Guild Wars 2

Warriors have many, many ways in which we can build our adrenalin, instantaneously even. If we invest heavily into adrenalin building we should have the power to churn out regular Burst Skills, yes I’m talking about chaining Eviscerates/Killshots/Flurries/Earthshakers. And why not? We would give up a lot trait wise to achieve a build that could do such a thing, even a utility slot and the compromisation of our best heal skill to churn out so much adrenalin.

Thieves go around doing this, their entire profession revolves around rapidly chaining attacks (a few revolved around the spamming of a select few skills) so to say that it would be OP is absurd. Warrior is in an abysmal state, I would much rather a buff to our offence before a buff to our sustain that will just make us pseudo guardians.

All I’m suggesting is the removal of the 10 second cool down after a successful Burst Skill, if we have the adrenalin, we should be allowed to use it. A middle value could be reached if the attack misses or is blocked, a minor CD at most, or even the adrenalin bar empties half/all the way so we can’t just spam it till it hits.

Thoughts?

I don’t think it is a good idea, I have a Warrior with Sword/Shield + Rifle with Rampager Gear and I have 95% critical chance with Fury boon. I can litteraly build 30 stacks of adrenaline with a single flurry when i’m hitting 3 ennemies.

You can also do devastating damage combination with Burst Mastery in the Discipline traitline. Sinds switching weapons will always waranty a lvl 2 Burst skill whenever you switch weapon after a lvl 3 Burst skill.

I think the Cooldown is fine and the only thing they realy should do is rewarding the player to use his adrenaline.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNAS3ejcOVvxQ+OMxBEkCNkLMPKig4/UKsD3A-jkxAYLB5sXR0YLjFRjVXjpOJiq9GER1yAwsAA-w

This is kinda the build/gear I am working towards. Right now I am full berserker/GC build with that and it’s great 1v1. Alot of ways to build Adrenaline. Quick access to earthshaker and eviscerate. I killed a d/d thief last night just using Sig of Rage and auto attack because it gave me a full adrenaline bar pretty quickly giving me Adrenal Health and my Sigil of Blood.

They really need to work on our burst abilities and make them something to be feared in all aspects of the game. Unblockable and pierces blind would be a good start but I’d be just happy with unblockable. With the options to quick access to adrenaline I can’t condone a boost in damage but functionality would be nice. A few changes like Eviscerate leap slightly longer, arcing slice swap places with 100B, combustive shot combo field lasting longer, killshot shorter channel, and skull crack either longer duration or more damage + daze or cripple effect after it wears off for 2 seconds.

It’d be cool if we had access to an F2 for the off hand weapon.

1. Warhorn is either an aoe daze or aoe knockback and cures 3 conditions.
2. Shield could be like a mobile wall of reflection but less width.
3. Sword offhand could be an aoe bleed (similar functionality to dagger storm) but with a bigger radius but less movement speed (or stationary).
4. Off hand axe could be a range attack causing a immobilize or a grapple effect pulling targets back since it lacks a mobility attack (leap or charge).
5. Mace offhand could be an aoe knockdown for 1 second.

These ideas are just throwing out there. I didn’t spend a lot of time thinking about them or trying to decide if it would be redundant or not.

Dolan.3071:

Warriors have many, many ways in which we can build our adrenalin, instantaneously even. If we invest heavily into adrenalin building we should have the power to churn out regular Burst Skills, yes I’m talking about chaining Eviscerates/Killshots/Flurries/Earthshakers. And why not? We would give up a lot trait wise to achieve a build that could do such a thing, even a utility slot and the compromisation of our best heal skill to churn out so much adrenalin.

Flurry, Furious and Burst Mastery is why you should never be able to do that.

Flurry gets 12 hits, Furious makes those give up to 24 Strikes of Adrenaline and Burst Mastery makes sure you only need 20 strikes to get back to full Adrenaline.

Thieves go around doing this, their entire profession revolves around rapidly chaining attacks (a few revolved around the spamming of a select few skills) so to say that it would be OP is absurd. Warrior is in an abysmal state, I would much rather a buff to our offence before a buff to our sustain that will just make us pseudo guardians.

