Guild Wars 2

Hi all,

title says it all i think.
Wanted to get back into sPvP and since haven’t played since april,
I guess my rating has tanked enough to play some speccs that aren’t quite meta
but fun nonetheless.

I was thinking of:
sw/wh – m/sh banner 2/0/6/6/0 with melandru and cleric (settler?) or
shouts 0/0/?/6/3?.

What’s best suited for meta atm?

Anas Tarcis is running 10463 atm with shoutheal and converting cond into boons with warhorn

Forgive my ignorance but who is that? Nvm, googled it.
Well his specc is 15 points worth – that’s one too many.

He’s Nr.#1 Warrior in NA and probably Nr.#1 in the leaderboards
Year my mistake only 3 in disc.
Watch out his stream on twitch theres a link to his build and some gameplay

Yeah thanks for pinting me in that direction. I’m watching now but god, that looks dull.
I was actually looking for something like midbunker with lots of group heal.
His specc is more of a roamer/all around.

As a bunker you are roming. A bunker who is standing in the mid 100% of the time is a bad bunker

Bunker Warrior that i’ve tried was 2/0/6/6/0 banner with S/W and M/S with Mercy runes. I was a ress God

Hi I am NA leaderboard top 100 warrior and also have played plenty of shout builds so far. Honestly, i also played guardian bunker as well, i can definitely say that warrior bunker is worse than guardian bunker if you compare bunking abilities of them. First of all, healing amount guardian is much higher than warrior (almost 2 times higher per 96sec interval).2ndly, boons, guardian has plenty of defensive boons such as stability, protection and aegis, however, if you go shout line of warrior you cant grant stability, also have no aegis or protection unless your warhorn only convert conds into thems: which mostly will not happen. so play guardian bunker, if you wanna be professional bunker, unless you are trolling as warrior bunker.

I’m going to give an in-depth overview of my thoughts on this subject.

Over the last few weeks I’ve attempted different methods of ‘bunker’ warrior including shouts / immunities / regen styles. Hopefully I can pass on some of my findings and experiences in a coherent and constructive manner.

Bunkering as a reference of TIME:
If your job as a bunker is to hold a point for an extended period of time OR play the field / support your teammates, then the amount of time by YOURSELF is the most critically important portion of this discussion.

The inherent goal of the bunker is to hold more than 1 opponent at a time.
If you find yourself being easily trained down in a 1vX scenario, then it’s a clear indicator that your bunker build is not put together properly. The reason this is important is you can allow your team to outnumber (+1ing) points around the field while still maintaining a capture point and staying alive.

Bunkering as a reference of SUPPORT:
If your job is to bunker a point during a TEAMFIGHT, generally making you a ROAMING BUNKER then the ability to help your teammates quickly becomes incredibly important. The reference of time no longer matters since the fights you are in often quickly change. Your job turns into – “how can I support my team, while holding a point, but quickly transfer to a different fight to do more of the same?”

Bunker Builds: Regen vs. Shout Healing. — The Numbers
——————————————————————————-
Using a Clerics amulet as a standard reference point (932 healing power)

Shout Healing = 2319 HP per shout, Lowest CD = 20 seconds (20, 20, 24 fastest you can be, 3 utilities). This equates to 116hps (per 20 seconds of shouts).
Total HP/s if running FGJ, SIO, OMM = 328.6HP/s — 3 Utilities

Regen = 246hp/s — 1 Utility

What does this mean?
——————————————————————————-
Over a 20 second period you regen more with 3 Shouts than Banner Regen.
However, you give up two utilities including stability (which as a bunker is incredibly important).

If you drop one shout and grab stability, now Regen heals you more over a 20 second period.

My thoughts and opinion, just based on the numbers:
——————————————————————————-
Regen healing is better. Why? Because it only takes 1 utility to get 75% of the equivalent healing. Now you can run Zerker Stance or Endure pain. Or maybe double stability? These options let you avoid burst damage and prolong a bunkers staying power.

There are obviously other factors, shouts can remove conditions. Yet with Banner healing you could potentially run Mercy runes for much faster ress’s than Shouts.

Other benefits:
Regen stacks to such high numbers that teammates can effectively peel off and still get 20-30 seconds of regen.

Regen has an AOE field thats 50% larger than Shouts.

This is all opinion with some numbers, but opinions are opinions
——————————————————————————-
Some people like shouts for the healing and the condi removal. That’s fine, it’s what works for them. I’m a Software Developer, I work by the numbers and trial / error. These are my findings and I hope they were useful to you.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQJASTjMdUGaVIefQHagqgC7iHA6Oi0ZwH0CA-TZxGwAAOCAMLDE4BAwa/BCXCAA

Shout healing builds can get regen from dogged march, converting poison, other players, even runes – on banner builds regen is all you get. Also discarding the utilities as heal-only isnt proper – fury, might, stun break, condi cleanse, adrenaline generation – all included.

