Guild Wars 2

I’ve been working on this a lot frequently for PvP and it’s actually kind of annoying. The 30 points in Tactics is a given, but I feel if you’re running 3 shouts you need at least 20 in defense for Last Stand because having no stability doesn’t seem like a grand idea. A 20 second CD Shake it Off isn’t bad but if you’re being heavily CC’d it won’t save you.

So now you only have 20 points left to spend. If you want hammer then going 30 into makes sense but this is where things get tricky. 30 in Defense and Tactics means no Fast Hands. For me this is a big problem, as FH to me is almost a requirement. So far the best I have is this. Empowered Allies = Quick Breathing

I’m not sure healing shouts support is going to be super viable in PvP. In WvW sure, but we’ll have to wait and see for PvP. The Warhorn trait move will be nice for DPS builds though.

Healing shouts don’t heal for much. The buff is miniscule.

Is not that minuscule if you think about it.

You’ll be able to have warhorn trait on a shout build, meaning you’ll have heavy condi cleanse (plus soldier runs). That means you should (and could) carry 2-3 shouts, and there’s no point on building like that if you don’t go for healing shouts, which means you will abuse healing signet, adrenal health, and the healing shouts.

Since you won’t be suffering from conditions with the heavy cleanse, you don’t really need vitality on your warrior.
The effects from the shouts don’t really benefit going for conditions, so you will rely on Power to deal damage. Meaning your gear/trinkets will carry Power. Now, it depends on your personal preference. If you want to boost your healing (from all sources) you could go with healing power, on a cleric setup. Or if you want to have some crits, you could go knights.

The weapons you’re using suggest a more group oriented gameplay, so since you already go with support traits and skills, I recommend going for clerics. You will get about 420 hps from the signet, plus 130 extra hps from the adrenal health (I recommend you go with 0/0/20/30/20, so you get adrenal on shouts and warrior sprint), plus the extra 150 hps (on average) you will get from the shouts, it can be more, you will have some burst healing there, I think shouts will heal for about 3.2k with full clerics. So even if you go with 2 shouts, thats a lot. Also, if you go for the balance stance trait on defense, to have 3 shouts, thats a huge healing burst, really useful on group play.

TpotjarKing.4985:

With full clerics ( ascended weapons/rings/neck/earrings ) If I use the formula, I get about 2,3k healing per shout, so how do you get over 3k?

With the next update, Shout’s healing will be increased, so if it’s (1192 + 0.8 * HPw) now, his estimation seems fair.

TpotjarKing.4985:

ahh yes, thank you, now I continue playing ^^

I’m preparing my Cleric stuff for October 15th.
Imagine healing ~3K and removing 1 or 2 conditions every 7s (if running 3 shouts and Soldier runes).
And even more support because you will be able to run Improved shouts AND warhorn now… Silly war becoming an offensive cleansing healing Guardian.

The new coefficient is 0.9 instead of 0.8. With 1350 heal power (about what full cleric’s is) you’ll heal for 135 more per shout than you do now. Um, yay? Sure, the base is going up, but to hit 3000 it would have to be improved from 1190 per shout to 1785 per shout which isn’t happening. And if it does, more reason to run w/o cleric’s because the relative improvement is even less.

You can do warhorn trait and shout condition removal all without doing healing shouts. And then if you do go healing shouts, to top it off by going clerics gear which is horrible for warrior because you only have one group heal (shouts, or banner) is just bad.

The real kicker here is that even as awesome as your condition cleansing is, in real situations you will find that it isn’t that awesome because half of your group will be out of the miniscule range of the shouts/warhorn. How do I know this? Because this is the build I currently run (w/o the lolclerics) and it’s that way in PvE where everyone is confined to a smaller area. Until they massively buff the range of heals and boons (to at least that of offensive attacks imo) this kind of group support will always be less than ideal.

If you run PvE with PU groups, just run full zerk. A support is needed when you have a well build group with your friends/guild.