Do you realize that Backstab’s damage is actually less than Eviscerate?

Throw in Signet of Fury, Healing Surge and Berserker Stance and you’re looking at chaining together 4 Eviscerates in a very short amount of time.

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

It’d be cool if we had access to an F2 for the off hand weapon.

1. Warhorn is either an aoe daze or aoe knockback and cures 3 conditions.

that will do either two things. Keep the cd the same and the warhorn is OP

or increase the cd and nerf my build.

while the thought of spamming Earthshakers and Eviscerates are pleasing to the mind, it would simply be too powerful. You don’t need to sacrifice a lot just for additional adrenaline gain.

Adrenaline cooldowns are at very least of our problems although I will be the first to admit the mechanics of adrenaline as a whole needs to be reworked, as well as some of the F1 skills of other weapons.

Olba.5376:

Throw in Signet of Fury, Healing Surge and Berserker Stance and you’re looking at chaining together 4 Eviscerates in a very short amount of time.

All without being completely invisible to our opponent!

I actually support this idea, despite all my talks of checks-and-balances.

The mechanic makes a LOT of sense, whereas Adrenaline skills on a cooldown make no sense at all. It would make Hammer the go-to weapon, bring Mace into the limelight, give the Axe/Axe set a new life, and allow competent and creative builds.

Hammer CC chainer would be a legitimate reality. And hell, if Mesmers can have access to such ridiculous amounts of damage and utility, I think giving Warriors a chainable utility is hardly a balance issue at all.

This is why Warrior will never leave the bottom of the barrel, people are too afraid to take the step that is needed, for fear that we will become ‘OP’. Do you think anyone bothered to concern themselves with the thought when building the Mesmer? To a lesser extent Thieves and Guardians? No, they just thought “oh look this’ll be cool, to hell with class balance”
As I said before to stay true to being a Warrior and not a wannabe Guardian we need more offence not defence, our heals need a minor buff to potency/CD but thats about it.
When a warrior walks out onto the battlefield people need to acknowledge us as the DPS machine we were always meant to be. We don’t have stealth, we don’t have clones or allies of any kind, and to top it all off we have no sustain, all of which I am willing to accept if we get the DPS to compensate.
All possible Burst chains could be easily countered, if this buff ever happened you would quickly find out how other classes could nullify us.
You’re getting Earthshakered? Have stability, dodge it, blind us, spam you’re ungodly amount of evades and heals, hide in stealth, hell even just stack us on with cripple/chill and continue to kite me. Only this time there is no “free kill” label next to my name, because if I catch you, I will kill you :]

Olba.5376:

Dolan.3071:

Warriors have many, many ways in which we can build our adrenalin, instantaneously even. If we invest heavily into adrenalin building we should have the power to churn out regular Burst Skills, yes I’m talking about chaining Eviscerates/Killshots/Flurries/Earthshakers. And why not? We would give up a lot trait wise to achieve a build that could do such a thing, even a utility slot and the compromisation of our best heal skill to churn out so much adrenalin.

Flurry, Furious and Burst Mastery is why you should never be able to do that.

Flurry gets 12 hits, Furious makes those give up to 24 Strikes of Adrenaline and Burst Mastery makes sure you only need 20 strikes to get back to full Adrenaline.

Thieves go around doing this, their entire profession revolves around rapidly chaining attacks (a few revolved around the spamming of a select few skills) so to say that it would be OP is absurd. Warrior is in an abysmal state, I would much rather a buff to our offence before a buff to our sustain that will just make us pseudo guardians.

Do you realize that Backstab’s damage is actually less than Eviscerate?

Throw in Signet of Fury, Healing Surge and Berserker Stance and you’re looking at chaining together 4 Eviscerates in a very short amount of time.

Do you realise that Backstab does slightly less damage than Eviscerate, even though the tooltips base damage states otherwise?

Do you realise that Backstab is available much more frequently than Eviscerate due to the revealed buff only being 3 seconds?

Do you realise that in order to Backstab you also have the protection of stealth, one of the strongest boons out there?

