Guild Wars 2

i don’t like the new (3 full trait lines) thing.

lets say that i just want 1 trait from a line, why I’m forced to take the line fully for just that one trait ?

There are some traits that is really needed for warrior, like Cleansing Ire.

Yes making Cleansing Ire Baseline is Strong but when i saw what other professions are getting as baseline, then why not, but still there are better traits to make as baseline.

Fast Hands
No one ever can really make a build for Warrior without this trait unless maybe some PvE builds, i can go far and say this is the most important trait for warrior and what really makes the warrior what he is.

Warrior Sprint
this one is important too and since “Warrior rely on Speed” as per ANET description this trait should be baseline too.

agreed – these should be baseline. I see no reason why they wouldn’t be especially like the OP said considering what other profs are getting.

I’ll agree to Fast Hands, it should just be a part of the Warrior class. I’m on the fence with Warrior’s Sprint. It’s annoying to not have it be you can still more fast without it. It’s also very strong after the merger with Mobile Strikes.

^^^

They can get rid of Mobile Strikes and make Dogged March a minor trait in place of the useless Thick Skin.

Totally agreed with Fast Hands and I’ve been thinking the same thing for a while too. I was actually pretty disappointed to see it was not made baseline. As for Warrior’s Sprint, I think it wouldn’t be fair if warrior was the only class to get a default increased movement speed.

^^^

ANET said " Warrior Rely on Speed" when describing Warrior

its fair in my book.

Fast Hands is the reason warrior is warrior – a must base line no doubt, I really hope they will do it right this time.
As for Warrior Sprint I feel its is good and strong, but not as class defining, as warrior have a lot of access to swiftness, and there are some builds where run speed is less of an issue.
What we really must have as base is the ‘get adrenaline from hit’ from Cleansing Ire.
I saw this being mentioned somewhere else and I feel we must raise a voice about this one. Those 2 benefits from 1 trait are too much anyhow, and with out it adrenaline comes really slow (vs single target).
If they are making even more ways to utilize adrenaline they cannot make gaining it so dependent on one specific trait.

^^^

most roaming builds got no access to swiftness unless you want to use SoR for that which is a big waste.

Mesmer getting +33% speed (swiftness) passive on one of their skills (Signet of inspiration).

Per ANET description it should be baseline.

These would be too strong baseline. There’s nothing wrong with strong incentive for a line, and they aren’t mandatory by any means (yes, I play warrior frequently enough these days). Deceptive Evasion (I don’t play Mesmer) is arguably far more mandatory for certain builds than the luxury of a fast swap.

Making everything that sounds great baseline is a slippery slope. Warrior seems like it’s in a good place after the traits.

The only thing I think should be baseline is the adren gain of Cleansing Ire because pvp adren gain in pvp without it is rough and it’s often a staple to rage systems. The rest are just luxuries people love.

I agree with the adrenaline on hit being baseline and adjusting traits so that Warrior isn’t filling it up too fast. It only makes sense that a class with no stealth, teleports, and whose archetype is “Come at me Bro” to be rewarded for being such.

Agreed on this. These are pretty class-defining traits.

Dahkeus.8243:

Agreed on this. These are pretty class-defining traits.

I’d be careful about using that wording as Elemental Attunement is consider by the elementalist to be a defining train and now it competes with Evasive Arcana trait for grandmaster.

It would not be too much of a jump in logic to have fast hand (which does change how you play some) to be place as a grandmaster. That being said the entirety of this is still a work in progress so until it is released we will have to see how the development goes and send input in as need.

Too many additions to baseline reeks of power creep and what kind of balance reductions will have to be done to all for that kind of functionality.

Cleansing ire is extremely strong. having the condition removal aspect baseline would be too strong. Having the adrenaline on hit be baseline would make any other adrenaline gaining trait/skill useless in PvP. I already think the trait itself needs an internal cooldown as is since rapid attacks can instantly fill a bar.

