Guild Wars 2

I get plenty kills in PVT, if you had trouble killing players in PVT then I pity you.

Just a little information, kitten much false info is being spread.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vIAQFACAA-zUBBofApmFRjtyqIasKbYqXER1AA-w

Almost 3k toughness with ascended PVT and soldier runes (which is what I guess OP is going for). However, any sensible warrior goes at least 20 into Defense, totalling for almost 3200 armor without utilities and other bonusses (like thick skin).

IMO complete overkill, but I can imagine it having some use in zergs.

Therefore, the only advice I can give the OP is to make this ascended armor if he will only play ZvZ. In every other aspect of the game this gear is completely inferior to many other stat combinations.

Also, I repeat myself in saying that even then, going through the pain of making ascended gear is not worth it for a very small increase in strength while ZvZing.

hellsmachine.4085:

I get plenty kills in PVT, if you had trouble killing players in PVT then I pity you.

I pity the players you killed while in PVT.

PVT is just a crutch, unless you’re new. If you aren’t new, I would suggest Knight’s with zerk weapons/trinkets. a t s e has alot of valid points, he just might not be stating them exactly the way he means. If you’re just a zergling who follows the commander tag, go ahead and run whatever you want, it’s all a huge mess anyways and requires no skills. If you plan on running tagless with an organized group, get with their theorycrafters and hash out a good build. Not many will advocate PVT on a warrior, if any.

There’s two big problems with PVT for us.

-Most important one is a lack of precision…you really need at least
40% or more of both crit chance and crit dmg in order to do any meaningful damage in a short amount of time. This is important because if you take too long, back-up will arrive and that’s that.

-Less important is that we already have a very high health pool. Is more health good? ….of course, but not at the expense of the needs talked about above. We already sit at 21-22k in WvW, that should be plenty no? Yes, sometimes we will get overwhelmed by condition spammers, but that’s just unavoidable. Do you want to smack your opponents across their face with a soft glove and have a gigantic full heath bar, or smash them through the hard earth and see them flee before you?

hellsmachine.4085:

And as for PvE, I don’t venture PvE much, though I have run Frac 9 with full PVT and we cleared it fine. Though it would have been faster if I didn’t have to stop to rez my fallen team mates that kept dying in their “Only viable zerk gear”

Your teammates unfortunately lacked skill or familiarity, fractal 9 is not hard. Do note that PVT becomes a great disadvantage in higher levels when monsters are strong enough to easily punch through any amount of passive defense, the best strategy becomes active defense and high DPS.

hellsmachine.4085:

Voidwater no, you’re wrong. The name of the ability is irrelevant, sure I could google every skill name in the game, before I post it, but I assume people are smart enough to decipher what I’m talking about. Good to see you are smart enough. Comparing what I said to “Vitality is a useless stat” is, um, just, /facepalm.

hellsmachine.4085:

Shouts? Who mentioned shouts? Try Axe 2 mace 4 = 8 stacks of weakness. . I’m going to stop replying now, because I don’think you really know what you’re talking about. No offense.

More importantly, you still ignore my other point, i.e. vulnerability adds very little damage when the attacker uses a low DPS build, not even worth talking about, but you speak as if it were some little-known combo that has a huge impact on your build’s damage.

Axe2+Mace4 is a staple of meta PVE warrior builds, where the vulnerability is more effective and worth mentioning.

Also, if you look past the superficial hyperbole (“useless”, “free kill”), you’ll see that a t s e is saying that vitality has low benefit on warriors compared to other stats. The opportunity cost of taking vitality is pretty high compared to the benefits. There are many other ways to counter conditions and survive without sacrificing so much offense.

It may be different for you with your high latency, making extra defense necessary, but generally it’s not an efficient way to distribute your stats, i.e., whatever role you might play with PVT, you can likely be more effective overall with less defense.

Zagerus.8675:

It could be argued that the more you rely on raw damage the more you are affected by condi’s like weakness and cripple, especially if you have no ranged weapons.

