Guild Wars 2

So… With the livestream confirming Empowered Allies being moved to the 20 point tier, I’ve decided to drop it. Overall I don’t see anything in the same traitline that will benefit me nearly as much. I don’t use shouts or stances much either.

0/20/30/10/10 is what I am currently running. However, I’ve been debating a bit as to what to replace Empowered Allies with. I was thinking of putting 5 more into Discipline for Fast Hands and 5 more into Arms of AOO. But I’m not entirely solid on the idea just yet.

Any suggestions that might make the blow a little lessened overall? So far, not particularly happy with the change.

Nike just made a video on replacing EA.

And Nike updated his guide too:
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/83915-axemace-dps-build-for-dungeons-and-fractals-62513/

I am rather unhappy with this change as well – they say they’re promoting support builds but one of or most awesome support option has now been made less viable.
I understand that they want to push us towards shout support but I hardly think that anyone would go that route.

My 2 cents – just put it into Discipline – for general utility the 25% faster movement while wielding a melee weapon is pretty good – and with the build I’m running going this route I only see a 1.75 % drop in DPS.

Harper.4173:

with the build I’m running going this route I only see a 1.75 % drop in DPS.

This is what Guild Wars 2 has become…

Well, that sucks.

Though I wonder if 30/10/0/0/30 is as good/better than 30/25/0/0/15.

Gain 15% crit damage compared to the 10% damage to bleeding foes.

15% crit chance compared to ~11%. Still keep Rending Strikes but don’t have the Greatsword trait

Meh, we’ll see what the full patch notes are.

Empower Allies really doesn’t get used in Pvp too much… Shout builds are amazing in a 3+ warrior group, especially with this patch and warrior’s sprint is only so useful…

Spotter (group bonus to precision) is a 20 point commitment too. Maybe they just wanted to make both the offensive version of uniform cost?

Perhaps if the minor traits weren’t so worthless…

If empowered is fixed next patch (gives 2% per boon intead of the current 1%), i might still be using 30 0 0 10 30. That build is so much flexible than 30 25 0 0 15 or 30 10 0 0 30, or any other build out there. I am a PvX, so i am too lazy to reset traits whenever i go PvE or WvW. =)

Fenrir.3821:

If empowered is fixed next patch (gives 2% per boon intead of the current 1%), i might still be using 30 0 0 10 30. That build is so much flexible than 30 25 0 0 15 or 30 10 0 0 30, or any other build out there. I am a PvX, so i am too lazy to reset traits whenever i go PvE or WvW. =)

It was fixed to 1%.

haviz.1340:

Fenrir.3821:

If empowered is fixed next patch (gives 2% per boon intead of the current 1%), i might still be using 30 0 0 10 30. That build is so much flexible than 30 25 0 0 15 or 30 10 0 0 30, or any other build out there. I am a PvX, so i am too lazy to reset traits whenever i go PvE or WvW. =)

It was fixed to 1%.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Empowered

It says here that it is supposed to be 2%. So fingers crossed that it is a bug. =p

Fenrir.3821:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Empowered

It says here that it is supposed to be 2%. So fingers crossed that it is a bug. =p

Anet is known to forget to mention some nerfs/buffs. Empowered was nerfed together in the same patch with Power of the Virtuous and Bountiful Power, both of which are grandmaster minor traits for boon centric professions.

Edit: my bad, Power of the Virtuos was always at 1% while Bountiful Power was nerfed together with Empowered.

Grok Krog.9581:

Well, that sucks.

Though I wonder if 30/10/0/0/30 is as good/better than 30/25/0/0/15.

Gain 15% crit damage compared to the 10% damage to bleeding foes.

15% crit chance compared to ~11%. Still keep Rending Strikes but don’t have the Greatsword trait

I did the math for this in my written guide on Guru. 30/10 is the 3rd best choice.

30/25>30/0>30/10

Nike – you’re the man!

Think best now is 20-30-0-0-20 with GS+axe/mace and use axe finisher when its up.

Killface.1896:

Think best now is 20-30-0-0-20 with GS+axe/mace and use axe finisher when its up.

Not even close to being the 4th best option.

So just get back to old 30/25/0/0/15 build, with the only difference we now are aware that Forceful Greatsword isn’t always best choice and that pure Axe builds are a solid option.

/dejavù

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

I did the math for this in my written guide on Guru. 30/10 is the 3rd best choice.

30/25>30/0>30/10

30/0 = 30/0/0/10/30?

DesertRose.2031:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

I did the math for this in my written guide on Guru. 30/10 is the 3rd best choice.

30/25>30/0>30/10

30/0 = 30/0/0/10/30?

Correct, with Empowered (or Desperate Power if you are the bravest of the brave!) in Tactics.

nike.. your a genius man. of course I had figured 30/25 would probably be best now, i was running the old EA build before the patch and mainly I was wondering was if it was still worth getting now (i.e. 20/30). thanks for clearing that up though.

I just had 2 questions because I’ve heard otherwise for both.. so generally butternut squash soup is better DPS than omnom pie/ghost? and I’ve heard rifle is better than bow for single target like say some bosses in fractals, is this still the case?

theoretical question: would 30/25 still beat 30/0 if we’re assuming the +20% dmg bonus from desp power?

KazNaka.4718:

theoretical question: would 30/25 still beat 30/0 if we’re assuming the +20% dmg bonus from desp power?