Do you realise that Backstab has virtually no cast time?

Do you realise that if traited for, you can have backstab always crit, where-as with eviscerate, there’s always a chance it won’t?

Warrior:

Versatile Rage:
The effects of this trait will now only trigger once every 5 seconds.

Looks like we got more cool-downs instead :>

Yup, NERF NERF NERF. Thanks Anet! So good to see that you give a kitten about what your players think!

Sil.4560:

Yup, NERF NERF NERF. Thanks Anet! So good to see that you give a kitten about what your players think!

Nerf..?
Sorry what? With the minor trait you can only weapon swap every 5 seconds anyway.. How exactly is this a nerf?

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

Sil.4560:

Yup, NERF NERF NERF. Thanks Anet! So good to see that you give a kitten about what your players think!

Nerf..?
Sorry what? With the minor trait you can only weapon swap every 5 seconds anyway.. How exactly is this a nerf?

You could swap it with other things like banners/kits/pickup weapons.

Now you don’t gain adrenaline from that anymore because of the ICD.

Daecollo.9578:

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

Sil.4560:

Yup, NERF NERF NERF. Thanks Anet! So good to see that you give a kitten about what your players think!

Nerf..?
Sorry what? With the minor trait you can only weapon swap every 5 seconds anyway.. How exactly is this a nerf?

You could swap it with other things like banners/kits/pickup weapons.

Now you don’t gain adrenaline from that anymore because of the ICD.

I’d consider that slightly too strong imo, if you want Adrenaline, you should work for it, not spam pickup and drop an object.

But thank you for clearing it up for me.

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

Daecollo.9578:

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

Sil.4560:

Yup, NERF NERF NERF. Thanks Anet! So good to see that you give a kitten about what your players think!

Nerf..?
Sorry what? With the minor trait you can only weapon swap every 5 seconds anyway.. How exactly is this a nerf?

You could swap it with other things like banners/kits/pickup weapons.

Now you don’t gain adrenaline from that anymore because of the ICD.

I’d consider that slightly too strong imo, if you want Adrenaline, you should work for it, not spam pickup and drop an object.

But thank you for clearing it up for me.

In PvP it wasn’t a very viable thing to do, but in the confusion of WvWvW/Ease of PvE it was a way to constantly get full adrenaline.

That’s not a nerf =p that’s an exploit bugfix.

But back on topic: The 0-cooldown Adrenaline Skill would reward adrenaline-stacking builds and allow us to do some pretty crazy things, just like all the other classes. Instead of raw damage or invulnerability burst, we’d have a CC chain that could freeze and lockdown targets long enough to allow for an uninterruptible damage burst.

A trait has a lot less power then it did before, that is called a Nerf. It does not matter how much fancy things you say, it is less then it was before therefore it was nerfed.

Daecollo.9578:

A trait has a lot less power then it did before, that is called a Nerf. It does not matter how much fancy things you say, it is less then it was before therefore it was nerfed.

I don’t believe it is a nerf if it wasn’t working as intended in the first place. Do you think the devs wanted you to have the ability to pick up bundles and swap out of them only to gain 5 strikes of adrenaline?

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

Daecollo.9578:

A trait has a lot less power then it did before, that is called a Nerf. It does not matter how much fancy things you say, it is less then it was before therefore it was nerfed.

I don’t believe it is a nerf if it wasn’t working as intended in the first place. Do you think the devs wanted you to have the ability to pick up bundles and swap out of them only to gain 5 strikes of adrenaline?

Elementalist for Example every time they got regeneration could cure a condition, they added a 5 second cool-down and nerfed them hardcore over a “fix” as well.

Look, it doesn’t matter if it was for a bug fix or not.

AS LONG as a trait has less power then it did before, then it was NERFED.

