Guild Wars 2

While the new elite specialization coming soon looks very fun to play, I know many people worry it won’t find a place in the pvp or pve meta. In my opinion, this isn’t the result of the berserker specialization being weak, but rather a general lack of variability in warrior builds, particularly in spvp. I feel the main cause of this is the necessity of taking the Discipline trait line in order to get Fast Hands. Because so many warrior builds rely on the weapon swap cooldown reduction, not choosing is often not an option. Making the trait a baseline for the class would, in my opinion, greatly expand the number of viable and fun warrior builds, particularly in spvp. Of course, this would require some re balancing but nothing too extreme. Does anyone else feel the same?

You’re not alone. Most people in here seem to feel the same way, and many posts have been devoted to making the case for it.

Well I’m glad to hear that. Hopefully Anet will take notice

We have been asking for this for a very long time now. Not once has anyone from anet EVER dropped any light on the subject. Personally i would like to know if they would do it, and if not WHY.

What also makes me worried is that whenever we got changes we ask for in the past, they break or nerf something there was not even any issues with. If we do ever get baseline fasthands who knows what nerfs would come with it.

As a dedicated Fast Hands Warrior, I would love for the 5s weapon swap to be the Warrior-only standard. Other professions have a variety of F# buttons that they can use to change things up drastically, all we really have is the weapon swap. Would be nice to allow for a more versatile and dynamic combat experience across all weapon combinations.

Agreed – this should have happened already.

Brawl.5178:

If we do ever get baseline fasthands who knows what nerfs would come with it.

This.

I can understand why they are being hesitant, because it’s a really powerful minor trait. Arguably one of the strongest if you think about it. Making it baseline would mean that we also get nerfs in other areas to compensate. (Which I am fine with, just stating a fact.)

Kraljevo.2801:

I can understand why they are being hesitant, because it’s a really powerful minor trait. Arguably one of the strongest if you think about it. Making it baseline would mean that we also get nerfs in other areas to compensate. (Which I am fine with, just stating a fact.)

What’s the difference in power between a waarior that takes the trait (basically, all of them) and a warrior who’s had it baselined?

The answer is the trait that goes in the spot where FH used to be, and then whatever extra power they can squeeze out through new combinations. It isn’t the power of FH itself.

A baselined FH doesn’t necessarily have to come at a cost. If it results in OP builds, those builds can be adjusted directly without class-wide nerfs.

Just out of curiosity, what would replace fast hands as a minor trait?

Brawl.5178:

Just out of curiosity, what would replace fast hands as a minor trait?

Ridiculous hands. Swapping also gives 5 seconds of quickness.

Brawl.5178:

Just out of curiosity, what would replace fast hands as a minor trait?

Fast Legs

It’s the Discipline line, so anything related to weapon swap (e.g. gaining 10 endurance on weapon swap).

Kraljevo.2801:

Brawl.5178:

If we do ever get baseline fasthands who knows what nerfs would come with it.

This.

I can understand why they are being hesitant, because it’s a really powerful minor trait. Arguably one of the strongest if you think about it. Making it baseline would mean that we also get nerfs in other areas to compensate. (Which I am fine with, just stating a fact.)

I believe it would be a good thing for everyone. Devs wouldn’t have the near impossible task of trying to balance warrior so that non-FH builds are viable without FH builds being OP and we would get more build diversity.

Either they remove it completely and rebalance warrior without it or make it baseline and balance for it.

Elegie.3620:

Brawl.5178:

Just out of curiosity, what would replace fast hands as a minor trait?

Fast Legs

It’s the Discipline line, so anything related to weapon swap (e.g. gaining 10 endurance on weapon swap).

This is a GREAT IDEA! +1!!

Could just split the might on swap from the burst CD reduction on the last minor. We don’t need to get anything more in the event FH is moved off the bar.

The whole point is to increase build diversity potential, not power creep.

It wouldn’t be a power creep at all, 10 endurance on weapon swap fits with the rest of the minors in the trait line and would prove quite useful and rewarding to player actively engaging in the combat.

I mean it could even be like 3 seconds of fury or something.

