Guild Wars 2

I’ve played Warrior since launch and I have over 1k hours with the class, so I have experienced most of the encounters possible in this game. I do not consider myself a pro pvper or a master Warrior, but I have to agree with people that Warrior is underwhelming in PvP, and it is not a l2 kitten ue.

First of all, this topic is only about our sustain. I think our condition removal options are fine for right now, and sticking to a target does require more skill as a Warrior, so that is a bit of a l2 kitten ue (even though most other classes don’t suffer from it).

I disagree with people saying we need more access to defensive boons, because that would turn us into Guardians. Warriors are an offensive class, and our defense/sustain should come through offense.

So I suggest that our abilities be more focused towards “down but not out”. Sort of the opposite of a Thief. A Thief is strongest at the start of the fight, when his initiative is full and his burst is at full potential. If a Thief misses his initial burst, he is in a weaker state and has to back off. I suggest Warriors start the fight in a weaker state and become stronger as our hp gets lower and the fight drags on. It fits with the Adrenaline class mechanic gives us a unique way to sustain.

There is one example already in-game that embodies the Warrior class, in my opinion. That example is the downed skill, Vengeance. In my experience, when a Warrior goes down on the battlefield, everyone stops to go secure that kill, because if they wait long too long, that Warrior comes back as a serious threat. I expected Warriors to be the “Oh kitten! Kill it quick!” class, not the “Lol look a Warrior, kill it.” class.

Some of the abilities I’m leaning towards are more of those traits that activate when HP reaches a certain amount. Things like skills recharging, getting healed, damage increases, etc.

I made this up as I went along and it isn’t the most professional post. I don’t have the mental capacity to offer a full solution, but I feel that there are people on this forum who can take my idea way farther than I ever could.

Interesting concept I do prefer to have some more damage mitigation without resorting to boons cause like you said, we are not guardians. Maybe replacing the terrible traits in our tactics line with something like this.

I certainly think this is the way to go with Warrior. Even as it is now, I usually rush in quick with my warrior to get the bonuses from full bar of adrenaline (the health regen and more dmg). It could be better I think, but all in all thanks for voicing this out and hope it inspires some..ahem…devs to look into it

I do think the Warrior class would be more suited to a kind of Berserker (yea, I know…) class that gets stronger at lower levels of Health.

This would make the Warrior a much higher skilled class, since the best players would optimize to go risky until low hp and then unload ranged burst.

I would like to see more damage offloaded to burst skills since usually I see an actual lower DPS (not per-hit obviously) from Burst skills than just the #1. This is most pronounced on the Harpoon gun and Rifle, since their burst skills take woefully long to fire.

Gotta love how 30 points in Discipline gives you a MASSIVE… 3% increased burst damage… woo? (Don’t get me wrong, that line has some great traits.)

My biggest concerns for Warrior is simply a lack of options. I run pretty versatile builds but I’d never touch off-hand sword or shield. They just seem to have TERRIBLE skills.

I’m a fan of shouts since “Fear Me!” is a god-send in WvW, “Shake It Off!” is infinitely useful and “For Great Justice!”… well, it’s just too good to not take.

There’s a lot done right but that’s probably what makes me want more.

Traits:

Juggernaut’s Tenacity
Grandmaster Trait, Strength tree.
Healing received on skill activation, heals intensify the closer to death you are.
100%-70%: 10 + (1 * Level) + (0.02 * Healing Power)
70%-33%: 20 + (2 * Level) + (0.033 * Healing Power)
33%-0%: 30 + (3 * Level) + (0.045 * Healing Power)

Indomitable
Grandmaster, Defense Tree.
Convert a condition into a boon when you gain a bar of adrenaline.

Adrenal Sustain
Grandmaster, Arms Tree
Gain a small amount of health when you gain a strike of adrenaline.
Critical hits grant an extra strike of adrenaline.
(This trait would be merged with furious.)

Empowered Defenses
25: Tactics.
Stolen or removed boons are immediately reapplied and doubled at there current duration.

Enduring Adrenaline
15: Tactics
Gain a small amount of endurance (5-10 out of 100.) when you gain a strike of adrenaline.