I believe they nerfed that trait but forgot to add it in patch notes. It now says +20% dmg when under 25% health (instead of 50%). so even assuming you got your health that low, if wearing scholars then extended benefit from that trait would only get like a +10% dmg increase from what scholars provides. then you would also be sacrificing the +10% dmg vs bleeding foes from the Arms trait line so that would cancel out. The other half the time your below 25% health youd have to be careful not to get downed/die since that can easily happen when your health is that low. so im pretty sure it wouldnt be more dps than the 30/25 one.

let’s say the nerf was unintentional, and again, we’re assuming you can stay below 50% hp without dying. Let’s say instead of scholar’s rune, you used ruby orbs. Would it THEN be more DPS?

yes, it would be.

also longbow is better than rifle in my experience, even the AA dps is better.

Personally, I was actually excited by the swap, mostly coz Lung Capacity to Adept was a PvP godsend…=S

nagr.1593:

I just had 2 questions because I’ve heard otherwise for both.. so generally butternut squash soup is better DPS than omnom pie/ghost? and I’ve heard rifle is better than bow for single target like say some bosses in fractals, is this still the case?

+80 precisions +8% crit damage > +70 precision and 300ps lifesteal.

Use Longbow.

Replacing Empower Allies is a bad idea. This is what I’ve got:

20/30/0/20/0 Warrior with Empower Allies, using Eviscerate whenever it is fully charged/on CD = 10.6k DPS
0/30/0/20/20 Warrior, same as above: 10.2k
30/25/0/0/15 Warrior without Empower Allies, no Eviscerate, 11.1k

In other words, dropping Empower Allies doesn’t even get you that much more DPS and it comes at the cost of between 5-8% DPS for the rest of the party.

I guess selling it to the “my Hundred Blades is so much damage OMG” crowd is a different story, though. Maybe it’s about time I made a warrior guide regardless, now that there’s an alternative option.

Incidentally I just did a rough crunch and LB is only better than rifle if you hit with Fan of Fire, i.e. at melee range, which sort of defeats the point of the comparison in the first place.

Except Longbow has utility and Rifle really doesn’t, but there is no spreadsheet column for that so I understand why it doesn’t compute.

You’re not really using LB for it’s utility at max range though.

Im struggling to see how rifle is better than longbow when the longbow auto attack seems to be stronger and arcing shot is faster and more powerful than rifles volley.

Even if Rifle was noticeably better single target dps than Longbow, I would still use longbow for the fire field, arcing arrow, and immobilize.

Literally the only encounter in the game I use longbow for is the grawl shaman fractal and the fire field and arcing arrow and immobilize are all immensely valuable for reasons that should be obvious.

Im guessing the rough crunch was with his eviscerate spam build. So you will be spamming killshots which would make rifle higher dps than longbow.

I love the vague claims about things with no explanation as to why. Classic guang.

spoj.9672:

Im guessing the rough crunch was with his eviscerate spam build. So you will be spamming killshots which would make rifle higher dps than longbow.

I love the vague claims about things with no explanation as to why. Classic guang.

lol classic guang. That’s funny, actually. But I will have to agree with you. He keeps pulling numbers out with no math and asks us to just trust him based on his numbers. He has thows out arbitrary values left and right and doesn’t back them up. He has been called out a couple of times to show a spreadsheet/math and either refuses to or to just trust him.

Guang has be right enough (or close to right enough) for me to grant him the benefit of the doubt usually.

I just calculated base DPS because I don’t play warrior that much. It wouldn’t really matter anyway since raw direct DPS scales the same on the same build so long as there isn’t anything that specifically affects one weapon over another. Using the numbers on the wiki plus some general estimates by eyeballing aftercast, I got what I did say was a rough crunch:

Rifle auto = 155 per .96s = 161 DPS
Aimed Shot = No increase
Volley = 1160 in 3s + 10s CD = 52 DPS
Total = 213 DPS

LB auto = 212 per 1.19s = 178 DPS
Fan of Fire = 423 per .83s + 6s CD = 40 DPS
Arcing Arrow = 511 per 1s + 10s CD = 30 DPS
Total = 248 DPS

So LB minus Fan of Fire is only 208 DPS which is slightly less than Rifle. Add in Kill Shot if you’re not running with Berserker’s or Heightened and you get a fair bit more. Worst case it’d worth about 30 extra DPS (about 900 damage over auto every 30s).

I’d still take a LB over Rifle even if the latter had double the DPS of the former tho.

That seems weird. Arcing arrow doesnt feel that much lower than volley. Is that taking into account that the longbow auto hits twice? Because it always seems like I hit almost twice as hard with the longbow auto.

I decided to do some field testing and killed Belka with standard 30/25/0/0/15 berserker build (without using crack shot). Regarding utilities i chose to boost my dmg only with signet of might and signet of fury passives leaving other utilities unused .

lb(skills 1 3 5): 5:09, 5:20
rifle(1 3 4): 5:12, 5:04
rifle(1 2 3 4): 5:04, 5:09.

Without a group, in a raw dmg situation against a single target (boss) rifle seems to be at least equal and would most likely pull ahead if traited. Lb lacks in condition department for a fight like this with poor vuln stacking and bleed uptime causing loss of attack of opportunity.

I’m aware sample size is small and there are lots of ifs about buffs, group participation etc. I just wanted to do an easy test that would give some sort of information about relative strengths of these two weapons. Considering how seldom I use either of these weapons and that I’ll probably never make my choice between them according to performance in this kind of situation I’m somewhat surprised I had the strength to do even 6 kills.

spoj.9672:

That seems weird. Arcing arrow doesnt feel that much lower than volley. Is that taking into account that the longbow auto hits twice? Because it always seems like I hit almost twice as hard with the longbow auto.

I don’t use either, that’s just what the tooltip says. My warrior doesn’t have have a rifle so I can’t exactly test it in practice.