I can argue that cripple hurts low DPS builds more because you have to land many more hits before they run away/heal, while a high DPS build can in some situations burst the opponent down, even when crippled. I don’t think it’s clear cut or universal.

As for weakness, I see two cases:

1. You have high precision/crit damage
2. You do not have high precision/crit damage

For 1., yes, weakness sucks.

For 2., your build is not designed for a damage role, of course weakness doesn’t hurt you that badly. That’s like saying “my direct damage build is not badly affected by condition removal”. This is not really a strength of low DPS builds, just a consequence of the builds having different goals/styles. i.e., you can’t lose something you never had.

Zagerus.8675:

Pen/Paper stat-ing does show big numbers, but it still has to be taken into account that once in a while someone will pop up that doesn’t just run around in circles, use 3 skills and then die. Raw damage would destroy someone doing that for sure.

This is sort of a straw man, no one is assuming that opponents are going to be terrible, nor is this pure theorycrafting, people in this thread speak from experience.

Friends don’t let friends wear PVT. It’s too scrubbish.

If you want to be trololol defensive, go guardian or go home.

Voidwater, you make some valid points. I have tried many different stat combinations especially after this thread, but I still find PVT works best for me. I’m not saying the damage with PVT is good, because I know it’s not, but it’s still sufficient to kill other players 1v1 because of all the power you get.

And Kaga I’m not even going to dignify what you said with a response, lest you have something more intelligent to say.

I don’t doubt that you can kill with PVT, without strong sustainable healing being widely available in the game, I think most builds should be able to kill eventually if they can survive.

I do apologize for my earlier harshness.

Voidwater, you make some valid points. I have tried many different stat combinations especially after this thread, but I still find PVT works best for me. I’m not saying the damage with PVT is good, because I know it’s not, but it’s still enough to kill other players 1v1 because of all the power you get. Maybe it’s because I use the axe. With hammer, PVT will be doing next to no damage.

Also I don’t use bow, so I have no easy way to consistantly condi clean. Vitality helps there.

Again I think it all depends what your goal is, if you wish to be very tanky and hard to kill, whilst still dealing better damage than defensive guard (depends on weapon) then PVT works great there.

And Kaga I’m not even going to dignify what you said with a response, lest you have something more intelligent to say.

kitten useless HTC phone >:[

All good Voidwalker.

EDIT: Voidwater grrrr

What I feel has been unappreciated thus far is just how good Power is as a DPS stat.

Power is by far and wide the best DPS stat by a long shot. and it’s the primary stat on PVT gear.

People here act as if PVT was all about tanking when its primary stat is the best DPS stat in the game. It may not display the same flashy numbers due to the lack of crits, but the overall output is much higher than anything you could achieve with Knight’s gear.

I understand making a case about Vitality being less desirable for a Warrior. That makes sense and is a valid point to make.

But I don’t think Power has factored into the debate much at all.

We could go back and forth about all of the different scenario’s and how conditions affect DPS, but it really over-simplifies the deepness of this game when you only focus on doing the absolute most bleeding edge DPS you possibly can. This is fine when you have an organized group and you know you will probably never die because your 4 other party members are completely geared out and throwing boons on you left and right.

When you don’t have that fully geared out party with constant regen, aegis, vigor ect., that 2k* Vitality becomes handy, that extra toughness built into your gear becomes handy. 2k* Vitality onto a 20k health pool is a 10% difference than if you didn’t have it.

In WvW when you go up against another fully conned/guard leeched out team, you are making it that much more effective for your teammates if the enemy decides to jump on you first. If they decide not to, you have sustained DPS. If you have condi’s too (I.e. Longbow) you have a nice dynamic going on for your damage that isn’t affected to much by any one thing. Add in the variety of Consumables available to you and the viability of non-zerker sets shines through even more.

