Guild Wars 2

Hello I was looking over the warrior trait spreadsheet was enthralled with the idea of changing leg specialist and empowered into minor traits. This would free up space to take under used traits such as empowered allies and desperate power for offensive players or make bow a much more attractive weapon as you would now have space to grab stronger bow string and burning arrows though I recommend those two be merged into one trait and moved into tier 2 to be the equivalent of merciless hammer, sundering mace, and forceful greatsword.

My reasons for this drastic change to the current minor traits in the tactics tree are as follows.

1. These are far far weaker compared to what other classes’ always-on effects due to the nearly non existent activation rate.
2. They feel out of place even though warriors can play support these traits belong on dedicated or designed support classes if you will such as guardian and mesmer. A warrior would be the one holding the enemies off valiantly while others revive plus we have a banner to do that for us if needed to.
3. This change offers space for 2-3 new traits and a t3 minor that could be focused on “boon hate” or brand new effects.

Now about that discipline trait line, yes we have to talk about it. Some would say it’s grossly negligent and disrespectful to players to leave brawn in this condition for so long but not I. I realize it’s because they have no idea what to do with it. So here is my proposal that I believe kills SEVERAL birds with one stone. Warriors are given higher base HP but are denied access to protection, aegis, and have no defensive class mechanics.

But what if every point spent in discipline healed 100hp when you use adrenaline?

Firstly a warriors base hp is 18,372. 33% of that is 6062. The max you could gain with 30 points into discipline is 3000. Which would be the equivalent of having protection up for 50% of battle where you burst once. So now we have established that it’s half as good as permanent protection but protection is still FAR FAR better as it mitigates damage from more than one source; from all sources(players) in fact. This helps us where we need it the most; in SPvP even though players can burst more than once per battle the average of players will only have 15 to 20 points in discipline and only be attacked by 1 or 2 players at a time. I don’t believe this healing should benefit from healing power but it’s up to the devs to decide that I suppose since healing power is fairly weak for warriors in my opinion. Also the healing effect should only take place when the adrenaline is actually spent.

Lets Recap.
1. It is versatile as warriors should be this caters to BOTH defensive and offensive playstyles.
2. It heavily promotes the much needed use of adrenaline and makes skills such as arcing slice worth using.
3. It gives us a defensive class mechanic half as good as protection, stealth, and clones.
4. It is most impactful in SPvP since most skirmishes consist of one or two players causing damage. It’s less impactful in WvW due to an overwhelming number damage sources and PvE champions hit harder than 3k.
5. It makes more sense for a warrior to get a thrill out of battle than to “cast” protection “Spell” and it helps our pitiful healing.
6. It’s also already in the class mechanic tree and fits with our survival through high health theme.
7. It requires minimal changes and no skill spliting

Please please please upvote and comment if you agree in order to get this viewed asap.

Other random fixes I propose are:

Dolyak Signet: Reduces damage taken by 10% like Signet of Judgment. Our bunkers need to be brought up to par; this is a good first step.

Berserk Stance: Increases damage caused by 3, 6, and 9% relative to adrenaline level in addition to it’s effect with a bit of an increased cool down. As it stands now there’s no reason to ever take it over Signet of Fury. This simultaneously fixes the T3 trait Berseker’s Might.

Warrior’s Sprint: Needs to be brought to 25% up in order to accommodate the Sigent changes implemented recently to Ranger and Thief.

Rush: Should remove cripple and chill upon use and the swing should be much faster.

Savage Leap and Hamstring: should be combined as one effect (leap and cripple) or one roll over skill chain (Savage Leap changes to Hamstring on use) to make room for a bleed inflicting skill as we have no viable condition build/weapon.

Furious Speed: 100% chance on critical to grant 3 seconds of swiftness (1 second internal cooldown) or alternatively gain 6 seconds of swiftness when you gain fury.

Dual Strike: Scrap it completely and replace it with a leap that has evasive frames as we need more gap closers and already have enough sources of fury.

