bar, don’t rely on blocks or reflects. If it disappears from his bar, he’s going to gunflame you within the next 6s and he’ll be inblockable.
You can’t deny a bow warrior his burst unless you can reflect the ground targeted shot. It can be done, but it’s not a strategy.
Here again, you’re way better off at range unless you can lock him up in cc (which won’t happen unless the warrior is unprepared). Despite being a ranged weapon, the warrior bow is mostly only dangerous up close. The arrows move really slowly and the big damage dealers suck against targets that are far away. The sword fireballs are obvious and can be avoided if you aren’t tied up.
As well, remember that most warrior builds have limited Condi diversity, so you should be able to purge that burn if you get caught in a trap.
If you’re in close quarters, I don’t have any real suggestion with your main build. I know so much less about Rev, I can’t give much advice there.
What do you normally play?
druid
I found your problem right there. Play something else, druid is not good – I don’t care what anyone says, I’ve literally never lost a fight to a druid on my warriors, Guardians or Elementalist.
Guardian and Elementalist do pretty well against warriors in most cases depending on build. I have a couple of roaming builds on my website for ele and guardian that I’ve beat up on warriors with pretty often. The elementalist especially has a decent amount of reflect up time which ends up making rifle warriors kill themselves, pretty funny. A smart rifle warrior won’t fall for it though, they’ll swap weapons.
As far as condi warrior goes, the counter is power warrior and Guardian. Druid has a decent condi clear, but if the condi warrior is smart, they’ll put a small bit of condis on you so you blow your clear then they’ll load you up and watch you go to down state.
I’m assuming you’re talking roaming or dueling, so I can make some suggestions.
My recommendation for classes/builds below.
Guardian Build
Elementalist Build
Condi Warrior Build
As far as the condi warrior build that I recommended goes, it is not a good plan to play it vs a good power warrior. A good power warrior will beat me on my condi warrior 9 times out of 10 in my experience, and I consider myself to be pretty good at condi warrior. Against another condi warrior though, you could outplay them if they don’t play their cooldowns well. I’ve beaten up on several condi warriors with ease because I made them blow their berserker stance early in the fight then just baited them around until it was up then dropped my full burst on them. The key when fighting another warrior to beat them with the condi warrior build is to keep them stunned/dazed. That is the only good way I’ve beaten power warriors as well on it.
I’ve seen a lot of people roaming on rangers recently because of their mobility and heals, but over all, they’re pretty much all worthless in fights unless they’re fighting really bad players with really bad builds. I build all of my characters to be well rounded with damage and survivability for roaming. Rangers are built for mobility and survival most of the time which leave them very weak in the damage department, then if they try to go bigger in the damage department, they lose a lot of their survival ability. Over all just not the right class for roaming in my opinion. Much better choices.
What do you normally play?
druid
I found your problem right there. Play something else, druid is not good – I don’t care what anyone says, I’ve literally never lost a fight to a druid on my warriors, Guardians or Elementalist.
Guardian and Elementalist do pretty well against warriors in most cases depending on build. I have a couple of roaming builds on my website for ele and guardian that I’ve beat up on warriors with pretty often. The elementalist especially has a decent amount of reflect up time which ends up making rifle warriors kill themselves, pretty funny. A smart rifle warrior won’t fall for it though, they’ll swap weapons.
As far as condi warrior goes, the counter is power warrior and Guardian. Druid has a decent condi clear, but if the condi warrior is smart, they’ll put a small bit of condis on you so you blow your clear then they’ll load you up and watch you go to down state.
I’m assuming you’re talking roaming or dueling, so I can make some suggestions.
My recommendation for classes/builds below.
Guardian Build
Elementalist Build
Condi Warrior BuildAs far as the condi warrior build that I recommended goes, it is not a good plan to play it vs a good power warrior. A good power warrior will beat me on my condi warrior 9 times out of 10 in my experience, and I consider myself to be pretty good at condi warrior. Against another condi warrior though, you could outplay them if they don’t play their cooldowns well. I’ve beaten up on several condi warriors with ease because I made them blow their berserker stance early in the fight then just baited them around until it was up then dropped my full burst on them. The key when fighting another warrior to beat them with the condi warrior build is to keep them stunned/dazed. That is the only good way I’ve beaten power warriors as well on it.
I’ve seen a lot of people roaming on rangers recently because of their mobility and heals, but over all, they’re pretty much all worthless in fights unless they’re fighting really bad players with really bad builds. I build all of my characters to be well rounded with damage and survivability for roaming. Rangers are built for mobility and survival most of the time which leave them very weak in the damage department, then if they try to go bigger in the damage department, they lose a lot of their survival ability. Over all just not the right class for roaming in my opinion. Much better choices.
Thanks for the tips.
