Guild Wars 2

We’re gonna get boned, fellow Warriors. We can’t swing a single of our weapons without hitting multiple enemies at once.

*Poor-No tolerable support options.

*Poor-simi-tolerable ranged options.

Seem like a balanced trade off.

Seriously, if Anet mainly nerfs big cannons like Meteor Shower along with the blatantly op stuff like hundred blades, I don’t really mind. Hammers from Guardian and Warrior could take a slight nerf too.

Actually I’m not all that concerned about the Warriors or Eles this patch. They still got loads of potential. The breaking point will be how Anet handles the Necros and whether Thieves get toned down at some points OR the nerfed classes get something in exchange to match the changes.

Are you being serious? Please elaborate on how the warrior hammer
needs a slight nerf. I must be missing something because the weapon
has low aoe, no movement abilities except the F1, and is rarely used.

How is Hundred Blades overpowered? It is a one-trick pony that works once in a blue moon.

Hundred blades? Maybe go look outside PvP for once. Against mobs, it’s THE Skill you’d want to use. It hits like a truck and is on an 8(!) second cooldown.
I’m not talking about cutting down the skill itself, I’m talking about making it less spam-able. For pvp it will hardly matter. 100blades is more of a finisher once you got your opponent knocked down, immobilized or crippled and out of endurance etc.

Let’s just think about the following: What if 100Blades was on 15 sec cd? Would GS be unplayable? No, it would still hit like a truck but we wouldn’t see 95% of warriors running around with a GS just cause it can theoretically out-dps most weapons out there with a large AoE to boot while giving a ton of mobility, too.

Even more, let’s just think about it… Just theoretically… About swapping 100Blades and Arcing Slice.
GS would finally have a burst skill to be proud of while arcing slice would see actual use past lev 20+. In that case, the cooldown would be 10 seconds, 8’ish, when traited but it would need sufficient adrenaline supply. Also slightly less spammy than it’s now. And certainly not as much face-tank-value as you’d have to deplete your adrenaline, thus dropping your damage for a short while.

About the hammer, it’s nothing big, really, I just always felt like the AoE was a tad bit(maybe 10%) too big.
However, that one is debatable, as my view is probably warped by the fact I play an Asura and the AoE just looks ridiculously large in comparison.

Well at least admitted your reasoning. Trust me, the AOE on hammer
is nothing (check your combat logs). If anything they need to put
a movement ability on hammer (GS has two) and increase the AOE.

Just to clarify, check this quote from Matt Witter on the AoE rebalancing:

There are a few different knobs we can turn in regards to AoE some of the bigger ones being:
Radius of the AoE
Frequency of the AoE Damage
Damage of the AoE
Max Targets of the AoE

Currently, some players causing the AoE are able to do more damage to one person while also controlling a portion of the field, compared to a player with single target damage.
In our balance discussions we always look at what these changes could do to PvE as well as PvP. Any changes we make will undergo a lot of testing, both internal and by our trusted alpha team. It is important to understand that we are not doing a blanket nerf to all AE’s or a dramatic adjustment of the damage AoE’s can do. There may be some cases where players can build for AoE damage, but are just not viable or other cases where AoE is clearly the dominate way to build, and as such the other builds get left on the side lines. Its these classes/builds that we are concerned about.

They’re talking mostly about rebalancing the AoE skills that can be laid down on the battlefield and act on their own while the player is able to continue attacking.

Hundred Blades only hits 3 targets. That’s as many as any melee chain attack. If you consider that an AoE you’d have to consider all melee attack chains from all players AoEs. It’s not getting a nerf unless they do an ‘across the board’ damage nerf, and I don’t think anything of that nature would be all that large.

These guys want to rebalance the attacks like Meteor Shower, Barrage, Feedback, etc. The skills that do tons of damage/control and allow the player to continue mashing buttons. They even mentioned siege weapons briefly over twitch. I think Arrow Carts are due for a nerf as well.

As of right now, go to WvW and check any attacking/defending situation. Its just a cluster fk of AoEs laid down while players are continuing to be picked off by those casting the AoEs. There’s a massive section of denial and there’s absolutely no risk involved for creating it. It has to change.

I would advocate forcing players to channel most of those within line of sight…but that’s just me.