Determined Revival
5: Tactics
Gain 25% damage reduction while reviving an ally.
Increases revive speed by 25%.

Thick Skin
5: Defense
Increases healing power for each condition you have, this bonus magnifies the closer you are to death.
100%-70%: 50 Healing power per unique condition.
70%-33%: 100 Healing power per unique condition.
33%-0%: 150 Healing power per unique condition.

Adrenal Health
15: Defense
Regenerate health based on adrenaline level.
1 bar: heals 80 + (0.8 * Healing Power) per second
2 bar: heals 100 + (0.1 * Healing Power) per second
3 bar: heals 120 + (0.12 * Healing Power) per second

I think healing signet needs to be as affective as level 3 adrenal healing + current healing signet. Adrenal healing needs to be removed. In place of adrenal healing it should be adrenal cleanse, a condi removal for each level of adrenaline gained.

I think they could replace Last Stand in the Defense line with Stance Mastery: Gain health every second while in a Stance (say ~250 health with a .1 scale with healing power).

I agree for once Daecollo about gaining health when you gain a strike of Adrenaline. I don’t think it would require a trait and could be about 100. Perhaps Discipline could increase this effect by 1-2% per point spent.

And lastly, as far as condition removal goes, I think Shake it Off could remove 2 conditions, or have a shorter cool down. And Mending should heal more for each condition removed

You get my vote aswell, i dont want to be a guardian.

I want Warriors survability to come from something that would fit a warrior. For example more dodges (3rd ability on greatsword for example, you evade any attacks while you are doing it is a great example) and other ways that just feel more due to the warriors strenght/skill than magical enchantments. Im not sure how as im no game dev myself but i hope Anet does and will go along that path!

One might be able to improve the class mechanic of Adrenaline with F abilities that are locked by your current HP. Something like, full HP and you have F1, if you drop to 50% HP and stay at or below that point for 5 seconds, F2 becomes available. If you accumulate 15 sec of being below 50% over the course of 60 sec (that is, an internal ticker counts up seconds that you’re 50% or lower but the ticker slowly deteriorates) then F3 becomes available and if you accumulate 5sec of being below 25% over a 30sec period, F4 becomes available.

…no idea what those F abilities would do but the idea behind it would be ‘I have to survive just a couple seconds! if I can make it…’

Fundamentally, that change would also give Vitality a good utility purpose because the more HP you have, the easier it is to stick around -50% HP.

Desperate Power fits in your idea: You do 20% extra damage under 25% health.
It should be changed to 50% imo (health, not damage)
Defy Pain too : Activates Endure Pain at 25% health.

I revised my sheet a little, added thick skin/adrenal health ideas.

Thick Skin adds healing power, a lot of it. However it only helps you against conditions. Healing Power isn’t that OP but it helps both physical/condition damage. That is why it increases HP and not Toughness.

I realize if you have 11 conditions you could get to 1650 healing power from the trait, however we are not elementalists/guardians, we don’t really have that many healing spells to really use it, also if we have 11 unique conditions on us with that low health we are probably dead a second after. Its not as good as it looks on paper.

I wish the changes to the Warriors traits would evolve into more unique and class defining reactionary effects. Of course the duration and cool downs of these effects would need to be greatly tested for balance to exsist. For example:

-A trait the allows you to throw an Axe that cripples your target when your target removes an exsisting cripple. With the right cooldown this would be a innovative ability and could be done instantly and automatically regardless of the weapon. (On another note: Since the Warrior is more of a weapon expert it would make perfect since to carry a spare throwing axe on ones belt.)

-A trait that allows warriors to essentially charge up damage when their attacks are mitigated. By this I mean, when their attack strikes a target who Blinds/ Blocks/Distorts or becomes invulnerable. Each attack made on the target that is prevented could boost the Warriors next attack until the next damaging source from the Warrior strikes the target. This would reward perseverance against the many forms of damage mitigation.