Dolan.3071:

This is why Warrior will never leave the bottom of the barrel, people are too afraid to take the step that is needed, for fear that we will become ‘OP’. Do you think anyone bothered to concern themselves with the thought when building the Mesmer? To a lesser extent Thieves and Guardians? No, they just thought “oh look this’ll be cool, to hell with class balance”
As I said before to stay true to being a Warrior and not a wannabe Guardian we need more offence not defence, our heals need a minor buff to potency/CD but thats about it.
When a warrior walks out onto the battlefield people need to acknowledge us as the DPS machine we were always meant to be. We don’t have stealth, we don’t have clones or allies of any kind, and to top it all off we have no sustain, all of which I am willing to accept if we get the DPS to compensate.
All possible Burst chains could be easily countered, if this buff ever happened you would quickly find out how other classes could nullify us.
You’re getting Earthshakered? Have stability, dodge it, blind us, spam you’re ungodly amount of evades and heals, hide in stealth, hell even just stack us on with cripple/chill and continue to kite me. Only this time there is no “free kill” label next to my name, because if I catch you, I will kill you :]

So pretty much you are asking ArenaNet for warriors to be the proverbial glass cannon greatsword frenzy hundred blade bulls rush class that bursts people down for 3 seconds then proceeds either to get 2 shot or escapes with 1000 HP thus proceeding to become useless for 30 seconds because we have no durability or sustain. Not sure if that is how ArenaNet, or even me myself envisions a warrior class with a “durable body”.

All the “no-cooldown” adrenaline skill promotes is mindless F1 spamming, gimmicky adrenaline stacking builds, being pigeon-holed to using weapons with F1 skills that are worth a sh*** and worth being spammed (i.e Hammer, Longbow and Eviscerate) and traits that stack adrenaline just to be “viable” and if you think about it doesn’t really address any warrior problems. You can dress a prostitute in a wedding dress but she is still a prostitute.

The last thing a warrior needs is another super-duper awesome gimmick build to rise up the ashes and take over the game sarcasm but rather we need changes that help the class in its entirety, regardless of what the builds are, changes that help all builds.

If you want to fix Earthshaker, make it have a 900 range and a larger radius, its simple. Or change the animation so that it is faster and less telegraphed. Nothing gamebreaking needs to be done to it at all.

Nobody is asking a warrior to be the next Guardian, nor will the warrior having more defensive options or sustain will make it the next Guardian. Our damage is fine nor is having more damage the answer either (though I would not be opposed to minor damage tweaks here and there). The problem lies in the ways we do DPS and how we do it, also the amount of ways we do DPS.

Warriors is overly reliant in melee on CC to deliver damage (no CC = no damage). And being reliant on CC to do damage which isn’t reliant is a problem, because being CC’ed ourselves shuts us down from doing any damage whatsoever.

While classes like Guardians have perma uptime on retaliation, periodic burns, warding rings and symbols which are direct counters to melee can easily achieve free DPS without having so swing their weapons mindlessly.

Thieves have stealth abilities which easily set them up for melee attacks and are better able to avoid CC because of it and other abilities as well as having plenty conditions to inflict on people.

All mesmers do is just summon a phantasm and pretty it does all the damage without having to do anything so you can focus on other skills (yes I have had the terror of trying to fight two phantasmal duelists, and no it did not end well).

While warriors do not have a class specific mechanic that allows them to reliably deal DPS in melee range. We are DPS machines, it is just that we have a less than reliable way and that we are easily stopped from being who we are meant to be.

Ways that this can be addressed are through:

More options for retaliation and stability
Additional adrenaline skills for each weapon
Replacing dumb skills on our weapons like the #2 axe for skills that actually are reliable in doing DPS.
More interesting and diversified adrenaline mechanics
Better healing skills
Tweaking traits and skills that we do have, make some of them stronger

Daecollo.9578:

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

Daecollo.9578:

A trait has a lot less power then it did before, that is called a *Nerf*. It does not matter how much fancy things you say, it is less then it was before therefore it was nerfed.

I don’t believe it is a nerf if it wasn’t working as intended in the first place. Do you think the devs wanted you to have the ability to pick up bundles and swap out of them only to gain 5 strikes of adrenaline?

Elementalist for Example every time they got regeneration could cure a condition, they added a 5 second cool-down and nerfed them hardcore over a "fix" as well.

Look, it doesn’t matter if it was for a bug fix or not.