AoE is not HB.. That is cleave ability.

AoE change would really only impact our longbow f1

AoE stands for Area of Effect.

Cleave is a form of Area of Effect.

So if you wanna get technical, 99% of all our weapon abilities are AoEs. Only a few such as Savage Leap on the Sword are strictly single target.

Which is why, as a Warrior, this piece of news worries me greatly.

Warrior isn’t going to get nerfed. The biggest offenders are the ranged gtAoEs like Wells, Marks, Traps, Cluster Bomb, and to a lesser extent Grenades and a handful of Ele skills.

AoE is on the bow. Cleave and AoE are TWO different mechanics and not the same thing.

Lets all avoid the chicken little syndrome please, folks.

Thank you Redscope, I was going to link the same post.

I highly doubt this will hurt the Warrior.

naphack.9346:

Hundred blades? Maybe go look outside PvP for once. Against mobs, it’s THE Skill you’d want to use. It hits like a truck and is on an 8(!) second cooldown.
I’m not talking about cutting down the skill itself, I’m talking about making it less spam-able. For pvp it will hardly matter. 100blades is more of a finisher once you got your opponent knocked down, immobilized or crippled and out of endurance etc.

Let’s just think about the following: What if 100Blades was on 15 sec cd? Would GS be unplayable? No, it would still hit like a truck but we wouldn’t see 95% of warriors running around with a GS just cause it can theoretically out-dps most weapons out there with a large AoE to boot while giving a ton of mobility, too.

Even more, let’s just think about it… Just theoretically… About swapping 100Blades and Arcing Slice.
GS would finally have a burst skill to be proud of while arcing slice would see actual use past lev 20+. In that case, the cooldown would be 10 seconds, 8’ish, when traited but it would need sufficient adrenaline supply. Also slightly less spammy than it’s now. And certainly not as much face-tank-value as you’d have to deplete your adrenaline, thus dropping your damage for a short while.

About the hammer, it’s nothing big, really, I just always felt like the AoE was a tad bit(maybe 10%) too big.
However, that one is debatable, as my view is probably warped by the fact I play an Asura and the AoE just looks ridiculously large in comparison.

I have serious doubts about that arcing slice theory of yours. Even if they did swap them around no one would use arcing slice because it’s terrible. It’s bad as burst skill and it would be just as bad as a button skill. It has terrible damage and the one boon warriors aren’t short on is fury.

Oglaf.1074:

AoE stands for Area of Effect.

Cleave is a form of Area of Effect.

So if you wanna get technical, 99% of all our weapon abilities are AoEs. Only a few such as Savage Leap on the Sword are strictly single target.

Which is why, as a Warrior, this piece of news worries me greatly.

Same here.

mhhh…
i’m worried too because looking back i’m not sure if the devs are aware of the state the warrior class is currently in, in terms of spvp.
but since they started to balance skills seperately for pvp and pve in some cases now…
guess we can still hope for the best

Ill be surprised if HB isn’t nerfed in PvE, very surprised.

Yeah, HB is definitely a cleave ability and not an AoE. If you consider that an AoE then every melee attack would pretty much be an “AoE”. I feel its more of the ground targeted multiple enemy attacks (meteor shower, the ranger arrow rain, a bunch of the warrior long bow attacks.) Not saying that HB isnt extremely powerful, just that I dont think it is an AoE attack.

For the last time, Cleave is a form of AoE. Anything that hits more than one target is by definition AoE.

HB Aoe… Ok ok now stop trolling plz. Since when a melee atack can be considered aoe? Oh and a warrior skill doing damage.. how dare you. Why did u call yourselfs warrior’s? Oh w8…

Knox.3748:

Since when a melee atack can be considered aoe?.

…when it hits multiple people?

