Guild Wars 2

If whirling axes reflected projectiles would more warriors actually use it then? It is a bit strange a thief steals a better whirling axe skill than we carry lol

I’m fairly certain more people would use OH axe if axe 5 had reflect. In fact, s+a/lb would be a pretty obvious route to take (double axes anywhere that mobility isn’t needed).

Several people have noted the oddity of a skill stolen from warriors being better than the warrior version, but it wouldn’t be the justification for it.

Now, would it be OP? Quite possibly… that’d be a 3.5s reflect on a 15s CD assuming no trait, that also does reasonably good aoe damage and is a whirl finisher to boot. So if WH was buffed with reflect, I’d expect a little downgrade tweaking to come along with it.

Please, I expect some serious buffs to OH axe on ranger then as it would be pretty much Whirling Defense 2.0 after it even got nerved with the missing +range trait. Could you warriors stop asking for more? The class is overloaded as f already.

Akuni.8604:

Please, I expect some serious buffs to OH axe on ranger then as it would be pretty much Whirling Defense 2.0 after it even got nerved with the missing +range trait. Could you warriors stop asking for more? The class is overloaded as f already.

It’s really not. Should they nerf Rampage Warrior will fall out of the meta. And OH Axe is useless, so what’s so bad about making it actually not blow nuts?

I had few days an idea how to make axe/axe a standalone set..in pvp axe without gs is wothless. The main problem with axe right now is lack of synergy in traits. Either way here is what i had in mind

MH

• n.2; Crushing leap

Description;
Leap at your foe and strike them with axe crushing their armor.
Base damage; 440 (1.1 coe)
6 Vulnerability (8seconds)
Number of targets; 3
Combo finisher; leap
Range; 900
Casttime; 0.75
Cooldown; 10

• n.3 Fierce strike
  Description;
  Smash the ground with your axe to create a cone in front of you to cripple your foe.
  Base damage; 250 (0.60 coe)
  Cripple 5 seconds
  range; 450
  Casttime; 0.5seconds
  Cooldown; 10 seconds

OH

• n.4 Whirling axe
  Decrease base damage by 15%. Decrease casttime to 2.5sec. Add projectile reflection. Buff damage in pve by 50% to bring it on par with damage in pvp version.

• n. 5; Axe storm
  Description;
  Spin and throw axes with attached chain to pull nearby foes. Gain fury for each struck foe.
  Base damage; 350 (1.0 coe)
  Fury; 2 seconds per hit
  Number of targets; 5
  Range; 600
  Combo finisher; physical projectile
  Casttime; 0.75seconds
  Cooldown; 25 seconds

Unless you have an eye to solving issues while maintaining balance, there’s no purpose to proposing these sorts of changes.

The process of “we are at X, I want more, so let’s have X+Y” is just a path to breaking the game. The goal should be making all classes be fun to play, with lots of diversity, and no faceroll easy godmodes.

Look at your proposed Crushing Leap. It travels 50% further than savage leap, does double the damage, hits three targets, and applies a fair bit of vulnerability (perma +6% damage if traited). Combine that with the cone-shaped cripple on Fierce Strike and the pull on Axe Storm and why would anyone play anything but axes?

Your mobility would be better than any weapon set a warrior has, you would be almost impossible to kite, and you would do insane damage via axe auto, your buffed Whirling Axes, and Eviscerate.

To the OP, if warriors get access to Taunt, I expect we’ll see more Whirling Axe use than we have now. Combustive Shot -> Taunt ->Whirling Axes would be deadly.

YuiRS.8129:

Akuni.8604:

Please, I expect some serious buffs to OH axe on ranger then as it would be pretty much Whirling Defense 2.0 after it even got nerved with the missing +range trait. Could you warriors stop asking for more? The class is overloaded as f already.

It’s really not. Should they nerf Rampage Warrior will fall out of the meta. And OH Axe is useless, so what’s so bad about making it actually not blow nuts?

Are you playing both classes and/or know how to open the wiki? Because I guess not.

Stat———————-Ranger———————-Warrior
Damage—————-1008 (3.0)———————1005 (1.85)
Hits————————12——————————15
Total dmg——*12096*+(power*3)———15075+(power*1,85)
Range———-180 attack 90 reflect————-130 attack
Targets———————3———————————5
Finisher———-(Whirl)broken————————Whirl
Movement—————No——————————Yes
Others———-4sec Retail 1vuln/hit—————-nothing

To recap: Warrior damage is higher (with the same amount of power), they can move, their finisher works and they’d probably get the reflect range matching to the attack range.
Meanwhile the only thing Ranger would have is 4 sec of retaliation and maybe 1 or 2 stacks of vuln because who stands in whirling defense while the ranger is immobilized.