Brutal Shot: Shorten cast time or increase vulnerability stacks to 10.

Last Chance: Needs to be increased in duration for 2 seconds to accommodate the recent quickness changes. (1 second to make up for the change and 1 second because its T3 and has longer cooldown than frenzy.)

Furious: I’d like to say this is worst T3 trait for warrior so how about you deal 10% more damage while under the effect of fury or alternatively you gain 10% of your precision as power while under the effect of fury.

Frenzy: Needs to be toned down to 15-20% damage taken.

I like the idea to give an incentive to use adrenaline however healing on burst wouldn’t be that great. A better idea would be to put it on normal hits. Why normal hits? It’s a bit more reliable for all playtypes and weapons (unless it’s a grandmaster tier trait then make it like crits or your idea). I’ve listed for how much elsewhere but I’m too lazy to link so go look at the spreadsheets under the forum project thread (I think it’s something like 100 + .33healing power, I remember it was like half a healing signet).

So why would this not be that great?
Weapons vs adrenaline gain and some "if"s. Either we’d need this healing every time we used burst or it would need to hit and then give us healing. It can’t be whenever we use burst because then warriors go run into a corner with full adrenaline hit nothing to heal. That doesn’t promote adrenaline use, just standing in corners hitting nothing to heal. Honestly, that’s silly.
So it’d have to be on hit. Have you ever seen an Ele have a chance for protection? How about a thief have a chance of stealth with shadow refuge? Well, kill shot is hard to hit most of the time. Hammer, axe, sword can be blocked (Mist Form, Stealth, Teleports.) or easily gotten away from. Longbow and mace would probably have the best hit rate. Greatsword could be hit or complete miss, I don’t use that burst so I don’t know how hit reliable it is.
There’s also the problem of adrenaline. Axe and greatsword get adrenaline fast. Hammer (and to a degree mace) you’re sometimes lucky to have any. So healing on burst would heavily favor berserker styles. Seems kind of mean that a trait that’s supposed to be offensive and defensive favors more offensive weapons that defensive.

I’m not saying my fix of putting it on normal hits would be a end all be all fix, but it would be reliable and better than burst since hammer and mace could access it just as easily as well as it would hit more often with less downtime on miss. Working off normal hits I believe is good because not everyone has 50+% crit. Some just have 4-5% + fury boon. It’s a good idea you’ve got, but just play around with all weapons and some common trait setups in the Mist first to get a good idea of all playstyles (unless you’re sticking it near a grandmaster trait).

Anon.1248:

Other fixes I propose are:

Dolyak Signet: Reduces damage taken by 10% like Signet of Judgment. Our bunkers need to be brought up to par; this is a good first step.

Berserk Stance: Increases damage caused by 3, 6, and 9% relative to adrenaline level in addition to it’s effect. As it stands now there’s no reason to ever take it over Signet of Fury. This simultaneously fixes the T3 trait Berseker’s Might.

Warrior’s Sprint: Needs to be brought to 25% up in order to accommodate the Sigent changes implemented recently to Ranger and Thief.

Rush: Should remove cripple and chill upon use and the swing should be much faster.

Savage Leap and Hamstring should be combined as one effect (leap and cripple) or one roll over skill chain (Savage Leap changes to Hamstring on use) to make room for a bleed inflicting skill as we have no viable condition build/weapon.

Furious Speed: 100% chance on critical to grant 3 seconds of swiftness (1 second internal cooldown) or alternatively gain 6 seconds of swiftness when you gain fury.

Dual Strike: Scrap it completely and replace it with a leap that has evasive frames as we need more gap closers and already have enough sources of fury.

Brutal Shot: Shorten cast time or increase vulnerability stacks to 10.

Last Chance: Needs to be increased in duration for 2 seconds to accommodate the recent quickness changes. (1 second to make up for the change and 1 second because its T3 and has longer cooldown than frenzy.)