Seriously now, people. Seriously.

ok im not gonna start a discussion here. Im just gonna say this : you dont know if they will nerf the aoe or if they will change the aoe damage system so i think this topics are useless. Then again, this forum is full of them so whatever.

naphack, i dont really know what to tell you. “Let’s just think about the following: What if 100Blades was on 15 sec cd? Would GS be unplayable? No, it would still hit like a truck but we wouldn’t see 95% of warriors running around with a GS just cause it can theoretically out-dps most weapons out there with a large AoE to boot while giving a ton of mobility, too.” I think of this and i think that you must be joking. HB is the signature of GS, is the CD is increased no reason to use a GS. Fact is, to use HB u must stand still. So i guess your just a pve lover because if you do some pvp you will notice that you can evade HB just taking one step back. “Bulls Charge”? “Stun Breaker” Who cares if he does 500k dmg to a rabbit? You just failed to do something there, i dont know what, but you failed. If you are upset that you cant hit as much as an Warrior then guess what, warrior is the heavy damage of this game. Nothing you will say will change that. And if you fail on dodging HB then its not the Warriors or the skill fault, its yours for doing too much pve.

Well, truth be told, the Forceful Greatsword trait is just a big part of what makes Greatsword so… great, not only Hundred Blades.

As a necro, i find the warrior point blank aoe damage with your melee weapons to be acceptable, i am being hit/slashed/smashed in giant slabs of metal so i do expect it to hurt. Now the ranged piercing nuke from rifle should be looked at though, and really that might be the only thing that should be looked into for aoe on you side.

I know your class has issues in wvwvw and tpvp getting within range or staying in range and this should be looked as a far trade off because many times you just cant get close enough quickly or stay close enough to get the job done.

I don’t think the devs are going to nerf cleave AoE because its not really the problem. The nerfs to AoE are probably more focused on the dozens of little red circles you find littering the ground in WvW. I could be wrong but I’ve never really seen anybody complain about warriors suicidally rushing the enemy team to use his cleaves.

So stay out of the little red circles :P

Just to be simple:

AOE = 5targets max
HB = 3targets max
HB is not AOE.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Just to be simple:

AOE = 5targets max
HB = 3targets max
HB is not AOE.

How is the very basic concept of AoE so tough for you people to grasp?

lol

Hi everyone,

Please remember that the team has not yet stated what abilities or how are they going to be changed. You might get a glad surprise!

Anyway, regarding the issue of “what is considered AoE and what not” you might find this GW2 Wikia article interesting. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/AoE

Again, please relax and enjoy the game. Thanks for your understanding.

Moderator.1462:

You might get a glad surprise!

Aw man, throw us a bone here! You’ve got me on the edge of my seat now…

Moderator.1462:

Hi everyone,

Please remember that the team has not yet stated what abilities or how are they going to be changed. You might get a glad surprise!

Anyway, regarding the issue of “what is considered AoE and what not” you might find this GW2 Wikia article interesting. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/AoE

Again, please relax and enjoy the game. Thanks for your understanding.

Thanks for the update! And the link that helps with clarification

Uh huh…that’s not exactly comforting:

“Area effect mechanics have multiple possible types. For example, most melee attacks made with a sword (or larger weapons) will also hit up to 2 other (3 in total) foes if they are close enough to actual target of attack.”

So just going by those sentences alone, according to the wiki our melee attacks are considered aoe.

That’s what I’ve been saying all along, people!

>_>

But Cleave “AoE” isn’t really your traditional AoE. When I think AoE I tend to think of wells, nades, mines, and the like. While melee swings may be by definition AoE I don’t think that’s the target of these updates, at least I would hope not. Any significant nerf to skills like 100b runs the risk of servery hampering our usefulness in groups. Even in PvE using it runs a heavy risk. On basic mobs in the world while leveling up it may be useful but does it really break the game? I don’t think so. In dungeons, to use 100b and do said damage means being up close and personal. It may deal more damage than a typical ele or necro AoE, but it hits fewer targets and as I said requires them to be close to a mob that could easily down them especially some melee based bosses. I sometimes run full berserkers and while I deal a good amount of damage, making sure you don’t get focused and downed constantly you have to be careful.

fellyn.5083:

Uh huh…that’s not exactly comforting:

“Area effect mechanics have multiple possible types. For example, most melee attacks made with a sword (or larger weapons) will also hit up to 2 other (3 in total) foes if they are close enough to actual target of attack.”

So just going by those sentences alone, according to the wiki our melee attacks are considered aoe.

At least we now know.
Its much better than not knowing and being shocked at getting nerfed, now we can expect it, or at least not be as surprised.

Redscope hit it on the head, surprised everyone just ignored their post.