There’s no doubting that most warrior builds use fast hands; however, making it baseline would be completely broken and not make any sense. Warriors weapon swapping uses the same mechanic as other proffessions. Making it faster ‘just cause’ wouldnt make sense.
A better solution would be to give warriors a baseline ability (f2?) to use some adrenaline for an early weapon swap, that way it would tie into the mechamics and playstle. Then change fast hands so that it makes this ability cost less adrenaline or lower its cooldown

Warrior sprint wouldnt make sense either baseline. As mentoned above, maybe if it were an actual mechanic and not a ‘just cause’ reason.

Also another thing to realize is a lot of times anets description of proffessions cannot be fully realized until you put some traits on them. Heck, their descriptions probably originated from them seeing the traits in the first place

FalconBeta.9185:

Having the adrenaline on hit be baseline would make any other adrenaline gaining trait/skill useless in PvP

They are useless anyhow, please tell which one of them do u currently use? axe extra gain? the passive 2lines everry 3sec? those triats suck big time and no one is using them for a reason. Sorry but bad argument.

FalconBeta.9185:

There’s no doubting that most warrior builds use fast hands; however, making it baseline would be completely broken and not make any sense. Warriors weapon swapping uses the same mechanic as other professions. Making it faster ‘just cause’ wouldn’t make sense.

Wrong again. every warrior build ever uses fast hand, otherwise just play a guard or ranger, it IS Class defining. I promise you still won’t see builds without it, so this just kitten our build diversity.

Eiland.1405:

FalconBeta.9185:

Having the adrenaline on hit be baseline would make any other adrenaline gaining trait/skill useless in PvP

They are useless anyhow, please tell which one of them do u currently use? axe extra gain? the passive 2lines everry 3sec? those triats suck big time and no one is using them for a reason. Sorry but bad argument.

FalconBeta.9185:

There’s no doubting that most warrior builds use fast hands; however, making it baseline would be completely broken and not make any sense. Warriors weapon swapping uses the same mechanic as other professions. Making it faster ‘just cause’ wouldn’t make sense.

Wrong again. every warrior build ever uses fast hand, otherwise just play a guard or ranger, it IS Class defining. I promise you still won’t see builds without it, so this just kitten our build diversity.

Just because Fast hands is a good trait does not make it “class defining”. Add a -5 second weapon swap to any other profession that can swap weapons and tell me it won’t become “defining”. Giving warrior a baseline buff on weapon swapping, a mechanic shared by most other professions in the game, simply because the trait is good is not a good enough reason.
How would you feel if all thieves received a permanent 3 initiative increase, or elementalist gaining boons on attunement swapping as baseline functions? Those are very build defining traits for those professions and I’m sure you wouldn’t be happy with those changes. Heck, Elementalist even got hit hard by now having to choose between Elemental attunement and evasive arcana, Two traits that the best elementalist builds currently use at the same time.
This is the exact reason why I suggested giving warrior an actual mechanic that plays around making weapon swaps faster. a Mechanic that uses warrior’s Class defining mechanic adrenaline. An idea that I got a while back when some other people suggested thieves being able to weapon swap early in exchange for Initiative (since none of their weapon skills have cooldowns), something like this, but using adrenaline, would work well with warrior. Giving warrior passive buffs (that don’t affect specific skills/weapons), like increased movement speed/weapon swapping without it being played around adrenaline is a ridiculous idea.

as for the adrenaline on hit. No, I don’t use any of those other traits. They’re completely useless and are outclasses by Cleansing Ire’s passive (which is why I said having adrenaline on hit would make them even more useless) .
Adrenaline on hit is almost good enough (maybe not in the new system) to be a trait by itself. If it were baseline, then any trait that granted extra adrenaline would forever be pointless in a PvP scenario.

Warriors only have a couple sources of sustainable defense and that’s Adrenal Health and the Healing signet, which is why so many warriors(the ones not getting blown up immediately) use it as a heal and will continue to do so even after the specializations patch and the xpac comes out.

Mending being a physical skill and possibly getting the cooldown reduced to 16secs is a good start to help it compete with HS but the fact remains that almost every warrior build has either Defense for AH or Discipline for fast hands and warriors sprint. Why not make some of these baseline, warrior probably has the least build diversity of any profession in the game and so far the proposed changes aren’t doing much to change that.

If Fast Hands and Adrenal Health are low enough on the totem pole to be minor traits than why not just make one or both of them baseline for the profession?