As mentioned, DPS berserker I have little issues with, quickness rifle look like I am going to have to camp from max range and time my dodges/evades.
You mentioning they will put on a bit of condis to blow my condi clears (where I have 4/5) tells me that I can clean them, however I have to be more mindful when fighting them and use my smaller/quicker cleanses first. ALso looks like another strat would be “stay ranged”.
Thanks for the tips people, just need to find some of ya’s to spar against to learn visually the rotations I should watch for.
I greatly appreciate it.
Thanks for the tips.
As mentioned, DPS berserker I have little issues with, quickness rifle look like I am going to have to camp from max range and time my dodges/evades.
You mentioning they will put on a bit of condis to blow my condi clears (where I have 4/5) tells me that I can clean them, however I have to be more mindful when fighting them and use my smaller/quicker cleanses first. ALso looks like another strat would be “stay ranged”.
Thanks for the tips people, just need to find some of ya’s to spar against to learn visually the rotations I should watch for.
I greatly appreciate it.
A lot of condi warriors that I have seen will play very aggressive like myself. Usually following our burst, we will repeatedly stun/daze you so that you can’t clear your conditions. Feel free to PM me in game if you see me if you want some practice duels.
Thanks for the tips.
As mentioned, DPS berserker I have little issues with, quickness rifle look like I am going to have to camp from max range and time my dodges/evades.
You mentioning they will put on a bit of condis to blow my condi clears (where I have 4/5) tells me that I can clean them, however I have to be more mindful when fighting them and use my smaller/quicker cleanses first. ALso looks like another strat would be “stay ranged”.
Thanks for the tips people, just need to find some of ya’s to spar against to learn visually the rotations I should watch for.
I greatly appreciate it.
A lot of condi warriors that I have seen will play very aggressive like myself. Usually following our burst, we will repeatedly stun/daze you so that you can’t clear your conditions. Feel free to PM me in game if you see me if you want some practice duels.
with 2/3 stun breaks (2 clears condis) plus my CA, that’s good to know when to keep at least 1-2. I would appreciate sparring as between zerkers (the above mentioned) and condi chronos (literally I kill myself) I suck (even tho im built to clean condis lol). I really need to learn to watch my condi stacks lol.
Thanks for the tips.
As mentioned, DPS berserker I have little issues with, quickness rifle look like I am going to have to camp from max range and time my dodges/evades.
You mentioning they will put on a bit of condis to blow my condi clears (where I have 4/5) tells me that I can clean them, however I have to be more mindful when fighting them and use my smaller/quicker cleanses first. ALso looks like another strat would be “stay ranged”.
Thanks for the tips people, just need to find some of ya’s to spar against to learn visually the rotations I should watch for.
I greatly appreciate it.
A lot of condi warriors that I have seen will play very aggressive like myself. Usually following our burst, we will repeatedly stun/daze you so that you can’t clear your conditions. Feel free to PM me in game if you see me if you want some practice duels.
with 2/3 stun breaks (2 clears condis) plus my CA, that’s good to know when to keep at least 1-2. I would appreciate sparring as between zerkers (the above mentioned) and condi chronos (literally I kill myself) I suck (even tho im built to clean condis lol). I really need to learn to watch my condi stacks lol.
My main account is “Josh XT.6053”, my alt account is this one that I am posting on. Shoot me a PM some time if you see me online and we can do some duels to practice. The key to winning a lot of those fights is simply timing your clears and stun breaks, but you may still be out of luck if your DPS is not enough to take the person down.
Thanks for the tips.
As mentioned, DPS berserker I have little issues with, quickness rifle look like I am going to have to camp from max range and time my dodges/evades.
You mentioning they will put on a bit of condis to blow my condi clears (where I have 4/5) tells me that I can clean them, however I have to be more mindful when fighting them and use my smaller/quicker cleanses first. ALso looks like another strat would be “stay ranged”.
Thanks for the tips people, just need to find some of ya’s to spar against to learn visually the rotations I should watch for.
I greatly appreciate it.
A lot of condi warriors that I have seen will play very aggressive like myself. Usually following our burst, we will repeatedly stun/daze you so that you can’t clear your conditions. Feel free to PM me in game if you see me if you want some practice duels.
with 2/3 stun breaks (2 clears condis) plus my CA, that’s good to know when to keep at least 1-2. I would appreciate sparring as between zerkers (the above mentioned) and condi chronos (literally I kill myself) I suck (even tho im built to clean condis lol). I really need to learn to watch my condi stacks lol.
My main account is “Josh XT.6053”, my alt account is this one that I am posting on. Shoot me a PM some time if you see me online and we can do some duels to practice. The key to winning a lot of those fights is simply timing your clears and stun breaks, but you may still be out of luck if your DPS is not enough to take the person down.