Furious: I’d like to say this is worst T3 trait for warrior so how about you deal 10% more damage while under the effect of fury or alternatively you gain 10% of your precision as power while under the effect of fury.

Frenzy: Needs to be toned down to 15-20% damage taken.

On your other ideas.
1) I like it, I agree.
2) I like it, but flat damage is kinda dull… We should think on this one a bit more because I agree Berserker’s Stance needs a lil love.
3) If anyone should be fast it should be thieves and us since we’re melee
4) I think mobile strikes should take care of this so sword, hammer burst, etc can get a hold of this.
5) I’ve been saying this for so long, I’m glad someone else sees that would be awesome.
6) Agreed. I like it.
7) Nah I say leave it (or give it regen instead of fury. Gives a more relentless berserker feel imo). Axe is supposed to be hard to get to them but does a ton of damage when you do. Sadly we need our ton of damage back.
8) Shorten the cast time. Really there’s no reason for it to take 1 sec.
9) I can agree with that.
10) No, I’d say that would make it the worst trait under arms. I actively use it to gain a lotta adrenaline fast then dump into longbow’s f1. It’s great for that.
11) Nah, a better fix would be to not allow adrenaline to be gained while under the effects of frenzy… Or if you wanted to be really mean you lose adrenaline down to bar 1 while under the effects. (1 strikes per 1 strikes). If anyone should take more damage it should honestly be rangers. They’re for the most part at ranged. For melee +damage to you is a death sentence.

Ottohi.2871 You’re totally right about the burst thing that was my mistake I meant on successful adrenaline use; the original post as been corrected to reflect this change.

Thanks for the reply here are some counter points!

2: It’s not just flat damage, berserker stance gives adrenaline slowly so its flat damage (drum roll) over time. XD
4: I thought of that but felt that mobile strikes would be too strong and nobody would run with out it. It already gets a lot of love but rush just plain sucks.
7: We could use more gap closers and less fury; it being an off hand gives you the option to use a gap closer with new weapon combinations such as mace and would bring much life to this under used weapon option.
10: With the proposed changes I would recommend other methods to gain adrenaline for your bow style such as with berseker stance.
11: I thought about that but if you lose adrenaline no one in the right mind would use it and if you just cant gain adrenaline it’s too weak of a drawback was my conclusion.

I love the Furious trait, but then again, I’m not a GS warrior.

Anon.1248:

You’re totally right about the burst thing that was my mistake I meant on successful adrenaline use;

Ok that’s all fine and good but it’s still very offense heavy and not really defensive for the weapons like hammer, longbow, mace, and in some cases sword who gain adrenaline slowly and wouldn’t be able to capitalize on this as often or as well as a greatsword or axe warrior.

Anon.1248:

2: It’s not just flat damage, berserker stance gives adrenaline slowly so its flat damage (drum roll) over time. XD
4: I thought of that but felt that mobile strikes would be too strong and nobody would run with out it. It already gets a lot of love but rush just plain sucks.
7: We could use more gap closers and less fury; it being an off hand gives you the option to use a gap closer with new weapon combinations such as mace and would bring much life to this under used weapon option.
10: With the proposed changes I would recommend other methods to gain adrenaline for your bow style such as with berseker stance.
11: I thought about that but if you lose adrenaline no one in teh right mind would use it and if you just cant gain adrenaline its too weak of a drawback was my conclusion.

It’s flat damage over time. Wow, really? It’s still flat damage no matter how you spin it.

That’s how fast hands kinda is now… I’ve run without it but it’s too painful now to run without it… That’s 15 trait points I can’t get back. I do agree rush has issues however.

While that’s a good idea putting it on an offhand is bad. A gap closer should be on main weapons (yes 4-5 on a greatsword is the main weapon XD). It’s bad because if we get it other classes might too. Thief with heartseeker and a shadowstep plus utilities? GAHHHH!! I mean eleies are rough enough with their closers coming all from their attunements. Think of all the sword/axe warriors you’d see because of 2 gap closers + utilities. It’d be crazy. Put a gap closer on mace mainhand but don’t do offhands or you’d never get people away from you.