Or in WvW for example, just follow the Lead and heal/cleanse the kitten out of the random zerg.

And 600/900 range isn’t that bad at all. And Cleric with 0.9 coeff is good too. And Warhorn boons are awesome too. That’s the role of a support, a bit of healing, a lot of cleanses & buffs and a good placement/coordination from the group.

Axtozob.4597:

And 600/900 range isn’t that bad at all. And Cleric with 0.9 coeff is good too. And Warhorn boons are awesome too. That’s the role of a support, a bit of healing, a lot of cleanses & buffs and a good placement/coordination from the group.

600 range is terrible. Basically, you can count on it hitting only the people who are meleeing the same target as you. Any ranged, sorry.

0.9 coefficient is good. But clerics is bad because we only have one heal for the group. It’s not like Guardian where you have regen, and virtue of resolve, and symbols, and dodge heals, and empower heal, and shield heal, and mace heal, etc. Going cleric’s on warrior is like going condition damage on guardian. Sure, it “helps” but it’s not free and you give up more than you gain.

Problem is a healing power Warrior deals no damage while other classes can offer similar support while still being more than a healbot.
Vigorous Shouts should at least give Vigor (duh) for a few seconds, now that would be a ton more useful.
1 additional dodge “heals” more than a few green numbers.

Red Falcon.8257:

Problem is a healing power Warrior deals no damage while other classes can offer similar support while still being more than a healbot.

CC with Hammer or Mace ?
Combo field with LB ?
Buffs/cleanses with WH ?

The thing is you are not ready to play a fully oriented support Warrior and see a Warrior not as a Fighter but as a charismatic Leader inspiring and supporting troops.

But I agree, no damage with Cleric. But that doesn’t mean a support Warrior can’t offer other thing than pure heals.

Yaki.9563:

600 range is terrible. Basically, you can count on it hitting only the people who are meleeing the same target as you. Any ranged, sorry.

Most ranged weapons are 1200 range. So, basic maths, if you are between the Melee and the Ranged guys with 600 range, you can reach both of them.
And in fact, Ranged guys are not at the max range, one roll back and you are able to reach the ears of everyone.
(again, organization ? No PU, some guildies and a TS, that’s how Support should be played)

Yaki.9563:

0.9 coefficient is good. But clerics is bad because we only have one heal for the group. It’s not like Guardian where you have regen, and virtue of resolve, and symbols, and dodge heals, and empower heal, and shield heal, and mace heal, etc. Going cleric’s on warrior is like going condition damage on guardian. Sure, it “helps” but it’s not free and you give up more than you gain.

It still improves your 3 Vigorous shouts, the Regeneration via improved Warhorn, your Adrenal health and your Healing Signet. And your explosion combo on Water field eg.

Yaki.9563:

The new coefficient is 0.9 instead of 0.8. With 1350 heal power (about what full cleric’s is) you’ll heal for 135 more per shout than you do now. Um, yay? Sure, the base is going up, but to hit 3000 it would have to be improved from 1190 per shout to 1785 per shout which isn’t happening. And if it does, more reason to run w/o cleric’s because the relative improvement is even less.

You can do warhorn trait and shout condition removal all without doing healing shouts. And then if you do go healing shouts, to top it off by going clerics gear which is horrible for warrior because you only have one group heal (shouts, or banner) is just bad.

The real kicker here is that even as awesome as your condition cleansing is, in real situations you will find that it isn’t that awesome because half of your group will be out of the miniscule range of the shouts/warhorn. How do I know this? Because this is the build I currently run (w/o the lolclerics) and it’s that way in PvE where everyone is confined to a smaller area. Until they massively buff the range of heals and boons (to at least that of offensive attacks imo) this kind of group support will always be less than ideal.

