Offensive vs Defensive Build/Gear

Offensive vs Defensive Build/Gear

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Posted by: cook.2631

cook.2631

I’m new to GW2 and am about to hit 80 on my first character. I’m wondering for PvE/Dungeons what would be best for a newbie – doing an offensive trait build and then getting Vitality/Toughness gear or defensive trait build with Power/Precision gear?

Since this is my first 80 funds are limited so I want to make sure I get the right things from the get go. I have a little over 80k karma right now and about 11 gold (I really didn’t buy gear leveling up and just used what dropped and saved every copper and karma point for 80.

1-60 I used the signet build w/15 points into Defensive to get Adrenal Health and I loved the self regen

60-70 I switched to a Shouts Heal build and it’s not bad. I read up that the signet build isn’t really viable at 80 so wanted to try something new prior to hitting 80

So I was thinking of a build that has 30 points into Tactics for the healing shouts and then 15 points into Defensive for Adrenal Health (which also gives +Healing that helps the healing shouts). Which then only leaves 25 points for some offensive talent that I’m thinking would go all into Arms and then full Berserker gear.

But I’m not sure if I would be better going the other route with a pure offensive tactic build and then wearing tankish type gear.

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Posted by: ChaK.3254

ChaK.3254

Just go with whatever pleases you. There is no such thing as “the right thing”.

Depends of you style of play.

I for one am playing a completly defensive char. toughness/vita/pow exo, 3 toughness jewels and 2 vita jewels. Axe/shield.

10/0/30/30/0

healing shout, toughness bonus with shield etc… It’s absolutly playable and I love that style of play, being helpful removing condition, rezing people, somehow tanking (yes 30k HP with lot of toughness you can tank some encounters easily compared to others).

Sure in solo play you’re not a beast of a DPS, but you can still use double axe.

In dungeons i’m certainly the last DPS, but one defensive warrior isn’t something to ignore, it’s very useful.

I used to play berserker double axe, but I like more being the guy that never dies (or rarely)

So yeah, basically go with what makes you have fun.

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Posted by: cook.2631

cook.2631

This is why I love this game – so many viable specs and lack of cookie cutter setups!

I like the GS/Longbow and I want to get a bit tanky as I don’t know these dungeons so need some margin for error until I get use to them. But at the same time I want to be able to put out some stable damage and I’m not sure what would be the best way to go about that – tanky build with offensive gear or offensive build with tanky gear.

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Posted by: kwatrich.3805

kwatrich.3805

I use Axe/Warhorn, using a shouts build.
20/5/15/30/0, using the the Axe Dmg increase traits in Power and the Shouts Heal/lower recharge in Vitality.

Using Knight’s gear you get power precision and toughness. You really don’t need Vitality gear as with 30 in Vitality and being a Warrior you HP should be over 20K.

I also us full Runes of the Soldier, so on top of shouts healing they also remove a condition.
6 – healing signet (for the regen)
7 – “For Great Justice”
8 – “On my mark”
9 – “Shake it off”
10 – Warbanner

I like this build, it keeps me alive. You may find something you like better but thats the beauty of GW2 there is no cookie cutter spec.

You will have people come on here and tell you that GS is the best and others will say A/A. Play around with all the weapons find what works for your play style and rock it out.

With a Shouts build you are helping support the whole party with heals, condition removal, boons, and vulnerabilities to mobs. As well as doing solid dmg.

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Posted by: bosky.3190

bosky.3190

I was in a similar position not that long ago, and I found buying a balanced armor/trinket set is the best approach at the start. Eventually once you get familiar with other builds and situations you can look at specializing.
If you just try to specialize you might regret going full Berserkers, but getting a couple pieces of that and a couple of Valkyrie or Knights will let you be more of a jack-of-all-trades. And it’s easy to swap pieces later (when funds allow) if it turns out you like doing dps or like being support.
I started with a balanced set and had leveled with a Greatsword. Then I went full Berserker’s so I could try the dps route, and now I’m slowly getting a defensive set too when I need to “tank” in a dungeon with a mace/shield.
Generally you want your traits to match your gear though. When I’m running axe for dps I go fully for crit and crit support traits, as compared to trying to pick up some Tactics or the like. Similarly going support means 30/30 in Defense and Tactics.

