Reworking Banners - Making them fun

Reworking Banners - Making them fun

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Posted by: Arewn.2368

Arewn.2368

I’ve been looking at my banners recently, and started thinking “man, what’s the point of having 4 of these, it’s a waste of potential utility skills. I could just have one and pick it up to change which buff it provides”.
Which got me thinking: banners are really boring, not hugely useful, and clunky to handle.
So how could they be changed?
Well for starters get rid of the ability to pick banners up. It’s in the way.
I know, it’s neat, but when do you really want to have to do this? The skills on the banners generally suck, our banner trait actually discourages us from using multiple banners, and most importantly it’s clunky to handle them.
The entire need to pick them up is created by their long cooldown/duration in the first place. Change that, and we open the playing field to new ideas.

The idea
So what can we do with a banner we can’t pick up? Interact with it.
Instead of picking it up on interact, interacting with the banner actives a banner specific effect.
These are relatively powerful effects meant to be used tactically 1 or 2, maybe 3, times in the banner’s duration. We don’t want to make these into something you have to camp next to to refresh a buff every 10 seconds. Instead, they should be something you (or an ally) can run up to it at key moments to cause a unique effect that impacts the battle field.

New banners: 80 second cooldown. 60 second duration. The up-time remains the same, but you now place them more often, relinquishing the need to re-position them by picking them up. They still provide their passive effects.

*Remember that these effects are ultimately gated behind the banner’s 80 second cooldown.

Banner of Strength: Activate to cause a tremor that pulses outwards from the banner, damaging and knocking back enemies.
Think something similar to Tequatl’s shockwave (except you can’t jump over it).
30 second cooldown. Usable 2 times in the banner’s duration.

Banner of Defense: Activate to create a defensive perimeter around the banner for 5 seconds. Allies within the perimeter block all attacks.
I was originally thinking something along the lines of Guardian’s Sanctuary, but wanted something unique, and with more of a warrior flare. Interesting potential synergy with different profession’s blocking traits. Also doesn’t have the same area denial effect of Sanctuary.
60 second cooldown. Usable once in the banner’s duration.

Banner of Discipline: Activate to create a zone around the banner for 5 seconds. Allies within the zone will always critically hit.
Not sure about this one. Crit banner with an activate that provide more crit isn’t that interesting. And having to stay within the zone could really hamper your ability to do anything with those crits. That said, would be a good damage steroid, and has some potential for interesting play.
25 second cooldown. Usable 3 times in the banner’s duration

Banner of Tactics: Activate to create a zone around the banner which increase the duration of boons by 1 second. Pulses once every second for 4 seconds.
In essence, the banner lets you maintain important boons for a tiny bit longer, provided you stay near it while the effect is active.
20 second cooldown. Usable 3 times in the banner’s duration.

These are of course just my suggestions for what the banners could do, examples of interesting mechanics they could potential bring to the battle field upon activation, and numbers I think would be roughly appropriate in terms of balance (mostly there to provide example numbers though, probably overturned if anything).

I few things to keep in mind:
Though these effects can be activated 2 or 3 times in the banner’s 60 second duration, there’s ultimately an 80 second total cooldown on the banner, creating a 20second downtime where the banner isn’t up or usable (there aren’t any banner cd or duration traits anymore).
Also think about how these are used. They do carry with them the benefit that an ally can activate the effect, however they are essentially hugely telegraphed attacks. You have to go up to the banner to activate it, something an enemy can clearly see you doing and potentially use area denial to keep you away.

Most importantly here is the idea that they cause interesting effects around the banner, rather then just adding more passive bonuses. The banners already passively benefit your stats, so an idea like “gives 10 seconds of fury” would be fairly boring in my opinion. It’s also important that the effects are localized within a small area around the banner, and not something the banner gives you upon being activated that you can run off with (once again, such as a boon).
It should be something that changes the section of the battlefield occupied by the banner. It should also generally keep to the banner’s theme of benefiting allies.

What do you think? comments, criticisms, suggestions, ideas?

(edited by Arewn.2368)

Reworking Banners - Making them fun

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Posted by: Ilias.8647

Ilias.8647

The concept of the ideas are good, still I think that some of the functionalities you suggest would be “too much” for the game and will clearly be OP’ed.

Ofc these won’t be the only not the most OP’ed stuff in game but still, I am up for not implementing more OP stuff into the game before fixing the existent ones (an approach that clearly Arena.Net doesn’t follow).

For a start we could use a trait that reduces banner CD by 20% and increase the radius by 33%. Pulses with some effect per banner would be great to create a “kill-zone” that enemies shouldn’t stand on so “light heartily”.

Currently residing on … Gandara[EU]

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Posted by: Arewn.2368

Arewn.2368

Yea, the given numbers are probably over tuned. It’s more of an example then an actual expectation for how they would be balanced.
It may actually be better to forgo the cds and simply have each banner usable (“clickable”) once in it’s lifespan.

With regards to having more banner traits, I actually don’t think we should have more. We have a lot of weapons, and the corresponding weapons traits (plus other utility-skill traits) are already clogging up a lot of our trait options. It’s nice to have some utility skills that you can simply take “as is”. Inspiring Battle Standard seems good enough as our banner trait.
Specifically regarding a 20% cd trait, I don’t feel there’s that great a need for banners to have 100% uptime, it makes them more one-dimensional, as they simply become a buff you always have out.

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Posted by: Valik Shin.9027

Valik Shin.9027

Just let warrior activate the 2 ability for each banner from the utility slot

Valik Shin
Darkwood Legion [DARK]
Yak’s Bend

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Posted by: doddbox.8153

doddbox.8153

Chop the CD of banners down to 30 seconds with an equal duration, remove interaction with them completely and instead give a temporary buff (similar to what OP mentioned) for 5-10 seconds.

You wouldn’t need a banner trait and the issue with having to picking them up in PvE is gone.

very special guild tag [tX]

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Posted by: Okamikazi.8652

Okamikazi.8652

I have always wanted banners to have their own adrenaline burst skill.

Like you get to throw the banner for bigger AoE damage and also apply a condition based on the banner. For example:

Sword Banner: Causes Weakness
Shield Banner: Causes Vulnerability
Target Banner: Causes Blindness
Book Banner: Causes Poison
Elite Banner: Causes Daze

Each banner throw only costs 10 adrenaline so you can summon three banners and throw them into fields for a blast finish. I know that the banners already can blast finish but with this skill you can do it twice and for more damage.

A burst skill like this can make a warrior seem more like a paragon. It would also allow banners to work with burst traits. The book banner should be moved to the heal slot so we can use all 5 banners. With so many buffs to different stats A celestial Banner Warrior sounds interesting.

Or a better idea – instead of a throw how about a shout that commands all banners in range to use their #2 skill.

(edited by Okamikazi.8652)

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Posted by: Rym.1469

Rym.1469

I’d like them to have at least #2 skills on them being more useful.

[rude]Antagonistka – Revenant, EU.
[SALT]Natchniony – Necromancer, EU.
Streams: http://www.twitch.tv/rym144

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Posted by: runeblade.7514

runeblade.7514

I would like them to lose their environmental weapon status. Reduce cooldown to 20 seconds, and then reduce duration to 15-20 seconds.

It will make them more viable for PvP. I can drop a banner there and fight there or go to the other side and decap a point. The cooldown is too long.

5x Warrior, 5x Ranger, 4x Elementalist, 4x Engineer,
4x Necromancer, 3x Mesmer, 4x Guardian, 4x Thief, 4 Revenant