Guild Wars 2

Let’s change dis trait and add quickness to it. Everytime you get quickness your allies will get quickness for 4 seconds as well.
To run dis trait you have to sacrifice the strength traitline, so you won’t have a dps warrior + support in one – which means it wouldn’t be op.
Would be a good and interesting alternative for the warrior atm.
Otherwise tactic traitline and especally dis trait is useless for pvp.

Btw. pls change also minor tactic traitlines
garbage > NA > minor tactic traits

and don’t give me torch in hot – don’t you dare !

Whats wrong with Phalanx Str as is?

You just need some team coop to get the benefits. Apart from that, whats wrong with Strength+Tactics? Its DPS+Offensive Support(Might share).

And why, above all, Tactics usage should restrict Strength usage?

Ilias.8647:

Whats wrong with Phalanx Str as is?

You just need some team coop to get the benefits. Apart from that, whats wrong with Strength+Tactics? Its DPS+Offensive Support(Might share).

And why, above all, Tactics usage should restrict Strength usage?

one question.
do you pvp?

you pretty much need the discipline- and defens-traitline to be at least close to being viable. So you have to decide between the strength and the tactic traitline.
Are you actually serious by asking what’s wrong about PS in a PvP perspective? It’s useless af and nobody uses it. And since shoutbow is basically ded as well the whole tactic traitline is garbage. Including quickness to dis trait will be an interesting option for warriors,owing to their ability to get a lot of quickness.

I’m really not willing to explain basic stuff in dis thread.

What is wrong with not running discpline. I only pvp and i run str/arms/tactics.

There arnt any required trait lines to pvp well.

GrosseVogel.8503:

What is wrong with not running discpline. I only pvp and i run str/arms/tactics.

There arnt any required trait lines to pvp well.

lol.
You basically rely on discipline since the trait “fast hands” is there, so actually all along
Why would you even run strength-arms-tactic

those answers….like really?

I don’t see a change to phalanx strength happening. While it isn’t useful in pvp, it is very strong in PvE. See as how it’s almost impossible to make every trait viable in every part of the game I see no reason to change it

Reason to change it is that otherwise the tactic traitline is completly useless and you have to stick with the current warrior build.
Zerk warrior with GS/Ham is too easy countered on a certain pvp lvl and is more gimmick than viable.

It would put the warrior in a way more interesting and more viable spot.
But ye I don’t see any change to phalanx strength happening, as well. I mean it’s good in Pve – cof p1 matters

dominik.9721:

one question.
do you pvp?

you pretty much need the discipline- and defens-traitline to be at least close to being viable. So you have to decide between the strength and the tactic traitline.
Are you actually serious by asking what’s wrong about PS in a PvP perspective? It’s useless af and nobody uses it. And since shoutbow is basically ded as well the whole tactic traitline is garbage. Including quickness to dis trait will be an interesting option for warriors,owing to their ability to get a lot of quickness.

I’m really not willing to explain basic stuff in dis thread.

I do mostly WvW, only a few matches as Warrior in sPvP every now and then. Yeah I am aware of the current Warrior issues (lack of build variety, survivability issues etc.) but still they won’t be fixed by what you suggest.

I agree that Discipline is quite appealing to most people due to Fast Hands trait (I also like Warrior’s Sprint). But what you mention about Defense being almost a “must have” in order to be able to survive long enough in a battle, while its true, its just the “peak of the iceberg”. Still lack of Defense is not the real problem, neither changing Phalanx Strength should be the solution. This is what I would like to discuss a bit.

Currently, the combination to success for a Warrior is Zerker-Stances-Greatsword. Try to remove one of these three things and our chances to succeed are greatly reduced. Why? We need to kill fast in order not to be the ones who die first.

So, we are forced into picking Defense for a single reason! Defense meets the need to stay alive just a bit longer. What Defense has is mostly the additional Endure Pain though Defy Pain trait and the improved Stances or Cleansing Ire.