AS LONG as a trait has less power then it did before, then it was *NERFED*.

What you quoted would be considered a nerf. Again, if they had known that dropping/swapping out bundles was granting adrenaline then it was not a nerf but fix. I don’t think the devs sat down and said, "You know what, let’s allow warriors to gain 5 strikes of adrenaline everytime they swap weapons, even if it’s just a bundle they can repeatedly pick up, swap, and repeat."

It was an oversight and hardly deemed a nerf. It changes nothing on the warrior besides the players that knew this exploit. They obviously can’t do it anymore but it still works with 5 seconds.

I am sure glad that players aren’t in charge of class balance.

I could chain 3 unblockable 10k kill shots in PvP in ~10s with this method just using pre-cast Signet of Fury → Healing Surge → Signet of Fury (-20% signet cd trait)

Nik Rane.6431:

I am sure glad that players aren’t in charge of class balance.

I could chain 3 unblockable 10k kill shots in PvP in ~10s with this method just using pre-cast Signet of Fury -> Healing Surge -> Signet of Fury (-20% signet cd trait)

I was going to ask how you can perform the three shots in 10 seconds if Signet of Fury goes on cool down. Do you by chance mean Signet of Rage + Berserker’s Might?

Nik Rane.6431:

I am sure glad that players aren’t in charge of class balance.

I could chain 3 unblockable 10k kill shots in PvP in ~10s with this method just using pre-cast Signet of Fury -> Healing Surge -> Signet of Fury (-20% signet cd trait)

If people can’t dodge (or reflect, haven’t actually tried SoM on that) the most predictable attack in the history of attacks then they deserve to eat that bullet. But I find it highly unlikely you would be permitted to set off 3 before getting ganked by a bunker build that takes you down in 3 hits.

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

I was going to ask how you can perform the three shots in 10 seconds if Signet of Fury goes on cool down. Do you by chance mean Signet of Rage + Berserker’s Might?

Pre-casting SoR with the Berserker’s Might trait will fill your adrenalin, it lasts until you use it for the first time, then you have a minute before your adrenalin starts to drain away for every time after that.

killahmayne.9518:

We are DPS machines, it is just that we have a less than reliable way and that we are easily stopped from being who we are meant to be.

are we forgetting that guild wars 2 is a team game?

warriors can easily cut down a victim provided that the warrior’s team mates have locked down the victim in place, exhausted the victim’s stun breakers, escape moves etc.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

killahmayne.9518:

We are DPS machines, it is just that we have a less than reliable way and that we are easily stopped from being who we are meant to be.

are we forgetting that guild wars 2 is a team game?

warriors can easily cut down a victim provided that the warrior’s team mates have locked down the victim in place, exhausted the victim’s stun breakers, escape moves etc.

and using your words the enemy team can easily shut down a warrior in sPvP and be prevented from doing anything because we are deadly when we can land blows in melee range and that we are a relatively easy target to CC compared to most classes.

So it is a team game but to rely on other classes in sPvP makes you a liability and only decent in niche type situations.

I agree almost completely with this idea too, but it is silly to think that this could be done without ANY skill nerfs or a nerf to the way warriors gain adrenaline…

Even mesmers have cool downs on their shatter abilitys, but only individual shatter cool downs. Should we get rid of the shattering cool downs too? I think so, and we should nerf mesmers ability to gain illusions.

Also, don’t forget that you can switch weapons with warriors and your burst moves on each of your weapons don’t share cooldowns so techinically you can use a burst move every 5 seconds when you are trained for it. The ability to use burst skills for the same weapon over and over might make a warrior’s short weapon swapping cooldown redundant completely.

It’s a nerf because it makes Superior Runes of the Warrior a lot less powerful.
That’s why this is a knee-jerk nerf; they didn’t take that into account.
They should make it a 4 second cooldown instead of 5.

The signet of the warrior was never very good to begin with. I’m not sure what context your post belongs with, are you being sarcastic?
But the weapon swapping cooldown trait is a huge deal. Show me a warrior who doesn’t currently use that trait, and I will show you a bad warrior.

