Guild Wars 2

Every time I try to theory craft a build I always run into the wall that is the Discipline line. Without the use of Fast Hands, Warrior builds just don’t function all that well. I’ve never been able to come up with a solution to this problem besides making Fast Hands baseline. That being said, I don’t think this will ever happen.

As a result of this, I’ve thought of another potential solution. I’ve had this in the back of my mind for a long time but never wanted to entertain the idea because it hurts the flavor of the class. If Fast Hands was removed from the game and replaced with a different trait and all weapon skills had reworked cooldowns to compensate, it would probably offer us way more build options than we currently have.

Combine this change with a patch that moves several underused traits around (cough Axe Mastery cough) and it could really open up some options, especially in PvP. Discipline will still be a really, really strong trait line because of Warrior’s Sprint (although this can be replaced by runes), Brawler’s Recovery, and Burst Mastery. This will however hopefully open up the use of Power, Arms, and Tactics.

I would still like to see weapon specific and “give x% of x stat to y stat” traits be removed with something more interesting someday, but right now I would come back to PvP if I knew I could at least run a halfway viable build that wasn’t Defense-Discipline-Berserker. Removing FH will no doubt kill some of the flavor that Warrior has, but I can’t think of any fix to that situation that isn’t either this or making it baseline.

Everyone wants kitten baseline. Baseline fast hands, baseline preparedness. As a necro give me baseline speed of shadows.

Ramoth.9064:

Everyone wants kitten baseline. Baseline fast hands, baseline preparedness. As a necro give me baseline speed of shadows.

Well, if they gave every class something baseline it might be fine, but some classes don’t really need it. Seems like it’s better to have the trait not be required at all rather than designing the whole class around 1 trait.

as a guardian I want 25% movement trait baseline too.

Ragnarox.9601:

as a guardian I want 25% movement trait baseline too.

No, Guardians are not designed around having faster movement speed, no class is. Fun fact, Guardians have 3 baseline traits atm.

I’m not saying that Guardian doesn’t have problems, just that any traits made baseline should be in the name of opening up a ton of build variety. A warrior choosing to not run Discipline loses their movement speed buff, why should ANY class get that speed for free?

I could see them reducing the CD of Death Shroud by default, but not giving them a free speed boost. Let’s not forget that almost all of the speed boosting traits are situational as well.

I think you were involved in the long running threads about this years ago, and you’re right, removing the trait and rebalancing weapon skills and swap traits accordingly is another way to go than baselining fast hands.

I don’t personally see that as more likely than making the trait baseline though. Just seems like more work.

That said the new elite line may open up more build possibilities, like Berserker did, to make the diversity problem caused by Fast Hands to be less of a problem.

For those unfamiliar with the issue, it’s not about making warrior more powerful than it is now, it’s that warrior has historically been balanced around this one powerful trait, to the point that builds that don’t have it are generally underpowered except in niche circumstances. This forces just about every viable build to invest in the Discipline line, which reduces build diversity.

The argument for baselining the trait is to reduce the opportunity cost of not taking Discipline, not to contribute to power creep for the warrior.

Right, I have no interest in making Warrior better than other classes. In fact, I left once I felt it was too strong and it was no longer interesting. I also left because there was 0 creativity to be had.

BurrTheKing.8571:

No, Guardians are not designed around having faster movement speed, no class is. Fun fact, Guardians have 3 baseline traits atm.

All classes have 25% movement traits except guardian and rev/herald which has perma swiftness.

Consecrated Ground (Consecration skills use ground targeting).
Elite duration increase
Improved Spirit weapon duration

Spirit weapons are OP.
Consecrations are OP.
/sarcasmoff
Elite duration…. thats 1 good baseline trait.

BurrTheKing.8571:

I’m not saying that Guardian doesn’t have problems, just that any traits made baseline should be in the name of opening up a ton of build variety. A warrior choosing to not run Discipline loses their movement speed buff, why should ANY class get that speed for free?

I could see them reducing the CD of Death Shroud by default, but not giving them a free speed boost. Let’s not forget that almost all of the speed boosting traits are situational as well.

Guardian: Traveler runes since 2012. Build variety = 0.

Ragnarox.9601:

BurrTheKing.8571:

No, Guardians are not designed around having faster movement speed, no class is. Fun fact, Guardians have 3 baseline traits atm.

All classes have 25% movement traits except guardian and rev/herald which has perma swiftness.

Consecrated Ground (Consecration skills use ground targeting).
Elite duration increase
Improved Spirit weapon duration

Spirit weapons are OP.
Consecrations are OP.
/sarcasmoff
Elite duration…. thats 1 good baseline trait.

BurrTheKing.8571:

I’m not saying that Guardian doesn’t have problems, just that any traits made baseline should be in the name of opening up a ton of build variety. A warrior choosing to not run Discipline loses their movement speed buff, why should ANY class get that speed for free?

I could see them reducing the CD of Death Shroud by default, but not giving them a free speed boost. Let’s not forget that almost all of the speed boosting traits are situational as well.

Guardian: Traveler runes since 2012. Build variety = 0.

Then Guardians need a movement speed trait added in the game and Rev speed needs to be more situational, not to just get it for free. Also, I wasn’t saying that they had OP baseline traits, I just found out that it was a thing and found it interesting.

Guardian’s aren’t alone with not having any build variety, that’s been like every class for ages. Try making a viable Warrior build not using Defense-Discipline-Berserker. This closest I can think is going Defense-Power-Berserker and focusing on condi. Even then, you have a really good burst of condi and then find yourself suffering because you’re just auto attacking waiting for your swap.