Brawl.5178:

It wouldn’t be a power creep at all, 10 endurance on weapon swap fits with the rest of the minors in the trait line and would prove quite useful and rewarding to player actively engaging in the combat.

I mean it could even be like 3 seconds of fury or something.

I don’t think you understand what power creep means. You’d be gaining power for nothing, that is a power creep. What Choppy said is perfectly fine. Discipline does not need buffs, other lines just need access to FH without it (at best, which can still be debatable). Base lining it and giving discipline more power is the very definition of a Power creep.

They won’t do it because then 100% of warriors will say, “Why doesn’t weapon swap sigils work with 5s weapon swap? Plz change to work for 5s weapon swap.”

OH i get it now lol. yeah choppy’s idea sounds fine lol.

Zefrost.3425:

They won’t do it because then 100% of warriors will say, “Why doesn’t weapon swap sigils work with 5s weapon swap? Plz change to work for 5s weapon swap.”

I wouldn’t. Therefore, your argument is false.

Seriously though, practically all warriors already run Fast Hands. So if anyone was going to make that argument, they’d have already made it.

Go ahead and scan through the many pages on this subforum and try to count how many times people have called for 5s sigils (you could probably do it on one hand). Then count how many more warrior mains have told those people it would be way too powerful.

Fast hands is important to warriors because without it, the warrior mechanism (finishing attacks) just doesn’t work well. We have some amazing talents that trigger off of finishers ( +20% damage, clear 3 conditions ), and the finishers themselves are very powerful. Being able to swap just for the finisher makes the warrior a ton better. Without fast hands, you basically can’t use addren fast enough.

In one sense, this is why Berserker is so poor. We already can swap weapons and land a finisher every ~7 seconds and trigger some amazing side-effects. Being able to trigger a lesser effect every 5 seconds without the supporting effects from talents is just… ‘meh’.

Even though Discipline would still be an extemely popular trait line without fast hands because it has many strong abilities… It is hard to make any build feel right or even work without fast hands.

If Fast Hands were baseline it would make Berserker builds more versatile rather than being Berserk + Discipline + ??? which 90% of builds will be. Also it would be nice to run trio combinations of Strength / Arms / Defense / Tactics to see what builds we come up with.

Warrior’s Sprint / Brawlers Recovery / Burst Mastery / Heightened Focus and several other traits will ensure Discipline remains a staple for warriors. Fast Hands is more of a core mechanic of the class and fits the thematic nature of a weaponmaster.

BTW ANET… If elite spec #2 is on the board, please consider WEAPONMASTER… Where F2 is a 3rd Weapon you can swap to :P You know you really like the sound of this (aside from whatever name you would call it) and have probably already discussed it, lol.

Cortano.5419:

Fast hands is important to warriors because without it, the warrior mechanism (finishing attacks) just doesn’t work well. We have some amazing talents that trigger off of finishers ( +20% damage, clear 3 conditions ), and the finishers themselves are very powerful. Being able to swap just for the finisher makes the warrior a ton better. Without fast hands, you basically can’t use addren fast enough.

In one sense, this is why Berserker is so poor. We already can swap weapons and land a finisher every ~7 seconds and trigger some amazing side-effects. Being able to trigger a lesser effect every 5 seconds without the supporting effects from talents is just… ‘meh’.

This, so hard. You hit the nail right on the head; weapon swap is critical to everything that the Warrior does. Being able to choose and use the right burst at the right time is absolutely necessary, in WvW and especially sPvP.

Warrior needs baseline Fast Hands, or we will forever be chained to Discipline.

While fast hands would be an amazing baseline feature, as soon as it happens people will think the warriors are overpowered. Similar to when we got the healing signet buff and baddies that were carried by their class could no longer kill warriors. It wasn’t because warriors had to much healing it was because skilled warriors got so good at surviving encounters with terrible sustain options. With baseline fast hands, skilled warriors will no longer be shackled to discipline and a whole new animal will emerge. Baddies won’t like that.

They could add in the F1 description:

After using burst skills succesfully, for the next (2 or 3 seconds) the next swap will subsequent swap CD by 5 secs.

In this way fast hand would be still useful but will force more activity from the player, and probably there would not nerf needed.

Sorry if it’s not well written, I am not native eng.