We are one greatsword burst move buff away from having our entire class based around the 5 second weapon swapping trait. We are much further away from having the cooldowns on burst skills removed (that was the point I was trying to make in my previous post). Also, fast weapon swapping and unlimited burst skill usage contradict each other, and make fast weapon swapping redundant. Don’t forget that fast weapon swapping and burst skill traits share the same tree too, making it even a worse problem.

Superior Rune of the Warrior lowers weapon swap cooldown by a further 1 second.
If you have that and Fast Hands, that means you can weapon swap every 4 seconds.
4 seconds is below the cooldown for Versatile Rage.
What’s not to understand here?

Ahhh! okay i understand, i was looking at forums from my phone, but now that i see your older posts i know that that is what you were referring to. sorry about that, i was really confused.

You make a good point! Versatile rage should also have no cool-down, it seems like a pointless cooldown anyway!

I think the most urgent change warriors need, is having our discipline trait bonus
fixed. I know the change from 30% to 3% burst damage was a panic reaction, but
it is really about time they complete the change and turn the bonus into a useful
bonus.

All professions gain something by investing into their profession specific trait line,
except warriors, who get nothing at all. This is something that needs to change, and
I hope they change it in the next major balance patch, because it is long overdue.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

are we forgetting that guild wars 2 is a team game?

warriors can easily cut down a victim provided that the warrior’s team mates have locked down the victim in place, exhausted the victim’s stun breakers, escape moves etc.

It’s a team game where half the fights do not involve a team, but are between two or three players. In PvP at least. Put another way, it’s a team game where one class above all others needs the support of team-mates to function successfully. Having one or two other players follow the Warrior around at all times (to hide the glaring flaws of the class) is not only unrealistic, but ridiculous.

Look at the way other classes can function well solo and can function even better with the support of team-mates. Mesmers, Thieves, Guardians, Elementalists, etc. do not have to rely on anything but their class mechanics and the individual skill of the player. You cannot say the same about the Warrior.

Reliance of one class upon another does not equate to balance, quite the opposite in fact – the absence of another class to support [babysit] the Warrior creates a definite imbalance.

Why exactly is it that warriors are so bad at solo’ing?

I haven’t got the experience to comment with any weight, but so far I seem to have
enough mobility, damage resistance, condition removal and damage output to hold
my own.

Permanent swiftness, near permanent 5 might, near permanent fury, 10 conditions
to be removed if I exhaust all my condition removal cooldowns, which I can increase
to 14 if I wanted to, and with lyssa you get another total condition wipe if you want
to, on 42 seconds cooldown when traited, and the best thing is that much of that
removal is aeo.

Our ranged options are quite nice, even if you use the bow with a power/prec build,
I’m just not seeing why we are such a bad profession.

For roamers I would suggest that sword/board + hammer build with the P/T/Critdmg
gear. No precision but we get a trait to put crit chance to 50% against stunned victims.
The sword lets you jump around and reach places other people can’t, while hammer
comes down with 4K crits consistently due to +109% crit damage. With some 3200
armor and plenty of condition removal, along with endure pain, shield block, you’re
quite durable.

In the eviscerate instructional video the attack has no CD so obviously somewhere along the lines Anet kittened the pooch. pls make videos showcasing your skills accurate next time plox. il take my 600+ hours back of being LIED to now

Unless it got patched I’m fairly sure the Rune of the Warrior has no effect once you’ve got Fast Hands, though this was a long time ago. Also I don’t believe that Fast Hands would contradict unlimited bursting, you use the correct burst skill to suit your needs. Throwing Eviscerates at a group of people will get you no where, however Earthshaker or Combustive Shot would definitely do the trick.

Also I sincerely hope that was sarcasm to imply that mesmers shouldn’t have shatter cool downs… Though to be honest it would encourage more shatter builds and the invincible phantasms would start to dwindle.. Still, mesmers are in need of a lot of things, a buff is not one of them.

Also Zsymon that sounds very theory crafted with little field play, take it out there and see how long you last against any semi-decent opponent. Without a team to hide behind you’ll soon feel the pain of having no escapes or sustain.