For me personally, I would neither want a full team of zerkers nor a full team of any other set. If i could choose a team to leave from that WP in WvW with they would have a mix of everything.

I agree with what was said above about power being a keen stat in all of it, and you definitely feel it when it’s not there. I digress though, and I’ll fall back into the idea that you play whatever feels good and fun too you, rather than trying to say this set is better and what not.. that hasn’t gotten me anywhere good at least lol.

Yeah, I definitely would say every gear set has it’s uses.
Saying PVT is useless and for “noobs” and bad players is just not true.

@ a t s e please let them build PVT in WvW, output no dmg is fine for guild raids in front of them

a t s e.9614:

Rofl , vitality counters condition damage? I bet you are one of those cleric or PvT shout warriors who think they are removing condis . You only need cleansing ire and zerker stance to counter any condi spam build . If you’re in wvw then add food. Vitality is the biggest waste on a warrior . We have the highest hp with necros which is already an advantage over other classes , you don’t need more hp. We only need to survive huge damage spikes . With ~2800 armor is enough to get that 33% dmg reduction the rest full dmg .

Can’t agree more. Warrior has a lot of HPS, so what you need is mitigate the damage, not increase your pool to make HPS more time to fill it.

This is the build i’m going for WvW: http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vIQQJASRjMdUGajHmdwJaAB9QDrCuQpYOqjkCxYAB-zQCBYfJDDMQEIQEBYUBBJ7sIaslRFRjVrETDjIqOAACwNvZ28mBO6RP6RP6R76G9mH9mHtMAMLA-e
PvE is full zerker.

a t s e.9614:

Rofl , vitality counters condition damage? I bet you are one of those cleric or PvT shout warriors who think they are removing condis . You only need cleansing ire and zerker stance to counter any condi spam build . If you’re in wvw then add food. Vitality is the biggest waste on a warrior . We have the highest hp with necros which is already an advantage over other classes , you don’t need more hp. We only need to survive huge damage spikes . With ~2800 armor is enough to get that 33% dmg reduction the rest full dmg .

So a sioldier rune healing shout warrior using only FGJ and SIO will cleanse 3 condis on 5 tragets (that’s 15 cleanses) every 20 seconds plus whatever you cleanse on yourself with cleansing Ir if your are running the Hammer train x-x-30-30-x PVT meta build. You also get 1750 healing for each shout. That’s 3500 healing on 5 targets for a grand total of 17500 healing every 20 seconds. It’s not something to laugh at.

Zerker stance and cleansing Ire are great for solo or small 5 man group play where doing more damage fast is better and spec that way but when you start getting into fights with groups of 15+ you need to support each other. That’s why pretty much all serious WvW guilds require most of their hammer warriors to run PVT healing shouts with only a few higher DPS builds. The warriors main job in organized groups is not damage, it’s CC.

Julie Yann.5379:

a t s e.9614:

Rofl , vitality counters condition damage? I bet you are one of those cleric or PvT shout warriors who think they are removing condis . You only need cleansing ire and zerker stance to counter any condi spam build . If you’re in wvw then add food. Vitality is the biggest waste on a warrior . We have the highest hp with necros which is already an advantage over other classes , you don’t need more hp. We only need to survive huge damage spikes . With ~2800 armor is enough to get that 33% dmg reduction the rest full dmg .

So a sioldier rune healing shout warrior using only FGJ and SIO will cleanse 3 condis on 5 tragets (that’s 15 cleanses) every 20 seconds plus whatever you cleanse on yourself with cleansing Ir if your are running the Hammer train x-x-30-30-x PVT meta build. You also get 1750 healing for each shout. That’s 3500 healing on 5 targets for a grand total of 17500 healing every 20 seconds. It’s not something to laugh at.

Zerker stance and cleansing Ire are great for solo or small 5 man group play where doing more damage fast is better and spec that way but when you start getting into fights with groups of 15+ you need to support each other. That’s why pretty much all serious WvW guilds require most of their hammer warriors to run PVT healing shouts with only a few higher DPS builds. The warriors main job in organized groups is not damage, it’s CC.