Like they said, do wvw and what’s the main attack people spam? ranged aoe and fire and forget aoe. You won’t ever hear people complaining because the defenders had 5 warriors that ran out and started spamming melee aoe. Ever.

In structured pvp aoe is also great for keeping enemies off nodes or punishing them for staying and contesting. The only time warrior aoe is going to be an issue outside of our longbow adrenaline is when someone is trying to revive an ally during hundred blades or any other strong cleave we have.

I doubt they think that using cleave damage intelligently on a reviver and revivee is an issue. If they do then, they’re even more out of touch with their game than people have said.

TheMerc.4850:

I doubt they think that using cleave damage intelligently on a reviver and revivee is an issue. If they do then, they’re even more out of touch with their game than people have said.

Not only that, but they’ve also made it a point to explain time and again that the AoEs being looked at are the ones which involve little-to-no risk to the player.

Standing within melee range of the target is about as risky as you can get.

I’m not worried about a melee PBAoE “cleave” nerf.

Well, there are still some odd skills here and there that technically fits into what they could classify as “problem AoE”.

Like Earth Shaker on the Hammer.

It’s targeted after all.

Oglaf.1074:

Well, there are still some odd skills here and there that technically fits into what they could classify as “problem AoE”.

Like Earth Shaker on the Hammer.

It’s targeted after all.

I would agree that some skills on the warrior may need to be looked at. Probably not Earthshaker but Combustive Shot comes to mind. The amount of burning I can stack on a target with that skill (by shooting through the field) is rather absurd to be able to do on my own.

That’s something I think needs a looking-over on its own time. Classes and weapon sets that can self-combo.

Redscope.6215:

Oglaf.1074:

Well, there are still some odd skills here and there that technically fits into what they could classify as “problem AoE”.

Like Earth Shaker on the Hammer.

It’s targeted after all.

I would agree that some skills on the warrior may need to be looked at. Probably not Earthshaker but Combustive Shot comes to mind. The amount of burning I can stack on a target with that skill (by shooting through the field) is rather absurd to be able to do on my own.

That’s something I think needs a looking-over on its own time. Classes and weapon sets that can self-combo.

Arcing Arrow and Combustive shot are actually very strong skills, the warriors only long range AOE abilities. If they nerf those I hope it’s only the # of targets, because if they take away the damage or shirnk the radius that pretty much bones our only means of applying ranged pressure in WvW.

YojimboJones.6243:

Redscope.6215:

Oglaf.1074:

Well, there are still some odd skills here and there that technically fits into what they could classify as “problem AoE”.

Like Earth Shaker on the Hammer.

It’s targeted after all.

I would agree that some skills on the warrior may need to be looked at. Probably not Earthshaker but Combustive Shot comes to mind. The amount of burning I can stack on a target with that skill (by shooting through the field) is rather absurd to be able to do on my own.

That’s something I think needs a looking-over on its own time. Classes and weapon sets that can self-combo.

Arcing Arrow and Combustive shot are actually very strong skills, the warriors only long range AOE abilities. If they nerf those I hope it’s only the # of targets, because if they take away the damage or shirnk the radius that pretty much bones our only means of applying ranged pressure in WvW.

Well if there was an overall reduction in AoE radius for ground-targeted AoEs, I wouldn’t expect Combustive Shot to be given any exceptions. That radius, along with many others, is far too large.

Yes it would hamper the Warrior’s capability to place ranged AoE denial on the battlefield, but if they hamper others in the same way then it would be a comparatively even reduction.

Besides that fact, the Warrior is a class stated to have viable but significantly less options for ranged pressure. They, like the Guardian, are a mostly melee-focused class.

naphack.9346:

along with the blatantly op stuff like hundred blades

Hundred blades isn’t OP; hundred blades + frenzy is OP.

TheMerc.4850:

If they do then, they’re even more out of touch with their game than people have said.

They’re quite out of touch already.

Thunderbrew.7034:

Are you being serious? Please elaborate on how the warrior hammer
needs a slight nerf. I must be missing something because the weapon
has low aoe, no movement abilities except the F1, and is rarely used.

slow attack: check
low damage: check
no movement: check
enemy can just dodge or run away: check
rarely used: check

how does hammer need a nerf again? it needs major buffing to bring it up to par with GS and Axe

Ansultares.1567:

naphack.9346:

along with the blatantly op stuff like hundred blades

Hundred blades isn’t OP; hundred blades + frenzy is OP.