I may take ya up on that offer.
In the meantime I started to run condizerker and learned that if I avoid the headbutt it will greatly decrease the condi output/burst. Look slike I will need to either stay ranged or try to force the headbutt and evade it (more ballsy).
As cheesy as I feel running it (able to 2v1 easily with it on the first day I played it), I used to run a lot of condi builds pre HoT (engi/ranger/necro/guard) I kinda miss a strong condi build. Breath of fresh air the first 3 days of playing it,lol
Thanks for the tips.
As mentioned, DPS berserker I have little issues with, quickness rifle look like I am going to have to camp from max range and time my dodges/evades.
You mentioning they will put on a bit of condis to blow my condi clears (where I have 4/5) tells me that I can clean them, however I have to be more mindful when fighting them and use my smaller/quicker cleanses first. ALso looks like another strat would be “stay ranged”.
Thanks for the tips people, just need to find some of ya’s to spar against to learn visually the rotations I should watch for.
I greatly appreciate it.
A lot of condi warriors that I have seen will play very aggressive like myself. Usually following our burst, we will repeatedly stun/daze you so that you can’t clear your conditions. Feel free to PM me in game if you see me if you want some practice duels.
with 2/3 stun breaks (2 clears condis) plus my CA, that’s good to know when to keep at least 1-2. I would appreciate sparring as between zerkers (the above mentioned) and condi chronos (literally I kill myself) I suck (even tho im built to clean condis lol). I really need to learn to watch my condi stacks lol.
My main account is “Josh XT.6053”, my alt account is this one that I am posting on. Shoot me a PM some time if you see me online and we can do some duels to practice. The key to winning a lot of those fights is simply timing your clears and stun breaks, but you may still be out of luck if your DPS is not enough to take the person down.
I may take ya up on that offer.
In the meantime I started to run condizerker and learned that if I avoid the headbutt it will greatly decrease the condi output/burst. Look slike I will need to either stay ranged or try to force the headbutt and evade it (more ballsy).
As cheesy as I feel running it (able to 2v1 easily with it on the first day I played it), I used to run a lot of condi builds pre HoT (engi/ranger/necro/guard) I kinda miss a strong condi build. Breath of fresh air the first 3 days of playing it,lol
Yeah it is a really insane build lol. Once you learn the combo, it is nearly unstoppable when timed well. The problem with fighting other warriors with it is that they have a lot of stun break, condi clear and resistance. Hard to out play that, but it is possible.
Thanks for the tips.
As mentioned, DPS berserker I have little issues with, quickness rifle look like I am going to have to camp from max range and time my dodges/evades.
You mentioning they will put on a bit of condis to blow my condi clears (where I have 4/5) tells me that I can clean them, however I have to be more mindful when fighting them and use my smaller/quicker cleanses first. ALso looks like another strat would be “stay ranged”.
Thanks for the tips people, just need to find some of ya’s to spar against to learn visually the rotations I should watch for.
I greatly appreciate it.
A lot of condi warriors that I have seen will play very aggressive like myself. Usually following our burst, we will repeatedly stun/daze you so that you can’t clear your conditions. Feel free to PM me in game if you see me if you want some practice duels.
with 2/3 stun breaks (2 clears condis) plus my CA, that’s good to know when to keep at least 1-2. I would appreciate sparring as between zerkers (the above mentioned) and condi chronos (literally I kill myself) I suck (even tho im built to clean condis lol). I really need to learn to watch my condi stacks lol.
My main account is “Josh XT.6053”, my alt account is this one that I am posting on. Shoot me a PM some time if you see me online and we can do some duels to practice. The key to winning a lot of those fights is simply timing your clears and stun breaks, but you may still be out of luck if your DPS is not enough to take the person down.
I may take ya up on that offer.
In the meantime I started to run condizerker and learned that if I avoid the headbutt it will greatly decrease the condi output/burst. Look slike I will need to either stay ranged or try to force the headbutt and evade it (more ballsy).
As cheesy as I feel running it (able to 2v1 easily with it on the first day I played it), I used to run a lot of condi builds pre HoT (engi/ranger/necro/guard) I kinda miss a strong condi build. Breath of fresh air the first 3 days of playing it,lol
Yeah it is a really insane build lol. Once you learn the combo, it is nearly unstoppable when timed well. The problem with fighting other warriors with it is that they have a lot of stun break, condi clear and resistance. Hard to out play that, but it is possible.
I know that most condi zerkers use sword/sh or sword/torch (my fav so far), I don’t see many LB (prob the projectile hate). I understand mace (stuns with perplexity rune, and with rage burst bar) but I camp sword more than my mace (for mace shield) and I find that the overall condi damage is greater with sword fireball than with mace smash thingy (unless I interrupt then the extra condi application does a bit more damage). I also tried sword/sword and it had its pro and con.