Also that rework down there is horrible, it does all things better than current weapons – That’s the definition of power-creep and the reason why Warrior was so strong for a large part of the game (People asked for more and even got it while warri actually deserved some nerfs like for example damage on hammer).

And no nerfing rampage does bat kitten about warrior in PvP btw. A warrior can 1-combo most classes even with stats like marauder or knight/valkyrie. He doesn’t even need rampage for that. Meanwhile he’s still durable enough to survive 3 people on him. Not to mention shoutbow still being strong (Thankfully not as strong as prepatch though). Stop complaining.

You’re simply asking for a 2.0. Nothing to argue about that.

Choppy.4183:

Uhum. Cyclone axe is actually perma vul. Do you see anyone complaining? As far i know savage leap used to leap for 900 (without move speed buffs) unless they fixed it, then again theres no problem to reduce the ranger to 600, right mr mad? Damage is also close to current cyclone axe if you look over wiki.. as for sword..since when its a power weapon to begin with?

Fierce strike is a melee version of throw axe as well. with longer animation, and extra 1 second of cripple.

Axe storm..25sec cd pull is op now? With easy to spot animation?

I see in your world everyone runs with unbinded dodge button, facetanking everything you throw at them (seems to be hotjoin?) if these changes are op in your eyes. These changes brings more utility, not pure damage buffs to 1 shot everything. It also make it less depending on gs opening other weapon combinations. But nvm im not going to argue with you as it would be a waste of time, just throwed my idea around. Bye

skowcia.8257:

Uhum. Cyclone axe is actually perma vul. Do you see anyone complaining? As far i know savage leap used to leap for 900 (without move speed buffs) unless they fixed it, then again theres no problem to reduce the ranger to 600, right mr mad? Damage is also close to current cyclone axe if you look over wiki.. as for sword..since when its a power weapon to begin with?

Fierce strike is a melee version of throw axe as well. with longer animation, and extra 1 second of cripple.

Axe storm..25sec cd pull is op now? With easy to spot animation?

I see in your world everyone runs with unbinded dodge button, facetanking everything you throw at them (seems to be hotjoin?) if these changes are op in your eyes. These changes brings more utility, not pure damage buffs to 1 shot everything. It also make it less depending on gs opening other weapon combinations. But nvm im not going to argue with you as it would be a waste of time, just throwed my idea around. Bye

Why get defensive about it?

Savage Leap has a range of 600 and has a base damage of 252, whereas your Crushing Leap has a range of 900 and a base damage of 440.

Cyclone gives 4 stacks of vuln around the warrior and 236 base damage, but your Crushing Leap gives 6 stacks at the end of a leap that hits harder. With axes traited, the 6 stacks is permanent.

Result: You’ve combined Savage Leap and Cyclone Axe into one skill, and buffed the range and the damage. In the process, making Axe the most mobile weapon set available to the warrior by a significant margin, especially when traited.

Throw Axe is a single target cripple that lasts for 4s and has a 1/4s cast time. Your Fierce Strike is an aoe cripple that lasts for 5s on a 1/2s cast time.

Result: Fierce Strike provides more cripple to more targets where you want it – close to you, which is the pain box for the axe. It’s basically Hammer Shock with a shorter range but on a (now) much deadlier weapon set. Hammer Shock is way better than Throw Axe.

You’ve increased the dps of Whirling Axes by 28.5% with just your 1s reduction to channel time, and then thrown a 15% damage buff on top of that. You’ve also given it reflect.

Result: You’ve made it so Whirling Axes provides the best projectile defense by a lot (longest uptime/CD), given it a feature that the other skills only get via the shield trait, and buffed it to the same dps as 100 blades, but on a mobile whirl finisher hitting 360 degrees around the warrior instead of just right in front of him.

Earthshaker in, channel whirling blades, and you’ll kill every single person who doesn’t have a stunbreak while anyone outside the range can’t do anything to you except ground targetting skills. Oh, and if you’re standing in a field (e.g. fire)? Yeah, gg. On the off chance someone was tanky enough to live through all of that? “Say hello to my fully charged Eviscerate!”