Ok, what if I don’t want to take up a utility for berserker’s stance? What if Anet made an ability that made to “fix” so you’re mobile 100b but it required you to use a utility slot? I doubt you’d use it… Make it a trait? Yeah you’d probably want to use it! So why would I want to take a utility slot for an adrenaline gainer just so I can use my f1 power on longbow rapidly and consistently? I love my furious trait because I can get it without sacrificing utilities for the same effect.

I said it’d be mean if you lost adrenaline. However not gaining any would be a good fix. You’ve probably fought thieves with quickness. Their quickness disallows initiative to be regenerated. That’s the same as warriors not gaining adrenaline. I don’t hear any thieves complaining about their quickness (excluding the 50% overall nerf) because you can unload a ton of damage very quickly. Just be smart about your frenzy. Wait until you’re full adrenaline. Frenzy’s not an “I win” button, it’s meant to pressure whatever your fighting and force them to blow defensive cooldowns or die. It’s also a great finisher.

I fail to see how its not defensive; if you’re using hammer or mace you should be using your adrenaline to stun enemies not sitting around doing nothing. The healing is based on how many points you have in the tree not your adrenaline level so the speed at which you gain adrenaline makes no difference at all. So theoretically you could use one block of adrenaline with 30 points invested to gain 3k hp and a 1 second stun. more if it scales off healing power. Also if you play defensive it would worth investing into embrace the pain if you really can’t muster up 1 block of adrenaline for some unknown reason as you know it’s um in the defense tree.

Furious itself is not a bad trait but as tier 3 major??!?!? come on that’s t1 or t2 material; it’s not worth investing 30 points into a tree just for that effect that’s why I’d recommend you grab a utility for your adrenaline if you want it so bad. But now that you got me thinking; maybe it would be better off in the tactics tree as the T3 grandmaster minor trait to create room for something that’s actually worthy of being a grandmaster major trait in the arms tree.

“It’s bad because if we get it other classes might too. "
That sounds like the faulty argument for gay marriage.

sword/axe warriors is exactly what I mean by bring new life to non existent combos just like mace/axe. A 600 range savage leap + another 600 axe leap totals the same distance as one rush, swoop, or ride the lightning but costs you two cool downs. Also since it’s an off hand leap I assume it’ll have around a 20 or 25 second cool down not that scary. They are also affected by chill and cripple.

Play a heavy defensive warrior (hammer + x/shield).Probably over half your fights you will not fill up adrenaline like greatsword or axe does to use your 10 second cooldown burst back to back to back. Over time this leads to situations where the offensive player is getting more healing per second than the defensive player. It scales better when attacking, not defending.
To contrast this something defensive would be toughness. The offensive player would take more damage than the defensive. Therefore it’s defensive.

Here’s a more thorough example. Lets assume it takes the defensive warrior twice (20 sec) as long to power up as the offensive(10 sec) (axe 5 vs all that hammer has). lets set the time to something easy too like 100 seconds. Lets assume as well every single hit lands and they both have 10 points into it. And lastly lets say each has enough to make it heal about 1000. Nice easy numbers.
So we end up with nice easy algebra.
10s = 100. s = 10. 10 × 1000 = 10,000 healing done
20s =100. s = 5 × 1000 = 5000 healing done.
Now lets say it gets the bonus of healing power of about .8*healing power, which is a lot btw. The offensive warrior has none while the defensive dude has lets say 615 from traits plus apothecary’s armor. So the new numbers would be:
Offensive: 10,000 healing.
Defensive: 5 x (1000 +(615*0.8)) = 7460.
Total difference: 2540.
This means that being a quick offensive build this trait does more for them by about 2k health. This means it caters more towards the offensive player because he will be getting the most from it asap. Defensive players are left with a power that makes it better for them to ignore picking up defensive combos, like hammer + mace/shield, and makes it better to go offensive so they can live longer. See how backwards that is? It most certainly does not “cater[s] to BOTH defensive and offensive playstyles.” Just offensive. Either this means you have to run with embrace the pain or a adrenaline generator to get these same numbers. That removes choice.