If the leaked notes are correct, the base healing will be 25% higher, and if you go full cleric, I consider 25 stacks of healing power sigil, that left us with 1600*. If you apply that to the formula, that leaves us with 2930 healing per shout. I also consider using healing power food : Bowl of Saffron-Mango Ice Cream.
That leaves us around 3200 healing per shout.

Why go with healing power then? Well, is not just the shouts, is the signet and adrenal health too. Your argument about the range is just a l2p issue, if you want to run support with PUG, it will never be ideal, yet in a more organized setup, it is.

Of course, you can also run healing banners if you care that much about the range, then, going cleric is still a great choice, because regen benefits a lot from healing power.

Also remember that the OP said it is for an organized group. In my experience, the banner is great (I’m just doing simple math here with the shouts, not 100% sure if it will work), but since he will be using the warhorn trait, he will find himself most of the time with regen anyways. I know that banners are really great for their effects, but I dont like the mechanic of banners, having to pick up something on a battle might mean you get CCed while picking it up, or having to run back to pick the banner because the battle moved and then you have to leave your group. In any situation I can not use a banner, I rather not use it.

Seeing the possibility of improved shouts, I decided to give them a try again.

I’ve been running with this.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-sBxg;1NKkN0_47L-60;9;59JT9;13;008-07B3;0CR-4;2ZF18ZF183NQ

It’s got an enormous amount of healing and condition removal built into it, but as others have noted with such a build, it is susceptible to chain cc.

Outside of that though, you can heal your team mates for 2k per shout, keep people locked down, and provide powerful res support (fear me+ high healing power).\

In 1v1 you can use Skull Crack + 100B to do respectable damage(bloodlust really helps). Even if you’re not killing them, they’re most likely not killing you either.

It ain’t perfect. No fast hands really sucks. No stability really sucks. To get one of those you have to give up unsuspecting foe(and most of your damage), which if all you’re after is support, then its not a big deal.

I wish it could work a little better, but it’s still fun.

Angriff.1935:

Seeing the possibility of improved shouts, I decided to give them a try again.

I’ve been running with this.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-sBxg;1NKkN0_47L-60;9;59JT9;13;008-07B3;0CR-4;2ZF18ZF183NQ

It’s got an enormous amount of healing and condition removal built into it, but as others have noted with such a build, it is susceptible to chain cc.

Outside of that though, you can heal your team mates for 2k per shout, keep people locked down, and provide powerful res support (fear me+ high healing power).\

In 1v1 you can use Skull Crack + 100B to do respectable damage(bloodlust really helps). Even if you’re not killing them, they’re most likely not killing you either.

It ain’t perfect. No fast hands really sucks. No stability really sucks. To get one of those you have to give up unsuspecting foe(and most of your damage), which if all you’re after is support, then its not a big deal.

I wish it could work a little better, but it’s still fun.

I’d suggest dropping cleansing ire in favour of last stand. Your condition removal will fall loads though but i personally couldn’t run without stability.

sinzer.4018:

I’d suggest dropping cleansing ire in favour of last stand. Your condition removal will fall loads though but i personally couldn’t run without stability.

Well the first problem I found with that is you get destroyed by necros and engis. The condi removal is good, but just not enough.

The second problem is that you can’t control last stand. It can get used when you don’t need it and with a 90s cooldown it is just not enough uptime to make it feel like its worth it.

On the other hand Cleansing Ire has as low of a cooldown as your burst skills, and lets you outlast most engis and necros(and anything else that thinks it can lay down conditions) which seem to be very plentiful.

Most of the time when I die to CC its when against 2+ opponents. So I try to keep it to 1v1 or stick with a group that I can support.

Like I said it would probably be better to give up unsuspecting foe for last stand(or fast hands) than giving up anything else.

Angriff.1935:

sinzer.4018:

I’d suggest dropping cleansing ire in favour of last stand. Your condition removal will fall loads though but i personally couldn’t run without stability.

Well the first problem I found with that is you get destroyed by necros and engis. The condi removal is good, but just not enough.

