Guild Wars 2

No doubt ANET is now trying to do good things with the warrior, the buff on impale was nice for condi builds yet it does not add the utility of the other offhand weapons (mace, shield, wh). No one other than condi builds would use offhand sword and when they do they’re sacrificing a lot of damage negation for that. So what could ANET do to improve offhand sword?

My suggestions:

Impale
Keep, no need to change.
Rip
Deal additional (5-10%?) damage per stack of Torment when used. Max bonus 5 stacks. Faster Animation or increased radius.

-Should be the signature move of offhand sword, the additional damage promotes skilled play and timing since using rip early will cancel further Torment stacks.

Before it was “Sweet baby Jesus, there’s a sword stuck to my behind! If he pulls it out it’ll hurt like hell! Pops it out* Ahhmmmm.. That wasn’t so bad huehue.”

Sword 5 changed to:

Duelist’s Gambit
5s Vigor, 2 second channeling, blocks 1 melee attack then activates or force activate:

Riposte
Similar animation and cast time as Axe 2 aoe, same damage as Axe 2, 10s Weakness to enemies hit. No bleeds.

-or-

Similar animation but sped up cast time(1/4s?) of Axe 4, cleaves, same damage as Axe 4, 10s Weakness to enemies hit. No bleeds.

-or-

Similar sped up animation with Flurry, 1.5s channeling evade, Same damage as Flurry. No bleeds.

I’m just throwing ideas around and hopefully ANET gets ideas from these. What are the warrior community’s ideas?

winshmo.7896:

No one other than condi builds would use offhand sword and when they do they’re sacrificing a lot of damage negation for that.

This is not true. Offhand sword has the best direct damage burst available to any offhand in the form of Rip. It is also very capable of performing in a defensive role.

Mace offhand has the highest burst with a close range Tremor, which for me usually hits 1.6k x2 on crits while rip does about 2k ish. The defensive difference of offhand sword with shield and warhorn are leagues apart. You only get 1 block with the sword untraited and on a 15s cd, wh gives you nearly 50% dmg reduction and shield stance give 3s of unlimited blocks.

Rip: 1.92 coefficient
Tremor: 0.80

Even if you land the melee hit followed by the projectile, it’s still lower. I’m not calling you a liar, but perception is hardly reality. Sword 5 only gives 1 block in melee. Outside of melee, it’s a 2 second block on a 15 second CD, and comparing it’s defensive abilities to warhorn, which has 0 offense unless you count a blast finisher, and shield, which only has a stun on a 25 second cooldown for offense is a pointless comparison… it makes sense that those have better defense because they have next to no offense. That’s also why I carefully chose the statement, “very capable of performing in a defensive role”. It isn’t the best, but it’s certainly not the worst.

winshmo.7896:

Mace offhand has the highest burst with a close range Tremor, which for me usually hits 1.6k x2 on crits while rip does about 2k ish. The defensive difference of offhand sword with shield and warhorn are leagues apart. You only get 1 block with the sword untraited and on a 15s cd, wh gives you nearly 50% dmg reduction and shield stance give 3s of unlimited blocks.

If you’re playing against a ranged person, the sword gives you unlimited blocks for a few seconds (2? can’t remember how much) But yeah, I prefer other offhands over sword

I actually don’t mind Ripost because is acts as a sort of “Shield Stance” for ranged attacks. That 2 seconds is all it takes for a Ranger or Engi to waste their harder hitting moves. The bleed stacks are also not bad considering now that Warrior Condi builds seem viable now because Torment acts as a good cover. The bleeds don’t have to be applied that long because in the brief time they are there they do a massive amount of damage, even with Rabid gear.

Offhand sword is to be used purely as a condition weapon, and it does that job well now. I do however think they could raise the number of bleeds applied to 6…although they have a fairly long duration so even there I can’t really complain. I prefer Dogged March but if you wanted you could use Missile Deflect which would make Ripost even more interesting. For Phant Mesmers their duelist will actually easily kill itself from reflection, same with thieves guild and any other fast ranger attacks. It’s invaluable on Mace/Shield but I’m not sure it would be as useful for sword as Dogged.

It may not seem that exciting but having 2 seconds to close the gap between you and the ranged enemy and having the chance to apply more bleeds once you’re in their face is highly useful. As for Impale/Rip, the Torment is a great addition and as a result I only really use rip if it would down the guy (Immobilizing a low health foe then using Final Thrust and Rip is pretty cool looking). The extra damage per stack of Torment would be interesting but probably borderline OP. While it’s a condition offhand using it with Power could mean Final Thrust and Rip doing around the same damage which would be a bit much. Perhaps just make it apply 2 stacks of bleed as well would encourage me to time a pull rather than just leaving it in.