Do we agree on this?

So, the real problem is that Warrior can’t stay alive long enough. We don’t have very good heals, we have very limited active defenses (evades, blinds, stealth etc) and our passive defenses (toughness + huge HP) are lacking due to the increased damage (Burst & Condi) all professions deal. Our only chance is being Zerker with a GS and utilize stances.

So, the real reason that few of us spec into Phalanx Strength isn’t that its useless… you just need to prioritize other, more essential stuff.

As I see it the only way to fix the problem is to admit it and solve it rather than trying to bypass it (as bypassing it will always make the problem reappear in another form… currently pigeonholing warriors into the same burst build).

It would give the warrior the option to not beeing forced into the zerk build. If you have a mesmer/thief in your comp there is not a single reason to run a zerk warrior or a warrior at all – even if you improve the heals etc. Problem isn’t that he can’t stay alive long enough.Eles or bunkerguards support is sufficient for a warrior.
Problem is that the warrior is too vulnerable towards blinds etc and is to easy countered by eles or moa when he uses rampage. If you watch last wts/go4 you can clearly see dis.

If you would change the PS and include quickness to it – I’m pretty sure sth. like soldier warrior would be defintly viable again. Atm warriors unique selling point is the boon quickness which he gets with frenzy + hightened focus.
It is perfect to integrate a meaningfull supportoption,to make the tactic traitline at least a bit more usefull and to escape from the current gimmick role in which the warrior is stucked in.

I’m still trying to figure out why people wanna take a used trait in pve and change it to make warriors have more options in pvp when there are completely unused traits that could just as easily be change to acomlished the same thing.

I’m still trying to figure out in what way it does matter in PvP that a trait is used for cof p1 and other crap.
Not to mention that I can’t see any other trait that can changed properly to offer a usefull role for the warrior which is different from the current gimmick zerk warr.

you know, pve has it’s “high tier” too, with professional speedrunner guilds (teams) and it’s own torunaments.

degrading pve as some unworthy activity is not buying you any credibility.

Inspiring battle standard, crack shot, rousing resilience, powerful synergy, axe mastery, unsupecting foe, burst precision, dual wielding. All trait that could be changed or replaced.

Valik Shin.9027:

Inspiring battle standard, crack shot, rousing resilience, powerful synergy, axe mastery, unsupecting foe, burst precision, dual wielding. All trait that could be changed or replaced.

Because you don’t use the specific traits or because the traits aren’t made good by Arena.Net doesn’t mean that the concept of these traits is wrong.

Some of the ones you mentioned are the only traits that buff specific skills-types and weapons of the warrior. For example, Inspiring Battle Standard… it has its shortcomings, it should be changed to be useful, but NOT replaced as this trait is the only that buffs banners should exist.

Dual Wielding. Yeah dual wielding 1h weapons is not good at the moment BUT it should be. So the trait should be changed to make dual-wielding viable, not replaced by something irrelevant.

In general you don’t sacrifice stuff you should actually fix just to keep other things the way you want.

Ilias.8647:

Valik Shin.9027:

Inspiring battle standard, crack shot, rousing resilience, powerful synergy, axe mastery, unsupecting foe, burst precision, dual wielding. All trait that could be changed or replaced.

Because you don’t use the specific traits or because the traits aren’t made good by Arena.Net doesn’t mean that the concept of these traits is wrong.

Some of the ones you mentioned are the only traits that buff specific skills-types and weapons of the warrior. For example, Inspiring Battle Standard… it has its shortcomings, it should be changed to be useful, but NOT replaced as this trait is the only that buffs banners should exist.

Dual Wielding. Yeah dual wielding 1h weapons is not good at the moment BUT it should be. So the trait should be changed to make dual-wielding viable, not replaced by something irrelevant.

In general you don’t sacrifice stuff you should actually fix just to keep other things the way you want.