The second problem is that you can’t control last stand. It can get used when you don’t need it and with a 90s cooldown it is just not enough uptime to make it feel like its worth it.

On the other hand Cleansing Ire has as low of a cooldown as your burst skills, and lets you outlast most engis and necros(and anything else that thinks it can lay down conditions) which seem to be very plentiful.

Most of the time when I die to CC its when against 2+ opponents. So I try to keep it to 1v1 or stick with a group that I can support.

Like I said it would probably be better to give up unsuspecting foe for last stand(or fast hands) than giving up anything else.

Fair enough, i’ve not run a shout build so i can’t really say much but from my own experiences i’ve found cleansing ire itself just enough condi removal against necros and engis. The fact that you’ve got a shout build i’m assuming you’re using soldier runes for the condi removal. Ofc cleansing ire is better at condi removal imo (6 every 20s as opposed to 4 every 20-24s depending on what shouts) i thought seeing as it’s double sources for condi removal dropping one is a possibility for stability… Personally i’d drop the shouts over dropping cleansing ire anyday, i’ve not gone a day without CI since it was introduced. One of our best traits imo.

Axtozob.4597:

Most ranged weapons are 1200 range. So, basic maths, if you are between the Melee and the Ranged guys with 600 range, you can reach both of them.
And in fact, Ranged guys are not at the max range, one roll back and you are able to reach the ears of everyone.
(again, organization ? No PU, some guildies and a TS, that’s how Support should be played)

Wait, let me get this straight. You’re seriously suggesting that as a warrior you stand out of melee, with no ranged weapon, doing no damage, so that you can hit 2 players with your condition removal? My god, that sounds worse than useless.

I also love the assumption that all the ranged are stacked right on each other instead of on opposite sides of the target. Or since people love WvW so much, on separate targets completely.

Baltzenger.2467:

Yaki.9563:

The new coefficient is 0.9 instead of 0.8. With 1350 heal power (about what full cleric’s is) you’ll heal for 135 more per shout than you do now. Um, yay? Sure, the base is going up, but to hit 3000 it would have to be improved from 1190 per shout to 1785 per shout which isn’t happening. And if it does, more reason to run w/o cleric’s because the relative improvement is even less.

You can do warhorn trait and shout condition removal all without doing healing shouts. And then if you do go healing shouts, to top it off by going clerics gear which is horrible for warrior because you only have one group heal (shouts, or banner) is just bad.

The real kicker here is that even as awesome as your condition cleansing is, in real situations you will find that it isn’t that awesome because half of your group will be out of the miniscule range of the shouts/warhorn. How do I know this? Because this is the build I currently run (w/o the lolclerics) and it’s that way in PvE where everyone is confined to a smaller area. Until they massively buff the range of heals and boons (to at least that of offensive attacks imo) this kind of group support will always be less than ideal.

If the leaked notes are correct, the base healing will be 25% higher, and if you go full cleric, I consider 25 stacks of healing power sigil, that left us with 1600*. If you apply that to the formula, that leaves us with 2930 healing per shout. I also consider using healing power food : Bowl of Saffron-Mango Ice Cream.
That leaves us around 3200 healing per shout.

It’s still not 3200 per shout. You continuously round up and assume max stacks of healing to get to end up several hundred higher than what you’ll really have.

BTW 3000 healing with 600 range every 10 seconds when you offer almost no other utility and your damage is negligible is really not very much. Seriously, a cleric guardian offers almost that much just from one passive heal with double the range (VoR is 250/tick) yet has about 5+ other sources of group healing in addition to far more buffs and utility. Go play one if you want that style. Otherwise you’re just dead weight. Good thing for WvW groups there’s no limit to the number of players so I guess it doesn’t hurt to have 5.5 players instead of 5.

Yaki is the bad faith embodied…

Seriously, can you stop picking the information you want and trait the entire post ?

SUPPORT IS FOR OR-GA-NI-ZED GROUPS, NOT PUG.