I agree fast hands should be baseline. Not adrenal health though. To much free heal for baseline

dszteina.8507:

I agree fast hands should be baseline. Not adrenal health though. To much free heal for baseline

Completely agree. It’s the same principle that minor traits should no longer be weaker, they should play the role for traits that are essential for that trait line, where choice is redundant or neutralizes the purpose of the trait line. So ppl complaining about minors being too powerful, cuz they’re minors, is just stupid, they should be the strong ones imo.
One step further, fast hands which is essential for WARRIORS should be made baseline, or they make the choice redundant as well, everyone will go discipline. if fast hands is made baseline, there will be far more build diversity (in pvp/wvw mainly). 6 6 6 0 0 ?.
So yeah, fast hands should be made baseline, whilst adrenal health remains, actually in my opinion an trait choice, maybe buffed. Because it’s not essential for that role ( with defense ).

Edit:
The same way, grandmaster traits should not necessarily be stronger than adepts, because u will anyways get 3 trait choices now. They should rather be structured well so you can make interesting builds that synergizes well. ( With this new trait system )

Rather have Fast Hands as baseline rather than Adrenal Health at this point

FalconBeta.9185:

Just because Fast hands is a good trait does not make it “class defining”.

If “Fast hands” not class defining then i don’t know what trait is.

It needs to be Baseline or Discipline would be a stable trait line in every build.

Even so people would still pick Discipline for traits like Warrior Sprint, Versatile Rage and Burst Mastery.

FalconBeta.9185:

Eiland.1405:

FalconBeta.9185:

Having the adrenaline on hit be baseline would make any other adrenaline gaining trait/skill useless in PvP

They are useless anyhow, please tell which one of them do u currently use? axe extra gain? the passive 2lines everry 3sec? those triats suck big time and no one is using them for a reason. Sorry but bad argument.

FalconBeta.9185:

There’s no doubting that most warrior builds use fast hands; however, making it baseline would be completely broken and not make any sense. Warriors weapon swapping uses the same mechanic as other professions. Making it faster ‘just cause’ wouldn’t make sense.

Wrong again. every warrior build ever uses fast hand, otherwise just play a guard or ranger, it IS Class defining. I promise you still won’t see builds without it, so this just kitten our build diversity.

Just because Fast hands is a good trait does not make it “class defining”. Add a -5 second weapon swap to any other profession that can swap weapons and tell me it won’t become “defining”. Giving warrior a baseline buff on weapon swapping, a mechanic shared by most other professions in the game, simply because the trait is good is not a good enough reason.
How would you feel if all thieves received a permanent 3 initiative increase, or elementalist gaining boons on attunement swapping as baseline functions? Those are very build defining traits for those professions and I’m sure you wouldn’t be happy with those changes. Heck, Elementalist even got hit hard by now having to choose between Elemental attunement and evasive arcana, Two traits that the best elementalist builds currently use at the same time.
This is the exact reason why I suggested giving warrior an actual mechanic that plays around making weapon swaps faster. a Mechanic that uses warrior’s Class defining mechanic adrenaline. An idea that I got a while back when some other people suggested thieves being able to weapon swap early in exchange for Initiative (since none of their weapon skills have cooldowns), something like this, but using adrenaline, would work well with warrior. Giving warrior passive buffs (that don’t affect specific skills/weapons), like increased movement speed/weapon swapping without it being played around adrenaline is a ridiculous idea.

as for the adrenaline on hit. No, I don’t use any of those other traits. They’re completely useless and are outclasses by Cleansing Ire’s passive (which is why I said having adrenaline on hit would make them even more useless) .
Adrenaline on hit is almost good enough (maybe not in the new system) to be a trait by itself. If it were baseline, then any trait that granted extra adrenaline would forever be pointless in a PvP scenario.

The idea is that making fast hands baseline, is adding 1 more minor, because every warr build (that does not suck and is not pve) will run discipline for fast hands, so making it baseline, will make more build diversity. Sure, you can argue that “1 more trait” (btw it’s not supposed to be worse cuz it’s minor, it just means no option – now with this system) can be worked around, and it’s not this little factor that makes warrior “broken” and blablalba, it can be worked around, IF THAT WOULD BE THE CASE ( which it probably won’t ). That’s why it’s called balancing.

