Guild Wars 2

we were not forced to use defense line, now you just made it even more fundamental
good job anet..warrior seriously needs sustain outside of defense line, not inside…ok thanks

nicknamenick.2437:

uhm ok i dont agree with you… its called Defense traitline for a reason you know?
Sure there should be small sustain stuff in other traitlines.. but they do have those.
Defense should be the best traitline for sustain

except if you don’t go defense line, you have completely 0 sustain compare to the rest of the class

I don’t like how we keep getting pigeonholed into taking traitlines.

Disc was always pretty much mandatory

Now defense is

So you can either stay vanilla and pick up the damage modifiers and go strength, or, drop it and go zerk

But running str/zerk is a death sentence

lighter.2708:

except if you don’t go defense line, you have completely 0 sustain compare to the rest of the class

Strictly speaking, that isn’t quite true. There’s the defensive options in Berserker, defensive tools tied to weapon and trait selection, and then defensive attributes tied to gear/amulet.

Sure, Defense has a couple of new shiny things. But this doesn’t feel mandatory to me, tbh.

Choppy.4183:

lighter.2708:

except if you don’t go defense line, you have completely 0 sustain compare to the rest of the class

Strictly speaking, that isn’t quite true. There’s the defensive options in Berserker, defensive tools tied to weapon and trait selection, and then defensive attributes tied to gear/amulet.

Sure, Defense has a couple of new shiny things. But this doesn’t feel mandatory to me, tbh.

You are basically saying warrior prepatch was completely fine sustain wise(with or without defense line)..gg i’m done…

lighter.2708:

Choppy.4183:

lighter.2708:

except if you don’t go defense line, you have completely 0 sustain compare to the rest of the class

Strictly speaking, that isn’t quite true. There’s the defensive options in Berserker, defensive tools tied to weapon and trait selection, and then defensive attributes tied to gear/amulet.

Sure, Defense has a couple of new shiny things. But this doesn’t feel mandatory to me, tbh.

You are basically saying warrior prepatch was completely fine sustain wise(with or without defense line)..gg i’m done…

But it’s all relative. Depending on your role, running without defense can be perfectly legit. It just means you have to play within certain styles, and avoid others.

Ross Biddle.2367:

lighter.2708:

Choppy.4183:

lighter.2708:

except if you don’t go defense line, you have completely 0 sustain compare to the rest of the class

Strictly speaking, that isn’t quite true. There’s the defensive options in Berserker, defensive tools tied to weapon and trait selection, and then defensive attributes tied to gear/amulet.

Sure, Defense has a couple of new shiny things. But this doesn’t feel mandatory to me, tbh.

You are basically saying warrior prepatch was completely fine sustain wise(with or without defense line)..gg i’m done…

But it’s all relative. Depending on your role, running without defense can be perfectly legit. It just means you have to play within certain styles, and avoid others.

Exactly.

Also, if someone wants to take the position that it shouldn’t have been buffs to the Defense line, then what would you want instead? There’s an opportunity cost no matter where you put it, and they went with a line that most warriors are already including in their builds, that’s conceptually coherent, and involves modifying minor traits.

Ross Biddle.2367:

lighter.2708:

Choppy.4183:

lighter.2708:

except if you don’t go defense line, you have completely 0 sustain compare to the rest of the class

Strictly speaking, that isn’t quite true. There’s the defensive options in Berserker, defensive tools tied to weapon and trait selection, and then defensive attributes tied to gear/amulet.

Sure, Defense has a couple of new shiny things. But this doesn’t feel mandatory to me, tbh.

You are basically saying warrior prepatch was completely fine sustain wise(with or without defense line)..gg i’m done…

But it’s all relative. Depending on your role, running without defense can be perfectly legit. It just means you have to play within certain styles, and avoid others.

except the fact that sustain without defense line is non existence compare to other classes

Also, like even you add defensive on non defense line, like skills etc, defense line will still be best for tanky specs.. since the sustain adds on each other, it’s not like ohh i have evade on greatsword i can’t take defense line anymore, like seriously what the heck, i seriously don’t get your logic here…

lighter.2708:

Also, like even you add defensive on non defense line, like skills etc, defense line will still be best for tanky specs.. since the sustain adds on each other, i seriously don’t get your logic here…

I’m not sure I get yours. You’ve just said tanky specs will use it regardless, and we know most burst-based specs already use it too.

So what’s the problem with putting the buff in a line most use and that seems the most conceptually coherent? Add it to any other line and people will be as kittened, if not more:

Strength? Now most of your condi specs, tank specs, and most Berserker specs are shut out. Discipline? There’s already a thread going that includes people saying Fast Hands is the only thing that keeps them there (for their builds anyway). Arms? Tactics? Minor lines that see the least play in current builds. Berserker? So much for buffing the core.

It may well be that more sustain buffing is required, but a rework of minor traits in Defense seems the most sensible start for a bunch of reasons.

lighter.2708:

Ross Biddle.2367:

lighter.2708:

Choppy.4183:

lighter.2708:

except if you don’t go defense line, you have completely 0 sustain compare to the rest of the class

Strictly speaking, that isn’t quite true. There’s the defensive options in Berserker, defensive tools tied to weapon and trait selection, and then defensive attributes tied to gear/amulet.

Sure, Defense has a couple of new shiny things. But this doesn’t feel mandatory to me, tbh.

You are basically saying warrior prepatch was completely fine sustain wise(with or without defense line)..gg i’m done…

But it’s all relative. Depending on your role, running without defense can be perfectly legit. It just means you have to play within certain styles, and avoid others.

except the fact that sustain without defense line is non existence compare to other classes

Also, like even you add defensive on non defense line, like skills etc, defense line will still be best for tanky specs.. since the sustain adds on each other, it’s not like ohh i have evade on greatsword i can’t take defense line anymore, like seriously what the heck, i seriously don’t get your logic here…

So as an example, if you’re playing the role of roaming DPS to +1 on fights, the Defense line becomes unnecessary as you should never be putting yourself in a situation that requires that level of sustain to begin with. In place of the Defense line you’ll trade off for higher DPS (which will punish your targets more quickly) and better mobility.

If you’re intending to stand on points in conquest, and shoulder the burden of aoe team fight pressure, then you would require Defense by necessity. These are different roles, lending themselves to different play-styles. What you can get away with build-wise depends entirely on what you’re intending to do.

So yeah, throwing more defense into the Defense line isnt as stupid as it seems. It means the other lines remain pure to their purpose to be built into their intended roles.

This latest update just reinforced the current Discipline/Defense/Berserker meta even harder. Sure, you could drop Discipline for Strength if you feel frisky and have an experimental YOLO build of some type. I think Defense has become even more mandatory than Discipline (Fast Hands) now.

The Adrenal Health change was a long time coming though. Just strange that nothing happened to make Strength and Arms more desirable and competitive choices. You could fix a lot just by swapping the position of poorly placed traits, which have been in terrible spots since the June update (Axe Mastery still competing with Berserker’s Power? Really?).