True, your Axe Storm has a longer CD than I’d realized. Of course, it still has the same effect as the Guardian’s Binding Blade but on a lower CD.

The end result is axes become the most mobile, highest dps, best defensive weapon set of all the weapon sets open to warriors, and gets some control thrown in for good measure.

Does that seem balanced to you? It shouldn’t, which is why I’m surprised by your reaction. You make it seem like I just said your idea wasn’t balanced to be mean, when it’s immediately obvious that it isn’t.

Akuni.8604:

YuiRS.8129:

Akuni.8604:

Please, I expect some serious buffs to OH axe on ranger then as it would be pretty much Whirling Defense 2.0 after it even got nerved with the missing +range trait. Could you warriors stop asking for more? The class is overloaded as f already.

It’s really not. Should they nerf Rampage Warrior will fall out of the meta. And OH Axe is useless, so what’s so bad about making it actually not blow nuts?

Are you playing both classes and/or know how to open the wiki? Because I guess not.

Stat———————-Ranger———————-Warrior
Damage—————-1008 (3.0)———————1005 (1.85)
Hits————————12——————————15
Total dmg——*12096*+(power*3)———15075+(power*1,85)
Range———-180 attack 90 reflect————-130 attack
Targets———————3———————————5
Finisher———-(Whirl)broken————————Whirl
Movement—————No——————————Yes
Others———-4sec Retail 1vuln/hit—————-nothing

To recap: Warrior damage is higher (with the same amount of power), they can move, their finisher works and they’d probably get the reflect range matching to the attack range.
Meanwhile the only thing Ranger would have is 4 sec of retaliation and maybe 1 or 2 stacks of vuln because who stands in whirling defense while the ranger is immobilized.

Also that rework down there is horrible, it does all things better than current weapons – That’s the definition of power-creep and the reason why Warrior was so strong for a large part of the game (People asked for more and even got it while warri actually deserved some nerfs like for example damage on hammer).

And no nerfing rampage does bat kitten about warrior in PvP btw. A warrior can 1-combo most classes even with stats like marauder or knight/valkyrie. He doesn’t even need rampage for that. Meanwhile he’s still durable enough to survive 3 people on him. Not to mention shoutbow still being strong (Thankfully not as strong as prepatch though). Stop complaining.

You’re simply asking for a 2.0. Nothing to argue about that.

Whirl finishers suck; anyone would prefer a reflect instead. No Ranger uses whirling defense for the whirl finisher or even for the damage… they use it because it reflects. Warrior axe 5 does inferior damage over time even compared to the auto-attack, using it in PvP just makes you an easy target. The only possible decent way to use axe 5 would be with frenzy, and even then, hundred blades + frenzy is straight up better.

Get the chip off your shoulder and you will realize that axe 5 just sucks, and that is why nobody uses it except for laughs in PvE.

I’d really like to use dual axes for roaming PvE instead of greatsword. I just feel that offhand axe is geared towards dealing with situations that never occur in PvE events. You want to tag every opponent in a PvP zerg? Great! You want to tag every scaled up mordrem is the middle of a player zerg? Funeral!

Instead of buffing the skill, I would have really liked to see some more axe oriented options in the middle of the arms trait line. The passives are decent, the “Dual wield” grandmaster trait is why we care (or double leap finisher if you’ve got some gig set up) but the other options seem too condition oriented to take that line. Axe is pure direct damage and so one of the most likely suspects to go full zerk gear. Given the already high crit chance you probably packing, all these +crit traits benefit cond proc skills most and pure damage far less.

Casting balance aside for concept, I would have loved a trait that gave two of the following effects::
- all whirl finisher attacks gain half a second reflect on cast
- all whirl finisher attacks gain half a second dodge on cast
- Dodging does not interrupt whirling axe
- all whirl finishers which do not hit their max number of targets will redistribute up to one additional hit to existing targets for 50% damage.

So for the cost of a trait, either provide some small measure of defense (for going toe to toe against hard hitting mordrem) or allow axes to scale slightly better against mobs below the 3 count. That or remove the two axe requirement for reaping the reward of using axe mastery.

Thuggernaut.1250:

Akuni.8604:

YuiRS.8129:

Akuni.8604:

Please, I expect some serious buffs to OH axe on ranger then as it would be pretty much Whirling Defense 2.0 after it even got nerved with the missing +range trait. Could you warriors stop asking for more? The class is overloaded as f already.