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Posted by: Spifnar.4712

Spifnar.4712

You’ll get the most bang for your gold from buying exotic knights jewelry and slotting them with ruby jewels (25/15/3%)

When thinking about armor, save your gold and karma. Run daily dungeons for tokens and buy armor with that. AC will get you rampagers (prec/power/condition), and CoF will get you berzerkers. Both work pretty well together with knights.

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Posted by: phantomFury.9168

phantomFury.9168

I’m new to GW2 and am about to hit 80 on my first character. I’m wondering for PvE/Dungeons what would be best for a newbie – doing an offensive trait build and then getting Vitality/Toughness gear or defensive trait build with Power/Precision gear?

Gear gives far more bonus to your stats than the traits will. So, generally speaking, an offensive trait build with Vitality/Toughness gear will end up more a defensive build and vice versa. There are two approaches:
1. Start as pure DPS which can force you to learn the ins/outs of a dungeons or area and you’ll eventually learn the skills necessary to survive as a pure DPS player.
2. Start with a defensive/tanky approach and phase in more DPS as you learn the content.
Pick whichever method suits you better.

So I was thinking of a build that has 30 points into Tactics for the healing shouts and then 15 points into Defensive for Adrenal Health (which also gives +Healing that helps the healing shouts). Which then only leaves 25 points for some offensive talent that I’m thinking would go all into Arms and then full Berserker gear.

But I’m not sure if I would be better going the other route with a pure offensive tactic build and then wearing tankish type gear.

So, personally, I don’t find Adrenal Health to be that awesome of a skill. To me, if someone is investing points into the Defense line, it starts to push the weapon selection towards Hammer/Mace. One of beauties of Mace/Hammer are the CC skills, your F1 adrenaline based skill being one of them. So, if you’re using your adrenaline for the burst skills, you aren’t getting the passive regeneration. In short, don’t tie yourself too strongly to Adrenal Health.

Going Mace/Hammer is by no means a requirement when spending points in Defense of course, but as you said, since you’re also considering 30 points in Tactics, this limits the available points to spend elsewhere. Greatsword does well with points in both Strength and Arms, which, for the best bang-for-buck, would normally mean 20 points in each line, which you won’t have if you spend 30 in Tactics and 15 in Defense.

An alternative approach, especially if you like the Shout build and will keep 30 in Tactics is use Runes that further boost your boon duration. Example: 2x Strength, 2x Speed, 2x Water. Strength gives 20% Might duration bonus, Speed gives 20% Swiftness duration and Water gives a general 15% boon duration. (Note: There are other sets of Runes which give the same bonuses on the first two Runes, that may be cheaper than these specific Runes.) What this does is get your total Might and Swiftness duration boon to 65%. Since you’re running a Shouts build, I assume you’ve taken the Shouts cooldown reduction trait. If you also spend 10 points in Discipline and take the signet cooldown trait, you get:

  • For Great Justice applying 3 stacks of Might with 41+ second duration, on a 20 second cooldown. So that’s 6 Stacks of Might up constantly.
  • Signet of Rage applies 5 stacks of Might and Swiftness with 49+ second duration, on a 48 second cooldown. So, another 5 stacks of Might and Swiftness up constantly.
  • Between FGJ and SoR, you also end up with permanent Fury.

If you then take the adept level Empowered trait in the Tactics line, it grants 2% damage bonus per boon, which means 6% constant damage bonus. For WvW and PvE, permanent Swiftness is just so incredibly spoiling. Dungeons it’s probably not as beneficial.

In the end, you’ve spent 40 points for a pretty much permanent bonus of 385 Power, 20% Critical Chance, Swiftness, and 6% damage bonus. Not too shabby. You have 30 points and 2 skill slots (not counting your heal) to customize to your situation, personal play style, general mood, and/or weapon choice.