-Traits that grants situational effects when certain conditions are met. By this I mean:
•"When suffering from poison your attacks have a chance to inflict poison."
•"While you are immobilized you gain 6 seconds of swiftnesss"
•"When inflicted with the Burning condition you have a chance to spread it to opponents within melee range"
•"Landing a killing blow on a Pet,Turret, Minion or Clone will give you 2 seconds of Quickness"
•"Chance to ignore a Knockback/Knockdown effects but instead take double damage from it"

-A trait that allows you to “Convert each exsisting condition into a stack of Vulnerability after 5 different conditions have been placed on you.” (Implying its wearing through your armor before your skin.)

-A trait that “When Stunned or Dazed your next dodge roll will daze targets struck for 2 seconds.”

My overall point here is that I (my opinion) would love to see the Warrior become more of a unique profession. I feel simply giving them traits or buffs that only increase damage or reduce damage by percentages makes for a less innovative experience. But that’s just my view on this particular profession.

I really like most of these ideas. I haven’t seen many changes that would make Warriors super OP, and I really like that one about the F1-F4 skills opening up as HP gets lower. Maybe ANet will actually see some of these ideas and consider them.

I really like the idea about spreading flames to melee targets when you are set on fire. It makes sense, if I am burning I should be setting anything I touch on fire. Or a trait that gives you a chance to insta-kill a pet/clone/summon.

Donut.6914:

I really like most of these ideas. I haven’t seen many changes that would make Warriors super OP, and I really like that one about the F1-F4 skills opening up as HP gets lower. Maybe ANet will actually see some of these ideas and consider them.

Heh glad someone liked the idea. It was really just a random though I had while reading your OP. As I agree with your stance about not making Warriors into Guardians, it just got my head pondering as I did my laundry.

Julie Yann.5379:

I really like the idea about spreading flames to melee targets when you are set on fire. It makes sense, if I am burning I should be setting anything I touch on fire. Or a trait that gives you a chance to insta-kill a pet/clone/summon.

You should run with that idea then :P

Actually, I had an idea previously about traits that update burst skills and one upgrade mechanic I thought would be neat and Warrior-like was ‘Condition Revenge’. Basically, if you bleed, burn or are poisoned or what have you, you got this burst skill that will copy it to your target. No cleanse or anything, but straight up “8sec of burn/10stacks of bleed on me? okay, here ya go!” type skill. And hey, that’d be another means of building a Condi warrior!

Donut.6914:

There is one example already in-game that embodies the Warrior class, in my opinion. That example is the downed skill, Vengeance. In my experience, when a Warrior goes down on the battlefield, everyone stops to go secure that kill, because if they wait long too long, that Warrior comes back as a serious threat. I expected Warriors to be the “Oh kitten! Kill it quick!” class, not the “Lol look a Warrior, kill it.” class.

I really feel that because the class was advertised as being easy lots of players just expect everything to be handed to them. Oh we want to deal 15k per hit and be able to stay alive the entire combat, simply ridiculous.

A warrior is not a guardian and I completely agree with your points, it doesn’t need more defensive boons, they don’t fit the profession’s theme. Vengeance was actually the reason I rolled a warrior, it really does represent the tenacity and determination of the profession. And it rocks, specially in pvp when u get the chance to destroy the person that downed you at the price of your life, but who cares, as Valeria in Conan the barbarian says: “do you want to live forever?”

But I do agree that warriors need more depth in their gameplay.
My suggestion is a new defensive F2 skill that is not linked to a weapon set:

F2 -> berzerker cleansing
makes the warrior immune to conditions for 4 seconds (and cleans the ones already on you)
But there’s a catch, it costs 3 adrenaline bars + a full energy bar + 25% of your current life. So it’s best to use it when you’re close to death.

A lot of testing needs to be done to make sure it’s not under/over powered.

Donut.6914:

First of all, this topic is only about our sustain. I think our condition removal options are fine for right now, and sticking to a target does require more skill as a Warrior, so that is a bit of a l2p issue (even though most other classes don’t suffer from it).

I disagree with people saying we need more access to defensive boons, because that would turn us into Guardians. Warriors are an offensive class, and our defense/sustain should come through offense.