How about the viability of sword as a off hand using other main hand weapons besides sword. Why would they take the offhand sword when other offhands have better utilities (even axe is a more famous offhand). I’ve yet to see others use it in conjunction with say, mh mace or axe.

Veritas.6071:

Rip: 1.92 coefficient
Tremor: 0.80

Even if you land the melee hit followed by the projectile, it’s still lower. I’m not calling you a liar, but perception is hardly reality. Sword 5 only gives 1 block in melee. Outside of melee, it’s a 2 second block on a 15 second CD, and comparing it’s defensive abilities to warhorn, which has 0 offense unless you count a blast finisher, and shield, which only has a stun on a 25 second cooldown for offense is a pointless comparison… it makes sense that those have better defense because they have next to no offense. That’s also why I carefully chose the statement, “very capable of performing in a defensive role”. It isn’t the best, but it’s certainly not the worst.

In regards to the damage of Tremor vs Impale, yeah its true, total damage with Impale does higher just tested goes to show how much I use offhand sword in power builds. I would just really like to see a good defensive improvement with it so that it isn’t so hard to give up on a wh or shield.

Oh in what I suggested on Riposte you still keep the ranged reflect when traited, but I just want its counter/activated ability improved since its quite redundant and unreliable.

I think all active blocks should be more controllable. Meaning it only ends after duration or if you use the finishing move, not when you get hit. Perhaps even giving different finishing move based on range.

So you can keep blocking and strike when it feels good.

Right now i’m using Defektives build, but with Sword/Sword + LB, and it’s a blast in Hots. I’m experimenting with Carrion amulet (Power/Vit/Cond), Lyssa Runes (for more precision, condi duration, and 6pc bonus). I use Missile Deflection for Riposte. If you use Riposte and cancel the block by using another ability mid cast (Imaple, Savage Leap, swap weapons) you can still reflect projectiles while using other attacks. The reflect actually lasts longer this way, but you won’t be able to block the next physical attack. Riposte is on a nice short CD, and works wonderfully with Missile Deflection, even if it’s not intended to work this way.

I think Torment is very strong for Warrior to have, because most classes will try to kite you like their life depends on it, but it is in fact killing them. Plus you can apply it from range with Impale, so I really like this change. I’m having fun with S/S and don’t see the need for any changes right now, since we just got a nice one.

winshmo.7896:

How about the viability of sword as a off hand using other main hand weapons besides sword. Why would they take the offhand sword when other offhands have better utilities (even axe is a more famous offhand). I’ve yet to see others use it in conjunction with say, mh mace or axe.

People take it because they want a mix of burst with the ability to be somewhat defensive. Until yesterday, Shield and Warhorn did a lot to make up for most builds’ lack of sustain. Now that we will be more durable, people will be more willing to explore different offhands. OH mace is more popular because its CC helps setup things like Final Thrust and Eviscerate. I’m not sure why you think OH axe is more popular unless you are referring to PvE where it is used to fill Fury gaps and build Adrenaline.

If you look at the “big 3” offhands, Mace, Shield, Warhorn, they all addressed one or more of the issues that warriors had in the past(and may still have); CCing a target to setup a control chain or burst, spike avoidance, condi removal. It isn’t that the OH Sword is less viable than these three; it’s that it fills a role less commonly needed by the majority of warrior builds; good damage and medium defense. Most warriors will get their high damage from setting up 100b, Final Thrust, Eviscerate, or a hammer chain. That leaves them to get their defense and added control from Mace, Shield, or Warhorn. Offhand sword is an incredibly flexible offhand, but it’s medium defense and lack of CC, currently, make it less popular, but there will always be a “less popular”… and “less popular” doesn’t = nonviable.

I’ve been playing dual-sword power build since the first beta weekend and I can say with full sincerity that this is the strongest the build has been to date. I’m very happy with how swords are at the moment, and wouldn’t mind if they just left it how it is. I feel strong, but not overpowered, I also feel I perform well in numerous situations thanks to the utilities the skills provide.

If I was going to nitpick then I’d like a lower cooldown on some of the skills, and maybe a faster cast time on Final Thrust. But in general I’m very satisfied with how the weapons perform.