Just my opinion, but sorry if u disagree, but I don’t see how this is not how it should be.

Simply because it’s too kitten strong to have baseline. x.x It already essentially allows warrior to double up on sigils, PLUS the added flexibility benefit. Its frankly too strong to even be a minor, let alone just making it baseline… Who WOULDN’T want that to be baseline? I know I’d love it on my Necromancer…

Really though, you’re lucky they didn’t bump it to a GM like they did with Evasive Arcana/Terror and other “build defining” traits…

+ 1 to this post.

oh my.

The Chronomancer (mesmer specialization) is getting a minor trait called:
Time Marches On – You move 25% faster. The duration of incoming movement-impairing conditions is reduced by 25%. (Cripple. Chilled, Immobilize).

^^^
(Warrior Sprint + weaker version of Dogged March) in one trait, A MINOR TRAIT

oh hell nah!! (black ghetto voice)

Mesmers have gotten Illusionary Persona as baseline (spec defining trait).
They are also getting a passive speed increase as a minor trait (Time Marches On) with no restrictions and with codition duration reduction as cherry on top. This alone massively buffs them directly and indirectly (rune choice and whatnot).
They’ve buffed thives Shadow Rejuvenation (ridiculous) and gave them damage redution in stealth (even more ridiculous).
They moved a spec defining trait such as Panic Strike to master tier and moved another spec defining such as Executioneer from Critical Strikes to Deadly Arts, so now they can use both traits together in a single trait line.
YET they moved Necromancer’s Terror (a spec defining trait again) from Master to GM.
Or same case with Elemental Attunement.

They are full of contraditions.
Nothing of what they say can be taken at face value.

Personally, I have mixed feelings about Fast hands. It’s the trait that makes me play Warrior, I absolutely cannot concieve the profession without this trait. I cannot play other professions for long perdiods becouse of their weapon swaps of 10s due to this trait alone (with the exception of thief, as you tend to camp your main weapon set for longer due to initiative). So in my case, whenever I play Warrior I’ll just have only 2 specializations to choose from, that’s not justification enough to make it baseline though (Or yes? I donno). I don’t really know what to think about this one, unless you have a traited Warhorn, the Discipline line would still be taken due to Warrior’s Sprint.

On the other hand, the: ‘gain adrenaline on hit’ component from Cleansing Ire should be made baseline, definetly. Also, the adrenaline depletion should have a 10 or 5s delay.

Its time to make REAL suggestions.

for all those saying No for Baseline Warrior’s Sprint & Fast Hands or even Cleansing Ire you may now truly reconsider what you have stated.

Khenzy.9348:

Mesmers have gotten Illusionary Persona as baseline (spec defining trait).
They are also getting a passive speed increase as a minor trait (Time Marches On) with no restrictions and with codition duration reduction as cherry on top. This alone massively buffs them directly and indirectly (rune choice and whatnot).
They’ve buffed thives Shadow Rejuvenation (ridiculous) and gave them damage redution in stealth (even more ridiculous).
They moved a spec defining trait such as Panic Strike to master tier and moved another spec defining such as Executioneer from Critical Strikes to Deadly Arts, so now they can use both traits together in a single trait line.
YET they moved Necromancer’s Terror (a spec defining trait again) from Master to GM.
Or same case with Elemental Attunement.

They are full of contraditions.
Nothing of what they say can be taken at face value.

Personally, I have mixed feelings about Fast hands. It’s the trait that makes me play Warrior, I absolutely cannot concieve the profession without this trait. I cannot play other professions for long perdiods becouse of their weapon swaps of 10s due to this trait alone (with the exception of thief, as you tend to camp your main weapon set for longer due to initiative). So in my case, whenever I play Warrior I’ll just have only 2 specializations to choose from, that’s not justification enough to make it baseline though (Or yes? I donno). I don’t really know what to think about this one, unless you have a traited Warhorn, the Discipline line would still be taken due to Warrior’s Sprint.

On the other hand, the: ‘gain adrenaline on hit’ component from Cleansing Ire should be made baseline, definetly. Also, the adrenaline depletion should have a 10 or 5s delay.