That’s y I said CHANGED or replaced. I understand some of these skills don’t need removed just tweaked to make them better

Valik Shin.9027:

That’s y I said CHANGED or replaced. I understand some of these skills don’t need removed just tweaked to make them better

What stroke me badly was the “…or replaced” part.

Generally speaking I am amazed, as well, how people are stuck on changing some working stuff and doesn’t say anything about NON-working stuff.

I bet that some ppl out there are happy that we got a build that can kill something and they come back here and say… “Wow, ultra-new GS Zerker build with 1 trait changed… Try it out!!!”… instead of wondering “we have 21 weapon combos, why only this few are viable???”.

I still bet that if A.Net silently deleted Arms specialization half warriors wouldn’t even mention its absence.

adozu.6398:

you know, pve has it’s “high tier” too, with professional speedrunner guilds (teams) and it’s own torunaments.

degrading pve as some unworthy activity is not buying you any credibility.

wow thats cool m8. And in what way does it matter for pvp that a trait has its use in pve?
This trait has great potential to be good in pvp as well.
Saying it shouldnt be changed because it has a use in pve is pathetic
@Others: changing traits like crakshot or dual wilding has no influence for another role of the warrior with reference to a support opportunity. That was the main idea.Giving the warrior a great support ability by buffing a trait with big potential.

dominik.9721:

adozu.6398:

you know, pve has it’s “high tier” too, with professional speedrunner guilds (teams) and it’s own torunaments.

degrading pve as some unworthy activity is not buying you any credibility.

wow thats cool m8. And in what way does it matter for pvp that a trait has its use in pve?
This trait has great potential to be good in pvp as well.
Saying it shouldnt be changed because it has a use in pve is pathetic
@Others: changing traits like crakshot or dual wilding has no influence for another role of the warrior with reference to a support opportunity. That was the main idea.Giving the warrior a great support ability by buffing a trait with big potential.

The same logic could be used in reverse. Y does it matter for a pve stand point if something is good in pvp? As to support all warriors need is a banner or shout buff to return to that roll in pvp

From a pve standpoint it doesnt matter of course .Thats why I called this thread Phalanx strength pvp.and since this thread is about pvp and the change has not a single negative influence on pve its a horrible argumentation.and one of the main reason why shoutwarrior is bad atm is that toughness is least usefull like never before after the last balance patch.what matters are blinds blocks and invuln which is the reason why bunkerguard engis and eles have great survivability.nothing of that provides a shoutwarrior so even settler shoutwarrior with 3000+toughness is terrible. Even a zerk warrior has better sustain with e pain.

And the topic is making ps usefull in pvp. Neither shouts nor pve is the topic so pls

But changing PS would hurt pve. It’s one on the main traits for warrior in pve

Valik Shin.9027:

But changing PS would hurt pve. It’s one on the main traits for warrior in pve

did you actually read about what I want to change?
Doesn’t seem so

So PS will grant Might and Quickness to allies when you gain it? Just clarifying.

dominik.9721:

Let’s change dis trait and add quickness to it. Everytime you get quickness your allies will get quickness for 4 seconds as well.
To run dis trait you have to sacrifice the strength traitline, so you won’t have a dps warrior + support in one – which means it wouldn’t be op.
…

And how exactly you would justify the fact the usage of one Specialization (tactics) or a specific trait (PS) will restrict the usage of another Specialization (Strength)?

This will be unique among all professions and while we are craving for more viable build options we ’ll get less Specialization combos…

I don’t think that this change will happen but not because the Quickness sharing part is so exaggerating but because the Strength restriction goes against the general profession design.

Sykper.6583:

So PS will grant Might and Quickness to allies when you gain it? Just clarifying.

exactly

@Illias: Why would you have less build diversity?
It’s actually exactly the opposite.
Atm. you have one viable build which is the GS/Ham build using strenght-defense-discipline.
Buffing PS would provide the warror an alternative build by using tactic-defense-discipline.

defense and discipline traitlines are the most important traitlines for warrior – you can’t go without them. So you have to decide if you pick the tactic or the strength traitline. This is already the case.Thing is nobody would pick tactic with PS because it’s useless af.