This is basically the backbone of my Warrior builds. I have three basic sets of gear:

  • DPS: Full Berserker’s gear set, with a GS, Longbow, and several Axes (various Sigils)
  • Bleed: Full Rabid armor, Carrion trinkets (except back piece being rare Rabid)/jewels, Knight’s weapons with several Swords (various Sigils), and an Axe. (I use the Berserker’s Longbow as my secondary weapon). Great part of this particular build is Might helps both direct damage and condition damage, so the build still does respectable direct damage, with bleeds ranging from 100-125, maintaining at least 10 stacks.
  • Tank: Soldier’s armor, Knight’s Hammer and Mace, Berserker’s shield and Axe, Knight’s trinkets with Berserker’s Jewels (except back piece with is a Rare Soldier’s).

I find all three builds to be incredibly fun.

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Posted by: cook.2631

cook.2631

Phantom thanks a ton for your writeup. As for approaches I was leaning towards #2 (2. Start with a defensive/tanky approach and phase in more DPS as you learn the content.) as I don’t want to keep dying while learning the mechanics and chance getting a bad rep as a crappy player when the reality is I just haven’t done the dungeon (even if I mention this prior to the group).

As far as weapons go, feel free to call me vain but I can’t find a good hammer skin that I like. Thus far the only weapons that I like visually are Greatsword and Sword. I played around with S/S for a bit and while solo it was great I can see the downside if I’m grouping…also I did dig the S/Shield (love the shield bash).

I was reading a thread somewhere (sorry been doing a lot of googling and can’t remember where I saw this thread) regarding the Shout/Heal build in that the healing on the Shouts is so minimal with 0 Healing Power that it’s almost worthless. But part of the Pros of going down that trait line is the increase in Boon uptime so that you and your party are pretty much constantly buffed.

I guess so I don’t get totally blown away I’m looking for a tanky type setup with some bite.

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Posted by: phantomFury.9168

phantomFury.9168

Phantom thanks a ton for your writeup.

My pleasure. Theory crafting is one of my new hobbies.

As far as weapons go, feel free to call me vain but I can’t find a good hammer skin that I like. Thus far the only weapons that I like visually are Greatsword and Sword. I played around with S/S for a bit and while solo it was great I can see the downside if I’m grouping…also I did dig the S/Shield (love the shield bash).

I was reading a thread somewhere (sorry been doing a lot of googling and can’t remember where I saw this thread) regarding the Shout/Heal build in that the healing on the Shouts is so minimal with 0 Healing Power that it’s almost worthless. But part of the Pros of going down that trait line is the increase in Boon uptime so that you and your party are pretty much constantly buffed.

I guess so I don’t get totally blown away I’m looking for a tanky type setup with some bite.

I am a bit odd when it comes to my armor selection. I REALLY cannot stand the flashy over the top armor. Also, though it is a bit silly, my warrior is a human who comes from the nobility, so the flashy stuff didn’t seem to fit. I actually ended up going with a variation of Scale Armor which the look is available on very low level gear. My colors are generally gold, black, steel like colors. Well, it just so happened that the Ebonhawke cultural weapons fit my armor and color perfectly. The hammer skin is one of my favorite weapon skins, and the sword and greatsword are very simple and elegant looks. The one down side is the Ebonhawke shield, while interesting, makes my warrior, literally, look like a fairly when the shield is on his back. So, I ended up with a Vigil shield. I’ll try and post shots when I get home.

If you want a tanky build with decent damage output, could copy my tank build, with tweaks for your likes. Here’s a link to show my traits, and skills I take: http://goo.gl/g6qyN Don’t pay attention to the actual stats because this editor doesn’t have enough flexibility for the gear. I take:
- Soldier’s Armor (Power, Vitality/Toughness)
- Axe and Shield are Berserker’s (Power, Precision/Critical Damage)
- Hammer is Knight’s (Toughness, Power/Precision)
- Backpiece: Soldier’s (Rare) with Berserker’s Jewel
- Trinkets: Knight’s
- Jewels: Berserker’s

My base stats with Axe/Shield / Hammer are:
1940 / 1892 Power
1374 Precision (26% Crit Chance)
1880 / 1969 Toughness (3152 / 3180 Armor)
1479 Vitality (24,002 Health)

38% / 28% Critical Damage

With Sigil of Perception stacked, consumables (Omnoberry Pie, Maintenance Oil), SoR active (20% crit chance) and the Might stacked up (should be able to maintain upwards of 20 stacks):

2640 / 2592 Power
1865 / 1871 Precision (69% Critical Chance)

Toughness, Vitality, and Critical damage are unchanged.