While I am heavily against some of the buffs to the Shadow Arts trait line for thieves, I don’t believe the changes to executioner and panic strike will be as strong as you think. In terms of sPvP, the thief needs a little something to make it more viable as a 1v1 DPS. Right now it simply isn’t. Rejuv is buffed, but stealth builds for the most part are nerfed in terms of initiative costs due to the outright removal of the Infusion of Shadow trait.

The buffs to Shadow Arts through Resilience is uncalled for, and frankly, I think removing this trait and just buffing thief base health, or creating an alternative of it in the acrobatics line for the reduction while revealed would be more appropriate for the class as a whole, and give the new acrobatics line a reason to be used.

For the warrior, I’m not sure if fast hands should be made baseline. We’ve already had to see some swap sigils get nerfed because the interaction was too strong. Allowing something very potent as a baseline ability might prove to be a bit too strong, especially with the incoming changes to DPS builds for the warrior.

I play a warrior almost exclusively now in sPvP due to how strong it is, but I do not run fast hands. I run warrior’s sprint, and am anticipating the incoming buffs to it. That said, I don’t think making it baseline will help, either. Otherwise warriors after this rework would have very little reason to use the Discipline line aside from hammer builds, making the depth of choice dumbed down and builds overly-similar despite what the the reworks are going to be bringing themselves.

I agree about fast hands being baseline, but I am not sure about the warrior’s sprint being baseline.

DeceiverX.8361:

While I am heavily against some of the buffs to the Shadow Arts trait line for thieves, I don’t believe the changes to executioner and panic strike will be as strong as you think. In terms of sPvP, the thief needs a little something to make it more viable as a 1v1 DPS. Right now it simply isn’t. Rejuv is buffed, but stealth builds for the most part are nerfed in terms of initiative costs due to the outright removal of the Infusion of Shadow trait.

The buffs to Shadow Arts through Resilience is uncalled for, and frankly, I think removing this trait and just buffing thief base health, or creating an alternative of it in the acrobatics line for the reduction while revealed would be more appropriate for the class as a whole, and give the new acrobatics line a reason to be used.

For the warrior, I’m not sure if fast hands should be made baseline. We’ve already had to see some swap sigils get nerfed because the interaction was too strong. Allowing something very potent as a baseline ability might prove to be a bit too strong, especially with the incoming changes to DPS builds for the warrior.

I play a warrior almost exclusively now in sPvP due to how strong it is, but I do not run fast hands. I run warrior’s sprint, and am anticipating the incoming buffs to it. That said, I don’t think making it baseline will help, either. Otherwise warriors after this rework would have very little reason to use the Discipline line aside from hammer builds, making the depth of choice dumbed down and builds overly-similar despite what the the reworks are going to be bringing themselves.

Regarding thieves and Executioner. I’m not saying Panic Strike plus Executioner is a combo that’s too strong (the new Improvisation may be even stronger), it’s that they just neutered the Critical Strikes specialization, there’s barely any reason to take it over Deadly Arts. Honestly, I was just pointing out how Anet contradict themselves. Anyways, I’m not against buffing thieves in general, I’m against any kind of buff to stealth in particular, as minuscule as it may be. It’s already the strongest reposition, de-target and survivavility tool in the game, I despise how powerful, cheap and lame it was made in this game. It needs more counters besides some niche skills applying revealed. Something like an exahustion mechanic: the longer you stay in stealth the longer you’ll be revealed afterwards, I donno. Also, if your attack from stealth is blinded, blocked, evaded, etc, you get revealed, period.

As for Warrior, that’s why I’m on the fence on this one. It’s too much all or nothing, you take it for Warrior’s Sprint and/or Fast hands or you don’t take it at all, a middle ground just as with other trait lines would be great. But after seeing how mandatory Chronomancer is going to be in the case of Mesmers, I don’t know what to think anymore.

Juba.8406:

oh my.

The Chronomancer (mesmer specialization) is getting a minor trait called:
Time Marches On – You move 25% faster. The duration of incoming movement-impairing conditions is reduced by 25%. (Cripple. Chilled, Immobilize).