It’s really not. Should they nerf Rampage Warrior will fall out of the meta. And OH Axe is useless, so what’s so bad about making it actually not blow nuts?

Are you playing both classes and/or know how to open the wiki? Because I guess not.

Stat———————-Ranger———————-Warrior
Damage—————-1008 (3.0)———————1005 (1.85)
Hits————————12——————————15
Total dmg——*12096*+(power*3)———15075+(power*1,85)
Range———-180 attack 90 reflect————-130 attack
Targets———————3———————————5
Finisher———-(Whirl)broken————————Whirl
Movement—————No——————————Yes
Others———-4sec Retail 1vuln/hit—————-nothing

To recap: Warrior damage is higher (with the same amount of power), they can move, their finisher works and they’d probably get the reflect range matching to the attack range.
Meanwhile the only thing Ranger would have is 4 sec of retaliation and maybe 1 or 2 stacks of vuln because who stands in whirling defense while the ranger is immobilized.

Also that rework down there is horrible, it does all things better than current weapons – That’s the definition of power-creep and the reason why Warrior was so strong for a large part of the game (People asked for more and even got it while warri actually deserved some nerfs like for example damage on hammer).

And no nerfing rampage does bat kitten about warrior in PvP btw. A warrior can 1-combo most classes even with stats like marauder or knight/valkyrie. He doesn’t even need rampage for that. Meanwhile he’s still durable enough to survive 3 people on him. Not to mention shoutbow still being strong (Thankfully not as strong as prepatch though). Stop complaining.

You’re simply asking for a 2.0. Nothing to argue about that.

Whirl finishers suck; anyone would prefer a reflect instead. No Ranger uses whirling defense for the whirl finisher or even for the damage… they use it because it reflects. Warrior axe 5 does inferior damage over time even compared to the auto-attack, using it in PvP just makes you an easy target. The only possible decent way to use axe 5 would be with frenzy, and even then, hundred blades + frenzy is straight up better.

Get the chip off your shoulder and you will realize that axe 5 just sucks, and that is why nobody uses it except for laughs in PvE.

How about you go up there and read my first post, understand the whole point of the comparison and then take a chip of your shoulder.
Because my point was that rangers skill is similar yet already weaker than warris and ofc warris ask for more again. I say: only if ranger get’s buffed too.

Necromancer has no right being the spin-2-win class (reaper). Warrior should get reflect on whirling axe and axe #2 – cyclone axe. Whirling axe will always be weak damage wise because it’d become OP to buff the damage too much.

Utility for axes please.

Gerrand.3085:

I’d really like to use dual axes for roaming PvE instead of greatsword. I just feel that offhand axe is geared towards dealing with situations that never occur in PvE events. You want to tag every opponent in a PvP zerg? Great! You want to tag every scaled up mordrem is the middle of a player zerg? Funeral!

Instead of buffing the skill, I would have really liked to see some more axe oriented options in the middle of the arms trait line. The passives are decent, the “Dual wield” grandmaster trait is why we care (or double leap finisher if you’ve got some gig set up) but the other options seem too condition oriented to take that line. Axe is pure direct damage and so one of the most likely suspects to go full zerk gear. Given the already high crit chance you probably packing, all these +crit traits benefit cond proc skills most and pure damage far less.

Casting balance aside for concept, I would have loved a trait that gave two of the following effects::
- all whirl finisher attacks gain half a second reflect on cast
- all whirl finisher attacks gain half a second dodge on cast
- Dodging does not interrupt whirling axe
- all whirl finishers which do not hit their max number of targets will redistribute up to one additional hit to existing targets for 50% damage.

So for the cost of a trait, either provide some small measure of defense (for going toe to toe against hard hitting mordrem) or allow axes to scale slightly better against mobs below the 3 count. That or remove the two axe requirement for reaping the reward of using axe mastery.

Traits that work amazing with Axe

Axe Mastery (thats a given)
Burst Precision (Awesome for Evicerate)
Dual Wielding
Burst Mastery (use with Burst Precision for near spammable Eviscerate with 100% crit rate)
Beserkers fury
Signet Mastery

I’ve been running Axe/Axe in PvE roaming for forever and see no reason to change.
I have found Whirling Axe to be awesome and amazing!! Rending Strikes adds all sorts of Vulnerablity. Plus 3.5 seconds of a whirl finisher is pretty sweet. Burning bolts for days!!
Plus with the right set up, you can spam Eviscerate every 5 seconds. Plus it works great for tagging groups of mobs, as you can just plow through them and keep moving.
Although I would like to see a reflect projectile, or at least a destroy projectile, but as it is I feel that its pretty darn good for where its at.