Both ways have advantages. What Defektive is saying is that if you need to stay on a point solo, banner bunker is probably better, as you will have less ways to acquire regen if you are alone (dogged march is little uptime and you may not want to pick it if you go bunker warrior, converting poison is random, there are better runes then regen, etc).

Honestly though. In every way, a guardian does a better job at bunkering. Hell, even an elementalist does it better. Both have better support options too.

So my question would be, if not for fun, why would one bunker with a warrior to start with?

Steelo.4597:

Shout healing builds can get regen from dogged march, converting poison, other players, even runes – on banner builds regen is all you get. Also discarding the utilities as heal-only isnt proper – fury, might, stun break, condi cleanse, adrenaline generation – all included.

Cygnus summed it up nicely.

Dogged march is essentially a poor mans regen proc with a 60% downtime (10sec icd if memory serves). That’s assuming your crippled etc every 10 seconds like clockwork.

Gaining regen from other sources will primarily come from eles or guardians, at which point having a bunker warrior seems rather futile.

With two utility slots available, you can also get multiple stun breaks, a fear, but more importantly immunities. If 3 people dog pile on you, you will get trained down quickly or lose the cap.

Precision banner is amazing for your team, and vit/toighness banner lets you make more interesting build choices (celestial suddenly becomes tanky).

What I’m trying to say is your margin for error improves and your ability to be flexible increases.

Fair point, i just wanted to mention that there is some regen in the shout healing aswell. Since i dont play spvp i’m wondering – how do you deal with conditions in that banner bunker build? In WvW i have to stack every single cleanse available to be able to go toe-to-toe with a necro / condi engi and thats with trooper runes / shout healing – also making use of both condi-remove sigils – and its JUST enough. Is this condi spam less of a problem in spvp or how do you get by with the lack of condi removal (compared to shouts)?

Alot of it is preventative, knowing when a condi burst is coming and using zerker stance as a very crude example.

The last few days I’ve dropped cleansing ire entirely and have begun running warhorn/brawlers recovery and purity/generosity sigils.

The ability to break a fear chain before it starts is amazing, and when a condi burst occurs warhorn handles 70 percent of the initial set and weapon swaps do the rest.

I’ve moved away from reactive condi removal that’s tied to me landing an F1 and I’ve been seeing some great results

Edit: Meant cleansing ire

Cygnus.6903:

So my question would be, if not for fun, why would one bunker with a warrior to start with?

You’ve got part of the answer in your question. Bunker warrior is played with a different style than guardian or elementalist bunkers. Some, including myself, prefer that style.

Sometimes it’s not about the numbers, and is just about what fits best with the player.

I know one guy called “The Mercy Goddess” who has been shout bunker warrior from the early era of this game’s release upto recent. basically 0/0/5/6/3 trait with settler amulet, sword-warhorn and longbow, as well as battle standard banner as elite skill. his highest leaderboard rank he have hit so far was top 4 (with only this shout bunker build, not with other builds) so i think you can use this build with trust.

Any high level player will say the same thing. Leaderboards dont matter, generally incorrect perception of the meta or whose really doing the best.

Defektive.7283:

snip

Would you mind sharing your complete build?
I’m having trouble chosing weapons since I know it’s best to use LB but sw/wh is kind of a must-have and I’m somehow dead set on having mace/shield as my second set since -not only in xv1 but especially in 1v1- the daze is incredibly useful.
(don’t even get me started on stomp denials in groupfights)
It has a stun to temporarily take out enemies (or a second stomp interrupt) and the block is basically invuln. for 3seconds which helps tremendously in tanking outnumnered bursts.

Some other questions: Should I really opt for mercy runes? (assuming I go banner heal)
I was using melandru for banner and soldier for shouts.
Cleric or Settler? From what I gather cleric is better for regen, settler is better for shouts, right?
What about actual banners? When does DR kick in? I was using defense banner for a while but switched to tactics without noticing major differences, plus regen doesn’t quite benefit from healingpower as much as shouts IIRC (?)
Are my rune choices okay?
Is rousing resilience worth it if I take it with 1 stability and shake it off but at the cost of fast hands?
Cleasing ire (considering both mace and sword are hard to land so is it better to just neglect adrenaline completely in this build?) or last stand? Shield master or dogged march? (considering i already have regen, so just for less movement impairing which should be taken care of by WH and shake it off anyway)

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-sF-Cx;0NKVL0_4cLVQ0;9;6TT9;6C48A2;0ZwlFW;1Uwl6Uwl63NY

Thanks for your input everyone.

All in all I’m going to give banners a shot tomorrow (11pm in EU atm)
and see what kind of builds I encounter. In my experience shouts are better against condi and short, high burst as well as 1v1 while banners are more useful in groupfights
and against long sustained damage. But that’s just what I remember from last time playing, which was even befor april feature pack.

Cygnus.6903:

So my question would be, if not for fun, why would one bunker with a warrior to start with?