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Posted by: phantomFury.9168

phantomFury.9168

Oh, and about Healing shouts. According to the wiki, base heal is 1192. That’s hardly worthless IMO. It does have a high return though on Healing Power, at 80% effectiveness (.8 health for every 1 point of healing power). So, my build would heal for 1452 on every shout.

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Posted by: cook.2631

cook.2631

Our armor tastes are exactly spot on. I have a variety of black/gray/steel/silver/gold/dark red dyes. I love the T1 Human Heavy shoulder piece because it’s so simplistic and will probably be pairing that with Vigil Pants and then not sure about the rest for visual looks.

I will check out the Ebonhawk Mace/Hammer tonight when I get home.

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Posted by: Laosduude.1690

Laosduude.1690

I personally use 20-0-20-30-0 with greatsword/rifle, I picked up banners because I like the regen for party and such and constant dmg boost from the precision+crit dmg banner. Full knights gear, but slowly I’ll think about getting the full set of soldier stats.

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Posted by: phantomFury.9168

phantomFury.9168

I personally use 20-0-20-30-0 with greatsword/rifle, I picked up banners because I like the regen for party and such and constant dmg boost from the precision+crit dmg banner. Full knights gear, but slowly I’ll think about getting the full set of soldier stats.

Just to point out… if you move away from Knight’s towards Soldier’s, you’ll be losing a lot of precision, but obviously picking up vitality and a little bit of power. My very quick calculations would indicate you’d probably see a noticeable decline in damage output since your crit chance would take such a big hit. You may already have considered that, but figured I’d mention it.

@cook… Some screenshots of my armor and some of the Ebonhawke (or Ebon Vanguard more accurately) weapons.

Attachments:

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Posted by: Rayya.2591

Rayya.2591

Ignore the signet hatters
Signet of healing might be best in slot heal you can get. 210 + hp regen /second and low CD
Signet of stamina is very good situational, mostly on WvW or in dungeons where you need condition removal.
i Use on warrior an 0/20/30/0/20 , and i find it decent
Pro’s:
short cooldowns on gs skills
might on crit with gs
movement skills break imobilize ( whirlwind, rush)
9 % extra critical chance
an free endure pain at 25% hp , an free stability when you get knocked back .. etc.

http://imgur.com/a/fKgjD
no.1 WvW kills

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Posted by: Laosduude.1690

Laosduude.1690

Yeah, I used to have soldier set from AC, might get another set later to play with.

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Posted by: Seren.6850

Seren.6850

10 points in arms and discipline gets you 12% extra dmg and 9% extra crit at full adrenaline, even though I have fairly tanky gear and shout heals those 2 traits let you still hit like a truck with a greatsword since you never use the burst skill

SoS original -“They mostly come out at night … mostly”
[FIRE] Serene Snow, Warrior

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Posted by: Psybunny.8906

Psybunny.8906

Give my builds a go. Armor/weps/amu are zerker, rings/earrings are a mix of beryl/emerald. Copy-paste links.

GLASS DPS (currently using), pure damage/GS spec, only use Stamina signet or SIO when you absolutely need a stunbreak/condi removal. Most efficient if you play well.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQJARTjcOJv9O6OMxBAjiiA68gKmaSpoN7A;ToAg0CtoQygkAJbNOkk1sKZYB

BALANCED DPS (my fav build in terms of survival/flexibility/damage), will work with different weaponsets by changing out some traits, has decent damage and very good survivability. Works well with adrenaline burning 2ndarys.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQJARTjkOJvNP6OMxBAkCryyooIgUPaDO5A;ToAg0CtoQygkAJbNOkk1sKZYB

SUPPORT DPS (usual shoutspec mixed with self sustainability), ok damage, good party support/buffing and very good survivability. Doesn’t rely on certain weaponsets.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQJARTnkOk8YzDSBxEhAAfwKThi0HgL9gM0SD;ToAg0CtoQygkAJbNOkk1s

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Posted by: cook.2631

cook.2631

Just a quick question regarding armor, would getting full Vigils be good? They are Power/Vitality/Toughness and each piece is cheap compared to the crafted gear on the Trading House. I was thinking of pairing that will full Berserker Jewelry then.