^^^
(Warrior Sprint + weaker version of Dogged March) in one trait, A MINOR TRAIT

Not trying to defend mesmer or anything. But because it’s minor, doesn’t mean it should be weaker, it just indicates something that is not choice, where u don’t get to pick whether to have it or not, something perhaps defining to that trait line, it’s like 1 smaller step from making something baseline.

This is just my opinion, given the new system, since u will get everything in a line anyways, no reason for them to be “weaker”

They should make fast hands and cleansing ire compete for the same grandmaster slot because they are very core to warrior and need to be a choice.

(Yes I am salty about the ea fiasco with ele)

ArthurDent.9538:

They should make fast hands and cleansing ire compete for the same grandmaster slot because they are very core to warrior and need to be a choice.

(Yes I am salty about the ea fiasco with ele)

Disagree, fast hand is class defining not build defining.
you can not find a working build in all aspect of the game without fast hand for warrior.
fast hand should be based line, discipline line is too good to give up even without fast hand

Elemental attunement is build defining, it’s useless outside of PvP.

Fast hand should be base line, warrior sprint should not, cleansing ire should not

the only thing i like about fast hand being a trait is so i can differentiate good and completely no idea warriors.

nicknamenick.2437:

ArthurDent.9538:

They should make fast hands and cleansing ire compete for the same grandmaster slot because they are very core to warrior and need to be a choice.

(Yes I am salty about the ea fiasco with ele)

Yes they should remove stealth from skills and put stealth into 1 trait
Next thing is remove all evade and put that into 1 trait also.

Now place both traits into same GM slot for thiefs because they are very core to thiefs and need to be a choice.

And lets do this for all classes!

---

I hope your where trolling, if not then this post is kitten serious also :-)

Yay, balance at last. Finally everyone will be on par with Necro!

Maybe they should delete fast hands… That’d fix a lot of issues. Compensate elsewhere. Fast hands is literally one of the most OP traits in the entire game. Going as far to ask it as baseline is super selfish. If it’s because of “diversity” then just remove it. (I play warrior pretty frequently, you can’t deny the sheer power this trait has, which is why it’s even being asked as baseline.)

Power creep is already super real, there’s no need for every warrior in the game to have a 5 sec swap. Unless they reduced all swaps to 5, or maybe 8 as a happy medium.

If they’re going to power creep anyways, they may as well just do it. Warrior Sprint shouldn’t be baseline though, it should probably, as one guy said, affect both range and melee weapons.

Like honestly, it wouldn’t hurt for a Strength Arms Elite spec to have a 5 second weapon swap I guess considering Guard and Mesmer elite spec is looking kittened crazy already.

Fast Hands I can agree with. But no on Warrior Sprint, this should not be baseline.

ronpierce.2760:

Maybe they should delete fast hands… That’d fix a lot of issues. Compensate elsewhere. Fast hands is literally one of the most OP traits in the entire game. Going as far to ask it as baseline is super selfish. If it’s because of “diversity” then just remove it. (I play warrior pretty frequently, you can’t deny the sheer power this trait has, which is why it’s even being asked as baseline.)

Power creep is already super real, there’s no need for every warrior in the game to have a 5 sec swap. Unless they reduced all swaps to 5, or maybe 8 as a happy medium.

tbh i think they should just remove stealth, boon rip, condition transfer, teleportation, insta cast to be fair and compensate in other ways.

the powercreep is already super real, there’s no need for classes to have unbalanced stuff like these

#fasthandsbestwarriortrait

People trait into defense for CI, not adrenal health. Adrenal health, while being pretty good, is not so good that you will not consider playing a build because it doesn’t have adrenal health.

However, you’re not gonna consider a build without CI, the adrenaline generation is just too important, and the condition cleansing too good.
They should at least make the adrenaline generation baseline. It would open up build diversity (Because I could imagine using other means of condition cleansing, or even playing without it), and it would also make the most sense (adrenaline also comes from being in danger).

As for fast hands, it’d be good to have it baseline too since I can’t imagine playing a PvP build without it.