I atcually don’t understand your point. according to you the change of PS would give you less specialization combos?That doesn’t make any sense at all. You have the same options like before with the difference that you have one more option then…

I was under the impression u wanted it to be quickness instead of might. To give both would then make it viable in pvp without hurting WvW. I apologize for my confusion

no problem, should have clarified this more then

dominik.9721:

@Illias: Why would you have less build diversity?
It’s actually exactly the opposite.
Atm. you have one viable build which is the GS/Ham build using strenght-defense-discipline.
Buffing PS would provide the warror an alternative build by using tactic-defense-discipline.

defense and discipline traitlines are the most important traitlines for warrior – you can’t go without them. So you have to decide if you pick the tactic or the strength traitline. This is already the case.Thing is nobody would pick tactic with PS because it’s useless af.

I atcually don’t understand your point. according to you the change of PS would give you less specialization combos?That doesn’t make any sense at all. You have the same options like before with the difference that you have one more option then…

In the original post you mention

dominik.9721:

…

To run dis trait you have to sacrifice the strength traitline, so you won’t have a dps warrior + support in one – which means it wouldn’t be op.
…

What do you mean “sacrifice the Strength traitline”?

As you put it I understand that Strength+Tactics combination will be restricted in some way. I may not have understood something here!

I don’t have any objection in making PS more appealing for any game mode (actually it should shine in PvP and WvW team fights).

Problem is that while you (and many others) point out that both Discipline and Defense are must-have specializations (Disc due to Fast Hands mostly, Def for increased survivability) you seem not to realize that the actual source of the problem is this.

We are forced into picking the specific 2, out of a total 3, specializations in order to create a viable PvP/WvW build. This is what narrows our build variety. Especially without Defense we end up having builds with too low survivability. So, we end up taking Disc-Def by default and have to pick either Strength,Arms or Tactics for the 3rd specialization.

To me the actual problem is that currently we got too low survivability. This forces us into Def. The other issue is that Fast Hands is too essential for almost any a warrior build (maybe not that much in PvE).

So, the actual (and most pressing) problem is survivability. After that its that Arms and Tactics specializations are not appealing enough to convince anyone to pick them over strength. Last, but not least, its that since Fast Hands is too essential for Warriors, we are being forced lock into Discipline.

These problems require more than tweaking 1 or 2 traits or changing 1 trait-line.

I hope now you get my point.

What do you mean “sacrifice the Strength traitline”?

I already explained it multipile times now. Warrior needs discipline + defense traitline to be viable. Since you are only able to choose 3 at all you have to decide if you pick tactic traitline or the strength traitline.
So if you want to choose tactic traitline you have to sacrifice the strength traitline.You can’t have the current zerk warrior GS/Ham with the tactictraitline also. You have to decide.

After that its that Arms and Tactics specializations are not appealing enough to convince anyone to pick them over strength.

That’s exactly the reason why I started this thread – to change this – to provide a viable alternative.

We are forced into picking the specific 2, out of a total 3, specializations in order to create a viable PvP/WvW build. This is what narrows our build variety

That’s true but that has nothing to do with the thread. Build diversity will be better after buffing PS not worse.
I don’t want to talk about “problems” the warrior has because he’s forced into 2 traitlines I started dis thread to provide an option for the warrior beeing able to offer a usefull role in a teamcomp which is not a gimmick zerkwarrior.

If I would want to talk about warrior problems, I probably would have opend another thread called “nerf eles” because dis is the main reason warrior is in a bad state atm.

Support needs to stand long enough. Warrior can’t stand that long to provide support. Can’t stand long enough to be a good bunker. He can stand long enough only to kill with a GS.

The issue that leads people to go solely after Burstzerker with Warrior is more complex and requires more changes than tweaking PS.