So I suggest that our abilities be more focused towards “down but not out”. Sort of the opposite of a Thief. A Thief is strongest at the start of the fight, when his initiative is full and his burst is at full potential. If a Thief misses his initial burst, he is in a weaker state and has to back off. I suggest Warriors start the fight in a weaker state and become stronger as our hp gets lower and the fight drags on. It fits with the Adrenaline class mechanic gives us a unique way to sustain.

There is one example already in-game that embodies the Warrior class, in my opinion. That example is the downed skill, Vengeance. In my experience, when a Warrior goes down on the battlefield, everyone stops to go secure that kill, because if they wait long too long, that Warrior comes back as a serious threat. I expected Warriors to be the “Oh kitten! Kill it quick!” class, not the “Lol look a Warrior, kill it.” class.

Some of the abilities I’m leaning towards are more of those traits that activate when HP reaches a certain amount. Things like skills recharging, getting healed, damage increases, etc.

I made this up as I went along and it isn’t the most professional post. I don’t have the mental capacity to offer a full solution, but I feel that there are people on this forum who can take my idea way farther than I ever could.

• Currently Warrior lacks condition removal. Take an Elementalist and you’ll see that there is a huge difference. Too huge.
• Wrong. ArenaNet said, and I want that too, that they are aiming to make more than one viable build for each class. Currently this is still far from being true, but being forced to play offensive is not a solution. Warriors need more defensive options and Guardians need more offensive options. People from both classes noticed this flaw.

About the idea of “becoming stronger during the fight”, I like it!
A way to do this may be increase the number of Adrenaline points (currently 30, increase to 99, 33 per bar) and make them worth.
Example: Each adrenaline point will rise by 0,5% output damage and reduce incoming damage by 0,3%.
Adrenaline rises when:

• You get hit, depending on the damage (more damage received, more adrenaline gained).
• Increases by a small amount when hitting an enemy (depends on damage dealt).
• Constant passive gain that becomes faster when HP go down. Increasing HP (self-heal or getting healed) will decrease the passive gain.

Using healing skill will consume a large portion of adrenaline, like a full bar (33 points on 99). You can heal even without adrenaline but all healing skills will consume it, in different measures (Healing Signet will consume it passively by small amounts).

Each bar of adrenaline (now 33 points, more than current 3 bars together) will greatly improve effectiveness of burst skill, so you’ll have to decide to go for the F1 skill (which is going to be stronger than now) or keep the adrenaline to benefit from the passive damage amplification and damage mitigation.

What do you think?

lol

A warrior is not a guardian and I completely agree with your points, it doesn’t need more defensive boons, they don’t fit the profession’s theme.

Every class in the game has decent access to defensive boons except warriors it’s comments like these that really make me want to head butt my wall repeatedly. Is every class like a guardian then? /facepalm

btw vengeance is an abomination of a downed skill total garbage. If it is to stay as is it should be moved to the 2 position in the downed abilities bar.

Perhaps ArenaNet should look at moving the Warrior class mechanic back to something more closely resembling GW1’s Warrior.
In GW1, a lot of Warrior skills (which would be considered both weapon and utility skills) didn’t use cooldowns at all, but rather used Adrenaline.
Here’s the GW1 Wiki link describing how Adrenaline used to work.
Personally, I never understood why ArenaNet moved away from this mechanic, and I think the class suffered as a whole.

Old school Adrenaline had excellent risk/reward built in, as it built quicker the more you hit and the more you got hit. It encouraged the player to be on the frontline in the thick of things in order to keep pumping out the skills.

So I say, bring back the original Guild Wars Adrenaline mechanic.
Imagine if “Shake it off!” relied on Adrenaline instead of cooldowns.
The more you’re in the front line taking and dishing out damage, the more you’ll be removing conditions!
How Warrior is that?!

I wouldn’t mind if the warrior picked up a Grand Master trait in the defense tree.

Rework Defy Pain - At 50% health, take 25% less damage (not affected by conditions)
or
" " - At 25% health, take 50% less damage (all sources)

Which ever would be more balanced. I didn’t do any math on these.

warrior definitely need more power for the lack of survibility