Furious is fine where it is. Crits give more adrenaline and it’s in the crit branch. Seems pretty logical to me. I’d be ok with it being a tier 2 trait but not tier 1. It is powerful because it almost halves the time it takes to reach full adrenaline after you’ve traited to it since you’d crit so much. It would be horrible in the tactics line. Would you want to put something like shield master into strength? It doesn’t logically fit (like most disciple stuff, but that’s another issue.)

Or gun control, but we’re not talking about that so there’s no reason to digress to it.

So we waste two cooldowns just to get the range of something like ride the lightning/swoop/rush? Well that’s very wasteful. Why not just increase the sword’s range or decrease ride the lightning’s(swoop/rush) range and be done with it? As well as we can be CC’ed (chilled, crippled, stunned, I count ’em all as CC) out of it? That seems very wasteful for two abilities.

Defense tree needs more work then both those trees.

Dicipline just needs a stat that is worth it.

I don’t know why you personally have trouble gaining adrenaline but the only weapon with a faster attack speed than 1/2 of a second is axe the rest attack at the same rate save mace who has an extra half a second on the last attack.

Axe 5 would not be run all dps builds and doesn’t grant adrenaline if you don’t hit anything which it’s easily avoided. Also that makes mace/axe more desirable.
Defensive weapons have the same attack speed as all weapons except axe; so they can actually gain adrenaline faster if they wanted by running inspiring shouts if they are shout based or embrace the pain.

But here is the final nail in your argument’s coffin. Even if dps play styles gained more adrenaline (which they don’t save for axe 5) it wouldn’t matter because in order to do max damage you need to unload a full 3 bars of adrenaline not spam 1 bar every 10 seconds. And don’t forget dps builds don’t run healing power so again it favors defensive builds if healing power is allowed to take effect on it.

And I don’t know why anybody would complain about running an adrenaline booster utility as they would now heal you in addition to letting you use your burst on demand, and in the case of berserker stance boost your damage.

“It scales better when attacking, not defending.” In SPvP you should be attacking when are you not attacking!?!?!?. The only time is when using shield 5 if you’re running away as a bunker you’re not holding your point.

Also this point is moot as current brawn only increases burst damage and that doesn’t help defensive builds at all and even our offensive builds don’t do any good in spvp.

“It most certainly does not “cater[s] to BOTH defensive and offensive playstyles.””
This makes me think you’re arguing for the sake of arguing It still does cater to both even if does favor one or the other which it doesn’t.

Please retest your adrenaline gain over time. It is horribly off. Axe auto attack gains 2-3 more hits in the time hammer auto attack does resulting in faster adrenaline gain.

I’m done arguing however since you’ve concluded that you’re right in the third paragraph.

Except you can gain adrenaline with hammer in other ways as stated above and even if the axe gains more it doesn’t matter axe needs 3 blocks to reach its goal of doing good damage while hammer would only need one to defensively heal. Just because it would favor one weapon assuming no other factors at all come into play doesn’t mean it’s not useful at all for the other weapons which is what you’re saying.

Just in case you forgot when you said that here it is “It most certainly does not “cater[s] to BOTH defensive and offensive playstyles.”

If an axe warrior wants to use control skills he has to equip physical utilities.
If a hammer warrior feels he needs more adrenaline he can trait for it or slot utilities.

Are control skills broken and unfair because axe doesn’t get them? no. Is this version of brawn broken because hammer builds a little less adrenaline? no; each weapon is unique and different your argument makes absolutely no sense.

It’s basically a whine; if you don’t feel you can manage 1 block every 10 seconds or you want to blow 3 blocks every 10 seconds suck it up and trait differently or swap a utility just because you don’t want to change your build or adapt doesn’t mean it’s bad.