I’d love to have CI and fast hands as baseline. Well, maybe not the entire cleansing Ire, but at least the adrenaline generation part.
GW2 is the only MMO i’ve played where warriors doesn’t build adrenaline/rage while getting hit, and it doesn’t make sense to me.

indeed, i can totally see people dropping cleansing ire after having brawler’s recovery master trait if they make the adrenaline gaining part a base line instead of being with cleansing ire.

lighter.2708:

ronpierce.2760:

Maybe they should delete fast hands… That’d fix a lot of issues. Compensate elsewhere. Fast hands is literally one of the most OP traits in the entire game. Going as far to ask it as baseline is super selfish. If it’s because of “diversity” then just remove it. (I play warrior pretty frequently, you can’t deny the sheer power this trait has, which is why it’s even being asked as baseline.)

Power creep is already super real, there’s no need for every warrior in the game to have a 5 sec swap. Unless they reduced all swaps to 5, or maybe 8 as a happy medium.

tbh i think they should just remove stealth, boon rip, condition transfer, teleportation, insta cast to be fair and compensate in other ways.

the powercreep is already super real, there’s no need for classes to have unbalanced stuff like these

While I could agree with that, its too late for that. (I disagree with boon rip. It has its place, 2 classes have too much of it). The rest, yeah, but that’s like… 90% of Thief’s design so… they’d have to basically scrap the class. Not going to happen. Thief will always be stupid and poorly designed and thieves will always defend it and cry if it changes, so we have to work in the realm of reality.

I’ll make this very simple …

Currently, before any specialization changes, Warrior is a huge part of all three metas (sPvP, WvW, and PvE). Warrior has been a big part of all three metas since release.

Currently, before any specialization changes, Mesmer, Ranger, and Necro have not been in these metas. Ranger not at all. Mesmer occassionally brought in for some niche utility, and Necro only wanted for AOE in WvW … but GWEN is just as happy being GWE.

Why is this? Because Warrior is currently already in a good place. So are Guardian and Elementalist. What does this mean? Baseline Warrior is already solid while baseline Memser, Ranger, and Necromancer are not.

So what is the solution to that? Make some current traits for Mesmer, Ranger, Necro that are practical auto-selects for their builds, and make them baseline since without those traits the abilities they affect are all but useless.

Why? In an attempt to bring them up to the same state as the classes that continue to dominate the meta.

If this doesn’t make sense to you … here’s it very simple.

Ele Warrior and Guard are each at 9.
Engineer and Thief are each at 7.
Ranger, Mesmer, Necro are each at 5.
ArenaNet wants everyone at 10.
This means ArenaNet will +1 Ele, Warrior, and Guard while they will need to +5 Ranger, Mesmer, Necro and +3 Engineer and Thief.

Now stop looking at what other classes are getting and complaining about how you need more …

• Warriors don’t know anything about your new Elite Specialization yet
• Warriors don’t know anything about your new weapon yet
• Warriors don’t know anything about your new skills yet
• Warriors have always been a dominant class in all metas since release.

@nicknamenick:
Unable to dispute the points?

I don’t disagree with fast hands being baseline (it does feel like a near “must have” on my Warrior) … though it could feel like the same “must have” that Deceptive Evasion does for many Mesmer builds.

I disagree with the people saying that other classes are getting several things made baseline so warrior should too.

Fast Hands should 100% be baseline. As it is now if forces you into the traitline for any viable build killing build variety. I’d say 5s weapon swap should be consider a core ability and class differentiator for Warriors.

It’s not being made baseline because to do so would be absurd. Weapons swaps that are half the time of every other class? Using War runes would then get you a 4s weapon swap…

I don’t think they should be baseline.

I do think that warriors sprint could be minor trait though.

Sure it should be baseline. But did we really need another topic on this since there are other threads as well as in depth discussion on overall trait change threads?

Why do we keep getting these threads? No it should not be made baseline, and it will never be made baseline.

Even if it becomes baseline, Discipline is still by far the best trait line for Warrior. Adrenaline and might on weapon switch, Warrior’s Sprint, Destruction of the Empowered, Brawler’s Recovery, Burst Mastery, there’s too many good traits on this line to not pick it up.

So Fast Hands might as well stay in Discipline, because with or without it any sensible Warrior will still pick Discipline.