Not really, considering the cooldown on Frenzy.

I mean, you*might* – MIGHT get a kill once Frenzy is off cooldown, but when it isn’t?

Ansultares.1567

Hundred blades isn’t OP; hundred blades + frenzy is OP.

Actually even with Frenzy, HB is still not all that powerful. You have to couple it with CC first. So it would have to go Frenzy+HB+Bull’s Charge or Throw Bolas.

Even then, stunbreaker, stun warrior, dead warrior, /laugh.

I’ve got a “Frenzy+HB” build. I use Frenzy to break the Bull’s Charge, roll behind the warrior, whirlwind, dead warrior, /laugh.

You want to know why Frenzy+HB is not OP? … +50% incoming damage.

Everyone’s quickness buff should be +50% incoming damage; with the exception of the mesmer elite because you don’t have a choice when he puts it on you.

fellyn.5083:

naphack.9346:

Hundred blades? Maybe go look outside PvP for once. Against mobs, it’s THE Skill you’d want to use. It hits like a truck and is on an 8(!) second cooldown.
I’m not talking about cutting down the skill itself, I’m talking about making it less spam-able. For pvp it will hardly matter. 100blades is more of a finisher once you got your opponent knocked down, immobilized or crippled and out of endurance etc.

Let’s just think about the following: What if 100Blades was on 15 sec cd? Would GS be unplayable? No, it would still hit like a truck but we wouldn’t see 95% of warriors running around with a GS just cause it can theoretically out-dps most weapons out there with a large AoE to boot while giving a ton of mobility, too.

Even more, let’s just think about it… Just theoretically… About swapping 100Blades and Arcing Slice.
GS would finally have a burst skill to be proud of while arcing slice would see actual use past lev 20+. In that case, the cooldown would be 10 seconds, 8’ish, when traited but it would need sufficient adrenaline supply. Also slightly less spammy than it’s now. And certainly not as much face-tank-value as you’d have to deplete your adrenaline, thus dropping your damage for a short while.

About the hammer, it’s nothing big, really, I just always felt like the AoE was a tad bit(maybe 10%) too big.
However, that one is debatable, as my view is probably warped by the fact I play an Asura and the AoE just looks ridiculously large in comparison.

I have serious doubts about that arcing slice theory of yours. Even if they did swap them around no one would use arcing slice because it’s terrible. It’s bad as burst skill and it would be just as bad as a button skill. It has terrible damage and the one boon warriors aren’t short on is fury.

Oglaf.1074:

AoE stands for Area of Effect.

Cleave is a form of Area of Effect.

So if you wanna get technical, 99% of all our weapon abilities are AoEs. Only a few such as Savage Leap on the Sword are strictly single target.

Which is why, as a Warrior, this piece of news worries me greatly.

Same here.

Technically there is no reason not to use Arcing Slice. During damage dealing, when HB is on cd chances are you’ll use Whirlwind and Rush and a few of the 1 skill. I’ve managed 7k to 8k crits on Arcing Slice before, primarily due to the incredibly easy might stacking that Warriors have. Not using a glass cannon build, that damage drops down to about 5k at most. Which is still better than the damage 1 does. You don’t have perma fury with a greatsword. There WILL be, a few seconds of no fury. Arcing Slice is essentially free when considering the fact that you’ll be using the 1 skill a lot more by skipping it. Your logic essentially states that it isn’t worth using because it isn’t great. Your skills don’t exactly go on a long global cooldown when using them, so why not use it and do more damage?

Also, from my testing, the damage doesn’t seem to increase with multiple bars of adrenaline so getting it off quickly with one bar for the extra damage is nice. Personally I use it to lessen the necessity of hundred blades, primarily in pvp. Getting a 5k crit with Arcing Slice after getting high might stacks is definitely great and lessens the necessity of having to get off a HB on the person.

And I HIGHLY doubt Anet is going to nerf our abilities. Cleave attacks aren’t getting nerfed, because then Anet would be nerfing all melee across the board. Cleave is essentially a built in mechanism of melee due to the combat system in this game. Warriors don’t have any super aoe that does more damage than single target attacks or cleaves that need nerfing, which is what anet is referring to. It’s impossible to avoid cleaving if you’re melee, so it doesn’t make sense for anet to be looking at melee as a part of the AoE problem.