I like being tanky and supporting my group but dislike guardians; staff bunker looks just so incredibly dull and a bit too defensive for my taste. War bunker seemed like exactly what I wanted to play. Active gameplay and offensive support through a lot of immob, stun and daze while being really tanky.
Denying stomps by continously chaining cc is really satisfying and more than once did I turn a match through a warbanner in a critical teamfight.
(Tears of raging enemies are soo delicious!)

Crovax.7854:

Defektive.7283:

snip

Would you mind sharing your complete build?
I’m having trouble chosing weapons since I know it’s best to use LB but sw/wh is kind of a must-have and I’m somehow dead set on having mace/shield as my second set since -not only in xv1 but especially in 1v1- the daze is incredibly useful.
(don’t even get me started on stomp denials in groupfights)
It has a stun to temporarily take out enemies (or a second stomp interrupt) and the block is basically invuln. for 3seconds which helps tremendously in tanking outnumnered bursts.

Some other questions: Should I really opt for mercy runes? (assuming I go banner heal)
I was using melandru for banner and soldier for shouts.
Cleric or Settler? From what I gather cleric is better for regen, settler is better for shouts, right?
What about actual banners? When does DR kick in? I was using defense banner for a while but switched to tactics without noticing major differences, plus regen doesn’t quite benefit from healingpower as much as shouts IIRC (?)
Are my rune choices okay?
Is rousing resilience worth it if I take it with 1 stability and shake it off but at the cost of fast hands?
Cleasing ire (considering both mace and sword are hard to land so is it better to just neglect adrenaline completely in this build?) or last stand? Shield master or dogged march? (considering i already have regen, so just for less movement impairing which should be taken care of by WH and shake it off anyway)

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-sF-Cx;0NKVL0_4cLVQ0;9;6TT9;6C48A2;0ZwlFW;1Uwl6Uwl63NY

Thanks for your input everyone.

All in all I’m going to give banners a shot tomorrow (11pm in EU atm)
and see what kind of builds I encounter. In my experience shouts are better against condi and short, high burst as well as 1v1 while banners are more useful in groupfights
and against long sustained damage. But that’s just what I remember from last time playing, which was even befor april feature pack.

Cygnus.6903:

So my question would be, if not for fun, why would one bunker with a warrior to start with?

I like being tanky and supporting my group but dislike guardians; staff bunker looks just so incredibly dull and a bit too defensive for my taste. War bunker seemed like exactly what I wanted to play. Active gameplay and offensive support through a lot of immob, stun and daze while being really tanky.
Denying stomps by continously chaining cc is really satisfying and more than once did I turn a match through a warbanner in a critical teamfight.
(Tears of raging enemies are soo delicious!)

Something more like this:
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-sF-t;1NKVL0e4gLVQ0;9;6OTE;418-48A4;0Sw06X;1TsW6TsW63NY

Things you can switch out – Swap Warhorn / Shield depending on team your fighting (more engis/necros – use warhorn, thiefs/mesmers – use shield)

Same goes for talents, you can drop quick breathing for leg specialist for easier stun setups.

I like to bring the Toughness/Vitality banner over percision simply because my team likes to run 3-4 zerkers. Basically they do a ton of damage as is, adding a little bit ontop won’t help as much. But extra HP/Toughness for you and them beefs everyone up a tad.

Been running x/x/4/6/x variations a lot lately with tremendous success.

Basically Soldiers + Shouts + Warhorn make condition classes cry.

i used to run shouts but i just find even buried in conditions that banner just seems to heal more.

if you’re feeling especially trollish and there is no source of poison around you can use dolyak runes and literally just stand there while someone hits away at you doing no damage XD

i think i will give shouts another go next time i play, but banner just seems to keep me up longer.

Personally I prefer banners, all you need is 1 leaving you with 2 free utility slots. Shouts don’t give any stability which is always a problem.

Julie Yann.5379:

Personally I prefer banners, all you need is 1 leaving you with 2 free utility slots. Shouts don’t give any stability which is always a problem.

I sometimes greatly miss the stability. However, shoutheal allows you to constantly cleanse Conditions off everyone. I didn’t like shouts at all at first, but really am digging the fact I can basically make some of these cheesy conditions builds next to worthless.

I say try each and see what you prefer.

Lately my friend and I have been playing a pair of shoutheals and its pretty funny pushing far and watching the other team struggle to dislodge us. Pretty high win % when together too.

As far a bunkering in spvp i would personally go guardian.

But I use to run a banner build which i really liked. Normally took 4 or more to kill me. Generally when I did die it was to over 100k damage in conditions.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQNAneSjMd0CaBIOeQHagfABdsW5MFIdxlZB-TJRDwAOeCAaLDA4UAoa/BA

I’m comfortable with shoutheals /might stacking in pvp and shoutheals/lust stacking in wvw.

Banner is superior on paper, but I like the freedom team cleanse shoutheals give on Trooper.

Use 2 shouts and banner of tactics (compassionate banner )

Teeheheheheheehe