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Posted by: phantomFury.9168

phantomFury.9168

Just a quick question regarding armor, would getting full Vigils be good? They are Power/Vitality/Toughness and each piece is cheap compared to the crafted gear on the Trading House. I was thinking of pairing that will full Berserker Jewelry then.

I believe that armor is only Rare level which means you would be giving up some stats; specifically 37 Power, 27 Vitality, 27 Toughness, and 140 Defense from the armor itself. If it is an interim set until you can afford exotic, that’s fine, but at nearly 9G for the set, probably not worth the investment… unless you like the look and could use the armor skin later down the road.

I think the only exotic gear with Power, Vitality/Toughness is from Karma and dungeons. I bought 4 of 6 pieces of my gear with these specs from the karma vendor at the Temple of Melandru and 2 of 6 with Ascalonian Tears.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aurora_armor_of_Melandru#Heavy_Aurora_Armor_of_Melandru
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Historian_Symon#Exotic_Armor

If you haven’t spent much Karma (and/or have lots of jugs or karma from dailies unused), you might have enough to just buy the shoulders, chest, arms, and legs; total would be 168,000 Karma. You would need 360 tears for the Helm and Boots. You get 60 tears per path in Explorable mode. So, run all three paths over two days, and you’ve got those two pieces of armor (plus some decent coin for the runs as well). With the right group, AC is a very easy and quick run.

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Posted by: cook.2631

cook.2631

Alright hit 80 and this is what I have done…

Armor a mix between Knight & Valkyrie stats and for Jewelry all Berserker. Tried to get all exotic but of course that’s something to work towards.

For a build I’m using a GS/LB and trying out a 20/20/0/30/0 build.

So here I am, a fresh level 80 and looking to go crazy tonight after work hopefully finding a group for dungeons.

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Posted by: Spifnar.4712

Spifnar.4712

In general (WvW, dungeons and FotM) I have never needed extra health from gear when already going 30 in tactics, so soldiers is a bit of a waste. For defensive minded warriors, I recommend knights. Then swap pieces for zerker as you get more comfortable.

I definitely don’t recommend soldiers style gear for weapons, because you don’t gain health when swapping to a vitality weapon…so it’s a waste of a stat unless it’s on your “initiator” weapon.

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Posted by: airstu.2579

airstu.2579

Kinghts/Soldiers 20/20/0/30/0 – with shouts or banners. Forgiving
Zerkers/Divinity or Ruby jewels 0/20/0/30/20 – More Damage, less forgiving
Zerkers/Divinity or Ruby jewels 20/30/0/0/20 – Even More Damage, Even less forgiving

Calisto – NSP BPTCBP
Dictator for Life
Shiverpeaks Search and Rescue [Lost]

(edited by airstu.2579)

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Posted by: Shaolin.7981

Shaolin.7981

dude defensive gear in this game makes no sense at all just dont do it.

THIS KIDDY GAME IS ALL ABAUT LUCK AND CONDITIONS IM DONE WITH IT!

they had a good system in guild wars 1 this new system is a fail 100% already half of my mates araund 15 that playd gw1 quit gw2 its stupid just random luck and conditions that do 30k dmg stackd to 50 gtfo!

so done and that i ever supported them for making gw2 was a mistake 6 months from now only mental people wil stay gw2!

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Posted by: CookMETEnder.7582

CookMETEnder.7582

Alright hit 80 and this is what I have done…

Armor a mix between Knight & Valkyrie stats and for Jewelry all Berserker. Tried to get all exotic but of course that’s something to work towards.

For a build I’m using a GS/LB and trying out a 20/20/0/30/0 build.

So here I am, a fresh level 80 and looking to go crazy tonight after work hopefully finding a group for dungeons.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|7.1g.h2.e.1g.h1|3.1g.h4|1n.a7.1n.a7.1n.a7.1g.a7.1n.a7.1n.a7|2s.0.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0|a5.p56.k29.0.f5|55.7|5y.69.6b.6f.6m|e

Try this build out.
It’s what I have always used and it is solid for all content (especially high level fractals).