That’s all fine and dandy but usually the traits you’re using with a greatsword mean you won’t want to be spending your adrenaline.

Give it a cleave affect or something then it might be useful but nothing anyone can say will convince me arcing slice is worth using as it is now.

Alasteir.7031:

Technically there is no reason not to use Arcing Slice.

There are technically two reasons why you do not want to use Arcing Slice.

1. Berserker’s Power
2. Heightened Focus

Hundred Blades with 12% extra damage and 9% crit chance for free when at full Adrenaline beats any sort of damage you’d get out of Arcing Slice. If you use Forceful Greatsword (and why wouldn’t you?) you can pull off one Hundred Blades every 6 seconds which will stack Might up the wazoo for you.

There is no way Arcing Slice could come anywhere near that.

Oglaf.1074:

Alasteir.7031:

Technically there is no reason not to use Arcing Slice.

There are technically two reasons why you do not want to use Arcing Slice.

1. Berserker’s Power
2. Heightened Focus

Hundred Blades with 12% extra damage and 9% crit chance for free when at full Adrenaline beats any sort of damage you’d get out of Arcing Slice. If you use Forceful Greatsword (and why wouldn’t you?) you can pull off one Hundred Blades every 6 seconds which will stack Might up the wazoo for you.

There is no way Arcing Slice could come anywhere near that.

Debatable. Arcing Slice can be used for full damage with one bar, and has a cooldown, thus a skilled Warrior is able to get one off without sacrificing the damage from those traits, since Hundred Blades on cooldown provides the best time to get off Arcing Slice. Something like Hundred Blades -> Arcing Slice -> Adrenaline Builder (Signet of Fury, Berserker Stance) depending on the situation, certain utilities will be too situational, allowing the use of any utility you want.

Also, getting into specifics, with high might stacks, as I said, Arcing Slice can give 7k to 8k crits in full Berserker’s given that it crits. From what I can tell, 12% of 15,000 is around 1,800 isn’t it? Normally, with Hundred Blades critting most of its hits, it lands around 15, to 17k damage total. 7k-8k (or 4k to 5k) > 1,800 extra damage from Hundred Blades empowered by the 12% damage buff and 9% crit chance increase. Allowing for a skilled Warrior to get off Arcing Slice during high might stacks to be rewarded with higher damage than a Warrior who forgoes Arcing Slice entirely regardless of might stacks, for a flat 12% damage increase.

I could be wrong, and I am trying to optimize my Warrior, so feel free to criticize thoroughly so I know where I went wrong and can make improvements, because I do not believe anything in life or in video games is easily so simplistic (this statement is debatable, from my experience, it is always more complex) thus without testing Arcing Slice under different circumstances, you cannot say that it sucks, because you lack the data to know where its damage range lies when buffed and not buffed. 12% is not a lot. It is very hard for a 6 second cooldown ability to be giving more than 2k to 2.5k extra damage from that trait, and thus if an ability can be used during cooldowns that gives greater damage, why not use it? Especially if you can find a way to still maintain it?

But this is just me. I like complexity in the professions that I play because it keeps my brain “exercised” and I get something out of it other than entertainment.

Edit: Building Momentum (50% endurance restored upon Burst skill usage) and Berserker’s Might are two traits in the Strength line that make Arcing Slice provide an even bigger return upon usage. Since survivability has importance, it gives greatsword more survivability.

Arcing Slice has the same DPS as spamming #1, and #1 debuffs. Warriors have plenty of Fury atm, its useless.

Oglaf.1074:

I mean, you*might* – MIGHT get a kill once Frenzy is off cooldown, but when it isn’t?

That’s somewhat besides the point. While a mechanic may appear balanced from the user’s perspective, it does not necessarily mean that the ability is balanced.

HB alone is balanced by the self-root, and yet look at all the complaints from people who don’t play warriors. All they ever notice is the HB+frenzy combo that wtfpwns them in two seconds, and for good reason.

A 10m cooldown ability which instantly kills one target at up to 1200 range would be no more balanced at a 15m or 20m or 60m cooldown than it is at 10m.