I would change riposte to actually also be decent for power builds in terms of damage (thinking about mace #2)..Lets face it, its has lower damage than regular hit actually. Also 13sec poison instead of bleeding.

As for rip its should be a pull, or at least casttime reduced by 50%

I made a post about this a long time ago here

this was my idea for impale/rip and I still think it would be awesome

It is commonly agreed upon that condition warriors are missing something and because of that they are generally weak/easily counterable.

I believe they could make a few small changes to one skill and make condition specs viable on warriors without stepping on the toes of other classes.

That skill is Impale.

This skill has really cool mechanics and it really defines Sword/Sword as a condition setup.

The problems(and fixes):
Slow projectile speed - The speed of the thrown sword could be improved so it is not so easily dodged/strafed. The current speed of arrows would be adequate.

Slow activation for Rip - There’s not really much reason for the activation of Rip to be 3/4 of a second. You have to cast Impale first(and land it), then you have to be in melee range, then you have to actually land Rip.

Small Range for Rip - The range of Rip makes it rather prohibitive to use. I feel like this part of the skill could and should be ranged. They could use a rope pull animation for this part of the skill if it was ranged.

The Improvement(s):
Rip - Using Rip now inflicts a Deep Wound(no, not that deep wound)

Deep Wound - When a deep wound is inflicted, the affected enemy receives 1 random condition every second for 5 seconds. Deep wound appears as an effect on the enemy just like Impale.

I feel these improvements would vastly improve a condition warrior’s viability, and do it in a way and in a place that makes sense. The warrior gains access to a good source of cover conditions but without control over what conditions are applied(from Deep Wound). It also utilizes the cool and unique mechanics of the skill to separate the warrior’s condition spec from other classes’.

Also Deep Cuts (+50% longer Bleeding) became quite crappy for OH-Sword.

winshmo.7896:

How about the viability of sword as a off hand using other main hand weapons besides sword. Why would they take the offhand sword when other offhands have better utilities (even axe is a more famous offhand). I’ve yet to see others use it in conjunction with say, mh mace or axe.

I just had to jump in and comment on this. Axe has been popular for two reasons, its flashy, spinny, slashy, winny skill and combining that with omnomberry pies. Now the omnomberry pies have been nerfed since, but people always want their spins. Don’t ask, I’ve learned not to over the years. There’s no rhyme or reason, its just human nature I guess.

Veritas.6071:

winshmo.7896:

No one other than condi builds would use offhand sword and when they do they’re sacrificing a lot of damage negation for that.

This is not true. Offhand sword has the best direct damage burst available to any offhand in the form of Rip. It is also very capable of performing in a defensive role.

No one uses offhand sword for anything other than condition damage. And even then it is still a toss up because you are losing amazing utility from the shield.

If you are wasting 1.25sec to do 1k damage with an Impale Rip combo then you are doing it wrong. Sorry mate. You are way better off using your offhand for utility.

Drek Thalon.5490:

Veritas.6071:

winshmo.7896:

No one other than condi builds would use offhand sword and when they do they’re sacrificing a lot of damage negation for that.

This is not true. Offhand sword has the best direct damage burst available to any offhand in the form of Rip. It is also very capable of performing in a defensive role.

No one uses offhand sword for anything other than condition damage. And even then it is still a toss up because you are losing amazing utility from the shield.

If you are wasting 1.25sec to do 1k damage with an Impale Rip combo then you are doing it wrong. Sorry mate. You are way better off using your offhand for utility.

Torment scales at .0375 or .075. That means, you get ~4 dps on a stationary opponent and ~8 dps on one that is moving per 100 condition damage. The only condition which scales at a lesser rate is bleeding (confusion is equal). That isn’t stellar but it isn’t terrible.

Meanwhile, in my power build, I get the base Torment tics of ~32/~63(ignoring my condi damage) and my Rip hits for:

(952 avg weapon damage) * 1915 Power * (1.92 skill coefficient) (2.5 crit modifier) (1.15 % damage) / (2600 target’s Armor) = 3870 Damage

-I used the crit modifier because I have 100% crit

And that’s at the time I decide to pull it out. I don’t Impale and immediately Rip, so I’m not dealing with a 1.25 second rotation.

It’s totally fine if you don’t like the skills that the weapon brings, but I just wanted to show readers your assessment isn’t exactly accurate.

You don’t have 100% crit in pvp.

Drek Thalon.5490:

You don’t have 100% crit in pvp.

The OH sword exists outside sPvP, and because that was never specified, there was no reason to assume we were talking about only 1 game type.