Heres the problem with that logic. Weve all heard it a thousand times this same argument and this is why its wrong. Other players don’t need warriors to cleanse their conditions. Most other professions have better way to clear thier own conditions than warriors. With the exception of rangers, thiefs and mesmers. 1 of which is almost not welcome in the zerg, thiefs should be no where near the frontiline and mesmers…we always seem to be looking for them but can never find that many to give us veils.

Guardians are better at playing the way you described at shouting to remove conditions. When everyone in your zerg runs good builds warriors are not needed to do anything except DPS and CC that is it. Why should warriors have to babysit bad players with bad builds. If anything warriors should be being babysay by gurdians and elementalists who are much more geared towards being supportive with thier meta builds.

Warlord.9074:

Heres the problem with that logic. Weve all heard it a thousand times this same argument and this is why its wrong. Other players don’t need warriors to cleanse their conditions. Most other professions have better way to clear thier own conditions than warriors. With the exception of rangers, thiefs and mesmers. 1 of which is almost not welcome in the zerg, thiefs should be no where near the frontiline and mesmers…we always seem to be looking for them but can never find that many to give us veils.

Guardians are better at playing the way you described at shouting to remove conditions. When everyone in your zerg runs good builds warriors are not needed to do anything except DPS and CC that is it. Why should warriors have to babysit bad players with bad builds. If anything warriors should be being babysay by gurdians and elementalists who are much more geared towards being supportive with thier meta builds.

In theory that is true, but in practice, guardians alone aren’t enough to supply all the cleansing and healing required to keep the front line alive over a prolonged fight. While Eles have great support even though they are mostly geared for DPS, they are not always close enough to readily provide it since they are part of the back line. Get 5-10 healing shout warriors to accompany your 5 guardians and you have a front line that is nearly unstoppable. Ever wonder why the Warrior Hammer train Meta x-x-30-30-x PVT soldier rune healing shouts?

As for PVT since this is what this thread was originally about, I don’t think it is the greatest, you can get more DPS and just as much tankiness by mixing other types of gear but for those looking for a decent WvW all around set it will do the trick, it just won’t do it as well.

Tom Gore.4035:

I’m starting to craft a set of Ascended armor for my warrior soon. My question is, should I still go for a PVT set in order to be able to fill a few different roles in PvE and PvP?

Because there is no chance in hell I’m going to grind more than one set.

If you had to choose just one set of armor for your warrior and stick with that for life, what would it be?

Sorry to break it to you, but Soldier’s was never the Go-To Set.

Sorry to break it to you, but in a WvW shout builds it is. Unless of course, your on about PvE or sPvP? If so, might want to narrow the scope of your really useless comment.

I love how closed minded people like to make definitive statements.

Sigh.

I’ve already gotten a warning for posting on this thread in the past so it’s not worth going into detail about anything anymore.

I suggest obeying what this person said here:

Warlord.9074:

This general discussion is meaningless if you don’t know how to play.

Bad warriors that go full zerk are free bags in wvw.

If you are a great player you should not be using PVT unless all you do is soak up damage in the front line of a zerg.

Start off with PVT and as you get better as a player start removing the PVTand replacing it with zerker. If you want to remain tanky add some cavaliers or knights.

Moral of the story here is a lot of people like to shoot their mouths off about how great they are and how they never die, and about how the y kill anyone 1v1 etc. Well if you are that good you don’t need to be running in full pvt. ANd If you are running full PVT I call BS because your not killing anyone then.

I personally would never have fun being a damage sponge, but not everyone likes the same things as me.

For some, learning how to play without hindering your own potential is ideal. If this is you, learn to play more offensively and utilize the plethora of FREE invulnerability/evasions offered to us (movement skills, LOSing, dodging). If not, do whatever you want and suit yourself.