Reason why people are playing zerker, is that cele shoutbow is dead, settler shoutbow is to weak compared to eles and the only option which remains is zerk warrior which is actually just worse than mesmer/thief.

Don’t confound a simple offensive support role with a bunker who provides support for survivebility.
I mean we are talking about giving your team quickness with hightened focus and frenzy to set up an instant burst with your thief for example. you really don’t need to have the survivebility like an ele or bunkerguard to do dis.

dominik.9721:

Reason why people are playing zerker, is that cele shoutbow is dead, settler shoutbow is to weak compared to eles and the only option which remains is zerk warrior which is actually just worse than mesmer/thief.

Don’t confound a simple offensive support role with a bunker who provides support for survivebility.
I mean we are talking about giving your team quickness with hightened focus and frenzy to set up an instant burst with your thief for example. you really don’t need to have the survivebility like an ele or bunkerguard to do dis.

Agreed to this. zerker warrior now cannot kill dd cele ele(unless that dd ele is noob). As you know, most of warrior users like to damage, celestial shoutbow could make some damage but now damage ouput in a game is too huge so celestial shoutbow become like garbage now since they cannot endure its pain level with shout heal.

Only settler or cleric shout war would survive from those dd cele ele classs or blind spam thief or increased dmg output across the game or whatever, but they does only less damage output. So most people just quit war or run zerker warrior becuz there is no more choice, or settler shoutbow.

dominik.9721:

Reason why people are playing zerker, is that cele shoutbow is dead, settler shoutbow is to weak compared to eles and the only option which remains is zerk warrior which is actually just worse than mesmer/thief.

What disappoints me, leaving aside specific builds, is that even the tankyest Warrior builds goes down rather fast post-patch. Even if some can stand a bit better, that is simply not enough for your reduced damage output. Your only chance of having an impact on a fight is while using GS in Zerker gear.

Cele and Settler ShoutBow are dead due to a combination of reasons. Reduced shout heal, WH nerf, reduced impact of toughness due to everyone’s else DPS got boosted while yours is roughly a bit better (talking about warrior limited burning abilities).

dominik.9721:

Don’t confound a simple offensive support role with a bunker who provides support for survivebility.
I mean we are talking about giving your team quickness with hightened focus and frenzy to set up an instant burst with your thief for example. you really don’t need to have the survivebility like an ele or bunkerguard to do dis.

You expect Warrior to act as bunker? Did I understand it right? Even with the most defensive gear you will just be able to withstand a few more hits compared to a Zerker. Go into PvP and see for how long you can stay alive.

Why this should be that better compared to a Guard using “Feel My Wrath”?

Imho your idea about PS change is nice but simply not enough to make a really nice build.

You expect Warrior to act as bunker? Did I understand it right?

No you didn’t. You defintly should read more properly.

dominik.9721:

No you didn’t. You defintly should read more properly.

Sry, english isn’t my native language so I may not understand some things… Your idea is Warrior acting as a “booster” so any burst from ur team is delivered ultra quick right?

Question #1 : Why this can’t be accomplished by a Guard to at least a similar degree? What would be Warrior’s strong points in this and what its weak points?

Question #2 : Any idea of how your proposed build would look like and how you would accomplish what you expect? (mean Gear, weapons, runes and utility skills…)

1) to a certain extent guard is able to do this as well but a warrior has much more access to quickness via hightened focus every 15s + frenzy.

2) as long as it isn’t introduced you can’t really say sth about that. Soldier Ammy GS/Ham,GS/Mace would be options but you need to test it before you can say what build fits best with this trait. Maybe it’s bad anyway – we’ll see.

Nevertheless, tactic traitline is bs atm and not worth picking up, same with arms so buffing PS would be a good thing imo

dominik.9721:

…

Nevertheless, tactic traitline is bs atm and not worth picking up, same with arms so buffing PS would be a good thing imo

At least from a WvW perspective its not bad. PS Frontliner is consider meta nowadays. Minor traits are somewhat off for sure.