Con:
Only 1 attack block and stun was good for setting up a small condi burst
No reflect in a projectile loving world
Pro:
Torment hurts (even berzerkers due to their GS running abilities) especially if you are chasing and they are always just out of range (that 900 range torment)
Extra source of condi
So less survivability for extra condi damage
Both worked well in different situations
My sw/sw variation:
The faster the adrenaline build, the better (and this will help if you miss your headbutt due to the regen)
I do swap between that and this:
I fits someone’s primetime (and lots of zerging) I will usually run this. If its not and there are lots of small scale / roamers then I will run the sw/sw variant
What do you think? (I think the mace one is close to yours, but the inspiration came from Hadi’s build with some minor tweaks)
I know that most condi zerkers use sword/sh or sword/torch (my fav so far), I don’t see many LB (prob the projectile hate). I understand mace (stuns with perplexity rune, and with rage burst bar) but I camp sword more than my mace (for mace shield) and I find that the overall condi damage is greater with sword fireball than with mace smash thingy (unless I interrupt then the extra condi application does a bit more damage). I also tried sword/sword and it had its pro and con.
Con:
Only 1 attack block and stun was good for setting up a small condi burst
No reflect in a projectile loving worldPro:
Torment hurts (even berzerkers due to their GS running abilities) especially if you are chasing and they are always just out of range (that 900 range torment)
Extra source of condiSo less survivability for extra condi damage
Both worked well in different situations
My sw/sw variation:
The faster the adrenaline build, the better (and this will help if you miss your headbutt due to the regen)
I do swap between that and this:
I fits someone’s primetime (and lots of zerging) I will usually run this. If its not and there are lots of small scale / roamers then I will run the sw/sw variant
What do you think? (I think the mace one is close to yours, but the inspiration came from Hadi’s build with some minor tweaks)
Sword/Sword is fine, I just personally prefer sword/torch and mace/shield.
I’d definitely not drop Strength line for Discipline on the condi build personally. The confusion on interrupt from Strength line and Body Blow from strength line causing weakness and bleeding. You really rob yourself of a lot of damage as condi by dropping that line.
You also rob yourself of the damage on the elite skill by dropping Krait runes for perplexity. Perplexity is certainly viable and you can definitely make a build work well with that, but with the low cooldown of head butt, krait runes allow it to deal a lot of damage as well as if you’re traited in to Strength, then you also get weakness, more bleed, and confusion if it interrupts, which it normally does.
I spent a decent bit of time trying to maximize my damage output without sacrificing the high defense on that condi build and I think I’ve done it. I haven’t found any way of increasing the damage output still. And trust me, this wasn’t a build I just came up with in a build editor, I have changed my ascended armor stats multiple times, swapped several different trinkets, tried every weapon warrior has to offer and spent many hours dueling and solo roaming on it to make sure I had it right.
Sword/Torch is for the big burn and bleed autos, mace/shield is for the interrupts, confusion, and bleed bomb.
I think telling you my typical rotation may help.
Starting in sword/torch, I’ll frequently lead with:
- Head Butt (3 seconds of weakness, 2 stacks of bleeding for 8 3/4 seconds, 1 stack of burn for 4 seconds) + From Krait runes, 8 seconds of bleeding, torment, and poison.
- Then hit my F2 for Berserk Mode (4 seconds of 1 burn stack)
- Sword F1 (8 stacks of 2 3/4 second burning)
- Torch 4 (1 stack of burn for 4 seconds for each time it hits, it hits up to 5 times)
- Shattering Blow (4 stacks of bleeding for 14.5 seconds, 1 burn stack for 4 seconds)
- Outrage (1 burn stack for 4 seconds)
- Torch 5 (1 stack of burning for 1 and 1/4 seconds, then when it ends, another 2 stacks of burn for 4 seconds)
- Sword 2 (Leap finisher on Torch 5, gives fire aura, more burning)
- Swap to Mace/Shield
- Mace F1 (Blasts the torch 5 which gives might, 4 stacks of bleeding for 11.5 seconds, 4 stacks of confusion for 4 seconds, another 2 stacks of bleeding for 8.75 seconds, 3 seconds of weakness, 5 seconds of blind. If interrupts, add 4 stacks of confusion for 8 seconds.)
- Shield 4 (If interrupts, add 4 stacks of confusion for 8 seconds.)
- Mace 3 (If interrupts, add 4 stacks of confusion for 8 seconds.).
Usually by this time, most people are dead. If they’re not, pretty much rinse and repeat.
Also updated my link with that information above. http://xtremetheory.com/wvw-roaming-condi-warrior/
(edited by XTR.9604)
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