Your argument is so awesome that you can say the exact same thing to Guardians. And Guardians are known to be everything but one of the best support/healer. Oh wait…

(And doing a move to cleanse/heal/save the kitten of your mate is a part of the support role, your are not forced to stay doing nothing like a bot. But well, it’s a bit complicated for people who don’t want to do some efforts and improve their play)

I might give shout build a try once they buff the healing for vigorous shout.
But gonna stick to banner regen for now… 8D

http://youtu.be/rqyrd-yZeZ8?t=6s

This is pretty much going to be a big buff in my build. 0/10/30/30/0 Condi Warrior(Apot Gear and celestial mix). Pretty flexible, and I get to abuse healing Signet, Adrenal health and Vigorous shouts. I can also take Dogged march for the short term Regen. I take Warhorn for support, though if I don’t want to support anymore I can easily switch it out for Dual swords and replace the warhorn trait with Shrug it off. Paired with Soldier runes, Shake it off and Shrug it off, wipe 2 Conditions each and heal for over 2k, and with Lung Capacity moving down, all my shouts become shorter, even when the Shouts themselves are low CD. i can still kill people pretty easy with good access to burns and bleeds and depending if i want more Damage torment through Dual Swords. If I face someone without high CC or a theif i can switch to spiked armor which also is another form of on top of Condition damage. Get paired with a guardian and you can’t die loololol.

Angriff’s build would be pretty good if he replaced Cleasing Ire with Last Stand. Basically it’s good ol’ Skullcracker with shouts. Less DPS but better team support. I’d go one step further and add in a Warhorn.

Here’s one I’m working on…

This would probably be pretty good in PvE/WvW as well. Your crit chance would still be pretty good because of 100% Fury, 49% with a sword and with the minor Critical Burst Trait even Combustive Shot will crit fairly frequently as well. Force them to stand in the flames and if they don’t you’ll regen and heal. You can also combo with Savage Leap and Call to Arms so squeeze out some more might and bonus DPS from burning.

You’ll also be frequently reducing their damage with Weakness in addition to having many dodges with both Sigils of Energy and Vigor. I really enjoy making builds that find ways to make up for the weaknesses of the gear. I also feel like it’s got a very commander like feeling to it which is always cool.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Angriff’s build would be pretty good if he replaced Cleasing Ire with Last Stand. Basically it’s good ol’ Skullcracker with shouts. Less DPS but better team support. I’d go one step further and add in a Warhorn.

Here’s one I’m working on…

This would probably be pretty good in PvE/WvW as well. Your crit chance would still be pretty good because of 100% Fury, 49% with a sword and with the minor Critical Burst Trait even Combustive Shot will crit fairly frequently as well. Force them to stand in the flames and if they don’t you’ll regen and heal. You can also combo with Savage Leap and Call to Arms so squeeze out some more might and bonus DPS from burning.

You’ll also be frequently reducing their damage with Weakness in addition to having many dodges with both Sigils of Energy and Vigor. I really enjoy making builds that find ways to make up for the weaknesses of the gear. I also feel like it’s got a very commander like feeling to it which is always cool.

I was thinking about the warhorn seeing that Lung Capacity is moving to adept, and becoming a super support buff machine.

I opted the way I did because I’m using it for soloq so I make my builds a little more self centered and sufficient. I feel strange taking out the shield though as it buys so much time and it provides a gap closer for the mace. If I had a team I might opt for the WH.

I’ll probably try something similar to your bow build next, shouts are fun

Yaki.9563:

Healing shouts don’t heal for much. The buff is miniscule.

You’re cray cray.

Shouts heal for about 2k.

Build some healing power, eh?

the buff is huge for warhorn / shout builds:

- 25% increased base healing
- scaling increased about 15%
- lung capacity finally usefull with warhorn – another 20%.

so make this like a 50% buff to shout builds using traited warhorn.