And as a side note: With Burst Mastery, Burst Precision, and Axe Mastery, you can use Eviscerate every 5 seconds. IIRC HB is on a 8 second cool down, so you can use Eviscerate 3 times to every 2 times with HB. (But I could be wrong)

@pdavis: Axe/Axe is okay, but I feel like there is too much wasted synergy for pve – if you using pure beserker gear, anyway.

With full ascended Zerk gear, I’m currently sitting at 66% crit chance. With sigils, perma fury and the discipline banner I usually throw down, my crit chance is at 94.23%. So while Burst precision is nice on hybrid gear, my burst skills only get an extra 5.8% crit chance from this trait – which is silly.

I have a similarly funny problem with beserker’s fury. Most people shy away from engaging mordrem in narrow passages – as their pre-flesh-golem-nerf charges tend to insta-gib people. With a greatsword I avoid this problem by killing the mordrem before they have a chance to attack. The axes reach their fury too slowly, as by the time I get those 5 seconds of effect, the mordrem are all 1 attack off dying anyway – and they get a chance to charge me before I can kill them. And besides, there are so many other sources of near permanent fury on axe warriors, who needs more?

Signet mastery is powerful and fully viable. I have just got one qualm with it. If I’m farming silverwastes for an hour, for that entire hour I have to hit signet of might every 20 seconds or the effect of signet mastery is wasted. I’m hitting that button 180 per hour of silverwaste, irrespective of whats actually happening in game. That isn’t powerful, that torture.

The Axe mastery tree is fine, the disciple tree doesn’t seem to offer a fair amount of utility to axe though (only 3 of your 6 traits have any effect) and the arms tree, which holds that all important Dual Wield, forces one to take crit skills which are mostly wasted on a zerk player :/

I compare axe/axe to greatsword because I’d like to ditch my greatsword for axes. Unfortunately, greatsword seems to have greater upfront burst damage (for soloing normal mordrem mobs) and far superior sustain (dodge worked into a skill) and much faster travel options – not to mention that with the exact build which out damages axes, I also provide a constant 10 stacks of might to anyone around me.

Axes seem fine in WvW and PvP. In PvE however, I can’t make my axes match the kill speed of my greatsword, despite the fact that axes don’t provide buffs to teammates. I’d like to believe axe is viable, I just feel that one more axe specific trait need to be placed in early disipline or early arms to give it the same level of effectiveness in PvE that all other warrior weapons enjoy :/

oh yeah. i think this is real in need to make axe more viable, but only grandmaster trait should allow this. 10/10 support!

I rather that Whirling Axe also give cripple. Offhand sword and Shield is already defensive enough. Axe should be more offensive oriented.

I suggest Whirling Axe provide “block projectile” effect, and gain might on block and reflect projectile by equip the shield trait.

Akuni.8604:

How about you go up there and read my first post, understand the whole point of the comparison and then take a chip of your shoulder.
Because my point was that rangers skill is similar yet already weaker than warris and ofc warris ask for more again. I say: only if ranger get’s buffed too.

All I see in your post is whining to the tune of “Warrior OP, Ranger weak.”

You don’t understand the basic concept: reflect is valuable in PvP, and nobody cares about whirl finishers because they suck. The damage is meaningless on both skills because auto-attacks are better. Whirling Defense is straight up better than Whirling Axe, because it reflects projectiles.

You deny a buff to a crappy and weak skill because you’re so dependent on your crutch thinking that Warrior is OP, and that Ranger is weak; you have let your jealousy blind you to the simple fact that Axe 5 sucks and needs a buff.

So, I’ve kind of just been reading this thread and snickering. Because I’ve found whirling axe to be extremely viable in SPvP. Extremely. For multiple purposes. Adrenaline building is one of them. Killing thieves who just stealthed is another. Smashing up the squishies flanking you, along with the turrets that engi just dropped is another. (Because autoattack can’t hit people along those angles)

In short, there’s more utility uses that this skill has that you guys are pretty much ignoring, and you might want to factor that into the discussion.